I witnessed something very disturbing today (long)

[allison443]

Actually the majority of moms that I know have never raised a hand to their children and they would have been equally as horrified as the OP in this situation.... and some of them have teenagers!!

My husband and I have never spanked our 3 girls, now ages 11-21. I also know a number of people who don't spank on principle, as well as some who do. I'll never forget we were visiting a friend with 2 little girls, my kids were maybe 8 and 5 at the time. It was clean up time and one of my friend's kids did something wrong, I don't even remember what it was. My friend took out the wooden spoon and threated to hit her kids with it. And she had done so in the past, it wasn't an idle threat. My kids were absolutely horrified. I still remember their faces. Later they told me they were so shocked because she is such a nice lady. That was how they learned that everyone disciplines differently.

I'm not judging anyone else. I'm only posting this since some people apparently find it hard to believe that some parents never spank their kids. And I mean never.

 

[roliepolieoliefan]

I can't say whether someone should or should not spank their kids. But I can say that we have an increasing problem with parents being too accommodating with their chidren. Children are far less disciplined now than ever and it is ruining them. We have more and more children expecting what they want when they want it. I see little kids with cell phones, computers, video games, etc. Our children are also the fattest kids ever. We as parents need to learn to say no. We are so concerned with hurting little Johnnie's feelings that we aren't realizing that we are hurting our future daughter in-laws and grandchildren. Again, I am not saying that all kids should be spanked, but some do need it. It is ridiculous how kids act now. And it's not a coincidence that we are having more and more school shootings, more kids dying in car accidents, more kids as young as eleven sexually active, and more kids addicted to drugs and alcohol. We are not giving our children boundaries. Sometimes kids need to do what they're told just because that's the way it is. No compromising, no explanations, just do as you're told. Period.

Wow! Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[MELSMICE]

I can't say whether someone should or should not spank their kids. But I can say that we have an increasing problem with parents being too accommodating with their chidren. Children are far less disciplined now than ever and it is ruining them. We have more and more children expecting what they want when they want it. I see little kids with cell phones, computers, video games, etc. Our children are also the fattest kids ever. We as parents need to learn to say no. We are so concerned with hurting little Johnnie's feelings that we aren't realizing that we are hurting our future daughter in-laws and grandchildren. Again, I am not saying that all kids should be spanked, but some do need it. It is ridiculous how kids act now. And it's not a coincidence that we are having more and more school shootings, more kids dying in car accidents, more kids as young as eleven sexually active, and more kids addicted to drugs and alcohol. We are not giving our children boundaries. Sometimes kids need to do what they're told just because that's the way it is. No compromising, no explanations, just do as you're told. Period.

I guess I can sort of understand what you're saying, however, it seems that every generation could bring up the same argument.

I'm sure in the 50's, parents & grandparents said that "children now-a-days are so disrepctful than they were in the past. The things they say & do are appauling".

Parents in the 20's & 40's were probably appauled at the things the kids did then because "in the past" kids just didn't act like this - they respected their elders.

The cycle goes around & around. I'm sure our own kids will be saying the same thing in 20 years & they will be right, according to the way they grew up, I'm sure.

You can say no & discipline your children without hitting them. Works in our house. The weight issue you mentioned, I don't believe that has much to do with discipline - it has to do with parents teaching their children about nutrition & eating healthy.

 

[wilderness01]

Originally Posted by DaParkers
I can't say whether someone should or should not spank their kids. But I can say that we have an increasing problem with parents being too accommodating with their chidren. Children are far less disciplined now than ever and it is ruining them. We have more and more children expecting what they want when they want it. I see little kids with cell phones, computers, video games, etc. Our children are also the fattest kids ever. We as parents need to learn to say no. We are so concerned with hurting little Johnnie's feelings that we aren't realizing that we are hurting our future daughter in-laws and grandchildren. Again, I am not saying that all kids should be spanked, but some do need it. It is ridiculous how kids act now. And it's not a coincidence that we are having more and more school shootings, more kids dying in car accidents, more kids as young as eleven sexually active, and more kids addicted to drugs and alcohol. We are not giving our children boundaries. Sometimes kids need to do what they're told just because that's the way it is. No compromising, no explanations, just do as you're told. Period.

