interesting article.

I don't think that anyone is saying it is generally impossible; just that there are a lot of variables in how successful one can be in "pulling oneself up" through sheer hard work.

What isn't reality is believing that what worked for you will work for everyone.

You know, when I was a young woman just out of school, I did believe that it was just that simple. I grew up pretty hardscrabble, though because we were in the country in a warm climate and we hunted, fished, and grew veggies, hunger was one want we didn't have to worry about. My dad worked at a skilled trade, and my mother stayed home with we kids. (That wasn't as devoted as it might seem; when you live in the sticks and have proved yourself incapable of learning to drive, your options are limited. Mom quite frankly stank at dealing with children, but since she could not drive and there was no public transportation, getting a job while we were in school was not an option. She took on sewing projects at home, but that was the best she could do.)

My father died when I was 12, and our standard of living immediately fell to about half of what it was before. We lived on a survivor's pension. I worked hard in a crappy impoverished school district, diligently studied how to win at the scholarship game, and got myself through college. I did it, and l was pretty darned insufferable about how if I could do it, so could anyone else. Fast forward about 6 years: in a new job, I was assigned to learn a process that involved some pretty complicated math, and no matter how hard I tried, I could not learn to do it without making mistakes that had to be corrected. I just could not get it down solid. My trainer lost her temper and said, "How can you not get this? It's easy stuff." And then it hit me: she could do it, and therefore I must be lazy if I could not do it, too. But I wasn't lazy; I was working my butt off, and my brain just would not cooperate. That's when I started to look with new eyes at the people I had left behind in the world that I grew up in. The truth is this: much as we may wish it otherwise, hard work alone is not the key to "rising above your raisin'"; you have to have a certain measure of luck to go along with it. Hit the bad luck jackpot and your hard work won't count for nearly as much as it otherwise might have. I worked danged hard, yes, but I also got lucky in a lot of ways. I had some teachers who encouraged me, I had enough intelligence and patience to do well in school, and I was reasonably attractive, which undoubtedly made the difference sometimes when I was bluffing my way through a job interview. Here's another one: when my father was dying of lung cancer, even though it was occupational, he made me promise never to smoke. (Poor Daddy. He gave me a leg up (and saved me a fortune) with that one.)

There is a book that I like a lot, called Heartland, by Sarah Smarsh. She's a journalist; a graduate of the University of Kansas J School. Before that, she grew up on a farm, and she comes from a long line of impoverished women. Early in the book, she makes this comment:
I also used to believe like you did when I was younger too. And then I became a social worker. I became one mostly to work in mental health. But the things I have seen & learned along the way have significantly changed my opinions of so many things.
 
I have farmers, plumbers, air conditioning repairmen and others in my family. Hardest working people you ever saw. But none of them ever got rich.

We lived ok. But never felt like we were well off.

My dad was valedictorian of his farm town high school class of 17, accepted to his state law school, but was drafted to Vietnam. Completely changed his life as he met my mom, moved 1500 miles away and became a plumber/ac mechanic. Hardest working person I've known. Dropped dead at work on a Saturday 3 weeks after Hurricane Elena at age 38 of a massive heart attack. Left 4 kids oldest me at age 16.

Not always easy to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and not just your own choices.

Life is what happens while we make other plans
 
I never met anyone working for Disney that was there against their will. No one is being forced to work there.
If people are not happy with the wages they are being paid they need to get an education/training in a field of work that pays better.
If the cast members want to make more money then they should take advantage of Disney's willingness to pay for college. Of the 60,000 plus cast members working for Disney the story mentions only 8000 have taken advantage of it.
I read the story and one of the things I got out of it was they "THE UNIONS"are getting ready to start arguing that the cast members now need $20.00 an hour.
Some of the fall out of the $15.00 dollar minimum pay, Disney now hires more part time cast members and uses college program students to save on labor cost. The do not have to pay for benefits.
What people sometimes forget is when wages increase so does the cost of living. It cost more to employee people so business increase the fees they charge for good and services.

Housing cost in central Florida have been going up because of all the people moving from other parts of the country. They sell their home for a big profit and move to Florida. Builders are taking advantage of this and they stopped building affordable homes to build more expensive homes.
I feel bad for anyone who is in the situation the lady in the story is in. However not every cast member is in this situation.
For example
There are two Disney cast members that live across the street from me. They both work in custodial / housekeeping. They live in a 3 bedroom home and both drive new cars.
The one thing people have to understand is that there are a lot of cast members that work for Disney that make a lot more than $15.00 dollars an hour. I know several of them.
 

I also used to believe like you did when I was younger too. And then I became a social worker. I became one mostly to work in mental health. But the things I have seen & learned along the way have significantly changed my opinions of so many things.

It's funny how exposure to a different slice of life teaches us how much we don't know about what we don't have the faintest clue we don't know. Before this job I was unaware of just how many ways mental illness is devastating families and our society in general. It can have incredibly far reaching effects that are compounded by scarce resources and the fact that by its very nature it often tends to create roadblocks and barriers to improvement.
 
