Impulse buy - what questions do I need to ask before my 10 day window expires?

[disneynutz]

Choosing a home resort is a best guess until you have stayed at all of the resorts and experienced them yourself, don't rely on board postings. We thought that we would like BLT with all of the positive reviews and hype, but as I have posted before, it is our least favorite.

IMO the Theme Park view is not much of a view at all. The top of the Space Mountain building and the Castle in the distance with a parking lot in the foreground. The Monorail is nice if you don't mind the delays and sometimes not getting a seat. The dues are low but I expect them to continue to adjust at a above average rate due to Disney's selection of mechanicals, hard goods and furnishings and they will add to the dues burden when the building requires early repairs.

There is a couple of pluses. The Lake View is nice unless you are in the interior of the "C" and the walk to the MK is short and great for families with stroller age children.

Our 2 favorite resorts are VWL and BWV. VWL is a boat ride away from the MK and the Monorail. I always get a seat and it never holds for traffic or breaks down. BWV and it's Boardwalk View can not be beat. It is a boat ride from Epcot and DHS and there is plenty to see and do.

There is a favorite resort for everyone but how do you know which one if you haven't experienced them all.

Bill

 

[DopeysGal82]

Thanks for all the replies. I have a few more questions.

DH is kind of getting tired of hearing all of these Devil's Advocate scenarios, I think.

I suggested to DH that we wait 6 months, save more money toward the downpayment, and just see how we feel about it mid-year. He says if we do that we're going to lose the extra year of points and the chance to book good weeks.

According to DH, it's a "no risk" situation because as he calculated it (using today's MF which is not going to hold long term), this is costing us about $1100 per year over the life of the contract. Since we can rent the points for $10 a point through that popular rental site, and get $1600 a year, he feels it's a no risk situation. Even if we don't use our points in a particular year, we can still rent them and get back the money we "Spent" for that year so if plans change or if we find we can't afford to go on vacation, we can get some of that cash value through renting. The man rental site claims that they never have points go unrented, so it would seem we could get $1600 for our points in any given year.

I feel like this seems too good to be true and there must be a flaw in the plan.

Does anyone have any suggestions about the best way to rent out unused points or reservations.

 

[lovin'fl]

We bought our first contract through resale in 2006. We lived in NC at the time and planned to go to Disney at least once a year. Our kids were in year round school and we would make use of the break at the end of September-beginning of October as long as we could. We got 200 points because we knew that we'd need a 2BR when the kids got older (3 kids that were 9, 7 and 7 when we bought). And our middle school was not year round, so we'd eventually need to travel during the more costly summer months. We bought at OKW because that was the cheapest at Disney.

We have since moved to MD (4 years ago in 2007) and it's harder to drive down to FL than it was from NC...we've done it a bunch and are tired of it. We are flying down for the first time in 6 days . But that is too expensive to do once a year as is buying park tickets and paying for dining (for us we figure $3000 for tickets and dining for a week...that's not too bad, but to add on flying, annual MF and groceries...the trip gets pricey real fast).

We wish we bought where we like to stay and that's the boardwalk area (BLT would be primo for us too, but they didn't have that in 2006 when we bought). I love OKW and don't mind staying there (we are in 6 days ), but we prefer the boardwalk area as we love to hop in and out of Epcot. I agree with other posters...buy where you want to stay.

About a year or so ago we realized that we would not be doing Disney so much and we wanted to sell...figured we could pay cash and stay in the regular Disney hotels when we wanted to go (DH has been dying to get the free dining...doesn't seem to grasp that it's not really free). We listed for a couple months. We would have preferred to just sell half of our 200 points, but you cannot break up a contract. So, I agree with PP...don't buy too many points. My inlaws ended up buying half of our points from us, so they get 100 points per year to do as they please (they like to go for 6 nights in January...they are going early for this Jan and are going in 6 days too ).

