Interesting scenario with AA

[goofy4tink]

Okay....we booked our flight from Boston to LAX for Nov, late last winter/early spring. My friend booked us through Alaska Airlines, on a flight run by AA. Okay. She notices that AA has a plane with two rows missing the middle seat. Seems that with those four seats available, AA would have to put another flight attendant on board. So, they took the middle seats out of four rows, behind the wing. I think we're in row 17. So, we pay an extra $40 for seats in one of these rows. I have the window seat, the middle seat has a tray covering it, my friend has the aisle seat.
She sees that we had a time change, so goes in to confirm it. Then, they change the flight number. Okay. She looks at a seating chart, through AA. Well...it shows those middle seats as available for purchase! I looked on the Alaska site....they show the four middle seats blocked out, not available. So, she calls AA. She got a CS rep that just couldn't wrap her mind around the question...'Are those middle seats open for purchase or are they still taken out of service'. So she asks for a manager. The manager's answer to the question? "Mam, you don't have to worry. Very few people are going to book a middle seat. I'm sure that middle seat will still be open when you board' She had no idea about that middle seat being taken out of service in the four rows!!!!

So, I check Seat Guru.....the plane we're booked on does have the blocked out seats! I'm going to assume (knowing full well what happens when you do that!!!) that all will be fine. BUT.....if we board the plane and find someone sitting in that middle seat, a seat that was supposed to be empty and we paid extra for our seats based on that knowledge? Well....I can't say that my friend is going to be too happy.

Has anyone had a similar experience? Just curious.

 

[OrangeCountyCommuter]

Your friend will just get to whine. They can and will open those seats up if they think the 'profit' to sell is higher then the cost to staff. Your friend will still have the seats she paid for and AA won't feel real motivated to assist

 

[goofy4tink]

Your friend will just get to whine. They can and will open those seats up if they think the 'profit' to sell is higher then the cost to staff. Your friend will still have the seats she paid for and AA won't feel real motivated to assist

However...we paid an extra fee for those 'special' seats. An addtl $40 pp! So, no, we won't have the seats we paid for. I doubt that they are going to make enough money on 4 passengers, in middle seats, to make an addtl FA necessary.
I guess we'll see. I pity any person that ends up between us!!!

 

[bumbershoot]

This seems like a HUGE gamble on your part, that they wouldn't fix (or whatever) the seats before your flight.

 

[kar915]

This is one of two configurations of the 737-800, I take it. AA sells those two rows (16, 17) as preferred seats whether or not it has the middle seat blocked out. The plane configuration could change on day of departure. I would be definitely be torqued that the plane changed and now the middle seat is being used. It's a gamble as far as expecting those middle seats to not be used. On day of departure I would definitely talk to AA agent maybe they'll change you to main cabin extra seats if avail.

 

[goofy4tink]

This seems like a HUGE gamble on your part, that they wouldn't fix (or whatever) the seats before your flight.

The seats aren't broken. They were made that way, by AA, to avoid paying for another flight attendant.

This is one of two configurations of the 737-800, I take it. AA sells those two rows (16, 17) as preferred seats whether or not it has the middle seat blocked out. The plane configuration could change on day of departure. I would be definitely be torqued that the plane changed and now the middle seat is being used. It's a gamble as far as expecting those middle seats to not be used. On day of departure I would definitely talk to AA agent maybe they'll change you to main cabin extra seats if avail.

But, if I plug in the flight number, within Seat Guru, it shows the middle seat with affixed tray for that flight.
I may be grabbing at straws here...but we purchased seats based on that info. So, will we get to LAX in any event? Yes. But I won't ever book with Alaska Air again if its going to be an AA flight. Not to mention never booking directly with AA either.
Of course, AA most certainly doesn't care about my measly flying dollars! We shall see.

 

[kar915]

I understand, AA puts a seat map expecting that particular plane to fly that flight. However, day of it could switch to the other config. with the middle seat open to book. As long as there are two configs floating around the system you can't 100% guarantee that you will have the middle seat blocked. It sucks and leads to false expectations if the change does happen.

If economy starts at row 7 no middle seat blocked. If economy starts at row 8 middle seat will be blocked with tray table.

 

[goofy4tink]

I understand, AA puts a seat map expecting that particular plane to fly that flight. However, day of it could switch to the other config. with the middle seat open to book. As long as there are two configs floating around the system you can't 100% guarantee that you will have the middle seat blocked. It sucks and leads to false expectations if the change does happen.

If economy starts at row 7 no middle seat blocked. If economy starts at row 8 middle seat will be blocked with tray table.

Yup, it kind of will suck!! We would have booked different seats if we had known there was a chance these particular seats wouldn't actually be available. And with the two configurations out there, yep, I'm not so happy. And the airlines can't figure why the flying public gets annoyed!!!

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Yup, it kind of will suck!! We would have booked different seats if we had known there was a chance these particular seats wouldn't actually be available. And with the two configurations out there, yep, I'm not so happy. And the airlines can't figure why the flying public gets annoyed!!!

