I witnessed something very disturbing today (long)

[bluefairy13]

Well. I suppose my point is that the belief the 'two year olds CAN be expected to ....." is most probably the exact same belief that the father in the OP would use to defend his actions.

.

Well now I just think you are trying to misundertand me so I give up.

I never expected perfection, just an effort. I did expect my child to listen to me, but I wasn't dragging her or hitting her. Just reminding her to sit down. I guess I was a monster.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Well, I am very happy to know that your kids are little soldiers. Your expectations of children make my head want to explode, quite frankly. Your the same person who thought my three year old son should have been thrown out of Sunday school because he did not want to color for an hour.

I don't believe that we need to force our kids to do things by a certain age. For what? To have bragging rights? Like I said, I am glad your kids are soldiers.

Kristine

ITA!!!!!!
I agree that any parent who says, "Well MY child could sit still, My child was potty trained, MY child... My child...." is doing nothing but excercising bragging rights. What may have been the reality for one child is not the reality for all children.

Freya, in your own post you state that two of your children were not developmentally ready for certain things at two years of age.

So, I guess I do not understand why you take offense at a poster who says that maybe we do not need to force our kids at a certain age?

 

[Freyja]

Why is it harsh? She is always talking about how her kids did this and this at this age. Obviously she expects that because her kids did it, that everyone else's should too. If they don't, there is something wrong with them.

Kristine

It is harsh to assume her children are little "soldiers" just because they possibly are capable of doing more at certain ages than your or other children are/were able of doing.

 

[bluefairy13]

Of course you have control over it! And the control you have is bringing something for the child to play with during a long appointment or doctor's visit. It think it's completely unrealistic to expect a 2-year old to just sit there and stare into space for ANY amount of time. And yes, at 2 children SHOULD be running around and exploring and wanting to keep themselves engaged. So training them not to do is is only stifling their development.

With all do respect, the doctor's office is not a good example for me. Lots of times at the doctor's office there were sick children around, or my dd was sick, and I really didn't want her exploring just everything.

I'm not sure why some of you are getting the idea that I want a little soldier. There were times when she could explore and times if was better if she just sat with me and minded me. Every situation wasn't the same.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Well now I just think you are trying to misundertand me so I give up.

I never expected perfection, just an effort. I did expect my child to listen to me, but I wasn't dragging her or hitting her. Just reminding her to sit down. I guess I was a monster.

NO!!!! you are not a monster at all!!!
That is not what I am thinking at all!!!

But, for many who want to believe that 'children are capable', that is their justification for using physical and sometimes abusive disciplinary measures.

I think it is a big mistake to make any broad/blanket expectations regarding two year olds at all!!!!!

 

[Freyja]

ITA!!!!!!
I agree that any parent who says, "Well MY child could sit still, My child was potty trained, MY child... My child...." is doing nothing but excercising bragging rights. What may have been the reality for one child is not the reality for all children.

Freya, in your own post you state that two of your children were not developmentally ready for certain things at two years of age.

So, I guess I do not understand why you take offense at a poster who says that maybe we do not need to force our kids at a certain age?

I don´t take offense at it but I would have if she had been referring to my children. Why? Because my 2 children who were capable of these things at the age of 2 were not soldiers in any way and assuming so is ridiculous.

 

[connorlevismom]

With all do respect, the doctor's office is not a good example for me. Lots of times at the doctor's office there were sick children around, or my dd was sick, and I really didn't want her exploring just everything.

I'm not sure why some of you are getting the idea that I want a little soldier. There were times when she could explore and times if was better if she just sat with me and minded me. Every situation wasn't the same.

I hope you don't mean me. I do not think you want your kids to be soldiers, I was speaking of someone else.

 

[bluefairy13]

I hope you don't mean me. I do not think you want your kids to be soldiers, I was speaking of someone else.

Oh no, not you! But I am very confused!!! I just have this feeling that we all are pretty close but not understanding each other!

 

[connorlevismom]

I don´t take offense at it but I would have if she had been referring to my children. Why? Because my 2 children who were capable of these things at the age of 2 were not soldiers in any way and assuming so is ridiculous.

No, not because your children are capable of doing something at the age of 2. But EXPECTING that they behave in a certain manner BECAUSE of their age is absurd. Expecting that your child be potty trained by the time they are 2 years old is crazy. If they are, great! But I am not going to MAKE my child be potty trained even if they are not ready, because they are two and I can then tell everyone that he was potty trained by two.

 

[Hannathy]

Well, I am very happy to know that your kids are little soldiers. Your expectations of children make my head want to explode, quite frankly. Your the same person who thought my three year old son should have been thrown out of Sunday school because he did not want to color for an hour.

I don't believe that we need to force our kids to do things by a certain age. For what? To have bragging rights? Like I said, I am glad your kids are soldiers.

Kristine

Go ahead and twist things any way you want. I don't think children need to be soldiers but I do think they need to know how to behave in public and that not enough is expected out of them now. As far as your son I said it was not fair to the other children for him to disrupt the class by RUNNING OUT OF the room and the teacher having to chase him every time. Which is what she was complaining about. I also said he could be expected to sit and wait if he didn't want to color. So roll your eyes it doesn't bother me I just know what hundreds of other children are capable of doing and just saying years and years ago a lot more was expected out of children and they were able to give it so what has changed?

