If your 9 y.o. snooped in their Christmas gifts - UPDATE post #96

[EveDallas]

I still think it is an over-reaction.

 

[brockash]

Her update doesn't impress me. I still think her behavior is despicable and cruel.

I agree, I just don't get it. I mean had mom/dad done a better job at hiding the presents, this wouldv'e never happened in the first place. I mean, the kid is 9, of course he's going to try to find his presents that he knows are in the house- isn't that half the point when you're 9. Heck, I know adults that still do that. I don't know, I just don't get it, and feel very badly for the child, not because he's not getting more presents, but because of the nature of the entire situation.

 

[luvsJack]

I found some presents once by mistake, and it was ROTTEN. We had a tiny house and a station wagon...not much space for hiding presents, and one time I ran across them. From then on I purposely avoided that area, and disliked going into that cabinet other times of the year b/c I felt so sad.

So snooping is NOT a universally fun thing.



Maybe you're responding to things I missed. But if you're responding to the OP's parent-friend's situation...there's nothing given to the kid, it hasn't been taken away. And breaking rules causing a reaction isn't a whim. You break rules, you face consequences. It's not a whim.

A whim would be having presents taken away and donated 6 months after xmas...that's the sort of thing hubby's mom might have done. It's quite different from just not getting what you snooped and saw.

I am NOT a punitive parent at all, I'm an explaining parent...and DS is 5 and this year I've been letting him know that we don't go looking around for things at this time of year. He's actually doing it with me...he and hubby hid my present in DS's closet, and DS won't even let me in his room right now! He doesn't know I know, but he definitely knows he doesn't want me to snoop around! So this is the foundation for "no snoopping around for presents", and the rule will become more clear as he goes into 6 and older...and if he looks around for presents at 9 he will *absolutely* know what the rule was that he broke, and what the consequences are.



In our house, lying is a tricky one. DH's parents over-punished and REFUSED to believe DH when he told the truth, and DH remembers the very moment that he became "the liar of the family". Because he was "the liar", his siblings got away with huge lies and they were never suspected. Meanwhile, hubby would lie about anything and everything, even though he knew he would get caught, b/c there was always the possibility he wouldn't and he'd get away with whatever petty offense he had lied about.

So, are you saying that because it wasn't a fun thing to you that it should be a punishable crime to children?

I just don't see it as that serious.

The kid snooped, he ruined his surprise (or didn't, depends on how you look at it). So what? What if a kid accidentally come upon his gifts? What is he supposed to do then?

But, whichever; its just not such a big deal as to go hauling his gifts back to the store and going through this huge bit of drama with the clerk.

The lying? Yes, more serious. Take away 5 days of TV and be done with it.

No matter what, I just firmly believe the woman overreacted.

 

[Leajess99]

What would be cruel is if that mother let him open the gifts at Christmas morning and then take them away and then make him return them.
Being a jerk would be her not giving him any other gifts that she had hidden.
Instilling fear would be if she took the belt to his bare behind and whacked him a few times because of his snooping and lying.
Cruel? Jerk, ? Fear?
Not really, its called real discipline, and thank God there are still parents who believe in it and stick to it .

Very good post. Too bad so many here tend to want to be friends rather than instill real discipline (did not say abuse) but discipline. I learned a long time ago with my son that discipline goes a long way when I watched a child about 7 or so telling his mom she needed to hurry up and she was apologizing to the child. Heck no, that is not appropriate behavior. Being sneaky and lying can lead to severe consequences from the action itself. Take for example the football players that snuck into the pool at the local fitness place. One football player jumped off the diving board and never surfaced. 16 or 17 years old and dead because he was sneaking around. Guess what?? Parents filed suit against the fitness place. Maybe had the parents kept a better eye on their child and taught them better he would not have been "sneaking" into a pool at midnight and drowning.

I'm not saying all kids that are sneaky will break the law but maybe those finding this woman's behavior so horrible should go to juvenile detention centers/youth development centers and ask some of the youth there what happened. Many were just being "sneaky" while breaking the law.

 

[Leajess99]

A six year old doesn't snoop because he or she believes in santa! My 8 1/2 year old believes in santa, so she's not snooping. And how do you know your kids don't snoop?! Maybe they just haven't been caught yet. The harshness of a punishment should equal the crime, and since I'm guessing the majority of children who no longer believe in santa snoop, this seems to be a minor incident (and I don't know of a single 9 year old who would fess up right away). Christmas is such a special holiday for children - why ruin it when there are SO many other punishments she could've come up with.

