Interesting-re FP new rules

[KellyNY]

Please don't start this non-argument all over again. I have said several times in this thread that it is not and the "individual level" as you put it.

I am not sure what exactly you call non-argument, considering you and others do argue balancing things out. So, why balance of a group even matter if it does not change negative affect on a individual?

As of now, system works perfectly fine and as a group everything is in balance. Yet, former late FP argue individual affect on their trip, so it is only logical to put away any statistical theories and see things from individual point of view or as I call it "individual affect".

 

[larryz]

I never understood the complaining about Fastpass enforcement times.

People will complain about anything these days, including people complaining about anything. And this is not a complaint -- it's an observation.

If you had a 9AM doctor's appointment but just bopped in around 12PM you can't expect to just be taken right away.

LOL! That's funny -- I've had 9AM doctor appointments where I wasn't seen by the doctor until 12PM.

 

[buffettgirl]

I never understood the complaining about Fastpass enforcement times. The times are there on the ticket for a reason.

If you had a 9AM doctor's appointment but just bopped in around 12PM you can't expect to just be taken right away.

At my doctors they have a system if you just need a nursing visit that actually works a lot like the FP system. You call, they give you a time - say 9am (or 10, or 11) - and then you can show up anytime after 9 but before 12 (lunch). After lunch it's the same, they'll give you a 1pm (or 2 or 3) time but you can show up any time after your scheduled time.

When you arrive they mark you down and the nurse takes you in order. Now, sometimes I might have to wait 3 people or more to see the nurse, and other times I can walk right in.

 

[larryz]

Cutting down wait times for everyone needs to be Disney's goal.

Why? Once you buy your ticket, they have your money. Whether you ride one ride or ten matters not to them.

And if you can't jump from ride to ride to ride, it makes it a darn sight more likely you're going to stop in a gift shop or food venue and spend some more money.

No, Disney's goal is to find that perfect blend of rides, waits and retail venues to wring every last dollar out of guests' vacation wallets. And if offering an enhanced guest experience for a fistful of dollars (or a few dollars more), then we'll see the good, the bad, and the ugly right until the outlaw josey wails.

Sorry, I just couldn't resist working those in.

 

[torinsmom]

The only time we ever used FPs late was after a break. We'd get a FP right before we left and use it when we got back(after getting another FP of course). I don't really think it will affect us that much. We'll just use standby for something when we get back from our break while we're waiting for our new FP time to come.

 

[doconeill]

I am not sure what exactly you call non-argument, considering you and others do argue balancing things out. So, why balance of a group even matter if it does not change negative affect on a individual?

As of now, system works perfectly fine and as a group everything is in balance. Yet, former late FP argue individual affect on their trip, so it is only logical to put away any statistical theories and see things from individual point of view or as I call it "individual affect".

This is the non-argument:

Me: I balances out overall, but individuals can be affected.

You: [quotes me] It doesn't balance at the individual level.

Me:

But what failed to be seen most of the time is that those who see them being inconvenienced late in the day likely also benefited earlier on as well by the shorter standby lines. For the most part, those who were only negatively affected were those who did not use the standby lines at all early in the day. Which is probably a fairly small number - just like the number that likely caused the effect in the first place.

It's all in the perception. People tend to see the negatives more than the positives.

But again, the argument is rendered moot now.

 

[KellyNY]

This is the non-argument:

Me: I balances out overall, but individuals can be affected.

You: [quotes me] It doesn't balance at the individual level.

Me:

But what failed to be seen most of the time is that those who see them being inconvenienced late in the day likely also benefited earlier on as well by the shorter standby lines. For the most part, those who were only negatively affected were those who did not use the standby lines at all early in the day. Which is probably a fairly small number - just like the number that likely caused the effect in the first place.

It's all in the perception. People tend to see the negatives more than the positives.

But again, the argument is rendered moot now.

Once again, what statistics has to do with any of it? and technically it is not even statistics, nobody here has any data to say how small or big this or that number. And if we will speak statistically, lets just show statistics to late FPer who complain for past few months on this board how they are affected on individual level, because nothing changed in a big picture.
You may understand difference between individual and I would say overall affect, but same theory is used by some to show no negative affect on individual, or in other words as justification for negative affect.

