I'm curious - percentage of students with IEP/504/etc

[TheIncredibles!]

If they had to eliminate teachers and make class sizes larger to be able to hire that aide, that would affect every student in that larger class.

Again, resources are limited. The number of aides that must be hired will affect the number of teachers they can hire. The number of teachers they hire will affect the number of students in the class (fewer teachers, larger classes). Most people seem to agree that smaller class sizes are better for education.

Money doesn't magically appear because a school district has to hire an aide.

So what is your solution? Kids that need IEP's should not be sent to school at all so the resources can be focused only on kids that meet a certain standard?

 

[alaskanabbott]

there are days when I have NO plannig time to be spent on my regular ed students becuase I am dealing with IEP accomdations or related paperwork. On thoes days, my students might not be getting the cool demo I had planned to help them understand a concept becuase I didn't have time to get it ready. Or, there is no resource teacher to read a test so I have to do it and give my class seatwork instead of the lab we planned to do. I have a visually impared child so I have to spend a couple of hours at home re-writing atest on graphing to accomodate them so I don't get to put feedback on the tests I graded. Students don't get to find out exactly what they did wrong. I could keeep going, but these are all real examples from my personal experience where my kids have suffered becuase I didn't have enough time to do everything and be everywhere. It happens more than you would like to think becuase teachers need to sleep too.

Well I have had kids in the public school system for 15 years, I have 6 kids, one who is special needs, two who are gifted. After discussing this with some teachers, who all struggle with time managment,NOT related to IEPs, I think maybe you need some help! B/C It sounds like you are having a hard time dealing with teaching, and BTW THIS IS TEACHING!!! All levels, all abilities, and IEPs...that's how it's going to be for you, so if you can't figure out how to do it, then maybe the problem isn't with the IEP kids.

 

[TheIncredibles!]

What about Advanced kids? Aren't they also a drain on the teacher? The teacher needs special, advanced courses for them, needs time to make their tests, needs time to talk with their parents, needs to cater to what they need.

But this isn't considered a problem??? Only the kids who need extra help because they are behind are a problem, not the ones who need extras because they are ahead???

Many people feel that's ok because those kids will be "productive members of society"....@@

 

[1girln3boys]

Well I have had kids in the public school system for 15 years, I have 6 kids, one who is special needs, two who are gifted. After discussing this with some teachers, who all struggle with time managment,NOT related to IEPs, I think maybe you need some help! B/C It sounds like you are having a hard time dealing with teaching, and BTW THIS IS TEACHING!!! All levels, all abilities, and IEPs...that's how it's going to be for you, so if you can't figure out how to do it, then maybe the problem isn't with the IEP kids.

Well said. Again I'm so happy your not my son's teacher. I feel sorry for ALL your students.

 

[princessmom29]

How much time does it really take for her to help my son? Should my son be left behind since he doesn't want to take up any of the teachers time? I'm so fing glad my child isn't in your class and that he has teachers that actually care. His science teacher is an example of what you should be like. It's teachers like you that make it harder for my son to learn. He had a teacher like you last year. And bc of that he almost failed the class till they switched him to another class with the same teacher just with a caring person in there with him. And SHE helped him and he can go back to being the lazy bully he was. Teachers here are REQUIRED to have tutorials after school. Any student can go. So if my son goes and gets help and she takes the 10-15 min to help him or any other students in there that need the help is that really effecting your little precious child that wasn't born with a genetic disorder that makes it so hard for him to put down on paper what he's thinking. How long does it take her to take out a few questions of a test or reword a question or make one mulitply choice instead of fill in the blank? Since most teachers use the same book over and over again year after year I can bet she more than likely has a number of different tests already saved to make it easier on her. I pray my child never has to have another teacher like you that just doesn't give a dam.

