I'm curious - percentage of students with IEP/504/etc

[HelenePA]

Your kids must go to a very large school. In smaller schools, it isn't some hush hush secret who has IEP's. And no, you don't need to read school files to know.

Nope very TINY school. One school for the whole district of about 1000 kids.. I have NO idea why its anyone would want to sit there and go thru IEP files unless you needed to know something about my dd... I hope to god not every person in the school has access to those files.. they are supposed to be confidential, I'd assume not every teacher can just walk in and say HEY let me see HelenePa's dd's IEP just for the hell of it

 

[HelenePA]

and of course they know she HAS an IEP duh she's in a life skill class but to know exactly what is in it? no need for every teacher to know that..

 

[princessmom29]

Manifestation determination.

(1) Within 10 school days of any decision to change the placement of a child with a disability because of a violation of a code of student conduct, the LEA, the parent, and relevant members of the child's IEP Team (as determined by the parent and the LEA) must review all relevant information in the student's file, including the child's IEP, any teacher observations, and any relevant information provided by the parents to determine--

that is for a change in placement, IE changing schools or programs, not for disciplinary action. Seperate set of rules entirely. If we wanted to send a child to an alternative placement this would apply, but since that is limited to only children who have caused serous bodily harm to another student right now because our programs are so overcrowded, it rarely happens. Most people have no idea of the reality of what teachers deal with day to day. You can quote all the statues you want, but the reality of the situation is often much different that what you read off a website.

 

[SaraJayne]

Nope very TINY school. One school for the whole district of about 1000 kids.. I have NO idea why its anyone would want to sit there and go thru IEP files unless you needed to know something about my dd... I hope to god not every person in the school has access to those files.. they are supposed to be confidential, I'd assume not every teacher can just walk in and say HEY let me see HelenePa's dd's IEP just for the hell of it

Not one person has said they are reading files they shouldn't have access to.

Parents and kids talk. Before you start accusing teachers of doing illegal things, look to the parents and the kids with IEP's.

 

[HelenePA]

Not one person has said they are reading files they shouldn't have access to.

Parents and kids talk. Before you start accusing teachers of doing illegal things, look to the parents and the kids with IEP's.

my dd doesn't even know what an IEP is to talk about it to other student, I have NO idea what is in any of her classmates IEPs nor should i.. its none of my business...

 

[daughtersrus]

that is for a change in placement, IE changing schools or programs, not for disciplinary action. Seperate set of rules entirely. If we wanted to send a child to an alternative placement this would apply, but since that is limited to only children who have caused serous bodily harm to another student right now because our programs are so overcrowded, it rarely happens. Most people have no idea of the reality of what teachers deal with day to day. You can quote all the statues you want, but the reality of the situation is often much different that what you read off a website.

I'm sorry that your school is not abiding by the laws. It sounds like they're forgetting what the "I" in IEP stands for.

BTW, my DD#1 is a SpEd.




(2) Change of Placement Because of Disciplinary Removals. The child’s IEP Team determines the interim alternative educational setting for services.
(a) For purposes of removals of a child with a disability from the child’s current educational placement, a change of placement occurs if the removal is for more than ten (10) consecutive school days, including partial school days of a half day or more, or the child has been subjected to a series of removals that constitute a pattern because the series of removals total more than ten (10) school days in a school year, because the child’s behavior is substantially similar to the child’s behavior in previous incidents of misconduct that resulted in the series of removals, and because of such additional factors as the length of each removal, the total amount of time the child has been removed, and the proximity of the removals to one another. The public agency (a minimum of an administrator and the student’s special education teacher) determines on a case-by-case basis whether a pattern of removals constitutes a change of placement. This determination is subject to review through due process and judicial proceedings.
(b) Notification. On the date on which the decision is made to make a removal that constitutes a change of placement of a child with a disability because of a violation of a code of student conduct, the LEA must notify the parents of that decision, and provide the parents the procedural safeguards notice.

 

[princessmom29]

my dd doesn't even know what an IEP is to talk about it to other student, I have NO idea what is in any of her classmates IEPs nor should i.. its none of my business...

Most of my kids with an IEP know exactly what it is, and what it says thier teachers must do. They will let you know really quickly if you are not following it, and I think that is a good thing. They are informed about thier own education.

 

[daughtersrus]

Not one person has said they are reading files they shouldn't have access to.