 

[doconeill]

Once again, what statistics has to do with any of it? and technically it is not even statistics, nobody here has any data to say how small or big this or that number. And if we will speak statistically, lets just show statistics to late FPer who complain for past few months on this board how they are affected on individual level, because nothing changed in a big picture.

Because it is ALL about statistics. Statistics is how Disney tries to maximize the customer experience and (and in-park spending) for the average guest. To do that, you have to worry less about the individual and more about the system. You can deal with individuals through separate recovery methods when necessary. But when you have a closed system (i.e., a fixed throughput on an attraction), to make it more convenience for some you have to inconvenience others. You try to balance it.

 

[ftballfan7]

Once again, what statistics has to do with any of it? and technically it is not even statistics, nobody here has any data to say how small or big this or that number. And if we will speak statistically, lets just show statistics to late FPer who complain for past few months on this board how they are affected on individual level, because nothing changed in a big picture.
You may understand difference between individual and I would say overall affect, but same theory is used by some to show no negative affect on individual, or in other words as justification for negative affect.

Reading that gave me a headache. This may be an individual affect, but I doubt it.

 

[robin19871]

We were at DHS on the 16th of April and arrived there at 1:30 and there were fast passes available for 7:30.. (TSM) At 3:30, there were still FP's available still available for before park close..

 

[atksn]

Forgive me in advance:
I am pretty much a lurker (occasionally a poster), and really only spend time here when in the midst of planning an upcoming trip to WDW.

I will honestly say I have only skimmed the first couple of pages of this. Am I correct in that what I am gathering from this thread is that they are enforcing FP return times now? That if you show up later than the return time, the FP is essentially no good?

I don't want to read/get involved in a debate, just get the jist of what is going on so I know the facts for our upcoming trips. Thanks!

 

[MouseEarsForAll]

Forgive me in advance:
I am pretty much a lurker (occasionally a poster), and really only spend time here when in the midst of planning an upcoming trip to WDW.

I will honestly say I have only skimmed the first couple of pages of this. Am I correct in that what I am gathering from this thread is that they are enforcing FP return times now? That if you show up later than the return time, the FP is essentially no good?

I don't want to read/get involved in a debate, just get the jist of what is going on so I know the facts for our upcoming trips. Thanks!

No debate answer: Yes, they are enforcing the time windows now. They--the FastPasses--include a 15 minute grace period, but that's it.

 

[atksn]

No debate answer: Yes, they are enforcing the time windows now. They--the FastPasses--include a 15 minute grace period, but that's it.

Thanks much!

 

[danceintherain]

If you wanted to go higher tech, you'd need to know how many people are in the queue and track their speed through it at a finer grain that entrance/exit. Queue conspiracy theorists about Disney tracking your every movement...

LOL...the easiest way would be to add a tracking chip into each ticket and triangulate the location of every ticket at every moment. Of course, this would get very confused when Mom who is carrying 10 other people's tickets decided to ride It's a Small World by herself.
I've heard rumors of wristbands though?

I tend to disagree with the fact that the enforcement had ANYTHING to do with crowd control.

I'm not saying this is THE reason, but I'm saying that I believe that the reason will always point to money.

Fast Pass has ALWAYS been all about the money. It was initiated in order to reduce time waiting in line so more time was spent waiting elsewhere. They don't want people waiting in lines either, but it's surprising how many people go to Disney not aware of the fact that Fast Pass is available to them.
Disney also doesn't want people arriving at Rope Drop, grabbing as many FPs as possible while riding rides, then leaving the park to eat an off property lunch and coming back to again spend all their in-park time riding rides.

I've hardly ever used a FP outside the listed time. I've considered it, but pretty much every time I'm faced with the possibility I tend to stay at my hotel. It doesn't surprise me that FP use seems to have gone down for this reason. I'm not going to get that 2pm FP anymore now that I know that I without a doubt won't be able to use it if I return to the park at 4 (unless of course I want it as a momento)
In my case, Disney still makes money, because I much prefer being a Disney hostage, so when I leave the parks it is to go back to a Disney owned hotel and pretty much all my food budget goes into Disney's pocket.