I completely agree with you.

Melsmice wrote:

I guess I can sort of understand what you're saying, however, it seems that every generation could bring up the same argument.

I'm sure in the 50's, parents & grandparents said that "children now-a-days are so disrepctful than they were in the past. The things they say & do are appauling".

Parents in the 20's & 40's were probably appauled at the things the kids did then because "in the past" kids just didn't act like this - they respected their elders.

The cycle goes around & around. I'm sure our own kids will be saying the same thing in 20 years & they will be right, according to the way they grew up, I'm sure.

I hear what you are saying, but the problems of today are far worse than they were back then. I'm not saying you need to beat a child, but a little fear and a consequence goes a long way.

I will never forget my friend's son who would threaten to call the police on her if she so much as disciplined him. He did in fact and she was reprimanded. I would have loved to see my consequence as a kid had I done that. I have grown up to be a respectful adult who knows boundaries, is honest, truthful and hard working. My friend's son has been in and out of jail numerous times and hasn't finished high school yet, despite being in his mid 20's. She has had constant problems with that kid since the age of 10 and when she has pleaded for help from the police, many times they turned a blind eye. So this young man learned how to "work the system" at a very young age and is now a lost soul. It really is sad.

You can say no & discipline your children without hitting them. Works in our house. I agree, as long as there is respect given to the parents and a consequence that is followed through if they don't respond to you.

The weight issue you mentioned, I don't believe that has much to do with discipline - it has to do with parents teaching their children about nutrition & eating healthy.I also do think this has to do with discipline. So what if they grab a bag of chips for breakfast if there is no discipline. What is the consequence? In my house there would be one. I was recently told by one of my son's friend's mothers that she was "trying" to get a handle on him, but she just couldn't. This kid is 14 years old. What do you mean you can't? I would have him so under my thumb with no privledges until he complied with what I wanted, that he wouldn't know what hit him.

Instead she has held up the white flag. Well you know what, now this kid is drinking behind her back. So much for her discipline huh? He knew it never mattered, that evidentually she would buckle and he would get his way. He isn't afraid of her at all, and that is where she went wrong.

Judgemental? Maybe. But this family would question me about what I allowed or didn't allow. It put pressure on me for the last few years and they couldn't understand why I was so strict. Well now you have bigger problems with a kid drinking hard liquor since 7th grade. My son didn't and walked away. He said he felt like he was too young, you are a loser to drink that young, and he didn't want to hurt me or his dad. Then he added, he knew he would be "killed" if he got caught doing that and he isn't that stupid to do something like that yet. So you see, a little bit of fear goes a long way.

No we don't "kill" our kids, but we do discipline and there are consequences. I never was huge on hitting, but occasionally when they needed a crack in the behind to fall back in line, I did it and would do it again, if I had to. My kids so far, have grown up to be sweet, respectful, kind kids. They aren't perfect, but they are good kids who respect authority and adults. I can only hope they continue on this path.

 

[poohandwendy]

You can say no & discipline your children without hitting them.

I couldn't care less what forms of discipline other people use, but I wish more parents would recognize the need to consistently use at least some form.

What I have seen, and I KNOW this doesn't reflect all people who are against spanking, is parents who have the anti-spanking stance for the reason that they don't want their children to feel bad...well, they pretty much never want their children to feel bad and are not consistent with ANY form of discipline and their kids run the house. It's crazy, how some people think they are doing their children some kind of favor by not facing negative outcomes for negative behavior.

Can I reiterate here....I am NOT saying this occurs in ALL households where people do not spank. It's something I have seen with some people who are vehemently against spanking.

 

[meandtheguys2]

I couldn't care less what forms of discipline other people use, but I wish more parents would recognize the need to consistently use at least some form.