There are numerous 6 year olds that do not believe in Santa Claus for one reason or another. Some families do not lead their children to believe in Santa while other kids are wise beyond on their years while many have lost the belief thanks to older children at school or at home. My kids have not snooped and they are 16 (17 in 2 months), 11 and 6. They don't snoop because they like the surprise factor. The older ones know what the little one is getting and they won't tell her because they don't want to ruin the surprise. I'm not sure she truely believes in Santa anymore but I do know the older ones played along by writing their letters to Santa as well so she would believe for a little longer. The kids have all heard it at school that Santa is not real.

 

[Leajess99]

Exactly. I was raised by a very strict parent and can say that growing up I hated all the rules, I was often in trouble for breaking them, but now that I am grown I am so thankful that I had them and I respect what my Father did for me. I owe my children the same.

I can so agree here. I see grown adults caught up in lie after lie and it really worries me to know their children are learning the same behaviors. My kids are by no means perfect but they know there are harsher consequences for lying and sneaking around than there are for being honest with me.

 

[Leajess99]

Years ago I was working as a shop assistant and a mother brought her child in who had taken something from the shop, she made him return it in person and say sorry. How would you deal with that situation, that would be public humilation according to you. The boy was so upset about 1. being caught and 2. having to return it but I bet he never ever does it again.

Kirsten

I know a mom who should have taught her son this way but instead chose to let him go to another store by himslef where he stole gum and is being prosecuted. Even she does not want to take responsibility so she just skipped his court meeting. I'm sure when the kid is finally taken to the court the judge will like the excuse given.

 

[Kennywife]

I still vote for nasty, cruel whack-a-doodle . So her son was "underhanded" and "sneaky" in his snooping? Big deal! Snooping and sneaky go hand-in-hand. She talks about trust and respect in her family. Respect is earned just the same as trust. He may have lost her trust in lying but I don't think her punishment really did much in the way of earning genuine respect. Fear? Oh yeah. Respect? Not so much.

She's correct about one thing, though. He will never snoop again.

ITA. There's ways to teach respect that don't involve humiliating the kid.
I mean, OMG. A 9 year old snooped in his Christmas gifts! Alert the media! Honestly, the kid is 9. Did this woman actually think her kid wouldn't snoop? Does she think he'll be perfect at all times? Cause I've got some swampland in Florida I'm dying to get rid of...

Trust me, my mom had the "My child has to be perfect and never do anything wrong or my life is over syndrome." I tried to live up to my mom's incredibly high standards and then, went off to college.... As for snooping, He**, I snoop and I'm 32. He won't snoop, he also won't ever trust her again. I lost my trust in my mother years ago.

 

[luvsJack]

ITA. There's ways to teach respect that don't involve humiliating the kid.
I mean, OMG. A 9 year old snooped in his Christmas gifts! Alert the media! Honestly, the kid is 9. Did this woman actually think her kid wouldn't snoop? Does she think he'll be perfect at all times? Cause I've got some swampland in Florida I'm dying to get rid of...

Trust me, my mom had the "My child has to be perfect and never do anything wrong or my life is over syndrome." I tried to live up to my mom's incredibly high standards and then, went off to college.... As for snooping, He**, I snoop and I'm 32. He won't snoop, he also won't ever trust her again. I lost my trust in my mother years ago.

ITA!!! Trust is a two way street and a child should be able to trust their parent too.

Your comment about living up to mom's standards and then going off to college is sooo right on target for many, many young people. Its like all of sudden you don't have to try and be perfect anymore and BOY do they go the other way!





Discipline is important, I don't think anyone that thinks this woman was over the top has said it isn't. I don't think anyone was saying that they let their child run wild in the streets! But, as a lot keep saying, there was no reason to humiliate the boy; either. There were other, less drastic, ways to handle his lying.

 

[Zeebs]

ITA. There's ways to teach respect that don't involve humiliating the kid.
I mean, OMG. A 9 year old snooped in his Christmas gifts! Alert the media! Honestly, the kid is 9. Did this woman actually think her kid wouldn't snoop? Does she think he'll be perfect at all times? Cause I've got some swampland in Florida I'm dying to get rid of...

Trust me, my mom had the "My child has to be perfect and never do anything wrong or my life is over syndrome." I tried to live up to my mom's incredibly high standards and then, went off to college.... As for snooping, He**, I snoop and I'm 32. He won't snoop, he also won't ever trust her again. I lost my trust in my mother years ago.

But then again how would he ever trust her if she had told him that if he was caught snooping then he would return the presents and wouldn't get them this christmas and didn't follow that through.