 

[KellyNY]

Because it is ALL about statistics. Statistics is how Disney tries to maximize the customer experience and (and in-park spending) for the average guest. To do that, you have to worry less about the individual and more about the system. You can deal with individuals through separate recovery methods when necessary. But when you have a closed system (i.e., a fixed throughput on an attraction), to make it more convenience for some you have to inconvenience others. You try to balance it.

Well it is my turn to do this ->
This speach should be addressed to every late FPer who continue to cry over their, ruined, individual experience, not me, don't you think.
Yes it is all about money, and I do not say in a negative way like some people do and since we agree on it, you should have no problem to see that old FP system did not serve well. I highly doubt that anyone in Disney was ever happy with the fact that people come to Disney in a morning to run from ride to ride, collect FPs and leave fr a break. They did not use free time to spend money, they used it to swim, nap and some to even eat off site, what a dream for Disney. So, if we talk effectiveness of the system, enforcement suppose to do just that.
Also for the bolded part, thank you for saying what I was saying all along, while it all evens up, convenience of late FPer was at someones else expense.

 

[MouseEarsForAll]

Sure!

 

[buffettgirl]

Fast Pass has ALWAYS been all about the money. It was initiated in order to reduce time waiting in line so more time was spent waiting elsewhere. They don't want people waiting in lines either, but it's surprising how many people go to Disney not aware of the fact that Fast Pass is available to them.
Disney also doesn't want people arriving at Rope Drop, grabbing as many FPs as possible while riding rides, then leaving the park to eat an off property lunch and coming back to again spend all their in-park time riding rides.

I've hardly ever used a FP outside the listed time. I've considered it, but pretty much every time I'm faced with the possibility I tend to stay at my hotel. It doesn't surprise me that FP use seems to have gone down for this reason. I'm not going to get that 2pm FP anymore now that I know that I without a doubt won't be able to use it if I return to the park at 4 (unless of course I want it as a momento)
In my case, Disney still makes money, because I much prefer being a Disney hostage, so when I leave the parks it is to go back to a Disney owned hotel and pretty much all my food budget goes into Disney's pocket.

I do agree with this. I also think the whole system of lines and fp is a very carefully crafted system - if you have no lines and people continuously went on ride after ride after ride with no break, what would happen? They'd never kill time looking in the gift shop spending $$. Again, it has nothing to do with crowd control in the sense that Disney wants us all to have shorter waits. But it has everything to do with what we do before and after those waits - what happens when we wait 10 min vs 60 min, where do we go, what do we look at, where do we spend our money.

Why do you think many of the rides have a default time period sign that will show 10 or 20 min waits even when we all know that often you can walk right on? Why not show the actual wait? It all has to do with how we process that wait time and what we do with that info. Too long a wait and people feel rushed, feel they've wasted their money already on rides they can't do, and have no time to spend shopping or eating. Too short a wait and people go from ride to ride without stopping and don't have the future visit wish list tucked in their heads because they've already done it all. Disney wants the perfect combination of everything.

They want us all to come back. And spend our money again and again and again. And you all, like me, are happy to do it. I'm not trying to be cynical, it's just as old as time: leave them wanting more.

 

[White_Sox_Fan]

At least now with the roll-out of Fastpass+ testing the next two weeks we can settle the discussion on the reason for enforcement, right?

 

[ftballfan7]

At least now with the roll-out of Fastpass+ testing the next two weeks we can settle the discussion on the reason for enforcement, right?

One would think, but probably not.

 

[Dr.Girlfriend]

I never understood the complaining about Fastpass enforcement times. The times are there on the ticket for a reason.

If you had a 9AM doctor's appointment but just bopped in around 12PM you can't expect to just be taken right away.

This is great news for us locals. We got to MK at 5 on Saturday and there were fast passes available for Space Mountain - for fairly early in the evening, too. Very, very pleased with this.