We just went to POFR (edited to fix...ROFR) on 75 points at HHI. We now kinda wish that our other 200 points was at HHI (we may sell them in a year and buy more at HHI). To us that is now the perfect place to own. If you want to forgo paying the $3000 for park tickets and dining as well as airfare...you can have a nice vacation at HH. Then, if you want to do Disney (every couple of years)...you can book 7 months out at Disney. You just may not get your fave resorts, but OKW seems easy to get and that's our fave of the non-Epcot resorts.

We have also planned out our next 6 years vacations. If we keep OKW points:
2012- non-DVC vacation (which will be to our DDs' softball nationals)
2013- HHI
2014- Disney
2015- DS graduates-Non-DVC (we're thinking cruise on Allure or Oasis)
2016- HHI
2017- DDs graduate- Disney

 

[lovin'fl]

Thanks for all the replies. I have a few more questions.

DH is kind of getting tired of hearing all of these Devil's Advocate scenarios, I think.

I suggested to DH that we wait 6 months, save more money toward the downpayment, and just see how we feel about it mid-year. He says if we do that we're going to lose the extra year of points and the chance to book good weeks.

According to DH, it's a "no risk" situation because as he calculated it (using today's MF which is not going to hold long term), this is costing us about $1100 per year over the life of the contract. Since we can rent the points for $10 a point through that popular rental site, and get $1600 a year, he feels it's a no risk situation. Even if we don't use our points in a particular year, we can still rent them and get back the money we "Spent" for that year so if plans change or if we find we can't afford to go on vacation, we can get some of that cash value through renting. The man rental site claims that they never have points go unrented, so it would seem we could get $1600 for our points in any given year.

I feel like this seems too good to be true and there must be a flaw in the plan.

Does anyone have any suggestions about the best way to rent out unused points or reservations.

We have rented our points before. We rented to friends and family. It seems like there is always someone we know going to Disney who is interested in renting points. When they find out that they can stay in a villa with a w/d and full kitchen for about what they'd be paying for the regular rooms...they jump on renting our points. There is also a thread here, I think, that lets you try to rent out points. And the brokers that sell resales also will rent out points for you.

 

[DopeysGal82]

I think the only thing I would really like more overall than BLT would be BCV or BWV. That area looks amazing and it also has an excellent location.

 

[DVCismyhappyplace]

I suggested to DH that we wait 6 months, save more money toward the downpayment, and just see how we feel about it mid-year. He says if we do that we're going to lose the extra year of points and the chance to book good weeks.

Any time you buy direct from Disney, they will give you the points from the prior UY. Just make it part of your negotiations.

As far as the chance to book the good weeks, for your first DVC trip, you can call your sales guide and they will make arrangements for you. Unless it is a completely sold out week, they will work their Disney magic and get you where you want to stay.

 

[disneynutz]

Thanks for all the replies. I have a few more questions.

DH is kind of getting tired of hearing all of these Devil's Advocate scenarios, I think.

I suggested to DH that we wait 6 months, save more money toward the downpayment, and just see how we feel about it mid-year. He says if we do that we're going to lose the extra year of points and the chance to book good weeks.

According to DH, it's a "no risk" situation because as he calculated it (using today's MF which is not going to hold long term), this is costing us about $1100 per year over the life of the contract. Since we can rent the points for $10 a point through that popular rental site, and get $1600 a year, he feels it's a no risk situation. Even if we don't use our points in a particular year, we can still rent them and get back the money we "Spent" for that year so if plans change or if we find we can't afford to go on vacation, we can get some of that cash value through renting. The man rental site claims that they never have points go unrented, so it would seem we could get $1600 for our points in any given year.

I feel like this seems too good to be true and there must be a flaw in the plan.

Does anyone have any suggestions about the best way to rent out unused points or reservations.

Hi again.

If it was that great of deal, everyone would be doing it.

Renting out your points is not guaranteed. Disney can change the rules at anytime. Revised rules were supposed to be released yesterday but we haven't seen them yet.

Disney recently sent a warning letter to CM owners reminding them that they can not rent and doing so will be met with disciplinary action. They also stated that using a website to rent makes the owner a commercial renter which is against the rules. Their intention is clear, they don't like renting and they are starting to crack down on renting.

