IF I were shopping for resale RIV…

[eticketplease]

You truly have lost me in this whole rental discussion. Not a single person on earth would pay more for a resort they don’t want, lose the home advantage on their desired resort, just in case they might rent the points some day, so they could get $1-$2 more renting.

I think you have lost us all in this discussion since it wasn't even about renting!!
It was the fact that one can own a higher point resort and you could switch at 7 months to as you put it a "lesser" resort in order to save points and or stretch out a trip but you said why bother to do so.

Not a single person that I have seen in this discussion stated they would pay for a resort that they didn't want let alone pay more for it.

Lets actually start from the beginning of this conversation shall we?

You replied to @juliebee s post about who can book RIV at 7 months starting in February 2042
with

So if you're an owner at GFV or Poly, for example, there is little incentive to trade out. You can't trade out to an Epcot resort for a location switch. You can't swap to a new resort just to try the newness. I don't think many GFV and Poly owners swap out to SSR or OKW, unless it's a question of last minute availability. Sure, could swap to BLT... but why bother trading down to a "lesser" monorail resort?

Which @atthebeachclub responded with

Point differential for one. People might like to stay longer rather than “fancier.” And I like BLT and wouldn’t call it “lesser”, but that’s just me.

Then you replied

Agreed that there is subjectivity, but if a GFV owner thought that BLT was superior, they would have bought BLT.

This is where I jumped in and replied

Most likely yes but there are certainly other factors if you were going to hold the contract such as dues and rentability.
Sure BLT rents well but to your same point most outsiders would prefer to rent VGF than BLT.

With VDH and PVB I'm so glad they are back to adding the 2nd and 3rd bathrooms.
Depending on how many people are going that is a reason we book BLT over VGF.

You then replied to the first sentence with

Dues at GFV are nearly identical to BLT. Nobody would pay $30 more per point to save 9 cents in dues. It would take over 300 years to break even.

And I doubt there is a single buyer ever who said, “I really prefer BLT over GFV, but I think I’ll pay the extra $30 for GFV, and lose 11 month booking for my preferred resort, because if I ever want to rent out my points, it might be slightly easier to rent out my GFV points.”

The second sentence was replied with

Because most people see GFV as superior.

But hold on, if GFV has such great availability within the 7 month window, then there would be no preference to renting GFV points. People could just rent SSR points and use them at GFV at 7 months.

Or, are you suggesting GFV availability is already limited at GFV?! Even though it has unrestricted points?!?!

And if 7 month availability is already so tight, won’t that get even worse, based on your logic?!?

So the problem you predict for Riviera, ALREADY exists for several unrestricted resorts??

This is where I then mentioned replied with an example of how renting VGF is better than renting BLT again nothing mentioned that one should buy a resort that it is not their favorite because it rents better....

Have you met Scrooge McDuck? One more cent is enough for his #1 Dime.

I said there were other factors and dues could be one of them. I certainly never said that was the deciding factor for buying VGF but staying at BLT with those points.

Looking at one of the websites that lists different contracts there is a VGF for $150 and a BLT for $125 for 100 points.
If you base it on that the VGF is $25 more but it nets you 4 additional years of vacations as it expires in 2064 instead of 2060 for BLT.
Now you are really only talking a premium of $6.25 for the flagship resort.
Unlike booking at VGF, one doesn't need the 11 month window to get into a lake view 1 bedroom at BLT that they can switch to at 7 months which would take less points. Using the 100 point contract previously mentioned staying in Season 1 during 9/7/26 - 9/10/26 a BLT Lake/Preferred 1 Bedroom costs 87 points and there are 101 total rooms giving the ability to 7 month pretty good odds. On the other hand VGF Resort/Standard 1 bedroom costs 93 points and since there are only 30 total rooms in that category you would most likely have to book in the owner's priority time frame. Now this example doesn't net the longer stay as @atthebeachclub was mentioning but it does allow one to bank points to the next year and have a second bathroom.

As far as renting goes you can demand more for your points at VGF than you can at BLT. Not only is it the flagship resort but it now has an abundance of studios (VGF - 247 vs BLT - 147) which caters to the rental market. Oh and of course the VGF studios sleep 5 which is a game changer when trying rent.

Yes most people see VGF as superior but it also has to factor in the much larger number of studios that sleep 5.

Never mentioned availability at VGF so not sure what brought this up. My replies were more about people staying longer and not necessarily fancier as @atthebeachclub had mentioned. My response suggested people can and have in the past purchase VGF over BLT for various reasons to stay at BLT and as SAP.

You still need home resort priority if you are trying to book anything in the original building and if you wanted a TP resort studio.

Yes people can and do use SSR points to book any of the O14 resorts and try to rent those out but obviously that will be much harder to grab the dates people want if they don't own there. As a VGF owner I know I can book at Christmas or Easter if I was renting points and someone staying there. If I was a SSR owner I don't know what would be able to rent on a certain date other than at SSR.
Renting points like your example of using SSR for VGF also would not get paid the premium price from DVCrentalstore.com or David's as they would be inside the 7 month window hence why owning VGF would be the better choice.