Parents and kids talk. Before you start accusing teachers of doing illegal things, look to the parents and the kids with IEP's.

Without reading the IEP, it's impossible to know what accommodations are listed and how much time, if any, they take for the teacher to complete.

the problem here is that you assume that your son's case is typical of most children with an IEP. That is FAR from true in most palces. The number of children who have IEPS for behavior issues is 3-4X the number of children like your son in my school, and in every school I have been in.
In a population of 1600, about 15% of whom are on an IEP we have exatcly 6 who are there for physical impairment like your son. Many of them have congmnative delay of some sort combined with behavior issues, but I would say that half of the around 200 IEPs have a behavior component, and easily 3/4 require accomodations that take significant time from the classroom teacher to complete.

 

[KrysiaG]

Not at all. You absolutely should advocate for your child, average or not. You just shouldn't advocate AGAINST other people's children.

Ditto.

and goodness, I find a lot of posts in this thread absolutely disturbing.

Originally Posted by daughtersrus
There have been some posts about IEP students "taking away" from the rest of the class.

I also can't believe ANYONE would ever say or think this. Seriously?

 

[princessmom29]

I'm sorry that your school is not abiding by the laws. It sounds like they're forgetting what the "I" in IEP stands for.

BTW, my DD#1 is a SpEd.




(2) Change of Placement Because of Disciplinary Removals. The child’s IEP Team determines the interim alternative educational setting for services.
(a) For purposes of removals of a child with a disability from the child’s current educational placement, a change of placement occurs if the removal is for more than ten (10) consecutive school days, including partial school days of a half day or more, or the child has been subjected to a series of removals that constitute a pattern because the series of removals total more than ten (10) school days in a school year, because the child’s behavior is substantially similar to the child’s behavior in previous incidents of misconduct that resulted in the series of removals, and because of such additional factors as the length of each removal, the total amount of time the child has been removed, and the proximity of the removals to one another. The public agency (a minimum of an administrator and the student’s special education teacher) determines on a case-by-case basis whether a pattern of removals constitutes a change of placement. This determination is subject to review through due process and judicial proceedings.
(b) Notification. On the date on which the decision is made to make a removal that constitutes a change of placement of a child with a disability because of a violation of a code of student conduct, the LEA must notify the parents of that decision, and provide the parents the procedural safeguards notice.

AGIAN! This ONLY deals with a change of placement, not a disciplinary hearing. The 10 day rule ONLY applies when a change of placement is being considered. Change of placement ONLY occurs when a child has caused serious bodily harm to another child becuase alternative facilities are overcrowded. THAT IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAN A DISCIPLINARY HEARING FOR ALTERNATIVE ACTION WITHIN THE CURRENT PLACEMENT!!!!!YOU CANNOT suspend a child recieving special ED services for more than 15 days in this dictrict without a hearing. Those hearings are almost impossible to get, and while you are waiting for one, the child cannot be suspended.

 

[princessmom29]

Without reading the IEP, it's impossible to know what accommodations are listed and how much time, if any, they take for the teacher to complete.

agian, once you have read several hundred or more, you know what the typical accomdations are fro particular needs. Will a few be different, yes, but 90% of kids with the same disablity get the same accomodations, at least in my experience.

 

[KrysiaG]