What I have seen, and I KNOW this doesn't reflect all people who are against spanking, is parents who have the anti-spanking stance for the reason that they don't want their children to feel bad...well, they pretty much never want their children to feel bad and are not consistent with ANY form of discipline and their kids run the house. It's crazy, how some people think they are doing their children some kind of favor by not facing negative outcomes for negative behavior.

Can I reiterate here....I am NOT saying this occurs in ALL households where people do not spank. It's something I have seen with some people who are vehemently against spanking.

I've seen this a lot with the psychologists/counselors and case workers I have known. They talk their kids to death, and their kids are brats. Not all of them, of course, but it seems to be a higher than average percentage.

Consistency is the key. And disciplining in a calm manner.

 

[jrmasm]

I couldn't care less what forms of discipline other people use, but I wish more parents would recognize the need to consistently use at least some form.

What I have seen, and I KNOW this doesn't reflect all people who are against spanking, is parents who have the anti-spanking stance for the reason that they don't want their children to feel bad...well, they pretty much never want their children to feel bad and are not consistent with ANY form of discipline and their kids run the house. It's crazy, how some people think they are doing their children some kind of favor by not facing negative outcomes for negative behavior.

Can I reiterate here....I am NOT saying this occurs in ALL households where people do not spank. It's something I have seen with some people who are vehemently against spanking.

I completely agree with the bolded section but I have witnessed enough inconsistency in spanking households that I remain in the camp that spanking is unnecessary.

ETA: And as non spankers, our methods of discipline have nothing to do with our children's feelings and everything to do with the fact that we believe hitting is wrong period.

 

[roliepolieoliefan]

No matter what discipline method you use, the key word is consistency!

For example, the counting parents: 1...2...2 1/2...2 3/4. Just say 3 already and do something! My DD knows its 1, 2, 3. and sometimes its 1, 2. At 3 she gets consequences, so you can guarantee that whatever she's doing by 3, she's not anymore.

I was walking through Wal-Mart the other day. A mother was walking and her DS was running screaming , touching everything on the shelves. She starts counting 1,2, of course, the kid kept doing it. The mother goes on to say, Do I need to say 3?

Hello!!! Yea you do, and give the kid some consequences, Because by his behavior you could tell he got none. Whether it be a spanking or some other sort of punishment.


Kids need some sort of consistency. I laugh too when I see parents sit a 2 yo down and give them a 10 minute explanation on how they were bad, and why they shouldn't do it again.
You know, you probably lost them after the 2nd word.

 

[Thumbs18]

Anyone on this thread that says that little girl should have ben punished is WRONG! she is a 2 year old and is still learning things! You should NEVER NEVER NEVER hit a child! I don't care how old or young they are! Little kids at her age are abused everyday, a good majority of them are killed from the abuse from a parent with anger issues or if they survive then they grow up in fear of other people, that includes all relationships and friendships. No one deserves that kind of treatment in anyway what so ever.For Petes sake people HE DRUG HER BY HER NECK! Do you people have a consciense? Cuz to me it sounds like Jiminey Cricketts on Vacation!

 

[Acklander]

Anyone on this thread that says that little girl should have ben punished is WRONG! she is a 2 year old and is still learning things! You should NEVER NEVER NEVER hit a child!

I agree that there is no reason to hit a child. Yes, you need consistancy, but showing a child that you can overpower him/her is unnecessary and has nothing to do with discipline.

As far as the OP - any parent that brings a 2 year old child to wait in a Dr's office without something for them to do, is asking for trouble. If the mom didn't want the little girl playing with her purse she should have diverted her with something else and I don't see where the dad bullying the little girl into "being quiet" served any purpose whatsoever.

 

[KristiKelly]

I have not read all of the responses but I think the dad was out of line. I am not against spanking. I have spanked my kids, with my hand, pop on the butt. I have realized that my hand usually hurts just as bad afterwards so I try not to do that anymore.