Feel free to point to where someone has mentioned that it would be ideal to pay more for a resort that they didn't like.

 

[eticketplease]

No, he is a better business man. He wouldn’t pay an extra $25 in order to get a dime discount. That’s a net loss of $24.90. Over 40 years, it’s still a net loss of $21.

Clearly a joke that you didn't get. My apologies

 

[eticketplease]

Need 11 month window? So, your fear of Riviera is already the reality of VGF, even without so-called restrictions?

You already need 11 month windows at desirable resorts? Fascinating!

A RIV resale owner imo does need to be booked at 11 months as explained in previous posts as there are limited options available.

Depending on the accommodation type a VGF resale owner does not need the 11 month advantage and if nothing is available at VGF when they go to book they are able to swap into other remaining O14 resorts at 7 months.

 

[atthebeachclub]

Bowing out of this conversation as I’ve said my piece and don’t feel like beating a dead horse.

 

[Brianstl]

Disney stopped referring to Grand Floridian as WDW’s flagship resort well over a decade ago.

 

[ShaneDJ]

Disney stopped referring to Grand Floridian as WDW’s flagship resort well over a decade ago.

"Walt Disney World's flagship hotel, Disney's Grand Floridian Resort & Spa, provides the highest level of attentive service..."

https://www.disneymeetingsandevents.com/disneyworld/grand-floridian/

 

[Brianstl]

Well, color me surprised. I haven’t seen it referred to it as the flagship resort in the literature I get from them in over a decade. I distinctly remember noticing it had stopped and have been on the lookout for it since. If I had only worked in event planning.

 

[havoc315]

A RIV resale owner imo does need to be booked at 11 months as explained in previous posts as there are limited options available.

As a Riviera resale (and direct) owner, I know that’s not true.

Depending on the accommodation type a VGF resale owner does not need the 11 month advantage and if nothing is available at VGF when they go to book they are able to swap into other remaining O14 resorts at 7 months.

But a main point of this discussion is prospective. Riviera tends to continue to have availability at 6 months right now. So this doom and gloom about Riviera is still non-existent 5+ years into the resort.

Looking into the future, the O14 will be down to O8… quite limited as well.

 

[Mouseforward]

As a Riviera resale (and direct) owner, I know that’s not true.

Hard disagree on this, you could not string more than two days together in a standard view studio.

At six months, you’re lucky to string three days in a PV studio. And January - February are slow months.

December was gone in seconds for standard view Studios.

 

[eticketplease]

As a Riviera resale (and direct) owner, I know that’s not true.



But a main point of this discussion is prospective. Riviera tends to continue to have availability at 6 months right now. So this doom and gloom about Riviera is still non-existent 5+ years into the resort.

Looking into the future, the O14 will be down to O8… quite limited as well.

As with anything DVC related there are always multiple factors.
When are you going and what room type are you booking? Do you have extra points that you could switch to the preferred view if standard was not available? Could you afford to bump up to the next room size if the smaller room is not available?

I know dates sell out fast and others have mentioned it in the past.
I'm certainly happy for you that this has not been the case for you yet but eventually it will become the normal.

The fact that you own direct RIV along with resale RIV will always put you above the ones we have mentioned, the RIV resale only owner.
You might be able to snag 1 night at RIV with the resale points and then split stay the rest of your trip somewhere else with your direct points. The fact is RIV resale owners can't move unless it is through II. So as more and more RIV resale owners come online they will be booking at 11 months to ensure they can use their points.

 

[jolynne28]

This thread has taken a little bit of a turn. I'll update our situation though. We did buy resale, and after points were loaded and I was able to check availability for banked point use, I do see how hard it can be to only have access to RIV. I was able to pick up a week in September that someone cancelled and then rent it out, which is not something I want to discuss here either as it's also been beat to death in another thread. I only mention it to say that there will always be some form of availability inside 7 months, but you do have to put in some extra time and effort to find it, and if you don't have travel flexibility like we do due to location, then I can see how it could be really frustrating.
I have already booked for 2026, did it right at 11 months no problem. I waited out the walkers and was able to get exactly what we wanted for next June. We love the resort and its transportation options. Dedicated buses are amazing and the skyliner makes starting/ending the day nice and relaxing. Lots of things can happen during a trip, but that's true for any resort. We've definitely waited over an hour for a bus back to Poly after the monorail broke down at EPCOT late at night.
On a totally different note, we're staying at Fort Wilderness for 5 nights, we leave tomorrow, and we've only stepped foot in one park so far, and that was EPCOT one night for the pass holder preview of Test Track. We did that and Spaceship Earth then came right back. I might start a thread on this trip, but if we ever decide to get rid of our RV the cabins are definitely on the table. The Fort is like no other, we're having so much fun, and the kids haven't complained once about not going to the parks. We're going this morning to MK strictly to get my kid a t-shirt he's dying to have and me the popcorn at the confectionary. Then we'll head back to go looping.