One last item, if your renter damages the unit or doesn't pay their room charges, you are responsible. DVC will freeze your account until you pay for the damages and room charges.

There are all types of things to consider before becoming a owner. If after learning about all of the things that Disney doesn't tell you and owning still makes financial sense, then buy. My goal is to give you the information which will allow you to make a informed decision on a level playing field.

Bill

 

[DopeysGal82]

Hi again.



Disney recently sent a warning letter to CM owners reminding them that they can not rent and doing so will be met with disciplinary action. They also stated that using a website to rent makes the owner a commercial renter which is against the rules. Their intention is clear, they don't like renting and they are starting to crack down on renting.
My goal is to give you the information which will allow you to make a informed decision on a level playing field.

Bill

Thanks, Bill!

What is CM owners?

I think they need to put something concrete in the rules then because we were told over and over again about renting points you don't use, and even renting for profit. Our sales guide told us he works with someone in LI who rents out something like 3000 points a year. They even told us we could sell ressies on ebay. I know they're trying to sell the product, but I'm a salesperson too, and there's a difference between showing your product in the best light and outright lying.

If we wouldn't be able to rent the points in the future I feel like that would be a game changer. It's a great comfort to me to know that if things change I'm not stuck losing points and can still get some value.

If they were to really crack down on renting, I would think they'd have to increase the rollover rate, because it really would stink to have a "use it or lose it" policy.

 

[Breyean]

Thanks, Bill!

What is CM owners?

CM = Cast Members

So this applied to Disney employees who bought DVC using their CM discount.

 

[DopeysGal82]

CM = Cast Members

So this applied to Disney employees who bought DVC using their CM discount.

Gotcha. That's what I thought, but I wasn't sure!

Thanks!

 

[disneynutz]

Thanks, Bill!

What is CM owners?

I think they need to put something concrete in the rules then because we were told over and over again about renting points you don't use, and even renting for profit. Our sales guide told us he works with someone in LI who rents out something like 3000 points a year. They even told us we could sell ressies on ebay. I know they're trying to sell the product, but I'm a salesperson too, and there's a difference between showing your product in the best light and outright lying.

If we wouldn't be able to rent the points in the future I feel like that would be a game changer. It's a great comfort to me to know that if things change I'm not stuck losing points and can still get some value.

If they were to really crack down on renting, I would think they'd have to increase the rollover rate, because it really would stink to have a "use it or lose it" policy.

Disney is a business and they will do a lot of stinky things if it makes them more money. Yes they have a wonderful product that we all love and you can't find a more beautiful place to vacation than WDW.

The only contractual guarantee is that you will have a 1 month priority to book at your home resort. Everything else is subject to change.

A person who was renting members points for them was having the owners add him to their accounts as an associate. He would make all of the arrangements and do all of the work. Disney found out about him and a couple of years ago changed the associate rules affectively closing his business down.

Today several companies are advertising DVC rentals, Disney will either go after these companies, the point owners who use these companies, or they will change the rental rules to reduce the number of owners who rent. Even though Disney will tell you that you can rent your points, doing so decreases the number of Guests booking a room directly with Disney which upsets the Mouse.

The sales Guides will tell you a lot of things that makes it seem that buying has no down side. They don't really lie, they just don't tell you the whole truth. You can use your points to book trips to locations other that the DVC resorts, what they don't tell you is that availability is limited and there are extra fees involved and that you can usually get a better deal by not using your points.

Bill

 

[DopeysGal82]

Our guide DID tell us that using points for other Disney resorts or DCL is really a waste, but he kind of played up the exchanges with other resorts.

DVC has been around for 20 years, and has been all over the internet for 10 years at least. Is it really likely that they will crack down on renting? I can understand cracking down on people who really are using it for commercial use, but are they going to try to stop the average Joe from renting out his points every few years?