Excuse me, but do you know me? Have you ever been in my classroom? Do you have any idea how much I do over and above what I have to? I don't think so. I do EVERYTHING I possibly can so that ALL of my students get everything they need, but the reality is that there comes a point when there are just not enough hours in the day to do it all. At some point someone suffers so that another can have what they need. It is the current reality with 35 kids in a class designed to max out at 20.

I am neither lazy, nor a bully. I am not saying that students don't need special accomodations or that I am not willing to provide them. I work hard to see to it that ALL of my students, specail needs or not have what they need to be successful, but I am not Superwoman. What I am saying is that it is unrealistic to beleive that at some point taking care of the needs of one student doesn't adversly effect another student, even when a teacher does everything she can to prevent it. IT DOES. I do my best to balance everyone's needs but at some point, something has to give. I only have so many hours to give, and beleive me I give MANY, MANY over and above what my contact says I have to. At some point I have to sleep and care for my own children and take som time to just breathe. It is diffcult to decide who gets how much of my time sometimes, and somebody inevitabley doesn't get enough.

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

Many people feel that's ok because those kids will be "productive members of society"....@@

Ha, ain't that the truth and absolutely puke worthy.

Here's a news flash. No matter how many "ballerina's" are good enough for the try out, on ONE becomes the "star" of the show. Many of your best and brightest won't be the best and brightest of them all and will, at some point, be shuffled back to average.

Your child's education is no more or less important than mine.

 

[princessmom29]

Well I have had kids in the public school system for 15 years, I have 6 kids, one who is special needs, two who are gifted. After discussing this with some teachers, who all struggle with time managment,NOT related to IEPs, I think maybe you need some help! B/C It sounds like you are having a hard time dealing with teaching, and BTW THIS IS TEACHING!!! All levels, all abilities, and IEPs...that's how it's going to be for you, so if you can't figure out how to do it, then maybe the problem isn't with the IEP kids.

No I am not struggling at all. I just wish parents would realize that teachers are not superhumans and sometimes they actually might just get a little overloaded. Everyone who has a job has days like that, and I think ti is more than a little condescending to assume the teacher is the problem. I am not stupid. Sorry you think so.

 

[princessmom29]

Well said. Again I'm so happy your not my son's teacher. I feel sorry for ALL your students.

don't they are all donig just fine. In fact many come back to visit me, let me know they are doing well, and thank me for everything I did for them. I thin kthey don't need your pity.

 

[SaraJayne]

Well said. Again I'm so happy your not my son's teacher. I feel sorry for ALL your students.

It seems your attitude is your son takes priority over other students, and who cares what other kids get screwed in the process.

A teacher only has so much time and resources. By focusing all of that extra time and resources on ONE student, of course it takes away from all the other ones.

I don't know how you can possibly argue that fact.

 

[princessmom29]

It seems your attitude is your son comes first, and who cares what other students get screwed in the process.

A teacher only has so much time and resources. By focusing all of that extra time and resources on ONE student, of course it takes away from all the other ones.

I don't know how you can possibly argue that fact.

THIS is the point I am trying to make! Resources are fintie, it is just the fact of the matter. When someone gains someone else loses. Money,time, whatever, it is just the way it is.

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

It seems your attitude is your son comes first, and who cares what other students get screwed in the process.

A teacher only has so much time and resources. By focusing all of that extra time and resources on ONE student, of course it takes away from all the other ones.

I don't know how you can possibly argue that fact.

If that is happening then the school needs to adjust what is going on in that classroom. They are supposed to have help for a child that would need that much attention in class. I can't tell you if that's available in this particular teacher's class or not.

If it isn't, it's something that needs to be addressed by the board or the state because that scenario isn't giving the child who needs the help NOR the other children in the class what they need.

 

[kissesbykim]

I've been lurking on this thread since it started....

I believe the conversation has turned very sad. It makes me want to write a letter to all the parents of kids in DS7's class and apologize that his cancer has made him miss so much school. It makes me want to apologize for his sensory disorder and intellectual disability. Fortunately, the parents I've met in our area are extremely supportive.