 

[Patmcpsu]

The Riviera is a great resort, and if it didn't have resale restrictions, its resale value would be at GF or Poly level.

Regarding whether it's a flagship resort, no. A flagship resort requires name recognition, and that belongs to GF. For whatever reason (possibly covid) the resort opened without much mainstream fanfare. Oddly enough, The Cabins have more buzz on social media than the Riviera ever had.

 

[cruisehopeful]

@jolynne28 I hope you do a trip report for your CFW stay.

 

[havoc315]

Hard disagree on this, you could not string more than two days together in a standard view studio.

Doesn't sound like you disagree much. Standard studios book up at EVERY resort shortly within the 11 month window. That's my experience at Riviera and EVERY resort.

At six months, you’re lucky to string three days in a PV studio. And January - February are slow months.

At 6 months, outside of slow months, every resort has limited availability. Depending on the resort and room balances -- but whole room categories are exceptionally limited everywhere. Good luck getting any studio at Beach Club or Boardwalk at 6 months.

But I've never been unable to get a studio at Riviera at the 7 month mark.

December was gone in seconds for standard view Studios.

I've got studios for December that I booked without any rush.

 

[havoc315]

As with anything DVC related there are always multiple factors.
When are you going and what room type are you booking? Do you have extra points that you could switch to the preferred view if standard was not available? Could you afford to bump up to the next room size if the smaller room is not available?

I know dates sell out fast and others have mentioned it in the past.
I'm certainly happy for you that this has not been the case for you yet but eventually it will become the normal.

The fact that you own direct RIV along with resale RIV will always put you above the ones we have mentioned, the RIV resale only owner.
You might be able to snag 1 night at RIV with the resale points and then split stay the rest of your trip somewhere else with your direct points. The fact is RIV resale owners can't move unless it is through II. So as more and more RIV resale owners come online they will be booking at 11 months to ensure they can use their points.

Partially true---- Though I have used my Riviera resale points to secure a 2-bedroom lockoff at Aulani --- indirectly, by swapping points. And I expect the "swap" market to grow as restrictions continue to grow.

 

[havoc315]

Just for context --- Is Riviera availability any worse than most other resorts:

6 months and 3 weeks away is President's week -- Definitely high demand, now a week within 7 months. So did a search for 2/15-2/22


Riviera has no studios left! But neither does ANY resort! Studios are even gone at SSR!

Riviera still has preferred 1 bedroom available and Grand Villa available. So sure enough, availability is pretty bad at Riviera for President's week 2026, at 6 months/3 weeks.... But other resorts?

CCV --- Cabins only. No studios, no 1br, no 2br
Poly -- Bungalows only.
Boulder Ridge -- 1 BR only
SSR and OWK have availability, but no studios.

BLT, AKL, GFV, BCV, BWV -- All wait list only.

So if you want a studio for next President's week, booking now at 6 months and 1 weeks:
NOTHING, at any resort.
You want a 1 BR -- The ONLY Options are Riviera, BRV, SSR and OKW ---

How about at 7 months and 1 day? 2/23 - 3/2:
RIV has no studios left. It has standard and preferred view 1 bedrooms, and preferred view 2 bedrooms.
In context, AKL is also out of studios... CCV, BLT, also out of studios.
No "standard" studios at any resort that actually has more than 1 type of studio.

So at 6 months and 3 weeks -- availability at Riviera is actually better than other resorts. At 7 months and 1 day -- Availability is similar to the normal for resorts.

And let's go a full 8 months -- spring break season --
3/21 to 3/28 -- Riviera has every room type available except for standard studios and tower studios.

 

[eticketplease]

Partially true---- Though I have used my Riviera resale points to secure a 2-bedroom lockoff at Aulani --- indirectly, by swapping points. And I expect the "swap" market to grow as restrictions continue to grow.

100% True, not partially true. Your points didn't make the Aulani reservation. You traded an existing reservation made with RIV resale, made someone a new res with RIV resale or transfered the RIV resale points to someone who has to then deal with availability issues.

The issues of the resale points being used only at RIV or II remains 100% true.

I don't know much value of a swap as it would be hard to make sure each member is made whole. I can certainly see the uptick in members of restricted resorts renting their points to stay elsewhere. Podcasts and shows have mentioned doing this in the past.

 

[airjay75]

Glad I'm not planning on using my RIV points in studios! LOL

On the RIV resale and rent/swap point, I would be nervous buying RIV resale with the plan to "regularly" or "frequently" rent/swap those out to stay at other DVC resorts, at least right now before we see how all of that shakes out. (And not trying to start a discussion about what those words in quotations mean - just noting we are in a period of uncertainty there.)

 

[Mouseforward]

Glad I'm not planning on using my RIV points in studios! LOL

That is why i got a SV studio favorite week in early Dec, this year the SV studios were gone almost as fast as BW. That makes sense as they have 66 vs 120 for PV.

I am surprised more are not grabbing fixed weeks as the premium for the fixed week is less than the cost of being stuck with a PV studio.

 

[byurick]

I'm trying to convince myself to get a fixed week but we just don't do Sun-Sun.