For us, i think we're comfortable with the amount of points we have. We have enough to kind of alternate nice stays and REALLY nice stays, use some points for a trip to DL, etc. I don't anticipate that we'll need to rent out our points and I really hope we don't, but it's a comfort to know you can do that. It would also be annoying, if we're short a few points, to have to pay Disney's $15 when we can pay $10 an owner. I think if they really are going to crack down, it's going to be really tough. It's not necessarily a deal-breaker, I guess if you really intend to use your points, but I REALLY hope they don't do that. I mean, isn't renting common timeshare practice? The one time my family went on vacation we rented a timeshare..this was before the internet though so it was a friend of a friend and all private

 

[shillee]

I have been reading this thread (as with most others) with great interest. We are NOT current DVC owners. I have been reading these boards on and off now for years and maybe one day I will own

We first looked into DVC about 10 years ago I believe (when Disney was selling BWV at $48/point). We LOVE Disney and typically go there once a year (sometimes more) and spend 2 weeks or so there. In the last year, we spent 5 weeks there overall as an example.

So, here are some of my 'random' thoughts based on some of the comments that have come in:
* your lifestyle may change (i.e. children, job, etc.)
* until kids, we always stayed onsite with gradually moving up the ranks from value to moderate and then deluxe resorts. The deals some number of years ago were great for rooms (i.e. AP discounts of 40%, etc.) so that helped offset costs for rooms.
* Having stayed now at most resorts, we still absolutely LOVE Boardwalk. It is where we would buy without question (part of our wedding was there).
* Resale is the way we would go for the cost savings - I am not going to hand over more money to Disney than I need to for no benefit that I see.
* The sales people are there to make a sale. On our last trip we were at the back of a character greeting line and the CM there was actually a DVC sales person (job change due to the fact that she had hurt her hand and couldn't do computer work at the moment). We had an 'enlightening' conversation where she really tried to 'convince' me that buying direct was the way to go. I got a good chuckle out of the fact that I could recite maintenance fees and some costs better than her. I even knew the post cost of BW for when were were there as I had looked at that option for our stay. You need to ensure you know what you are buying and what you get - and what is 'guaranteed' and what can be taken away.
* For us right now with young kids, staying off-site works best for us (yes, we miss part of that special magic but our sanity is intact). I have found some great deals for 2-3 bedroom places and I could not see us without a kitchen and some downtime place. A studio wouldn't work for us and a 1 bedroom (168 pts a week when we went) at renting was more than we paid for 2 weeks off-site.
* when the kids are older, I can see our needs for rooms changing. We may eventually decide we don't want to rent a car. A single room may work fine or we may want something a bit nicer.
* thanks to these boards, I will be prepared when we finally consider buying into DVC and I know I will still learn more in the meantime. Take your time to understand what you are getting and paying for and the price you need to pay.

 

[Brian Noble]

as he calculated it

He is almost certainly taking the purchase price, and dividing it by the number of years on the contract, then adding MFs. Right?

If so, that's EXACTLY what Disney hopes you are doing, and it ignores the fact that $100 today is worth more (a LOT more) than $100 40 years from now.

(I'll note that nearly every "regular" timeshare presentation in the universe actually does this calculation. Even Disney does, in a round about way. The quickest way of ending your tour early is to point out that the time-value of money is being ignored.)

Instead, you need to account for this idea---that there is a "time value" of money as well as a "dollar value" of money. The dollar value of $100 is $100. The "time value" is, effectively equal to the interest rate it would cost you if you borrowed it, or equivalently, the earnings you would expect if you invested it.

I can guarantee you that when Disney's "sharp-pencil boys" figured out how much they had to charge up-front for contracts, to make up for the loss of long-term rental rates, they absolutely made this calculation.

If you add this in---even at a very modest "rate of interest/return" for your $100, you will find that renting a BLT developer purchase at $10/pt is not nearly as attractive as it appears.

But, it appears that you've made up your mind to go ahead with this purchase. And, if you do, honestly you are probably going to be happy long term that you did. But, it's not the wisest possible way of going about things.

Our guide DID tell us that using points for other Disney resorts or DCL is really a waste, but he kind of played up the exchanges with other resorts.

Also a waste. Even more of one, in most cases.

