Introducing - The Cleveland Guardians

[DisneyJamieCA]

None of it matters... too many people with too much time on their hands and all with fragile egos.... I could care less if any team referenced my ancestral decent... Toughen up !!
All of this woke nonsense is just that nonsense.

And getting worked up by a name/mascot change is just nonsense. Talk about fragile egos. How does it change your life in the slightest?

 

[JimMIA]

While we’re all allowed our opinions, when we’re not affected personally by those mascots and team names, our opinions don’t really matter.

I disagree. I think everyone's opinions matter, even folks who couldn't care less like myself. Laws and societal norms are established by the opinions of everyone, not just those I happen to agree with.

I learned a couple of important lessons pretty young:

• I am sometimes wrong, and
• Silence, or civility, is not agreement.
  • A lot of people today think if they can shut someone up they have "won." Nothing could be farther from the truth.

But the MUCH more important point to me is not what someone calls their baseball team.

I have a problem with trivial symbolic nonsense -- not because I disagree with the decision or the intent -- but because I believe it DETRACTS from much more important issues with the same affected populations.

Anyone who thinks our Native American population's biggest problem is the names of sports teams is living in a dream world -- in my opinion...which doesn't matter.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

I disagree. I think everyone's opinions matter, even folks who couldn't care less like myself. Laws and societal norms are established by the opinions of everyone, not just those I happen to agree with.

I learned a couple of important lessons pretty young:

• I am sometimes wrong, and
• Silence, or civility, is not agreement.
  • A lot of people today think if they can shut someone up they have "won." Nothing could be farther from the truth.

But the MUCH more important point to me is not what someone calls their baseball team.

I have a problem with trivial symbolic nonsense -- not because I disagree with the decision or the intent -- but because I believe it DETRACTS from much more important issues with the same affected populations.

Anyone who thinks our Native American population's biggest problem is the names of sports teams is living in a dream world -- in my opinion...which doesn't matter.

Nobody thinks it’s the biggest issue. It is however an issue. How do the conversations about the bigger issues happen if we continue to sweep the small things under the rug. And just because it isn’t a big deal to you, doesn’t mean it isn’t to others.

When we continue to let micro aggressions go unchecked, they turn into bigger problems.

 

[JimMIA]

Nobody thinks it’s the biggest issue. It is however an issue. How do the conversations about the bigger issues happen if we continue to sweep the small things under the rug. And just because it isn’t a big deal to you, doesn’t mean it isn’t to others.

I agree that most don't think the name a billionaire calls their toy is an earth-moving issue.

But I'll turn that question around -- How do conversations about the bigger issues happen if those who care focus on nothing-burgers?

When we continue to let micro aggressions go unchecked, they turn into bigger problems.

When we focus on problems so small you need a microscope to see them, the real problems get worse.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

When we focus on problems so small you need a microscope to see them, the real problems get worse.

Disagree, but I’ll leave it at that. You and I aren’t going to see eye on eye on this.

 

[Darklord77]

Warriors name is non-racial, it means those that make war and has applied to all peoples for thousands of years.

Actually the Warriors started in Phili, and their original mascot was an American Indian. They moved to San Fran and kept the American Indian angle in their logo, changing it to a picture of a headdress.

As a Catholic, I find the original Padres logo very offensive. Being part Irish, I am appalled every time I see the Celtics logo.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

Actually the Warriors started in Phili, and their original mascot was an American Indian. They moved to San Fran and kept the American Indian angle in their logo, changing it to a picture of a headdress.

As a Catholic, I find the original Padres logo very offensive. Being part Irish, I am appalled every time I see the Celtics logo.

I can’t tell if your being factious or not. But assuming not, why is it ok for you to find those offensive, but not for Native Americans to find the poor depictions of them offensive?

 

[EACarlson]

Actually the Warriors started in Phili, and their original mascot was an American Indian. They moved to San Fran and kept the American Indian angle in their logo, changing it to a picture of a headdress.

As a Catholic, I find the original Padres logo very offensive. Being part Irish, I am appalled every time I see the Celtics logo.

Actually, the person that brought up where the Warriors are from is you.
And the Warriors have since moved forward and it's no longer their logo correct?
As a Catholic, I found the original Padres logo mildly offensive too, I'm glad they wised up and it's no longer their logo and hasn't been since 1985. Being part Irish, I don't have a problem with the Celtics logo, but I can understand those that don't like it. To me the only way it would be close to the level of offensiveness of the old Indians logo would be if the leprechaun were holding a pint of beer in each hand.

 

[EACarlson]

Personally, I don't see the use of Native American imagery as anything but complimentary. To me, that imagery is an acknowledgement of both the rich cultural and historical importance of native people.

Atlanta using "Brave" as a symbol -- to me, at least -- is nothing but admiration for Indian courage in battle. The word "Indian" is not objectionable to most Native Americans -- in fact, it is a part of many of their official tribal names.