This thread started out with "curiosity" and some PP are wondering why those of us with kids who have IEP/504 are defensive. Let me tell you some possible reasons.
#1- Maybe we're sick of people being "curious" about our child...my son has been in the hospital dozens of times, and has come home prior to his Mic-Key feeding tube with an NG feeding tube hanging out his nose for 4 months, while being in a wheelchair, 30lbs underweight and as pale as snow, we have had enough curiosity to last a lifetime, thanks.
#2- I want you to think about this question before jumping to answer...why is it any of your business???? Yes, there are probably many more IEPs now than ever before, but isn't that a good thing? Doesn't that mean that kids with special needs are being given an equal opportunity? I know that you can't begrudge a child from getting an equal chance at success, and when it comes down to the brass tax of it, that is what the IEP/504 does.
#3- there is so much assumption that these kids are disruptive. My son is the sweetest least disruptive child you will ever meet. He loves everyone, even those non-IEP jerk kids who think its funny to call names, they are way more disruptive than my boy. I wonder if they are being taught in their home that those darn IEP kids have it so good, and that's why they think it's ok to act that way, hmmmm.....anyway, most modification's will not affect your child's schooling, and some may even enhance their education. Most teachers have told me that the class has become better off having a child with special needs in it, the kids learn that everyone is different, and that everyone gets treated uniquely, not equally. That is a vary valuable lesson in life.
#4- I think some of the problem is people assuming they know what modifications IEPs give, such as handing out A's, and letting kids climb the walls. My son was born with CP, so writing is very difficult for him. His IEP states that he can type his assignments. His muscles in his eyes have become very weak and he can no longer read even simple words without much trouble, so his IEP says that anything that needs to be read is read to him. This can be done by a reading buddy (looky there, an opportunity for YOUR kid to shine) or an aide. He has other modifications, that only help to level the playing field for him. His work is still graded, he gets an F for a missing assignment, and he is expected to participate in class discussions.
#5-It looks like some people are just sure that IEPs are handed out like candy. Well my son is very obviously physically and mentally disabled, and his designation took letters from his Neurologist, Pediatrician, Nuero-physcologist and physical therapist...many of whom had to sign things that read "His condition is not expected to improve" and agreeing that my son is in fact disabled. We did have early intervention, but every IEP meeting we still have to prove that his condition is the same, and that all his previous accommodations are still necessary. I spend whole days working on his IEP, we have quarterly IEP meetings and a big one in the Fall and Spring. Unless the school system just sucks down there, I honestly have to say I can't see a school just giving an IEP.

Overall though, my biggest problem was the "tone" that seemed to say "Ugh, all these kids with these things, and they get all this attention and my normal kid is just wasting away in the back of the class". That just makes me cringe, I really get so irritated at peoples jealousy over my kid getting services that just help him be like any other kid.

'nuff said.

 

[HelenePA]

Most of my kids with an IEP know exactly what it is, and what it says thier teachers must do. They will let you know really quickly if you are not following it, and I think that is a good thing. They are informed about thier own education.

Even if my dd sat in on her IEP meeting (which has to happen at 13 by law) she would not understand any of it...

 

[princessmom29]

Even if my dd sat in on her IEP meeting (which has to happen at 13 by law) she would not understand any of it...

Truly sorry for that. I am glad however when kids know what accomdations they should be getting and are able to advocate for themselves.

 

[daughtersrus]

AGIAN! This ONLY deals with a change of placement, not a disciplinary hearing. The 10 day rule ONLY applies when a change of placement is being considered. Change of placement ONLY occurs when a child has caused serious bodily harm to another child becuase alternative facilities are overcrowded. THAT IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAN A DISCIPLINARY HEARING FOR ALTERNATIVE ACTION WITHIN THE CURRENT PLACEMENT!!!!!YOU CANNOT suspend a child recieving special ED services for more than 15 days in this dictrict without a hearing. Those hearings are almost impossible to get, and while you are waiting for one, the child cannot be suspended.

A student with an IEP can be removed for more than 15 days. At least according to the law.

(c) After a child with a disability has been removed from his or her current placement for ten (10) school days in the same school year, during any subsequent days of removal the public agency must provide services to the child with a disability who is removed from the child’s current placement. The child must continue to receive educational services, so as to continue to participate in the general education curriculum, although in another setting, and to progress toward meeting the goals set out in the child’s IEP, and receive, as appropriate, a functional behavioral assessment and behavioral intervention services and modifications, that are designed to address the behavior violation so that it does not recur.

agian, once you have read several hundred or more, you know what the typical accomdations are fro particular needs. Will a few be different, yes, but 90% of kids with the same disablity get the same accomodations, at least in my experience.

Again, unless you've read the documents, you don't know what the needs are or what the accommodations are. You can assume, but you don't know.

 

[TheIncredibles!]

Without reading the IEP, it's impossible to know what accommodations are listed and how much time, if any, they take for the teacher to complete.

Exactly. My son has been with the same 2 girls (sisters) since they were in the Pre-school Disabled program together. 10 years of them being in the same classes this whole time, same therapists, same teachers etc. I have absolutely no clue not only what their actual diagnosis is, I also have no idea what modifications they have in their IEP's.

The same two girls are now in the new school with my son. Still no clue what modifications they asked of the high school and what modifications the school agreed to.

That's the way it's supposed to be. I would be absolutely horrified if the other mom knew any details about my son's IEP unless I told her personally and I am sure she would feel the same way about her daughters.

 

[princessmom29]

A student with an IEP can be removed for more than 15 days. At least according to the law.