DVC has been around for 20 years, and has been all over the internet for 10 years at least. Is it really likely that they will crack down on renting? I can understand cracking down on people who really are using it for commercial use, but are they going to try to stop the average Joe from renting out his points every few years?

I don't view this as the risk. The risk is the the pool of "owners renting" grows faster than the rental market demand. And, as the ownership base grows, the set of people willing to rent out their points grows as well. If you look at the point rental market, it's remained remarkably flat over time vs. the growth in annual dues. Why is that going to get better? I don't see a reason.

 

[DopeysGal82]

He is almost certainly taking the purchase price, and dividing it by the number of years on the contract, then adding MFs. Right?

If so, that's EXACTLY what Disney hopes you are doing, and it ignores the fact that $100 today is worth more (a LOT more) than $100 40 years from now.

(I'll note that nearly every "regular" timeshare presentation in the universe actually does this calculation. Even Disney does, in a round about way. The quickest way of ending your tour early is to point out that the time-value of money is being ignored.)

Instead, you need to account for this idea---that there is a "time value" of money as well as a "dollar value" of money. The dollar value of $100 is $100. The "time value" is, effectively equal to the interest rate it would cost you if you borrowed it, or equivalently, the earnings you would expect if you invested it.

I can guarantee you that when Disney's "sharp-pencil boys" figured out how much they had to charge up-front for contracts, to make up for the loss of long-term rental rates, they absolutely made this calculation.

If you add this in---even at a very modest "rate of interest/return" for your $100, you will find that renting a BLT developer purchase at $10/pt is not nearly as attractive as it appears.

But, it appears that you've made up your mind to go ahead with this purchase. And, if you do, honestly you are probably going to be happy long term that you did. But, it's not the wisest possible way of going about things.


Also a waste. Even more of one, in most cases.


I don't view this as the risk. The risk is the the pool of "owners renting" grows faster than the rental market demand. And, as the ownership base grows, the set of people willing to rent out their points grows as well. If you look at the point rental market, it's remained remarkably flat over time vs. the growth in annual dues. Why is that going to get better? I don't see a reason.

All great points. Thanks for sharing that perspective. You've really thought this through.

In terms of the time value of money, I was thinking it would be offset in terms of the overall value to us of the contract, by the rate of hotel rate hikes. I once paid $74 for POFQ, now even with an AP discount, it's twice that. I think this is an investment that can pay off. I mean IF we use our points and can keep up the dues, we're still getting a steep discount on Deluxe Accommodations.

I find myself in an odd position with my DH. Usually when we disagree or are unsure of something (like when I wanted a Cinderella Coach at the wedding), one of us either shows the other why it's worth it, or why we can't afford it (DH won that one..no pumpkin coach for me). Now I'm arguing against DH for something I (emotionally) want, but am (rationally/financially) worried about. He really wants this, so he has an answer for every objection.

Where I am is

PROS:
- I think long term it will save us money, or at least ensure we're staying at nicer accommodations.
-We do plan to go to Disney about once per year for the foreseeable future. We don't have kids yet, so we have a lot of years ahead of us bringing kids too. Many years before the kids are "too old"
-Knowing we'll be back and having a nicer accommodation and give us time to really enjoy the parks at a slower pace.
-Can rent out points to cover expenses so there's no "loss"

CONS:
-It is a LOT of money up front. We could invest that money or put it toward other things we need, like a downpayment on a home, new furniture, or a new car.
-There's a vacation opportunity cost. If we wanted to skip a Disney vacation one year and use the money we would have spend for Disney say, in Europe, or at Tokyo Disney, we really can't do that. We're locked into yearly vacations at Disney. It's a sunk cost, which will also make Disney vacations much more appealing than other choices and could limit our travel in the long term.
- It's possible that in the future it may not be as easy to rent point or that rental rates won't keep up with maintenance fees, so we'll be forced to lose points or take a loss
-I'm really not sure if paying extra for BLT is worth it, especially since the main thing I like about it is location. I think the location that's most appealing to be is Boardwalk, but that would most likely be resale and I'd be dealing with a shorter term contract. SSR is very nice, but DH doesn't like it, and it is a very spread out resort in a remote location.
- Things can change. Our financial situation could god forbid change due to job changes, and we'll have more bills when we have children or buy a home. I'd hate to have this bill be something that causes us to struggle to support our children or pay our mortgage.
-If we sell before the contract is up, we'll most likely take a very big loss, of at least 30%, plus closing costs.
-48 years is an extremely long time. It's impossible to predict what our vacation habits will be.