It depends on how that imagery is used. The way that imagery was used in the former logo for the Indians was not complimentary or an acknowledgement of rich cultural and historical importance.

I don't know many people that have issues with the name "Braves," I know many, myself included that take issue with "The Chop" and the chanting. When you take a sacred religious custom and make it something to hype your fans up with 3,000 miles from where it should be sung, I have a problem with that. Now if the Braves wanted to work with one of the tribes in GA to come up with something I think that would be well received by everyone. Much like FSU has worked with the Seminole tribes in the past.

The reason that the term "Indian" is used in many official tribal names is that those were the names given to the tribes by the US Government. No tribe that I am aware of calls themselves "Indians" by choice. The official name of my tribe is Bad River Band of Lake Superior Chippewa. In our own language we call ourselves Anishinaabe.

 

[sk!mom]

I got your point. Neither does anyone else speak for the whole Blackfoot Nation or any other indigenous people.

Unless there is some recognized tribe speaking out, these self-appointed advocates have no more standing than the other poster's grandfather.

The larger point, though, is that people who care about any group of people would be much more helpful working on the real issues (in many cases crises) affecting those people.

As long as folks focus on silly symbols like baseball caps, the big issues will not be solved. Sure we can all think about more than one thing, but the reality is that people don't focus their work on more than one issue -- and it's usually the easy stuff like baseball caps.

Again, I can care about more that one issue at a time. I can applaud this decision to change a disrespectful name and also care about greater issues. Heck, I currently also hope Britney gets out of that conservatorship, worry about the Delta variant, and am actively encouraging everyone I know to get vaccinated.

Well, I don't know or care how "smart" the decision makers are, but you're right that it was their choice to make. And in these situations, "make no waves" is often more important than anything else.

If people outside the organization disagree with the decision, they have the option of not buying tickets and not watching on TV.

But in the end, this "issue" will make no difference in the lives of Native Americans. It's just a baseball cap.

Being shown respect rather than being ridiculed actually does make a difference. If you aren’t part of a community who has experienced the lack of respect, maybe you don’t realize that.

 

[Darklord77]

When we continue to let micro aggressions go unchecked, they turn into bigger problems.

Micro aggressions? I thought that term is only used on college campuses by the kids with zero life experience.

 

[Darklord77]

Actually, the person that brought up where the Warriors are from is you.
And the Warriors have since moved forward and it's no longer their logo correct?

But they still hold on to the very, very demeaning name associated with their original logo.

 

[Darklord77]

I can’t tell if your being factious or not. But assuming not, why is it ok for you to find those offensive, but not for Native Americans to find the poor depictions of them offensive?

I could care less. While I hate the Celtics, their logo is one of the best in the NBA. The Padres original logo was unique and much cooler. I honestly don't think the Catholic Church took issue with the logo either. Why don't we just lose all team nicknames and mascots? Example: Atlanta Baseball Club, Jacksonville Football Team, New York Queens Baseball Team, New York Bronx Baseball Team, etc. Much more inclusive right?

 

[EACarlson]

But they still hold on to the very, very demeaning name associated with their original logo.

How is the name "very, very demeaning?" Since the beginning of the spoken language there have been those referred to as "Warriors." My wife's college was called the Warriors, their mascot, a Roman Legionnaire. The only thing associated with it that was truly demeaning was the logo, which they no longer use and haven't for over 50 years. Contrary to many in this country, I don't blame contemporary people for what was done in the past.

 

[sam_gordon]

Am I the only one who sees a difference between using "Indians" as a team name and using a caricature as the mascot?

 

[sam_gordon]

How is the name "very, very demeaning?"

That's what I don't understand. If "Indians" is derogatory, then wouldn't "Packers", "Patriots", "Colonels", "Crimson Tide", and "Musketeers" (among others) also be derogatory? Is the word "Indians" by itself now considered a slur/insult? Why?

 

[nuclearturtle]

Nobody thinks it’s the biggest issue. It is however an issue. How do the conversations about the bigger issues happen if we continue to sweep the small things under the rug. And just because it isn’t a big deal to you, doesn’t mean it isn’t to others.

When we continue to let micro aggressions go unchecked, they turn into bigger problems.

Jamie I feel so sorry for you...... nothing but peace and love

 

[RedAngie]

That's what I don't understand. If "Indians" is derogatory, then wouldn't "Packers", "Patriots", "Colonels", "Crimson Tide", and "Musketeers" (among others) also be derogatory? Is the word "Indians" by itself now considered a slur/insult? Why?

Maybe because a certain someone now considered a persona non grata came up with the name?

 

[ford family]

Maybe because a certain someone now considered a persona non grata came up with the name?

Why is Christopher Columbus considered persona non grata?

ford family

 

[White Cat]

But they still hold on to the very, very demeaning name associated with their original logo.

I guess you wouldn’t agree with the USA women’s soccer team being called the Woke Warriors lol.