Anyway... I don't know how others are but when my kids act up I am usually calmer in the presence of others, out in public, etc. and I think a lot of parents are. I try to be on my best parenting-discipline-behavior in public. I hate to think what this Dad would do to the little girl when no one is watching if this is what he does with an audience and possibly on his "best behavior". Very sad for the little girl and what about the mother for allowing it, she's probably just as afraid as the little girl.

Being the mother of a 2 year old right now, when DD gets upset, she's gone, it takes a few minutes for her to calm down - spanking her would not make the situation any better. If we're out in public and she acts up, I will usually take her to the bathroom and make her stand in the corner for a minute or so - this is so effective with her. Then I wait until she calms down before going back out.

 

[poohandwendy]

Anyone on this thread that says that little girl should have ben punished is WRONG! she is a 2 year old and is still learning things! You should NEVER NEVER NEVER hit a child! I don't care how old or young they are! Little kids at her age are abused everyday, a good majority of them are killed from the abuse from a parent with anger issues or if they survive then they grow up in fear of other people, that includes all relationships and friendships. No one deserves that kind of treatment in anyway what so ever.For Petes sake people HE DRUG HER BY HER NECK! Do you people have a consciense? Cuz to me it sounds like Jiminey Cricketts on Vacation!

This is your opinion...of course. I wasn't there, so I can't really comment on whether or not it was abuse.

 

[Hannathy]

I couldn't sleep last night and the show Good Times was on and guess what the youngest child lied and forged the parents signature and the Dad spanked him with his belt. In fact it was line later that brought a laugh when the Mom said now didn't your Dad get though to you when he had that talk to you? and the kid said rubbing his butt, well if he was aiming for my brain he was going for the wrong spot. How things have changed, there was no outcry in the media, no protests, the Father wasn't arrested, the audience didn't boo. No that show was heralded as an intact strong family with a father present and well behaved disciplined children. Amazing how opinions have changed. Now I don't think you need to hit kids with a belt but a swat or two when needed won't kill them and is not abuse, especially when they are toddlers. I also think the dragging across the floor is a gross exaggeration 'cause it sounds like it was just from 1 chair to another.

 

[Freyja]

I completely agree with the bolded section but I have witnessed enough inconsistency in spanking households that I remain in the camp that spanking is unnecessary.

ETA: And as non spankers, our methods of discipline have nothing to do with our children's feelings and everything to do with the fact that we believe hitting is wrong period.

I totally agree.

 

[TinkerbellMama]

I'm not judging anyone else. I'm only posting this since some people apparently find it hard to believe that some parents never spank their kids. And I mean never.

I wasn't spanked as a child. And I have never spanked (nor will I ever) my son. It isn't even something that comes to mind (probably because I wasn't dealt with that way by my own parents). No more than I would consider hitting one of you when we have a heated disagreement on the DIS. I think hitting's wrong and always wrong (except in self-defense if you have no other option such as walking/running away). Doesn't matter to me who the recipient is...I'm just not going to hit another human being. I know better. I am a better parent than that. Yes, I said it that way, because I know there are much more effective and humane ways to deal with misbehavior. Maybe spankers also think they are doing the best thing possible (by spanking) and that it makes them great parents. I'm just saying, for me PERSONALLY, I would consider it a failure if I resorted to hitting (spanking, switching, whatever) my child. I think it would be an ABUSE of my power over him, in the most literal sense of the world (I don't think it means what a lot of people think it means). I know I'm dancing on the edge of debate here, lol, and I'm trying to be good. Just another voice to let people know not everyone spanks their children. Some of us wouldn't dream of it!

 

[nicolemomof4cuties]

A two-to-three year old is NOT capable of sitting quietly for long periods of time. Kids at this age like to run around and explore and get their energy out. I'm a child development major and this is Child Development 101 - basic, common sense. Sure, lots of two-to-three year olds have the patience to sit for a certain amount of time, but most don't and NONE of them can just sit quietly for hours on end in a doctor's office. That's why pediatrician's offices and other "business/professional" settings geared towards kids have things for kids to touch and explore and play with. As someone else said, kids are NOT little adults. They have different attention spans, obligations and moral values.