 

[disneynutz]

All great points. Thanks for sharing that perspective. You've really thought this through.

In terms of the time value of money, I was thinking it would be offset in terms of the overall value to us of the contract, by the rate of hotel rate hikes. I once paid $74 for POFQ, now even with an AP discount, it's twice that. I think this is an investment that can pay off. I mean IF we use our points and can keep up the dues, we're still getting a steep discount on Deluxe Accommodations.

I find myself in an odd position with my DH. Usually when we disagree or are unsure of something (like when I wanted a Cinderella Coach at the wedding), one of us either shows the other why it's worth it, or why we can't afford it (DH won that one..no pumpkin coach for me). Now I'm arguing against DH for something I (emotionally) want, but am (rationally/financially) worried about. He really wants this, so he has an answer for every objection.

Where I am is

PROS:
- I think long term it will save us money, or at least ensure we're staying at nicer accommodations.
-We do plan to go to Disney about once per year for the foreseeable future. We don't have kids yet, so we have a lot of years ahead of us bringing kids too. Many years before the kids are "too old"
-Knowing we'll be back and having a nicer accommodation and give us time to really enjoy the parks at a slower pace.
-Can rent out points to cover expenses so there's no "loss"

CONS:
-It is a LOT of money up front. We could invest that money or put it toward other things we need, like a downpayment on a home, new furniture, or a new car.
-There's a vacation opportunity cost. If we wanted to skip a Disney vacation one year and use the money we would have spend for Disney say, in Europe, or at Tokyo Disney, we really can't do that. We're locked into yearly vacations at Disney. It's a sunk cost, which will also make Disney vacations much more appealing than other choices and could limit our travel in the long term.
- It's possible that in the future it may not be as easy to rent point or that rental rates won't keep up with maintenance fees, so we'll be forced to lose points or take a loss
-I'm really not sure if paying extra for BLT is worth it, especially since the main thing I like about it is location. I think the location that's most appealing to be is Boardwalk, but that would most likely be resale and I'd be dealing with a shorter term contract. SSR is very nice, but DH doesn't like it, and it is a very spread out resort in a remote location.
- Things can change. Our financial situation could god forbid change due to job changes, and we'll have more bills when we have children or buy a home. I'd hate to have this bill be something that causes us to struggle to support our children or pay our mortgage.
-If we sell before the contract is up, we'll most likely take a very big loss, of at least 30%, plus closing costs.
-48 years is an extremely long time. It's impossible to predict what our vacation habits will be.

Seems like you have a good handle on the ins and outs.

Expect the value of your contracts to be zero on the resale market. All of our holdings continue to decrease in value. As little as 2 years ago, we bought some VWL points at $85 per point, now you can buy them at $58. Don't forget closing costs and broker fees.

I doubt that you or I will keep our contracts to term. The longer you own, the less time spent in the parks. You get tired of the crowds and Disney transportation. We are at WDW now and on our 15th day. Guess how many times we have been in the parks, not one day so far. I can see how Disney burn out can happen.

Owning a DVC interest and going to WDW every year is a luxury. We own real estate, have grown kids, money put away for retirement. I don't think that I would visit WDW as often as we do or own at the DVC if we were just starting out. I just read a couple of weeks ago that the current cost to raise a child is $280,000. You have a lot to think about.

Good luck with what ever you decide to do.

Bill

 

[Deb & Bill]

Our guide DID tell us that using points for other Disney resorts or DCL is really a waste, but he kind of played up the exchanges with other resorts. .....

It would also be annoying, if we're short a few points, to have to pay Disney's $15 when we can pay $10 an owner. I think if they really are going to crack down, it's going to be really tough. ...