 

[babieemelly]

With all do respect, the doctor's office is not a good example for me. Lots of times at the doctor's office there were sick children around, or my dd was sick, and I really didn't want her exploring just everything.

I absolutely understand that At the pediatrician either your child is sick and only wants to just sit there, or other children are sick and you don't want them catching anything! I'm talking about when a parent has an appointment like in the original post, especially at someone as harmless as at an allergist's office. And like you said, sometimes it's best for a child to just sit calmly and mind their parents. You're absolutely right, and the best way to do so is if you bring a book or a small toy for them to play with. That way they'll be "entertained" and cooperative all at once.

 

[Freyja]

No, not because your children are capable of doing something at the age of 2. But EXPECTING that they behave in a certain manner BECAUSE of their age is absurd.

ITA. I still would never accuse other people of raising little soldiers. It´s the wording I thought was harsh.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Hannathy wrote:

Wow I'm wondering when this evolutionary change took place, I guess the same one that says kids can't be expected to be toilet trained by 2 took place. Why is it that 2-3 yr olds where expected and DID have control of them selves to stay still and quiet if needed 20, 50, 100 yrs ago? To follow directions. My DD was taking dance classes at 2 1/2 and she somehow was able to control herself and follow directions for 30 minutes. Same as toilet training 25 yrs ago and before 2 was the upper age to be trained now it's who knows.

Kids haven't changed, just the parents and expectations.

These words are definately NOT just her stating that her children have been 'capable' at any certain age.

Hannathy has made blanket statements that two year olds should sit still and be quiet. Which, if anyone has been following this thread, is not known to be developmentaly normal or good for learning and growing.

To Hannathy, if you think it is a good idea to go back to the days when children were like 'property' and were to be hidden away (not seen or heard) unless they were dressed up and put on display like little tin soldiers or trained circus animals, then hey that is fine.

I just very strongly disagree.

 

[Wishing on a star]

ITA. I still would never accuse other people of raising little soldiers. It´s the wording I thought was harsh.

Yes Freyja, those words were harsh.

But, I kind of felt that Hannathy's words were a little strong as well.

 

[Dakota_Lynn]

I am also a Childhood development Major that carried a 4.0 and I disagree. I expect my children and children that I care for to obey. I do bring books with me to entertain them when I can but if they are not available I expect my chilren to be well-behaved. Belive it or not my children will sit quietly during church for several hours and not act like heathen. Children do what is expected of them and what they are trained to do. People do not train their children anymore. Children do not need 24/7 entertinment that is part of the problem with todays society. Alot of the children that I get in today think that they need to be enetertained-I have to retrain them to entertain them self. To learn how to play and have imagainations. We do not allow toys with batteries for children under the age of 7 here for just that reason. No video games, period. I must truly be an abusive caregiver and parent .

Everybody is well trained at your home. You're the poster whose husband tells you what you may and may not read, correct? So you're well-trained as well!

 

[connorlevismom]

Go ahead and twist things any way you want. I don't think children need to be soldiers but I do think they need to know how to behave in public and that not enough is expected out of them now. As far as your son I said it was not fair to the other children for him to disrupt the class by RUNNING OUT OF the room and the teacher having to chase him every time. Which is what she was complaining about. I also said he could be expected to sit and wait if he didn't want to color. So roll your eyes it doesn't bother me I just know what hundreds of other children are capable of doing and just saying years and years ago a lot more was expected out of children and they were able to give it so what has changed?

I am not twisting anything. I said that you thought he should be thrown out and you did. Yep, he was running out of the room, yep he wanted to play with toys, yep he wanted to play with toys instead of color. If you really think a 3 year old should sit and do nothing at a table for AN HOUR because he does not want to color, that just says it all.

Kristine

 

[Wishing on a star]

Well, I know some 5 year olds who would not too well being expected to sit in a seat and color for a full hour.

I am thinking that the three year old became disruptive, and did not follow what the caregiver was doing, because she was not providing appropriate outlets for 3 year olds.

I would then be looking at the flawed expectations, not a flawed little 3 year old child.

 

[babieemelly]

Everybody is well trained at your home. You're the poster whose husband tells you what you may and may not read, correct? So you're well-trained as well!

Now I'm not at all surprised.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Well, I am outa here folks... gotta run.

I just wanted to say that this thread looks like it might be getting personal and going bad very quickly!!!!

I think it might be best to just state our views, with or without respectful disagreement, and leave it at that.

Remember, we do not really know each other.
And, hey, we are probably not gonna change anyones views anyway.

 

[nicolemomof4cuties]

The word "train" is used by lots of experts and I'm sure none of them are thinking of it as being the same as training a dog.

I am old school and believe teaching kids to sit still and that they must know how to entertain themselves is a good thing, but I see there are plenty that disagree with that.

I don't know if Nicole and I would agree on everything (and we don't have to) but I'm pretty sure she's not the whip cracker some of you are making her out to be. You "train" a child by teaching them very methodically and with consistency, that's all.

Thank you for seeing my point Blue Fairy! I am not a whipcracker, I am actually quite fun!