Interesting Info in August Vacation Magic email

[Dis13]

We couldn't get a ressie for October 8-12 -- finally got our points, was late booking; however, if I go to Ebay, I could rent it. Even states - THIS VILLA IS SOLD OUT .... I feel this really puts a damper on being a member. A member can't get in, but others can simply rent what you've paid top dollar for. These can't possibly be "leftover points." Ressies were made far in advance for these dates. Boo commercial renters.....

I have additional days and
I also have other dates available
in July, Aug, Sept, Oct, Nov & Dec. including;

a Studio 8/10 -10/13 at the BC,
a Studio 8/13-10/18 at the BC,
a Studio 9/29-10/3 at the BC,
2 Studios 10/7-10/14 at the BW,
a Studio 10/18-10/24 at the BC,
a Studio 10/20 or 10/22 - 10/27 BC,
a Studio 10/28 or 10/29 - 11/3 or 4 or 5 at the BC,
2 Preferred View Studios 10/28 or 10/29 - 11/3 or 4 at the BW,
a 2-BR 10/28 or 10/29 - 11/3 or 4 or 5 at OKW,
a Studio 10/30-11/3 at the BC with 10/29 wait-listed,
a Studio 11/17 or 18 or 19 -11/24 or 25 at the BC,
a Boardwalk View Studio 11/19-11/23 at the BW,
a Studio Christmas Week 12/24-12/29 & 12/29-12/31 at the BW & BC,
a 2-BR Christmas Week 12/24-12/29 at the BW!

I may have;
a Studio 8/13-8/18 at the BC,
a Studio 8/27-9/1 at the BC!

 

[icydog]

When I bought into DVC 15 years ago I was invited to rent my points out anyway I wished. I don't rent on ebay but I do rent my points out.I don't reserve weeks in hopes of getting someone to rent it but I will get a week for someone when given the guidelines for dates and unit size. I have a lot of DVC points and with my family grown up and gone from home what am I suppose to do with my points. Should I sell them for a loss? Who's in charge of my pocketbook anyway? I think it is a sorry time when we are dictated to by Disney or any big company as to how we can use our property. I was allowed to rent my points in the past and I am hard pressed to understand why I am not allowed to do so now. I think DVC property management is not so altruistic in their presentation in the member newsletter. I think they have seen a decrease in their own point rental business and therefore they are now informing us they are changing their policies.
Even their own newsletter explanation is duplicitous. They say the points are available to "our lessees" and in the last paragraph they deny that very fact by saying if we are renting to leeses for profit we are out of line. I wonder what exactly they are saying? For now, I turned down a very good contract at the Timeshare Store, offered by Tom Yeary and Jerry, simply because of this email. I am afraid that Disney will enforce something that was never really spelled out when I bought my points many years ago. I only have two contracts but I do have a load of points that will be wasted if this bogus policy is enforced.

 

[JimMIA]

I doubt it. If your points go to waste, then Disney gets the benefit of the full value. It's called "breakage"...and there's actually a line item in the documents where they estimate annual breakage revenue.

I asked a question about this yesterday, and the explanation is (if I understand correctly) this is DVC breakage revenue...not an expense -- the opposite of an expense.

Any DVC points inventory which is unreserved 60 days out is considered "breakage," and is made available to Disney CRO. CRO rents the inventory and the revenue from those rentals comes back to DVC.

In other words, points that individual owners do not use, if rented by Disney CRO, end up offsetting costs and thereby lowering dues for all owners of that resort.

Is that close, Doc?

 

[missymouse]

When I bought into DVC 15 years ago I was invited to rent my points out anyway I wished. I don't rent on ebay but I do rent my points out.I don't reserve weeks in hopes of getting someone to rent it but I will get a week for someone when given the guidelines for dates and unit size. I have a lot of DVC points and with my family grown up and gone from home what am I suppose to do with my points. Should I sell them for a loss? Who's in charge of my pocketbook anyway? I think it is a sorry time when we are dictated to by Disney or any big company as to how we can use our property. I was allowed to rent my points in the past and I am hard pressed to understand why I am not allowed to do so now. I think DVC property management is not so altruistic in their presentation in the member newsletter. I think they have seen a decrease in their own point rental business and therefore they are now informing us they are changing their policies.
Even their own newsletter explanation is duplicitous. They say the points are available to "our lessees" and in the last paragraph they deny that very fact by saying if we are renting to leeses for profit we are out of line. I wonder what exactly they are saying? For now, I turned down a very good contract at the Timeshare Store, offered by Tom Yeary and Jerry, simply because of this email. I am afraid that Disney will enforce something that was never really spelled out when I bought my points many years ago. I only have two contracts but I do have a load of points that will be wasted if this bogus policy is enforced.

