If your 9 y.o. snooped in their Christmas gifts - UPDATE post #96

[kellyg403]

OP here - I heard back from the Mom. Her explanation really makes a lot of sense to me. Here it is:


LOL, no problem, I don't mind telling you.

He ABSOLUTELY will not be getting those gifts (the ones that were returned), or any replacements, for the holiday. There were three gifts hidden in a different place in the house that he didn't see, so he'll get those. But that's it. And if he'd seen those, he'd be getting nothing from us. He gets things from other family members/friends, obviously, but I'll be doing nothing beyond what I did already.

He's 9. He knows better. It isn't even that he snooped at his presents, it's that he was VERY underhanded in how he managed to go snoop, and then tried to lie about why he was in the bedroom, and what he was/wasn't doing (said he wasn't looking at presents, that he was looking for the cat, but yet he turned on the fan AND the shower in the bathroom to pretend he was doing his normal evening routine and avoid any suspicion. Sneaky.).

As I explained to him, life and family is about trust. If I can't trust you to respect me as a parent, and my room as my space, I can't reward you with presents. And if I can't count on you to tell the truth when you are caught red handed, well then, that's a whole other problem. Plus, the presents wouldn't be a surprise, so there's no point in giving them.

I know, it sounds tough... it IS a tough punishment. But I think it will be a punishment that he remembers. When he was at the service desk returning his gifts, he had to tell the clerk why he was returning them and she nodded and said that she remembered her brother having to do the same thing as a child, and that neither he nor any of her siblings EVER snooped for gifts again. If he doesn't snoop, it will be a bonus, but if he has some more respect for privacy and personal space, I'll consider the lesson to have been a success.

Mom's side does make sense. I hadn't even thought about the personal space thing...he will in about 4 years though!

Still not feeling good about the public humiliation part, but the rest I am o.k. with. I agree that sometimes, the easy road gets used too much. The road of a mother is full of guilt..I would rather feel guilty that I was too harsh at 9 or 10 or 12 then at 35 sitting in a courtroom.

Kelly

 

[jodifla]

Thanks for updating. After hearing the mom's further explanation I think she did do the right thing. I'm truly amazed that there are people here who think she is cruel and awful because she follows through and expects her 9 year old to be responsible for his actions. Yes, he is a child but at what point doesn't he get away with things like this, at what point should he learn a lesson? If you wait too long then you have little snowflakes on your hand, those same snowflakes that 75% of the moms on this board complain about everyday.

Maybe if there were more moms like this one, we would see more kids who are respectful, who have manners, and alot less spoiled rotten brats who think they deserve everything and get it just because they want it because their parents are too busy being their friend and not being their parent.

There are other, far better ways to handle this situation. And being a cruel jerk to your kids DOESN'T create "better" kids.

 

[robinb]

After hearing the mom's further explanation I think she did do the right thing.

I still vote for nasty, cruel whack-a-doodle . So her son was "underhanded" and "sneaky" in his snooping? Big deal! Snooping and sneaky go hand-in-hand. She talks about trust and respect in her family. Respect is earned just the same as trust. He may have lost her trust in lying but I don't think her punishment really did much in the way of earning genuine respect. Fear? Oh yeah. Respect? Not so much.

She's correct about one thing, though. He will never snoop again.

 

[luvmy3]

There are other, far better ways to handle this situation. And being a cruel jerk to your kids DOESN'T create "better" kids.

I still vote for nasty, cruel whack-a-doodle . So her son was "underhanded" and "sneaky" in his snooping? Big deal! Snooping and sneaky go hand-in-hand. She talks about trust and respect in her family. Respect is earned just the same as trust. He may have lost her trust in lying but I don't think her punishment really did much in the way of earning genuine respect. Fear? Oh yeah. Respect? Not so much.

She's correct about one thing, though. He will never snoop again.

What would be cruel is if that mother let him open the gifts at Christmas morning and then take them away and then make him return them.
Being a jerk would be her not giving him any other gifts that she had hidden.
Instilling fear would be if she took the belt to his bare behind and whacked him a few times because of his snooping and lying.
Cruel? Jerk, ? Fear?
Not really, its called real discipline, and thank God there are still parents who believe in it and stick to it .