It's possible, but very unlikely, that there will be a last-minute aircraft substitution. Aircraft types are scheduled well ahead of time. The aircraft type and configuration determines how many economy, Main Cabin Extra, and first class seats can be sold. Using the wrong aircraft type not only affects that flight, but also the other flights that the aircraft will be used for afterwards. The airline causes itself grief, so they'll only make an aircraft substitution if the alternative is not being able to operate the flight.

A much more likely possibility is that there could be a schedule change if the flight is still months in the future. And that schedule change could involve a different aircraft. I had three LAX flights this year that were being operated with A321 aircraft when I bought the tickets, but then had schedule changes involving new flight numbers, new flight times, and a switch to 737-800 aircraft. I had plenty of time to make sure I was happy with my new seats.

As you have noticed, American has two 737-800 configurations. American does not fly any other 737 models. But American has other similar planes, including models of the A319, A321, and 757 (and US Airways configurations of those aircraft) used on domestic routes. All of American's new 737-800 aircraft and those older 737-800 aircraft that have been retrofitted have the new interior with four blocked middle seats. These 737-800 aircraft also have leather seats, seatback video, AC power throughout, larger bins, and other "state of the art" interior features, compared to the older 737-800 aircraft.

 

[sharona]

Is this a reward flight booked with miles? Is that why she booked on AS via AA?

My experience on AS using miles - while the flights themselves were fine the months leading up to the trip were very stressful and frustrating with them continually changing planes and bumping us out of our reserved seats. Not sure if it was because they were reward seats that made us the losers of the musical chairs each time they made a change but it seemed like every other time I checked our flights it would say confirmed but no seat assignment. I had to check constantly and keep calling in to have them assign us new seats. Each time it was a different reason for us losing our seats - new plane different configuration, those seats are reserved for unaccompanied minors (then why were we given them to begin with?), new plane again different configuration... End result was that even though we booked well in advance and chose our seats together at the front of the plane, we ended up in the last row with my mom having to sit a few rows up by herself. Not the end of the world I know but if I hadn't been on top of it and checked it often, we would have had no assigned seats at all on the day of the flight and may have been bumped because it was a full flight. Best case we all would have ended up with middle seats scattered all over the plane.

 

[bumbershoot]

The seats aren't broken. They were made that way, by AA, to avoid paying for another flight attendant.

Then why are they opening them up?

You have to understand that to someone who hasn't read the same flyertalk, or whatever, threads you've read, quite a lot of what you wrote makes very little sense.

If the seats can be opened up, as maybe they have been, then it's a huge gamble.

And I'm sad that you will take your annoyance out on the middle seat person, should there be one, as you stated "I pity any person that ends up between us!!!"


4 passengers makes the difference in a flight attendant? That's pretty odd, don't you think?

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Then why are they opening them up?

The newer 737-800 aircraft interiors have four blocked middle seats in the two rows behind the emergency exit rows. Unlike the Main Cabin Extra rows in front of the emergency exit rows, the rows with the blocked seats do not have extra legroom / kneeroom. But they have extra shoulder room because the middle seats are not really seats; nobody can sit in them.

American Airlines is not "opening them up." They remain blocked.

At the top of this thread, goofy4tink noted that Alaska Airlines apparently had misinformation about American's seats on a flight sold by Alaska and operated by American.

American operates two different interior configurations of 737-800 aircraft.

4 passengers makes the difference in a flight attendant? That's pretty odd, don't you think?

The labor contract has thresholds for flight attendants. There are also FAA rules. So the number of flight attendants on any airliner is not arbitrary. It's based on the number of seats.

 

[supersnoop]

Short version: codeshare flight shows specific airplane configuration. OP paid extra for "premium" seats. Now, the operator's site shows a different config. Regardless, the seats are still considered "premium."

Yes, the FAA sets a threshold for the passenger-to-flight attendant ratio.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Short version: codeshare flight shows specific airplane configuration. OP paid extra for "premium" seats. Now, the operator's site shows a different config. Regardless, the seats are still considered "premium."

Yes, the FAA sets a threshold for the passenger-to-flight attendant ratio.

I like this "short version" -- and I might have misread goofy4tink's post at the top of this thread.

With a phone call to American Airlines, it should be possible to determine whether the flight is now scheduled to operate with the old or new 737-800 interior configuration (SeatGuru calls these Ver. 1 and Ver. 2). If it's the new configuration with the four blocked seats, then there's no issue. If it's the old configuration or it's an aircraft other than a 737-800, then it's an issue.

goofy4tink and Friend paid for preferred seat assignments in good faith, based on the configuration at time of purchase. If that's no longer the configuration, then the airlines need to take care of the customer. It gets complicated because the ticket transaction was with Alaska, but the flight is operated br American. And it gets complicated because the two rows behind the emergency exit rows are considered preferred seats in both configurations (although only because these rows are closer to the front than the rows behind them).

The genuinely good seats in either version of the American Airlines 737-800 economy cabin are the emergency exit seats (for qualified passengers) and the Main Cabin Extra seats. Although these rows have 3 + 3 seating, they have significant extra legroom compared to most of the economy cabin. If an agent or supervisor agrees to assign such seats to goofy4tink and Friend, I would consider it good compensation for no longer having the blocked seats.