I don't think anyone is saying you can't rent out points. I think they are trying to curb the abuse that has seemingly been running rampant. I agree there is something wrong when someone on e-bay has available reservations for every major peak time at almost every resort up for bid to the highest bidder when members of those same resorts can't get reservations for the same time.

Is this the best way to do it? Maybe not.
Will it effect the average owner ? I don't think it will to a major extent
Will it effect owners who have say 1000 points/year and rents out all of them? Maybe but I figure they will figure out a way around it.

I think we can all hash this out ad nauseum and just get more people riled up or we can just sit back and see how the dust settles.

It is like everything. The pendulum may have swung from feast for the "power renters" to famine, and eventually the pendulum will settle in the middle. I have seen this many times across many businesses and situations.

The most notable was the rehab companies abusing medicare about 8 years ago. Unfortunately in that situation in addition to the rehab companies getting hurt alot of people who really needed the services didn't get the same quality of care that they should have.

 

[JCW]

My concern is around the transferring of points. What I remember reading in the POS was that you could transfer IN or OUT (only one way) within your UY, but the number of times IN or OUT was not limited. But the newsletter states only one time per year (maybe I misunderstood the original POS ).

This hurts the people like me, who calculated their number of points, looked at our vacation habits, and recognized that no matter what, it is likely we will have a few points left over, that we won't use (about 5-20, depending on time of year and room type). I figured, that's ok, I can try to transfer them to another DVC owner and points will not go wasted.

But now, if I can only transfer out once, and owners can only receive in once, then this would be a problem. Say someone needs 10 points. I have 5 and another owner has 5. The receiving owner will not be able to accept these transfers and have to go to someone that has the 10 points they need. Then, in turn, if someone has 50 points, they might not be willing to let go of the 10 points, knowing they can't transfer the other 40. It will just make it more difficult for the occasional renter/owner.

I understand the issue with those doing this as a business, and I think it is completely wrong (especially when they are booking the peak weeks), but this really hurts the honest person who is just trying not to let points go to waste.

 

[greenban]

So here's the Million dollar question?

Once you start "negoiating" with a member you probably know their name. Would you turn them in???

(I don't know what I would do, I don't intend to find out as I don't rent either way. This is more "theoretical". I do know I would be tempted)

(407) RAT-4DVC

That is the new # to report suspicious patterns.

Press 3 for MS/DVC
Press 2 for Homeland Security
Press 1 for a DVC Sales-Guide!

-Tony

 

[dianeschlicht]

(407) RAT-4DVC

That is the new # to report suspicious patterns.

Press 3 for MS/DVC
Press 2 for Homeland Security
Press 1 for a DVC Sales-Guide!

-Tony

 

[RobDoc]

When I bought into DVC 15 years ago I was invited to rent my points out anyway I wished. ... I have a lot of DVC points and with my family grown up and gone from home what am I suppose to do with my points. Should I sell them for a loss?

If you purchased 15 years ago, you would certainly NOT take a loss if you sold today!

Who's in charge of my pocketbook anyway? I think it is a sorry time when we are dictated to by Disney or any big company as to how we can use our property. I was allowed to rent my points in the past and I am hard pressed to understand why I am not allowed to do so now.

Where have you gotten the idea that you are not allowed to rent? Yesterday's email did NOT state that and the ability to rent has not changed at all. Have you called MS to ask if you're allowed to rent and been told you are not or has your information come from some other source?

I think they have seen a decrease in their own point rental business and therefore they are now informing us they are changing their policies.