 

[jodifla]

What would be cruel is if that mother let him open the gifts at Christmas morning and then take them away and then make him return them.
Being a jerk would be her not giving him any other gifts that she had hidden.
Instilling fear would be if she took the belt to his bare behind and whacked him a few times because of his snooping and lying.
Cruel? Jerk, ? Fear?
Not really, its called real discipline, and thank God there are still parents who believe in it and stick to it .

Yep, yep and yep.

Plenty of parents manage to raise great kids without the cruelty.

 

[QVCshopper]

This seems to take the spirit out of Christmas, making it just focused on gifts and getting. It's kinda sad. Snooping and lying aside, I think the family needs to refocus their efforts on spending time together and enjoying each other.

That said, I kept my gifts in a closet and the kids were allowed to look at them since July, until Dec., when Santa's elves came to take them to the North Pole. I don't see why the mom said "the gifts are not a surprise, so what's the point anyway"? Whether or not they are a surprise, they will be appreciated. I have bought my own gifts from hubbie for years; the season is about sharing and loving, not about being vindictive to teach a lesson. Oh well.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Her update doesn't impress me. I still think her behavior is despicable and cruel.

There are other, far better ways to handle this situation. And being a cruel jerk to your kids DOESN'T create "better" kids.

I still vote for nasty, cruel whack-a-doodle . So her son was "underhanded" and "sneaky" in his snooping? Big deal! Snooping and sneaky go hand-in-hand. She talks about trust and respect in her family. Respect is earned just the same as trust. He may have lost her trust in lying but I don't think her punishment really did much in the way of earning genuine respect. Fear? Oh yeah. Respect? Not so much.

She's correct about one thing, though. He will never snoop again.

Yep, yep and yep.

Plenty of parents manage to raise great kids without the cruelty.

The kid is 9!!!!!!! What did she think the kid was going to when snooping? Call his Mom to come with him? Was the snooping right? No. Do you think any kid is going to come clean immediately when being caught doing something they shouldn't be especially when their Mom is such a militant moron? I doubt it. Truthfully I think that Mom is setting herself up for failure. That kid will not learn anything from this other than to be stealthier so he doesn't get caught by his psycho mother. I feel bad for the kid.

 

[jodifla]

The kid is 9!!!!!!! What did she think the kid was going to when snooping? Call his Mom to come with him? Was the snooping right? No. Do you think any kid is going to come clean immediately when being caught doing something they shouldn't be especially when their Mom is such a militant moron? I doubt it. Truthfully I think that Mom is setting herself up for failure. That kid will not learn anything from this other than to be stealthier so he doesn't get caught by his psycho mother. I feel bad for the kid.

Exactly!

And none of us are saying, "Go buy him all new toys so he's not disappointed."

He's already robbed himself of the surprise. Just stick the toys under the tree and you've got your "lesson." That's the natural consequence.

The problem with the mom's -- well, one of many problems -- approach is now he gets to bey angry at her. The first way, he can only blame himself.

 

[luvmy3]

I'm a parent who believes 9 year olds know right from wrong and are old enough to face the consequences of their actions. Some of you may feel that disrespecting the parents space and snooping, being sneaky and then lying don't deserve harsh discipline, but I do. My 6 year old is a story teller, and I am teaching him that he will get in more trouble for lying than the offense he is lying about. At his age had he done this I probably wouldn't do what the mom did because he is still learning, but if my 9 or 11 year old had, I would probably do the same. And quess what, I have great kids, as I'm sure you do. They don't snoop at Christmas time, they don't sneak around and they respect our rules as well as the rules in other people's homes. What this mother did isn't a guarantee that this child will become even more sneakier and a better liar when he knows he's wrong, just as your lack of harsh discipline for your children won't always result in the snowflake entitlement mentality.