It just appears that everyone assumes that the mother wandered in and caught the child and then made him take presents back. We just don't know what transpired previously.

If he wasn't warned then yes I think it was a bit harsh, although I don't think it will scar him for life.

If he was warned and still did it and then lied and knew if he got caught what was going to happen then I think it was appropriate.

With regards to the snooping, to those who don't think it is a bit deal (and I am actually in that camp) that is great but the rule in some houses is that you don't, right of passage or not, if it is important to that family then it is important and it shouldn't be up for strangers to decide what is important or not in someone elses house. What is important in my house will be totally different to what is important in someone elses house.

Kirsten

 

[luvsJack]

But then again how would he ever trust her if she had told him that if he was caught snooping then he would return the presents and wouldn't get them this christmas and didn't follow that through.

It just appears that everyone assumes that the mother wandered in and caught the child and then made him take presents back. We just don't know what transpired previously.

If he wasn't warned then yes I think it was a bit harsh, although I don't think it will scar him for life.

If he was warned and still did it and then lied and knew if he got caught what was going to happen then I think it was appropriate.

With regards to the snooping, to those who don't think it is a bit deal (and I am actually in that camp) that is great but the rule in some houses is that you don't, right of passage or not, if it is important to that family then it is important and it shouldn't be up for strangers to decide what is important or not in someone elses house. What is important in my house will be totally different to what is important in someone elses house.

Kirsten

For myself, its not that I think she shouldn't have followed through. Being consistent and following through are what is most important in disciplining a child. I just think it was too harsh--she could have "followed through" in another way.

Also, if snooping was such a big deal, maybe it would be a good idea to find somewhere to keep the gifts that didn't present the problem (like someone else's house!)

 

[Mouse House Mama]

I still say that this was all about the mother. She was mad because her own holiday was ruined. Meaning she couldn't surprise her kid so she would show him how mad she was. That is what I get from this.
Sure- I would have punished my child for lying and even for snooping. Not because I think it is the end of the world snooping but if it was a deliberate snoop combined with sneaky lying then I would have to address that. I would never take away a holiday like that though. Sorry but that is so over the top that my heart breaks for this child. Every Christmas that child will remember what happened and that wound will be opened again. Humility is good but humiliation is not.
Have you every screwed up and it was an annual event and every year there was someone who had to bring it up because they thought it was funny (now that it was over and corrected etc.) but you did not? Didn't you feel embarrassed each and every time? I would never do that to any person. Those are the things that take away self esteem and teach nothing but shame. Christmas happens every year. Every year this child will be reminded of this horrible event. You know that Mom is going to tell the kid "Remember what happened when you snooped! Don't do that again or it will happen again!" and while on some level she is right to remind her child that lying etc. is never good- she took that punishment so far that every year that child will be embarrassed at the mention of it. The lesson is lost. All she did was shame him. Give it a few years when the kid no longer wants to celebrate Christmas because she made a poor choice of punishment and keeps reminding him of it. Then she will be posting how sad she is that her son has no Christmas spirit.
My heart breaks for the child- not because he lied and that is okay- but because his mom is over the top.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Terribly harsh. I couldn't do that to a child.

 

[robinb]

Christmas happens every year. Every year this child will be reminded of this horrible event. You know that Mom is going to tell the kid "Remember what happened when you snooped! Don't do that again or it will happen again!" and while on some level she is right to remind her child that lying etc. is never good- she took that punishment so far that every year that child will be embarrassed at the mention of it.

ITA. I see that many people toss around 'He won't be scarred for life!" but you know ... I'm not so sure. Not only did the mom ruin THIS Christmas but in a sense she may have ruined all Christmases after. If that isn't "scarred", what is? The ironic thing is that she appears to set a very high value in Christmas and the gift giving tradition.

 

[-Hope-]

I wasn't going to but I can't resist putting my two cents in here. I think that this mother believes she is doing the right thing, most parents, whether we agree with them or not, believe that what they are choosing at any given moment is the best thing for their child in that moment. This mother may regret this decision some day but for now it seems that this is what she feels is best. I'm sure she loves her son very much and feels strongly about him being honest and trustworthy.