What point rental business does DVC have? The points they rent have been used by MEMBERS to pay for non-DVC options. If DVC is unable to rent those points, they will either have to increase the cost to members to "purchase" those other options or discontinue them altogether. Other than points used by members, DVC has no "business" of renting. At 60 days, unreserved villas are also provided to CRO for rental, but the proceeds from that is given to the DVC budget to offset our dues - it shows up in the budget as "Breakage Income".

...Even their own newsletter explanation is duplicitous. They say the points are available to "our lessees" and in the last paragraph they deny that very fact by saying if we are renting to leeses for profit we are out of line. I wonder what exactly they are saying? For now, I turned down a very good contract at the Timeshare Store, offered by Tom Yeary and Jerry, simply because of this email. I am afraid that Disney will enforce something that was never really spelled out when I bought my points many years ago. I only have two contracts but I do have a load of points that will be wasted if this bogus policy is enforced.

Unless they find you are a commercial renter (not likely from the description provided above), there is no change in any policy. The letter yesterday said nothing contrary to what was spelled out in your documents from 15 years ago- it actually comes pretty close to simply restating things spelled out in that POS.This is not a bogus policy at all- it is clearly stated in your POS and every one up thru about 2003. The 2003 and later POS left more ambiguity (changes from your original POS) and the letter just serves to clarify the issue and return things closer to when you purchased.

Nothing has changed.

 

[T.E. Yeary]

icydog- Say it isn't so!


Tom

 

[LisaS]

Unless they find you are a commercial renter (not likely from the description provided above), there is no change in any policy.

I agree with Doc. I imagine when DVC initially decided that renting would be allowed, they had in mind members renting points to a relative, friend, co-worker, etc. It was good for Disney (an enthusiastic DVC member bringing in a new prospect through renting), and good for the owner (gets cash for points that would otherwise go unused). I'm sure they never envisioned allowing a member to become an online DVC travel agent, renting hundreds of points to total strangers looking to save money over staying at a value resort and worse, skewing point allocations by morphing cheap distressed points into BCV points for Food & Wine season and the month of December. If we see fewer prime weeks for sale on eBay and more availability for owners, that's a good thing.

 

[JimMIA]

(407) RAT-4DVC

That is the new # to report suspicious patterns.

Press 3 for MS/DVC
Press 2 for Homeland Security
Press 1 for a DVC Sales-Guide!

-Tony

WOW! You'd think they'd make it an 800 number

 

[mouseclick1]

We couldn't get a ressie for October 8-12 -- finally got our points, was late booking; however, if I go to Ebay, I could rent it. Even states - THIS VILLA IS SOLD OUT .... I feel this really puts a damper on being a member. A member can't get in, but others can simply rent what you've paid top dollar for. These can't possibly be "leftover points." Ressies were made far in advance for these dates. Boo commercial renters.....

I have additional days and
I also have other dates available
in July, Aug, Sept, Oct, Nov & Dec. including;

a Studio 8/10 -10/13 at the BC,
a Studio 8/13-10/18 at the BC,
a Studio 9/29-10/3 at the BC,
2 Studios 10/7-10/14 at the BW,
a Studio 10/18-10/24 at the BC,
a Studio 10/20 or 10/22 - 10/27 BC,
a Studio 10/28 or 10/29 - 11/3 or 4 or 5 at the BC,
2 Preferred View Studios 10/28 or 10/29 - 11/3 or 4 at the BW,
a 2-BR 10/28 or 10/29 - 11/3 or 4 or 5 at OKW,
a Studio 10/30-11/3 at the BC with 10/29 wait-listed,
a Studio 11/17 or 18 or 19 -11/24 or 25 at the BC,
a Boardwalk View Studio 11/19-11/23 at the BW,
a Studio Christmas Week 12/24-12/29 & 12/29-12/31 at the BW & BC,
a 2-BR Christmas Week 12/24-12/29 at the BW!

I may have;
a Studio 8/13-8/18 at the BC,
a Studio 8/27-9/1 at the BC!

I actually thought you were exaggerating to make a point, but I just came across this actual auction on ebay. I really hope that Disney will do something about these renters, and that it is not just a lot of talk.

 

[greenban]

WOW! You'd think they'd make it an 800 number

I heard it was made toll, to prevent a certain lovable amphibian from calling to chat all day long.