 

[mjkacmom]

I'm a parent who believes 9 year olds know right from wrong and are old enough to face the consequences of their actions. Some of you may feel that disrespecting the parents space and snooping, being sneaky and then lying don't deserve harsh discipline, but I do. My 6 year old is a story teller, and I am teaching him that he will get in more trouble for lying than the offense he is lying about. At his age had he done this I probably wouldn't do what the mom did because he is still learning, but if my 9 or 11 year old had, I would probably do the same. And quess what, I have great kids, as I'm sure you do. They don't snoop at Christmas time, they don't sneak around and they respect our rules as well as the rules in other people's homes. What this mother did isn't a guarantee that this child will become even more sneakier and a better liar when he knows he's wrong, just as your lack of harsh discipline for your children won't result in the snowflake entitlement mentality.

A six year old doesn't snoop because he or she believes in santa! My 8 1/2 year old believes in santa, so she's not snooping. And how do you know your kids don't snoop?! Maybe they just haven't been caught yet. The harshness of a punishment should equal the crime, and since I'm guessing the majority of children who no longer believe in santa snoop, this seems to be a minor incident (and I don't know of a single 9 year old who would fess up right away). Christmas is such a special holiday for children - why ruin it when there are SO many other punishments she could've come up with.

 

[lecach]

lecach-
Not to change the subject, but pease tell me about the bacon! My youngest, at four and beyond, would have loved getting bacon as a gift. In fact, I think he'd still love it and he's almost 21!!

He got it last year - so who KNOWS what he'll get this year!

Here is the story:

MIL is known for giving odd but useful gifts. My DH and I got toilet paper, paper towels, dish soap, crock pot liners, Lance crackers, and gift cards to restaurants last year.

Apparently one time DS said he liked bacon. He was four - he liked corn dogs too MIL is on a budget and had given him money for his college fund and got him one toy. But she wanted him to have more to unwrap. So she wrapped up two boxes of cereal and two boxes of Oscar Meyer pre-cooked bacon. . Poor kid was so confused. And the thing was, the bacon had an exp. date of January 17. She thought we were going to eat 2 full boxes of bacon in 3 weeks? Most of it got thrown away.

At least most of what she gives IS useful. Better than what we used to get - she'd go out the day after Christmas and get Holiday decor on clearance. Then that's what we'd receive the next year. Most of it was truly hideous - the worst was a set of stuffed bears dressed in barbershop outfits. They sang Christmas songs like a barbershop quartet and they are REALLY loud.

 

[It'sWDW4me]

What would be cruel is if that mother let him open the gifts at Christmas morning and then take them away and then make him return them.
Being a jerk would be her not giving him any other gifts that she had hidden.
Instilling fear would be if she took the belt to his bare behind and whacked him a few times because of his snooping and lying.
Cruel? Jerk, ? Fear?
Not really, its called real discipline, and thank God there are still parents who believe in it and stick to it .

ITA. I find it such a shame that there are so few parents who have the fortitude for the "once and done" lesson. I'm talking about the egregious offenses (lying and deceit are BIG ones for me) not the "kids will be kids" offenses. Snooping, IMHO, is a KWBK offense of which the lack of surprise/anticipation on Christmas morning would suffice as a "punishment". Going out of your way to deceive (turning on the shower and fan) someone and then lying about it when caught red-handed is egregious. What this kid, hopefully, learned is that he can not deceive or lie to his mom - don't even think about trying it again because there will be a drastic consequence.

I hate punishing my son. I want him to have/do everything that makes him happy. More than that, though, I want for him to be a responsible, respectable, and respectful adult. The means to this end are not always enjoyable on the parent's or the child's part.

 

[DawnM]

Just not worth arguing. I will not be changing my opinion and prob. none of you will either. I have deleted my previous post.

 

[luvmy3]

A six year old doesn't snoop because he or she believes in santa! My 8 1/2 year old believes in santa, so she's not snooping. And how do you know your kids don't snoop?! Maybe they just haven't been caught yet. The harshness of a punishment should equal the crime, and since I'm guessing the majority of children who no longer believe in santa snoop, this seems to be a minor incident (and I don't know of a single 9 year old who would fess up right away). Christmas is such a special holiday for children - why ruin it when there are SO many other punishments she could've come up with.