That being said I disagree with her. Not only because I think the punishment is too harsh but because I believe it is counter-productive to her overall goal. I don't think this child is going to learn to be more honest and in fact will learn to be more sneaky AND less trusting of his mom. When I'm in doubt in a situation as a parent I look back to my own childhood and try to remember WHY I did the things I did, and HOW I felt at the time, and WHAT the lasting impression of the moment was. Keeping those things in mind I have repeatedly come to the same conclusion- I didn't learn a lot from the punishments OR the rewards my parents doled out when I was kid. What I learned the most from was how we treated each other. If you want kids to respect you then you treat with respect. If you want kids to be trustworthy and honest then you have to be trustworthy and honest with them. If you want kids to respond with love and understanding when you make mistakes then you must respond this way to their mistakes. I don't think this mother has been respectful, trustworthy or understanding with her son so I don't think he's going to learn those things from this situation. JMHO

And just to clarify- I had this EXACT same thing happen this year and handled it in a COMPLETELY different way. My nine year old dd was caught snooping at grandma and granpa's house and then claimed to have been looking for something else in the room. I could tell by the look on her face that her lie was because of embarrassment at being caught doing something wrong- she didn't want to diminish the adults view of her. When I hugged her and told her about the time I snooped when I was about her age and my mom chimed in with her own snooping story from childhood my daughter's fears were comforted and she knew she could be honest. She came clean 100% and she was reassured that our love is unconditional. We also talked about why its disappointing when kids snoop and why they shouldn't do it. We explained that as grown ups our fun isn't from getting presents that its from giving them and we get joy from seeing her face when she gets her Christmas surprise. She completely understood this reasoning and was very apologetic, promising not to snoop anymore- which she hasn't!

I'm sure there are those who believe I was too lienient and that's okay- like I said, we are all just trying to do the best we can in this very moment and only time will tell what choices were the right ones. All I know is that TODAY I feel good about the way I handled it. I think my daughter learned not only not to snoop but why it is important in the context of respecting other people's pleasure as much as her own.

 

[luvsJack]

I wasn't going to but I can't resist putting my two cents in here. I think that this mother believes she is doing the right thing, most parents, whether we agree with them or not, believe that what they are choosing at any given moment is the best thing for their child in that moment. This mother may regret this decision some day but for now it seems that this is what she feels is best. I'm sure she loves her son very much and feels strongly about him being honest and trustworthy.

That being said I disagree with her. Not only because I think the punishment is too harsh but because I believe it is counter-productive to her overall goal. I don't think this child is going to learn to be more honest and in fact will learn to be more sneaky AND less trusting of his mom. When I'm in doubt in a situation as a parent I look back to my own childhood and try to remember WHY I did the things I did, and HOW I felt at the time, and WHAT the lasting impression of the moment was. Keeping those things in mind I have repeatedly come to the same conclusion- I didn't learn a lot from the punishments OR the rewards my parents doled out when I was kid. What I learned the most from was how we treated each other. If you want kids to respect you then you treat with respect. If you want kids to be trustworthy and honest then you have to be trustworthy and honest with them. If you want kids to respond with love and understanding when you make mistakes then you must respond this way to their mistakes. I don't think this mother has been respectful, trustworthy or understanding with her son so I don't think he's going to learn those things from this situation. JMHO

And just to clarify- I had this EXACT same thing happen this year and handled it in a COMPLETELY different way. My nine year old dd was caught snooping at grandma and granpa's house and then claimed to have been looking for something else in the room. I could tell by the look on her face that her lie was because of embarrassment at being caught doing something wrong- she didn't want to diminish the adults view of her. When I hugged her and told her about the time I snooped when I was about her age and my mom chimed in with her own snooping story from childhood my daughter's fears were comforted and she knew she could be honest. She came clean 100% and she was reassured that our love is unconditional. We also talked about why its disappointing when kids snoop and why they shouldn't do it. We explained that as grown ups our fun isn't from getting presents that its from giving them and we get joy from seeing her face when she gets her Christmas surprise. She completely understood this reasoning and was very apologetic, promising not to snoop anymore- which she hasn't!

I'm sure there are those who believe I was too lienient and that's okay- like I said, we are all just trying to do the best we can in this very moment and only time will tell what choices were the right ones. All I know is that TODAY I feel good about the way I handled it. I think my daughter learned not only not to snoop but why it is important in the context of respecting other people's pleasure as much as her own.

Sounds like you did a great job! You made your daughter feel secure enough to tell the truth and it does sound as though she learned a lesson in respecting the feelings of others.

 

[-Hope-]

Sounds like you did a great job! You made your daughter feel secure enough to tell the truth and it does sound as though she learned a lesson in respecting the feelings of others.

Thanks! That's really what I want them to learn in these situations- I really believe that if they only learn to do the right thing out of fear and to avoid punishment then they won't necessarily carry those things with them when they leave home. But true mutual respect for other people because you've learned empathy is something you (hopefully) remember even when no one is watching.