But I hear 'RATS' (Reporters Against Timeshare Shysters) get the following rewards:

First reported abuser, 10% of points confiscated/ressies cancelled
Second "" "" "" 15%
Third "" "" "" 18%
Fourth "" "" "" 20%
Fifth (In same Calendar Year!) 25%.

I also heard you can take the rewards as credits against maintenance fees or as Disney Dollars!

-Tony

 

[icydog]

I'm sure they never envisioned allowing a member to become an online DVC travel agent, renting hundreds of points to total strangers looking to save money over staying at a value resort and worse, skewing point allocations by morphing cheap distressed points into BCV points for Food & Wine season and the month of December.

Lisa, am I missing something. What is a morphed point? A mutant point that grows into a BCV point from a sprouting SSR point??

 

[RobDoc]

Lisa, am I missing something. What is a morphed point? A mutant point that grows into a BCV point from a sprouting SSR point??

A morphed point is an expiring August Use Year point from VB (or HH or OKW or BWV or SSR) that is transferred to the owner of a 50 point BCV add-on with a March Use Year ... and then, due to DVC's inability/unwillingness to track it's origin, it becomes a BCV point with a March Use Year that can be banked and then used to make a reservation 11 months ahead for next year's F&W, Thanksgiving, early December or New Years Eve at BCV.

 

[Sammie]

When I bought into DVC 15 years ago I was invited to rent my points out anyway I wished. I don't rent on ebay but I do rent my points out.I don't reserve weeks in hopes of getting someone to rent it but I will get a week for someone when given the guidelines for dates and unit size. I have a lot of DVC points and with my family grown up and gone from home what am I suppose to do with my points. Should I sell them for a loss? Who's in charge of my pocketbook anyway? I think it is a sorry time when we are dictated to by Disney or any big company as to how we can use our property. I was allowed to rent my points in the past and I am hard pressed to understand why I am not allowed to do so now. I think DVC property management is not so altruistic in their presentation in the member newsletter. I think they have seen a decrease in their own point rental business and therefore they are now informing us they are changing their policies.
Even their own newsletter explanation is duplicitous. They say the points are available to "our lessees" and in the last paragraph they deny that very fact by saying if we are renting to leeses for profit we are out of line. I wonder what exactly they are saying? For now, I turned down a very good contract at the Timeshare Store, offered by Tom Yeary and Jerry, simply because of this email. I am afraid that Disney will enforce something that was never really spelled out when I bought my points many years ago. I only have two contracts but I do have a load of points that will be wasted if this bogus policy is enforced.

If your family is grown up and you have all those extra points why would you be buying more?

 

[Lasrnw]

I just sold my 160 pts at SSR for the same reason....it is just easier for us to rent the points when we want to go rather than deal with the MS phone lines, maintenance fees.....I only bought for the accomodations and if I can get them without the hassle -works for me!

 

[4mcbjCtr]

The people that do the mass amounts of renting of points on ebay - are they transferring points in from other DVC members that they purchased for cheap? I was so unaware of the abuse taking place. My jaw is still on the floor after looking at the auctions on ebay. There are a couple of them that are clear cases of abuse. I will be happy to see that come to an end.

 

[4mcbjCtr]

Whoa! Someone on Ebay is renting points out for over $22 a point.

 

[FinallyBoughtDVC]

So here's the Million dollar question?

Once you start "negoiating" with a member you probably know their name. Would you turn them in???

(I don't know what I would do, I don't intend to find out as I don't rent either way. This is more "theoretical". I do know I would be tempted)

I didn't get to the name part - just the dollar part - had to go away and that was it.

Would I turn him in - I don't know if he was someone who innocently made a reservation and couldn't go and decided to rent it out rather than cancel - I'd like to give people the benefit of the doubt.

In the end - I had decided over the weekend not to rent from him - paying that kind of money (after buying 510 points) was ridiculous when I could just book directly through Disney and get the my "disney points" on my disney visa.

So - wow, I guess I never really answered your question - If I out and out knew someone was abusing the system, I would absolutely report them. If I wasn't sure, I'd let it go.

Not much of an answer, but I think this is really more of a "you have to be going through it to know for sure" question.