All parents want what is best for their children. I'm sorry that it's stated in my son's IEP and health report that the teacher needs to contact me (and use her free time) and let me know that there's a child in DS's class with chicken pox. I'm sorry that the SDC teacher interrupts the class for a split second to get DS and take him into the resource room so he can learn to read at the best of his ability. The truth is, it does take the teachers time to accommodate a child with LD or a health problem with a 504 or IEP. But it also takes time to deal with other children's issues as well. If Johnny is having difficulty figuring out a math problem (non IEP child) she has to take time away from the other students to help him too.

People on the other side of the argument....take a moment to imagine what it's like for a family who is already battling the school to get their child the OT or speech services he/she may need. The journey is not a easy one for parents. Especially with kids that also have very specific health needs as well. Personally, it feels like I'm always battling something.....doctors, health insurance or the school. Every parent wants the best for their child. If your child is doing so badly in school because of the teachers time management skills, maybe you need to address that to the school officials instead of coming to these boards and making the parents of SPED kids feel guilty that their child isn't perfect.

 

[princessmom29]

If that is happening then the school needs to adjust what is going on in that classroom. They are supposed to have help for a child that would need that much attention in class. I can't tell you if that's available in this particular teacher's class or not.

If it isn't, it's something that needs to be addressed by the board or the state because that scenario isn't giving the child who needs the help NOR the other children in the class what they need.

but what many don't understand is that this is common occurance. Much more common than anyone would like to admit becuase the money to provide aides simply isn't there in many disticts around the country. The reality of the situation is that disticts are having to make the choice between providing the aide and pushing class size to an unmangable level or overloading the one teacher so the others have reasonable class size. Which do you think they will choose??

 

[princessmom29]

I've been lurking on this thread since it started....

I believe the conversation has turned very sad. It makes me want to write a letter to all the parents of kids in DS7's class and apologize that his cancer has made him miss so much school. It makes me want to apologize for his sensory disorder and intellectual disability. Fortunately, the parents I've met in our area are extremely supportive.

All parents want what is best for their children. I'm sorry that it's stated in my son's IEP and health report that the teacher needs to contact me (and use her free time) and let me know that there's a child in DS's class with chicken pox. I'm sorry that the SDC teacher interrupts the class for a split second to get DS and take him into the resource room so he can learn to read at the best of his ability. The truth is, it does take the teachers time to accommodate a child with LD or a health problem with a 504 or IEP. But it also takes time to deal with other children's issues as well. If Johnny is having difficulty figuring out a math problem (non IEP child) she has to take time away from the other students to help him too.

People on the other side of the argument....take a moment to imagine what it's like for a family who is already battling the school to get their child the OT or speech services he/she may need. The journey is not a easy one for parents. Especially with kids that also have very specific health needs as well. Personally, it feels like I'm always battling something.....doctors, health insurance or the school. Every parent wants the best for their child. If your child is doing so badly in school because of the teachers time management skills, maybe you need to address that to the school officials instead of coming to these boards and making the parents of SPED kids feel guilty that their child isn't perfect.

there it is agian, blame the teacher. What ifthe teacher is doing everything she possibly can, manages the time she has perfectly, and there still are nto enough hours in the day to get it done??Who's fault is it then?? No one's. It just is, and it has to be dealt with, but to bury one's head in the sand and say no one is missing out is unrelaistic.

I honestly think that many of you don't know exactly how hard your children's teachers work or how thinly they are stretched. It is nto about time managment, it is about having time TO manage. Every teacher who has too mcuh to doesn't have "poor time managment skills". That is just aplatitude many use to make themselves feel better about dumping on teachers. Oh, she is having a hard time managing 30 K students, 5 of which are special needs, she must have no clue how to manage her time. Could it possibly be instead that she shouldn't have 30 K students by herself in the first pace???

 

[alaskanabbott]

No I am not struggling at all. I just wish parents would realize that teachers are not superhumans and sometimes they actually might just get a little overloaded. Everyone who has a job has days like that, and I think ti is more than a little condescending to assume the teacher is the problem. I am not stupid. Sorry you think so.