 

[Yellowjj]

The seat in those aircraft are not missing, its simply covered with a tray table to prevent it from being usable and to comply with FAA rules of 1 flight attendant per 50 seats. I believe AA will refund the extra money you paid in the event of a aircraft swap and the seats being used.

However calling before departure wont really yield much as phone agents have no control over aircraft substitutions. That's something that can only be dealt with at the gate in trying to procure a better seat or sending AA a email after the flight detailing your complaint and asking for refund on extra money paid.

 

[jec6613]

The two configurations of the 737-800 are as follows:

16F/30W/114Y: 160 total seats means 4 FAs. These are older pre-BSI 737-800's, now normally used on sub-750 mile flights with winglet performance optimized for climb/descent rather than cruise so they have lower fuel burn. They are not upgrading these to the newer 150 seat versions, but all newer aircraft are 150 seat versions and the seats and IFE are being upgraded at C-check intervals on the older 160 seat. These both have the seats behind the exit row un-blocked, and also an additional row of economy (row 7).

16F/48W/86Y: 150 total seats means 3 FAs, and a large chunk of MCE. These are newer BSI 737-800's with newer seats, and larger power generation capabilities. They have the middle seats in rows 16 and 17 blocked (there is a tray table bolted across the seat) to bring the total seats from 154 to 150, so they fly with 3 FAs instead of 4 FAs, and because of the winglet performance are normally put on longer flights (1000 mile+) flights.

Aircraft substitutions in the AA fleet between versions are exceptionally rare and usually only occur out of DFW, LGA and ORD, where there are both sufficient aircraft, and sufficient crew. Because of the different crew requirements, a re-gauge to the different version puts crew out of position unless they dead head one of the crew. However, as AA is re-doing many of its schedules as the new CEO banks the hubs, it is possible you will get a version change between now and your flight, but also expect a slight schedule change and flight number change if it occurs. Given that AS has different information than AA is providing, it is likely that this has already occurred on your flight and before you booked it was re-gauged to a version 1.

And just today a flight I had booked for January was re-gauged from a v2 to a v1 along with a timing change (which didn't work for me, so I called and re-booked it), so yes, I've seen it happen. Our JFK-MCO flight for December was also re-gauged and re-numbered about a month ago, from a v1 to a v2.

 

[goofy4tink]

I like this "short version" -- and I might have misread goofy4tink's post at the top of this thread.

With a phone call to American Airlines, it should be possible to determine whether the flight is now scheduled to operate with the old or new 737-800 interior configuration (SeatGuru calls these Ver. 1 and Ver. 2). If it's the new configuration with the four blocked seats, then there's no issue. If it's the old configuration or it's an aircraft other than a 737-800, then it's an issue.

goofy4tink and Friend paid for preferred seat assignments in good faith, based on the configuration at time of purchase. If that's no longer the configuration, then the airlines need to take care of the customer. It gets complicated because the ticket transaction was with Alaska, but the flight is operated br American. And it gets complicated because the two rows behind the emergency exit rows are considered preferred seats in both configurations (although only because these rows are closer to the front than the rows behind them).

The genuinely good seats in either version of the American Airlines 737-800 economy cabin are the emergency exit seats (for qualified passengers) and the Main Cabin Extra seats. Although these rows have 3 + 3 seating, they have significant extra legroom compared to most of the economy cabin. If an agent or supervisor agrees to assign such seats to goofy4tink and Friend, I would consider it good compensation for no longer having the blocked seats.

Yep, you've got it! I'm kind of tired of the airlines trying to have us believe that some seats are better than others. I think that a row of three seats, with the middle one blocked out, is truly a preferred seat. But I don't think it's all that preferable simply because its a little closer to the front. Once you get behind the wing, you're still going to be waiting to get off.
I guess we shall see what happens. Like I said....I'll still get to LAX.
Now to see what seats I can grab on my British Air flight to London in Nov.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Yep, you've got it!

Please let us know what American Airlines tells you.

And if they tell you your flight will not be on a 737-800 with blocked seats in the row theat you paid extra for, please let us know what you're able to work out with American Airlines and/or Alaska Airlines.

 

[goofy4tink]

I will do that. I completely understand that no seat is yours until your behind is sitting in it, but truly, if you pay for a particular seat, you really should be ablle to get that class seat, or a comparable one. So, we shall see what happens. It's all probably a tempest in a teapot, so to speak.

 

[OrangeCountyCommuter]

However...we paid an extra fee for those 'special' seats. An addtl $40 pp! So, no, we won't have the seats we paid for. I doubt that they are going to make enough money on 4 passengers, in middle seats, to make an addtl FA necessary.
I guess we'll see. I pity any person that ends up between us!!!

Yes you will have the seats you paid for. You paid for a window and aisle. You will have a window and aisle.

And that is just sad that you and your friend will plan to abuse the passenger between you. It's not their fault! What do you want them to do? Get off the plane and not use the ticket they paid for to make you happy?