My children don't snoop because they respect the rules of our home. When I tell them they are not allowed to play in my room, they don't go in it. When I tell them to stay out of the office closet, they don't go in it, when I tell them to not go in the laundry room, they don't go in it. Why? Because they know that they would be caught and have consequences to face because they have always had to face consequences for their actions. Thats the thing about discipline, if its always done then kids actually learn from it

As far as ruining it, nothing was ruined. That child found gifts that did not yet belong to him. They were still property of the mom in places where he wasn't supposed to be. He wouldn't have even known he WAS getting them had he not snooped. He still has other gifts to open and will still have his Christmas morning. He may not get everything he wanted, and that he thought he was getting but thats a lesson of life. If he feels he ruined his own Christmas by snooping and lying maybe we won't do it next year.

 

[luvmy3]

ITA. I find it such a shame that there are so few parents who have the fortitude for the "once and done" lesson. I'm talking about the agregious offenses (lying and deceipt are BIG ones for me) not the "kids will be kids" offenses. Snooping, IMHO, is a KWBK offense of which the lack of surprise/anticipation on Christmas morning would suffice as a "punishment". Going out of your way to deceive (turning on the shower and fan) someone and then lying about it when caught red-handed is agregious. What this kid, hopefully, learned is that he can not deceive or lie to his mom - don't even think about trying it again because there will be a drastic consequence.

I hate punishing my son. I want him to have/do everything that makes him happy. More than that, though, I want for him to be a responsible, respectable, and respectful adult. The means to this end are not always enjoyable on the parent's or the child's part.

Exactly. I was raised by a very strict parent and can say that growing up I hated all the rules, I was often in trouble for breaking them, but now that I am grown I am so thankful that I had them and I respect what my Father did for me. I owe my children the same.

 

[Zeebs]

Aaaa! The silently supporting friends. If they don't speak up, then how will the rest of us know what they think? Sorry, silent support is all fine and good for you but I can only listen to the people who actually speak up.

And exactly what is he supposed to say ? "Yeah mom, that still kinda hurts." OF COURSE he's going to tell you it is no big deal. Any loving son would and I have no doubt that he loves you.

I will stick up for her and also state that not everyone in the world is obviously as sensitive as you clearly are.

Some times people don't just hold onto stuff and let it turn them into emotional messes.

For example..... I was bullied a lot at school. Do I use this as an excuse for everything that goes wrong in my life. No it was at school it was a long time ago and I have moved on. Did it affect me yes, but I used it in a positive way. Some people don't let it run their life while others will let it cloud everything they do.

The majority of mothers on here, know their kids well. If the child is a sensative type of child then I suspect the punishment would have been different. As a parent, the majority of us, do what we know will have the best lesson teaching effect on said child.

Years ago I was working as a shop assistant and a mother brought her child in who had taken something from the shop, she made him return it in person and say sorry. How would you deal with that situation, that would be public humilation according to you. The boy was so upset about 1. being caught and 2. having to return it but I bet he never ever does it again.

Kirsten

 

[Mouse House Mama]

I will stick up for her and also state that not everyone in the world is obviously as sensitive as you clearly are.

Some times people don't just hold onto stuff and let it turn them into emotional messes.

For example..... I was bullied a lot at school. Do I use this as an excuse for everything that goes wrong in my life. No it was at school it was a long time ago and I have moved on. Did it affect me yes, but I used it in a positive way. Some people don't let it run their life while others will let it cloud everything they do.

The majority of mothers on here, know their kids well. If the child is a sensative type of child then I suspect the punishment would have been different. As a parent, the majority of us, do what we know will have the best lesson teaching effect on said child.

Years ago I was working as a shop assistant and a mother brought her child in who had taken something from the shop, she made him return it in person and say sorry. How would you deal with that situation, that would be public humilation according to you. The boy was so upset about 1. being caught and 2. having to return it but I bet he never ever does it again.
Kirsten

Apples and oranges. I would have done the same in that situation.

I teach my children respect. I do not under any circumstances put up with lying and being sneaky. I do make the punishment fit the crime though. I don't need to go so over the top that the message is lost. Yes, at 9 they know right from wrong. They are still learning though. Would YOU treat your own mother that way if you caught her snooping in the house? I doubt it but yet you (a general you) want to make a federal case out of something that simply isn't. There are many ways to punish for this particular offense without acting like a tyrant. Yes- it is my job to teach my children right from wrong. NO- I am not creating snowflakes. I just don't think you need to treat your children like animals to get your point across.
If this woman smacked her kid people would be all over her like white on rice. What she did imo is of the same caliber. So she didn't physically beat him but she may as well have. She went above and beyond public humiliation (which isn't always a bad thing). She treated him cruely and viciously.
I still say it was because he ruined HER Christmas because she couldn't surprise him and it was all about HER. I think she is nuts.