I never met anyone working for Disney that was there against their will. No one is being forced to work there.
If people are not happy with the wages they are being paid they need to get an education/training in a field of work that pays better.
If the cast members want to make more money then they should take advantage of Disney's willingness to pay for college. Of the 60,000 plus cast members working for Disney the story mentions only 8000 have taken advantage of it.
I read the story and one of the things I got out of it was they "THE UNIONS"are getting ready to start arguing that the cast members now need $20.00 an hour.
Some of the fall out of the $15.00 dollar minimum pay, Disney now hires more part time cast members and uses college program students to save on labor cost. The do not have to pay for benefits.
What people sometimes forget is when wages increase so does the cost of living. It cost more to employee people so business increase the fees they charge for good and services.

Housing cost in central Florida have been going up because of all the people moving from other parts of the country. They sell their home for a big profit and move to Florida. Builders are taking advantage of this and they stopped building affordable homes to build more expensive homes.
I feel bad for anyone who is in the situation the lady in the story is in. However not every cast member is in this situation.
For example
There are two Disney cast members that live across the street from me. They both work in custodial / housekeeping. They live in a 3 bedroom home and both drive new cars.
The one thing people have to understand is that there are a lot of cast members that work for Disney that make a lot more than $15.00 dollars an hour. I know several of them.

This issue is far bigger than a single WDW employee, or even WDW employees in general. The issue is systemic of our economy becoming primarily based on service industry jobs and a gig economy. More and more of the middle class is sliding down the ladder rung by rung as more and more of the traditionally middle class fields either fall victim to automation, off shoring or simply go the way of the dodo. Plenty seek to make the climb by following the beacon of education to greater opportunities. This has caused the cost of education to ramp up drastically which increases the stretch for many to make the climb, leaving many out on tremulously thin branches supported by significant debt. Plenty of them graduate, get employment and settle in and establish themselves -- and subsequently find the floor dropping away seven, eight years down the road when their industry suddenly contracts because growth has slowed and the only way to continue to sustain sufficient tribute to the Wall Street titans is cut the worker bees, whose efforts are seen as drain to revenue. Those displaced are suddenly scrambling to hold together daily living expenses -- and probably maintain student debt repayment as well. Those who "survived" the cuts are likely to find themselves shouldering the workload of two or more, while finding income levels flat, health insurance costs increasingly shuffled onto their backs and day to day COL continuing to rise. The frustration and stress of both the displaced and the survivors causes an uptick in emotional issues, domestic trouble and substance abuse. It's a vicious cycle. It impacts all of society -- even those who consider themselves immune, bulletproof and above it all.
 
This issue is far bigger than a single WDW employee, or even WDW employees in general. The issue is systemic of our economy becoming primarily based on service industry jobs and a gig economy. More and more of the middle class is sliding down the ladder rung by rung as more and more of the traditionally middle class fields either fall victim to automation, off shoring or simply go the way of the dodo. Plenty seek to make the climb by following the beacon of education to greater opportunities. This has caused the cost of education to ramp up drastically which increases the stretch for many to make the climb, leaving many out on tremulously thin branches supported by significant debt. Plenty of them graduate, get employment and settle in and establish themselves -- and subsequently find the floor dropping away seven, eight years down the road when their industry suddenly contracts because growth has slowed and the only way to continue to sustain sufficient tribute to the Wall Street titans is cut the worker bees, whose efforts are seen as drain to revenue. Those displaced are suddenly scrambling to hold together daily living expenses -- and probably maintain student debt repayment as well. Those who "survived" the cuts are likely to find themselves shouldering the workload of two or more, while finding income levels flat, health insurance costs increasingly shuffled onto their backs and day to day COL continuing to rise. The frustration and stress of both the displaced and the survivors causes an uptick in emotional issues, domestic trouble and substance abuse. It's a vicious cycle. It impacts all of society -- even those who consider themselves immune, bulletproof and above it all.

So, you are saying its more nuanced than just "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" or "work harder"?

I completely agree with all points.
 
/
I think for the majority it is a case of "pull yourself up by your bootstraps". Are there circumstances where that isn't possible? YES. But that is the exception, not the rule.
 
I think for the majority it is a case of "pull yourself up by your bootstraps". Are there circumstances where that isn't possible? YES. But that is the exception, not the rule.

IMO that may hold true if the individual in question is the stereotypical slacker millennial of the stolidly middle class(upper middle) family who's crushing it on Fortnite from the coddled confines of mumsy and popsicle's basement. Of course that may not hold true for even such a privileged individual if the slacker behavior is in fact the manifestation of psychological issues. Even a stolidly upper middle class rung on the ladder may not be enough to provide and sustain adequate treatment to offer up adequate course correction for many of those.

Plenty of "good" families discover those truths only when they fall into those depths. Often they do what they can to cover up the issue from the eyes of neighbors, family and good friends when they recognize the stigma and realize that understanding is unlikely but judgment will be plentiful.
 