(c) After a child with a disability has been removed from his or her current placement for ten (10) school days in the same school year, during any subsequent days of removal the public agency must provide services to the child with a disability who is removed from the child’s current placement. The child must continue to receive educational services, so as to continue to participate in the general education curriculum, although in another setting, and to progress toward meeting the goals set out in the child’s IEP, and receive, as appropriate, a functional behavioral assessment and behavioral intervention services and modifications, that are designed to address the behavior violation so that it does not recur.




Again, unless you've read the documents, you don't know what the needs are or what the accommodations are. You can assume, but you don't know.

they cannot be suspended form school, and in this dictrict, they don't consider ISS participating in the curricilium so that is out too.

Why can't you accept that I have a pretty good idea how to help a child with a particular disability, even without having read their specific IEP? Most kids who have difficulty with written expression are allowed to respond orally for instance, or a child that has diffcultly focusing usually takes thier tests in a resource room. It's not rocket science to figure this stuff out. As I havesaid numerous times, individual children will absolutely vary from this parrten, but most will have these accomodations. That is all I am saying.

 

[princessmom29]

Exactly. My son has been with the same 2 girls (sisters) since they were in the Pre-school Disabled program together. 10 years of them being in the same classes this whole time, same therapists, same teachers etc. I have absolutely no clue not only what their actual diagnosis is, I also have no idea what modifications they have in their IEP's.

The same two girls are now in the new school with my son. Still no clue what modifications they asked of the high school and what modifications the school agreed to.

That's the way it's supposed to be. I would be absolutely horrified if the other mom knew any details about my son's IEP unless I told her personally and I am sure she would feel the same way about her daughters.

I am sure that if you were in the classroom with them on a daily basis you would have a better idea of what is beoing done to accomodate them, even without reading the IEP. NO, moms don't needto know unless there is a direct reason why, but it is pretty hard to sit in a classroom with a child every day and not notice that he/she is donig things differently than the rest of the class. Of course this would only apply for in class modifications.

 

[lisalis]

I've taught for about 15 years and I've had from 2 to 5 out of 25 - 28 students in my classroom with IEPs. Like other PPs have stated, there are many other factors that play into the classroom dynamic. I have found that having students with IEPs is helpful because there is extra support given for those students and the classroom teacher who has them. What was more stressful for me as a teacher were those students who were not low enough to get extra support(and there are usually more of these than IEP students), but were not achieving grade level in a subject/subjects. Students need to be about 2 years behind to qualify for spec. ed. services. I would need to do intervention plans for these students, giving them extra instruction and documenting progress. You also would have a few above and beyond students, who also need to be challenged, although they can usually work pretty independently if you do the legwork of planning and accountability. After all this you would have about 10 - 12 average students, but this is the whole essence of living in a community. I would hate to see students separated out and not learn how to work together with our strengths and weaknesses. As students get to middle school, students are offered special labs for extra help, regular classes, and advanced courses.

I have learned as a parent that we do need to be our child's greatest advocate. No one knows our child like us, and sometimes we need to speak up in a respectful way. If you feel like something is taking away from your child's education, bring it up to the teacher. Sometimes a parent voice will help the teacher more clearly see a need or get the support they need from administration.

 

[1girln3boys]

I will never understand the point of view that curiosity, asking questions and learning about topics that are unfamiliar to you are a bad thing. People learn by being curious and asking questions. How do you think we got to the point were IEPs and 504s can be offered? People were curious and asked questions and learned and took action.

"Disruptive" is not limited to a child that is throwing a tantrum in the classroom. I would also classify as disruptive the fact that the teacher has to formulate a half dozen or more different test formats instead of one due to the accomodations that he/she is required to give. The more test formats the teacher has to provide the more ALL OF THEM are going to suffer. That would be "disruptive" too.

She normally does this in her free time at home or duing conference/meeting times. At younger levels all the tests(at least here) for one grade level is the same. In Jr. High when a teacher makes another test for my son it only takes a few min to either rework the question or take some questions out. Sometimes he needs things read to him and this is done by an aide in most cases. And I had a teacher last night volunteer to do go above and beyond for my son with special needs. He has an IEP and his teacher wants him in the level class. I was worried bc of his accomadations and she said "whatever he's having trouble with I will help. My goal is to find out if he knows the material and I'll do whatever I have to do find out" And she won't do it in class time and disrupt your precious perfect child. She will do in either before or after school or during advisory.