 

[Hillbeans]

There are other, far better ways to handle this situation. And being a cruel jerk to your kids DOESN'T create "better" kids.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[luvmy3]

For all of you that feel this punishment is cruel and visious and bordering on abuse, just how would have you disciplined. Please explain, I'd like to know what kind of offense lying is in your home, and just what actions you take to teach your child how wrong they were in this situation? Or do you not even think they were even wrong at all because *all* kids snoop and *all* kids lie to get out of trouble?

I'll tell you mine.
In my house lying is like a capital offense, and my kids know it. I have instilled (and still trying with my youngest) that lying about what ever you have done will always result in more trouble. I teach them that we can always get through the offense, it may be something that we can work on, or it may be something that requires punishment. However they know that if they choose to lie then all bets are off, we do not tolerate lying about anything, period. Contrary to what some may think this does, my 2 kids rarely lie, and I have only a handful of times have to discipline in a way that could be considered harsh. Now since I have spent the last 11 years trying to instill this into my children, just what would happen if I suddenly just let it go? If I was the mom in the OP, and said well "its okay most kids snoop and don't want to get caught, just don't do it again?". "Since its Christmas, the only punishment you will have is that you won't be surprised".
On top of showing my child that I am a hypocrit who doesn't stand behind her teachings, I would be telling my child that hey its okay to lie when they think it would get them out of trouble, I would be teaching them that they can do as they please because the rules don't always have to apply to them. I am not about to raise my children to believe that, thats what makes those kids we all complain about here
So IMO the punishment fit the crime (I do admit that I would not have had the child explain to the clerk why he was bringing the toys back) but they would definitely go back. I would not reward a behavior that I have taught my children was wrong. Of course YMMV.

What I find ironic about this whole thing, being its about Christmas presents is that we put much emphasis about being good so Santa doesn't bring coal. Yet here we have an example of someone on the naughty list who in comparison is getting coal (by not getting ALL is gifts), and theres a problem with it. Its okay to teach our children that fictional characters don't reward for naughtiness, yet when real parents do it its cruel

 

[Zeebs]

Apples and oranges. I would have done the same in that situation.

I teach my children respect. I do not under any circumstances put up with lying and being sneaky. I do make the punishment fit the crime though. I don't need to go so over the top that the message is lost. Yes, at 9 they know right from wrong. They are still learning though. Would YOU treat your own mother that way if you caught her snooping in the house? I doubt it but yet you (a general you) want to make a federal case out of something that simply isn't. There are many ways to punish for this particular offense without acting like a tyrant. Yes- it is my job to teach my children right from wrong. NO- I am not creating snowflakes. I just don't think you need to treat your children like animals to get your point across.
If this woman smacked her kid people would be all over her like white on rice. What she did imo is of the same caliber. So she didn't physically beat him but she may as well have. She went above and beyond public humiliation (which isn't always a bad thing). She treated him cruely and viciously.
I still say it was because he ruined HER Christmas because she couldn't surprise him and it was all about HER. I think she is nuts.

I guess it all just comes down to what peoples punishment/crime level is. I personally don't think that the Mum is making a federal case of out it. Would I have done it this way, probably not but then I also don't know if this is some type of repeat offender of a child, what transpired before the child found the gift etc. What would you have done if your child had done this?

With regards to the child I mentioned having to return the item that they took. Would it make any difference to you to know that the item taken was a stone from a water feature.

Again this would be an example of crime/punishment level some people would say that isn't worth making a massive deal about while others would have done what the parent did.

I guess I just can't understand why everyone thinks that their parenting style is the correct way of doing it and therefore all other options are terrible parents styles that are clearly going to damage the child beyond repair.

You are also right about if the mother had smacked the child everyone would be all over them. That said though you would have to be an idiot to admit to smacking your child on one of these forums unless you are very thick skinned.

Kirsten