Well obviously you are not stupid, you are a teacher. I never called you stupid. I said I think you need to learn better time management skills, because this is what is involved with teaching. You will never have a perfect class of all average children. You will have the upper few, lower few, some in the middle and some with IEPs. My worry for you is that if it is overwhelming for you to teach ALL these students with their varying levels of abilities, maybe YOU need to be having a talk with your administrator. Or talk to some teachers who have been working with SpedEd longer and find out how they do it. See what everyone needs to understand is that the IEP shouldn't interfere with the educational process of the class and if it is, then there is a break down in the way the accommodations are being administered. That could be with the teacher, or with the admin., but should be addressed if you are seeing a disruption to the learning of the other students.
I also want to stress that the IEP/504 probably isn't the problem here, but an overall problem with either policy in the school, or a teachers inability to effectively integrate. Please do not read this as me saying "YOUR" fault, I'm saying it in a broad manner.

 

[Magic Mom]

It's only your business if it effects the learning of your child. But rather or not that child has an IEP isn't your bussiness only what is happening and what is being done to help. So IEP status makes no difference.

What affects my child's learning isn't any more your business than what affects your child's learning is my business. So I will advocate for my child regardless of how other parents feel.

 

[ReneeA]

My son needed speech therapy, and we couldn't get it until I got an IEP in place for him. That's all he needs - 1 hour of speech per week. He's not a drain on resources, he's not a distraction in the classroom, he's no more work than anyone else's little snowflake.

He was diagnosed with apraxia at 20 months (never made any sound at all up to that point - no crying, grunting, nothing.). We put him in an intensive speech therapy at 22 months, a special preschool at 3, and he finally made noise at just-shy of 4. Lots of time spent and lots and lots of $$$ spent out of my pocket. The program I had him in was fantastic, but the hours are M-Th 9-3. He's in school at that time, and I'm not willing to pull him out a couple hours a week in order to get him the therapy that he NEEDS (besides the school probably being against him missing that much).

He's a good kid, and I know for a fact that there are other kids in his school that have IEPs that aren't a drain on the teacher as well.

 

[kissesbykim]

there it is agian, blame the teacher. What ifthe teacher is doing everything she possibly can, manages the time she has perfectly, and there still are nto enough hours in the day to get it done??Who's fault is it then?? No one's. It just is, and it has to be dealt with, but to bury one's head in the sand and say no one is missing out is unrelaistic.

So then who are you blaming? The parents of SPED kiddos? What's your suggestions?

 

[princessmom29]

So then who are you blaming? The parents of SPED kiddos? What's your suggestions?

Didn't I say it was no one's fault??? If anyone I would blame those who continue to cut school bugets to the point that we cannot do what we need to do for our kids.

 

[Magic Mom]

My son needed speech therapy, and we couldn't get it until I got an IEP in place for him. That's all he needs - 1 hour of speech per week. He's not a drain on resources, he's not a distraction in the classroom, he's no more work than anyone else's little snowflake.

He was diagnosed with apraxia at 20 months (never made any sound at all up to that point - no crying, grunting, nothing.). We put him in an intensive speech therapy at 22 months, a special preschool at 3, and he finally made noise at just-shy of 4. Lots of time spent and lots and lots of $$$ spent out of my pocket. The program I had him in was fantastic, but the hours are M-Th 9-3. He's in school at that time, and I'm not willing to pull him out a couple hours a week in order to get him the therapy that he NEEDS (besides the school probably being against him missing that much).

He's a good kid, and I know for a fact that there are other kids in his school that have IEPs that aren't a drain on the teacher as well.

If you don't mind me asking, how much time do they get in school where you are for speech therapy. Here they don't get nearly enough time and the speech therapists are split between schools. The little bit of time they get with the therapist seems like a drop in the bucket for what they really need.