IMO that may hold true if the individual in question is the stereotypical slacker millennial of the stolidly middle class(upper middle) family who's crushing it on Fortnite from the coddled confines of mumsy and popsicle's basement. Of course that may not hold true for even such a privileged individual if the slacker behavior is in fact the manifestation of psychological issues. Even a stolidly upper middle class rung on the ladder may not be enough to provide and sustain adequate treatment to offer up adequate course correction for many of those.

Plenty of "good" families discover those truths only when they fall into those depths. Often they do what they can to cover up the issue from the eyes of neighbors, family and good friends when they recognize the stigma and realize that understanding is unlikely but judgment will be plentiful.
Huh?
 
The article states that the woman highlighted in the article is presently on leave from Disney to work for the union. I am wondering how much the union is paying her. Hopefully more than she was making at Disney or else that would be hypocritical of them! I also wonder what she is doing for the union. Is her “job” to be the face of this issue?
 
One thing that struck me in the article is how difficult it would be to live in NYC or even 30+ miles away from it making $15.00 per hour.

There is nothing magical about $15/hr. It’s just a number that executives have latched onto to keep it creeping higher.
 
You are telling me that more than 50% of people have circumstances that don't allow them to improve their situations? I find that hard to believe.
 
You are telling me that more than 50% of people have circumstances that don't allow them to improve their situations? I find that hard to believe.
For those who grow up in poverty, yes, way more than 50% will encounter circumstances that will keep them from improving their situation.

ETA: I currently work in an urban school district. For most of these kids, it is a very grim outlook.
 
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For those who grow up in poverty, yes, way more than 50% will encounter circumstances that will keep them from improving their situation.

ETA: I currently work in an urban school district. For most of these kids, it is a very grim outlook.

For anyone who doubts this, just look at the statistics. Only 30% of people born into poverty will make it to the middle class. Only 4 % of people born into poverty will make it to upper middle class (the top 20% of wage earners).

So if hard work is all it takes, why would only 4% of people born into poverty be able to crack the top 20%?!

If its just hard work, why do 70% of people fail to get out? Do you think 70% of people born into poverty are lazy?
 
For anyone who doubts this, just look at the statistics. Only 30% of people born into poverty will make it to the middle class. Only 4 % of people born into poverty will make it to upper middle class (the top 20% of wage earners).

So if hard work is all it takes, why would only 4% of people born into poverty be able to crack the top 20%?!

If its just hard work, why do 70% of people fail to get out? Do you think 70% of people born into poverty are lazy?

I will try to answer this. I absolutely don't think 70% of people born into poverty are lazy. But I do feel that they sometimes make decisions (such as having children young, not having supportive partners, not always valuing the education they do receive) that do not help the situation. Many times these decisions perpetuate the situation they were born into. I am sure what I am trying to say will be misunderstood. For the record, I am divorced and realize that people do not plan to marry and get divorced.

Study after study shows that not graduating high school, having kids very young, etc. do not set one up for financial success.
 
I will try to answer this. I absolutely don't think 70% of people born into poverty are lazy. But I do feel that they sometimes make decisions (such as having children young, not having supportive partners, not always valuing the education they do receive) that do not help the situation. Many times these decisions perpetuate the situation they were born into. I am sure what I am trying to say will be misunderstood. For the record, I am divorced and realize that people do not plan to marry and get divorced.

Study after study shows that not graduating high school, having kids very young, etc. do not set one up for financial success.

Yes, those things are all hindrances to financial success. That's why I stated earlier that our system is very punitive to those who have had missteps. Those born into poverty most likely weren't given the tools to succeed. That's why to me, 70% is a staggering number. If something doesn't work 70% of the time, it's broken. That's why I strongly dislike hearing the "work harder" refrain every time this comes up. That's a dismissive comment to a serious issue. I'm for finding ways to help people who have not "played the game" the right way. I also am for understanding that just because these people made mistakes, doesn't mean that they deserve to stay in poverty. We can't dismiss them as "well, they shouldn't have done x or y". We have to find a way to get that number of successes way up from 30%.

I appreciate your comment.

ETA: DW is a high school teacher in one of the poorest areas of our city. She has too many heartbreaking stories of 9th and 10th graders that are homeless and caring for younger siblings as there are no parents (physically they are there, but mentally not so much). The reason most don't finish isn't due to them just quitting. They never had a shot. They aren't dropping out because they want to be poor. Some don't understand. Some need to make money now. Some move around so much that eventually they do just give up. There's a host of reasons.

I'm just pointing this out as a reply to the high school dropouts don't make as much money. This is true, but its a complicated issue.
 
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I will try to answer this. I absolutely don't think 70% of people born into poverty are lazy. But I do feel that they sometimes make decisions (such as having children young, not having supportive partners, not always valuing the education they do receive) that do not help the situation. Many times these decisions perpetuate the situation they were born into. I am sure what I am trying to say will be misunderstood. For the record, I am divorced and realize that people do not plan to marry and get divorced.

Study after study shows that not graduating high school, having kids very young, etc. do not set one up for financial success.


It would be great if public schools were funded enough.
 













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