 

[jodifla]

Thanks! That's really what I want them to learn in these situations- I really believe that if they only learn to do the right thing out of fear and to avoid punishment then they won't necessarily carry those things with them when they leave home. But true mutual respect for other people because you've learned empathy is something you (hopefully) remember even when no one is watching.

Really great job parenting in my book! And your child learned the same lesson about not snooping.

Many parents make their own dramas by putting down absolute laws (You can never, ever, lie!!!).

I don't have absolute laws in my house. I have teachable moments.

 

[jodifla]

I still say that this was all about the mother. She was mad because her own holiday was ruined. Meaning she couldn't surprise her kid so she would show him how mad she was. That is what I get from this.
Sure- I would have punished my child for lying and even for snooping. Not because I think it is the end of the world snooping but if it was a deliberate snoop combined with sneaky lying then I would have to address that. I would never take away a holiday like that though. Sorry but that is so over the top that my heart breaks for this child. Every Christmas that child will remember what happened and that wound will be opened again. Humility is good but humiliation is not.
Have you every screwed up and it was an annual event and every year there was someone who had to bring it up because they thought it was funny (now that it was over and corrected etc.) but you did not? Didn't you feel embarrassed each and every time? I would never do that to any person. Those are the things that take away self esteem and teach nothing but shame. Christmas happens every year. Every year this child will be reminded of this horrible event. You know that Mom is going to tell the kid "Remember what happened when you snooped! Don't do that again or it will happen again!" and while on some level she is right to remind her child that lying etc. is never good- she took that punishment so far that every year that child will be embarrassed at the mention of it. The lesson is lost. All she did was shame him. Give it a few years when the kid no longer wants to celebrate Christmas because she made a poor choice of punishment and keeps reminding him of it. Then she will be posting how sad she is that her son has no Christmas spirit.
My heart breaks for the child- not because he lied and that is okay- but because his mom is over the top.

Exactly! You get, how many Christmases with a young child? And this mom has now likely ruined all Christmases to come for him. The punishment for lying that she's so "strict" about should have been pulled away from Christmas.

He gets to feel bad EVERY Christmas now. Way to go, Mom.

 

[Twoboysnmygirl]

I wasn't going to but I can't resist putting my two cents in here. I think that this mother believes she is doing the right thing, most parents, whether we agree with them or not, believe that what they are choosing at any given moment is the best thing for their child in that moment. This mother may regret this decision some day but for now it seems that this is what she feels is best. I'm sure she loves her son very much and feels strongly about him being honest and trustworthy.

That being said I disagree with her. Not only because I think the punishment is too harsh but because I believe it is counter-productive to her overall goal. I don't think this child is going to learn to be more honest and in fact will learn to be more sneaky AND less trusting of his mom. When I'm in doubt in a situation as a parent I look back to my own childhood and try to remember WHY I did the things I did, and HOW I felt at the time, and WHAT the lasting impression of the moment was. Keeping those things in mind I have repeatedly come to the same conclusion- I didn't learn a lot from the punishments OR the rewards my parents doled out when I was kid. What I learned the most from was how we treated each other. If you want kids to respect you then you treat with respect. If you want kids to be trustworthy and honest then you have to be trustworthy and honest with them. If you want kids to respond with love and understanding when you make mistakes then you must respond this way to their mistakes. I don't think this mother has been respectful, trustworthy or understanding with her son so I don't think he's going to learn those things from this situation. JMHO

And just to clarify- I had this EXACT same thing happen this year and handled it in a COMPLETELY different way. My nine year old dd was caught snooping at grandma and granpa's house and then claimed to have been looking for something else in the room. I could tell by the look on her face that her lie was because of embarrassment at being caught doing something wrong- she didn't want to diminish the adults view of her. When I hugged her and told her about the time I snooped when I was about her age and my mom chimed in with her own snooping story from childhood my daughter's fears were comforted and she knew she could be honest. She came clean 100% and she was reassured that our love is unconditional. We also talked about why its disappointing when kids snoop and why they shouldn't do it. We explained that as grown ups our fun isn't from getting presents that its from giving them and we get joy from seeing her face when she gets her Christmas surprise. She completely understood this reasoning and was very apologetic, promising not to snoop anymore- which she hasn't!

I'm sure there are those who believe I was too lienient and that's okay- like I said, we are all just trying to do the best we can in this very moment and only time will tell what choices were the right ones. All I know is that TODAY I feel good about the way I handled it. I think my daughter learned not only not to snoop but why it is important in the context of respecting other people's pleasure as much as her own.

Sigh...I'm so glad you posted b/c you said just what I couldn't.