This isn't to you Hannathy, this is just about the discussion. I'm a firm believer that hitting will get you nowhere. Also as someone else said, kids who are hit only learn to avoid punishment. They don't learn anything but fear and violence. Teaching your children right from wrong will actually leave them with lasting values, and allow them to grow within their own stage of moral development. This doesn't even apply in this case, though. How is a two year old whimpering worthy of getting hit at all?! And saying she was warned is insane... she's TWO. If you don't want to entertain your child in an adult-oriented setting, then don't bring them. At such a young age they're obviously going to be bored, and YOU'RE the parent so it's YOUR job to keep them busy. Nothing a toddler does is worthy of getting hit. They're BABIES! They just want to have fun and be free to do so. If you have so little patience with your own child that you'd drag them out of a crowded room and hit them for no apparent reason, maybe you should question your ability as a parent all together.

I am also a Childhood development Major that carried a 4.0 and I disagree. I expect my children and children that I care for to obey. I do bring books with me to entertain them when I can but if they are not available I expect my chilren to be well-behaved. Belive it or not my children will sit quietly during church for several hours and not act like heathen. Children do what is expected of them and what they are trained to do. People do not train their children anymore. Children do not need 24/7 entertinment that is part of the problem with todays society. Alot of the children that I get in today think that they need to be enetertained-I have to retrain them to entertain them self. To learn how to play and have imagainations. We do not allow toys with batteries for children under the age of 7 here for just that reason. No video games, period. I must truly be an abusive caregiver and parent .

 

[nicolemomof4cuties]

To all DIS Moms (and Dads) with DAUGHTERS, as I have only sons...I asked this a while ago (on this thread) and will ask it again....WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL ABOUT PLAYING IN THE MOM'S PURSE???

I have 3 sisters (close in age) and the 4 of us were so close to my Mom, (still are to this very day) and I can remember Mom laying on the living room couch after a long day with 5 children and the 4 girls would ask if we could play in her purse....SHE HAD NO PROBLEM.....we played, cleaned, sorted, organized, & rearranged everything in her purse while she watched and dozed. We loved playing in Mom's purse...as we got older and realized MONEY was also kept in this purse...lol...we ALWAYS wanted to clean her purse. No lie, we could easily come up with $10.00 (mostly in loose change) whenever we "cleaned" Mom's purse!!! :

So again I ask WHY would this Mom have any issues with Lydia playing in her purse IF at all cost it kept her busy AND quiet?

Then this thread never would have come to be!!!!!

I have about $1000 worth of medication with me in my purse when I go to the Dr. or hen we go anywhere for more for more than two hours bacause of health problems. Quite a few of these would not fare well for a child, if they managed to get a cap off. And children are WAY better at getting the caps off that parents are anyay--arent they?

 

[Minniemouse07]

I am also a Childhood development Major that carried a 4.0 and I disagree. ... People do not train their children anymore.

Sorry, a child is not a dog and should never be "trained." I prefer to use the term TEACH or LEARN rather than train. As in... People do not TEACH their children how to behave in public anymore.

It says a lot about how you view small children based upon your choice of words.

 

[MELSMICE]

I completely agree with the bolded section but I have witnessed enough inconsistency in spanking households that I remain in the camp that spanking is unnecessary.

ETA: And as non spankers, our methods of discipline have nothing to do with our children's feelings and everything to do with the fact that we believe hitting is wrong period.

ITA. I'm none of my DD's best friends - I am their mother. I set the boundaries. They are consistent - they know this.

I just choose not to hit.

I also think the dragging across the floor is a gross exaggeration 'cause it sounds like it was just from 1 chair to another.

It's not the fact of how far it was - who cares. It's the fact that it was done.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Sorry, a child is not a dog and should never be "trained." I prefer to use the term TEACH or LEARN rather than train. As in... People do not TEACH their children how to behave in public anymore.

It says a lot about how you view small children based upon your choice of words.

ITA!!!!!