Of course he did play up exchanges with other resorts. How easy did he make it seem? A one or two year wait may be required to get that resort you want and he played up. And even then it's not guaranteed.

As for paying Disney $15 versus paying another member $10, you are a little confused here. If you were short points, you would need a transfer from another member. Since you are permitted only one transfer in or out each year, a lot of members won't waste that for a few points. You'd have to rent an entire day or days from another member. They control the reservation at all times. You can't add the dining plan or magical express or do anything to that reservation.

DVC is already cracking down on renting. A few years ago some of the more prolific renters were sent letters telling them to basically cease and desist when they exceeded 20 per year. Some members wound up selling off lots of points. Another member who was renting off of ebay wound up filing bankruptcy over his renting. He left multiple renters wondering if their Christmas reservation was going to be there when they arrived. Some people even wound up renting non-existent reservations or reservations that were cancelled once the member failed to pay their dues.

 

[crisi]

I don't view this as the risk. The risk is the the pool of "owners renting" grows faster than the rental market demand. And, as the ownership base grows, the set of people willing to rent out their points grows as well. If you look at the point rental market, it's remained remarkably flat over time vs. the growth in annual dues. Why is that going to get better? I don't see a reason.

This is big. As they sell more contracts there are more owners. And because they sell contracts to Disney fans - there are fewer "knowing" people in the market for points. More points on the market, fewer people looking for points. With the poor economy, there have been a few cases where people's points have gone unrented.

 

[DopeysGal82]

Thanks everyone. I really feel better knowing that I understand a lot more than I did a week ago.

I think we are going to go ahead with it. I know it's a little bit crazy, but it means a lot to DH. I spoke with him about it and *I* am the Disney fanatic in the family and*I* was the one that brought up DVC years ago and said to him "Would it be sad if we owned a timeshare before we owned a home, because I think it's gonna happen!" So I always thought about DVC as something *I* really wanted, and not something DH would independently want.

I kept pressing DH about it and found out it's not really the money, or the supposed savings, etc that's driving him. He's coming from a really emotional place about it. Just one of the intangibles. Without boring you with details, we were engaged for over 7 years before we got married due to a lot of unexpected things coming up, family, financial, etc. Among those things was that DH's father died at a young age of cancer. Before he died, we were planning a whole family trip and I had priced out a 3 BR Villa for all of us but it didn't work out at that time and then he passed away. So for DH it's 2 things.. He doesn't want to wait anymore to do the things we dreamed of doing, and I think the idea of having this "vacation home" and being able to rent/borrow/add on points to take huge family vacations for years to come really appeals to him and makes him happy.

At least I figured it out. I know my posts must have sounded confused and I was because I always thought *I* would be the one pushing for DVC. I love Disney like a child, I plan our vacations like crazy, and as much as I know it's an illusion, I like the things that make me feel like more a part of the magic. Even though the cost savings isn't that huge and it makes us ineligible for free dining, I still always prefer to have an AP. It's a terrible card, but I have the Disney Visa, etc.

I'm not used to being the "rational" one, forcing us to look at pros and cons. But it seems like the feeling it will give DH to be able to take those nicer vacations and bring friends and family is worth more than the money. Also, I can foresee that we will use it enough to break even, so hopefully it does wind up making financial sense. DH makes very good money. Earlier this year he switched jobs and took a 40% pay increase. We haven't "felt" it yet because we had the wedding to pay for and we're just about to finish up paying off a car loan in a month of two. Having been through some very rough economic times, I still always feel scared. I want to clip coupons and save pennies, but god willing, we will be able to stay in a position where we're doing ok financially.

I'm trying to make sure DH understands all the Pros and Cons, such as trade outs are hard, renting isn't that easy and may be cracked down upon soon. The DVC sales people wooed us with how much money we'd be able to make selling a Christmas week ressie. I told DH we have to not even be able to count on renting out points in our "Can we afford it?" scenario.I also told him that even if we bought and sold the next day, we'd lose about $40/point on it.

 

[JimC]

But now you are making an informed decision based on your situation and priorities after a great deal of input. Best wishes