I witnessed something very disturbing today (long)

[Master Gracy]

Now that is horrible! I would've said something.

We were in the queue for pirates.
It was shocking, it made such a loud sound, it sounded just as bad as it looked. The father was HUGE and rather scary. The child was in floods of tears, and half of his face was really red. The entire queue was staring, and things went quiet at that point. They didnt speak english, they were spanish I think. We said something to a cm on our way on the boat though, idk if they sorted anything out.

 

[Hannathy]

The fact that so many of you think a 2-3 yr old child isn't capable of sitting QUIETLY (which is what he was initially correcting) amazes me and also explains to me all the posts about having to take a car seat to contain their child on an airplane because they won't sit and the misbehaving kids at Disney. A child even at 2 is capable of knowing to sit and wait for a bit without fussing. I would have corrected mine for "whimpering" or whatever it is being called. They don't need entertained constantly they can sit quietly in a public place if that is what is demanded of them. Kids used to behave in church without gameboys.

I think the father went overboard but at least he was trying and again spanking especially only 3 swats is not abuse. And if the office thought it was abuse I'm sure they would have called they don't need someone else telling them to, they were there to.

 

[California Girl]

I think it's horrific that anyone would do that to a two-year-old child, and more horrific that anyone would try to excuse it. We are not talking about "three whacks on the butt" here. He dragged the child by her neck. He hit (spanked, for those who want to sugarcoat it) her three times, and the OP did NOT know if it was on the behind or somewhere else as she could not see them at that time. He shoved the child back towards her mother. That is physical and emotional abuse. He assaulted and terrorized that child. I don't give a flaming rip who disagrees with me, either. I won't even be debating it on this thread, because there's no point. The same people always excuse or condone it, and bring out the usual pro-spanking arguments. Hitting a child is ALWAYS wrong...but this was downright abusive. I would have stepped in immediately and called the police and/or child protective services had I witnessed the same incident (yes, really). DRAGGING HER BY HER NECK??? You have got to be kidding me!!! This is my MAJOR hot-button issue. It sickens me how people will defend corporal punishment--no matter how young the child, no matter how severe the assault, no matter how terrified the victim. IT'S WRONG. PERIOD. Ugh.
I'm sorry you had to witness that, OP. I know it's frightening. Next time, I'm sure you will speak up! Don't beat yourself up about it.

Oh, and since I am being totally candid here...
He gave her quite a few chances? Not to be physically attacked by one of the two people who should always keep her safe? And she blew it, so that makes it okay to assault her? I want to vomit just reading those words. Truly.

Now that amazes me!!!!

 

[jodifla]

While I think that spanking isn't a very effective teacher for the most part, neither is it child abuse.

OP saw a glimpse of this family's day. She has NO IDEA what transpired earlier to make the dad act this way. I can ook back and think of days where DS drove me to the brink.

People lose their tempers. Particularly with toddlers, who tend really try people's patience. It's not ideal, but calling in the police is just has hysterical as the dad was being.

OP didn't have much place to say something. It's not her job to micromanage another family's life.

 

[Minniemouse07]

The fact that so many of you think a 2-3 yr old child isn't capable of sitting QUIETLY (which is what he was initially correcting) amazes me and also explains to me all the posts about having to take a car seat to contain their child on an airplane because they won't sit and the misbehaving kids at Disney. A child even at 2 is capable of knowing to sit and wait for a bit without fussing. I would have corrected mine for "whimpering" or whatever it is being called. They don't need entertained constantly they can sit quietly in a public place if that is what is demanded of them. Kids used to behave in church without gameboys.

I use a car seat on an airplane because it is the SAFEST way for my child to travel. It is an abomination that our pets and coffeepots are strapped down and "safe" but our kids can "legally" fly around the cabin in emergency situations.

The fact that my child is calmer and happier in their seat isn't because they are "contained" but because they are sitting in a way that they are accustomed to when traveling (be it by plane or car). But even if they weren't happier, they would still be in their car seat on the plane...just like it is non-negotiable about riding in one in the car.

Yes I do bring along things for my ds (currently 23mo) to amuse himself w/ when we are out and about. I do NOT expect him to sit still and do nothing. That makes him unhappy, and more work for ME. If he is happily running his thomas train along the table in the restaurant.... and we all eat a peaceful meal...everything is good.

Why wouldn't you have small amusements for a young child? When you are at the dr's office don't you bring a book or read a magazine in the waiting room? Same difference, only my ds can't read yet!

 

[carrie s]

That poor little girl.If thats how he acts over whimpering how does he act over bigger things.
Saying something to him wouldnt of done anything,he probably would of just yelled at you.

 

[babieemelly]

The fact that so many of you think a 2-3 yr old child isn't capable of sitting QUIETLY (which is what he was initially correcting) amazes me and also explains to me all the posts about having to take a car seat to contain their child on an airplane because they won't sit and the misbehaving kids at Disney. A child even at 2 is capable of knowing to sit and wait for a bit without fussing. I would have corrected mine for "whimpering" or whatever it is being called. They don't need entertained constantly they can sit quietly in a public place if that is what is demanded of them. Kids used to behave in church without gameboys.

A two-to-three year old is NOT capable of sitting quietly for long periods of time. Kids at this age like to run around and explore and get their energy out. I'm a child development major and this is Child Development 101 - basic, common sense. Sure, lots of two-to-three year olds have the patience to sit for a certain amount of time, but most don't and NONE of them can just sit quietly for hours on end in a doctor's office. That's why pediatrician's offices and other "business/professional" settings geared towards kids have things for kids to touch and explore and play with. As someone else said, kids are NOT little adults. They have different attention spans, obligations and moral values.

This isn't to you Hannathy, this is just about the discussion. I'm a firm believer that hitting will get you nowhere. Also as someone else said, kids who are hit only learn to avoid punishment. They don't learn anything but fear and violence. Teaching your children right from wrong will actually leave them with lasting values, and allow them to grow within their own stage of moral development. This doesn't even apply in this case, though. How is a two year old whimpering worthy of getting hit at all?! And saying she was warned is insane... she's TWO. If you don't want to entertain your child in an adult-oriented setting, then don't bring them. At such a young age they're obviously going to be bored, and YOU'RE the parent so it's YOUR job to keep them busy. Nothing a toddler does is worthy of getting hit. They're BABIES! They just want to have fun and be free to do so. If you have so little patience with your own child that you'd drag them out of a crowded room and hit them for no apparent reason, maybe you should question your ability as a parent all together.

 

[Wishing on a star]

A two-to-three year old is NOT capable of sitting quietly for long periods of time. Kids at this age like to run around and explore and get their energy out. I'm a child development major and this is Child Development 101 - basic, common sense. Sure, lots of two-to-three year olds have the patience to sit for a certain amount of time, but most don't and NONE of them can just sit quietly for hours on end in a doctor's office. That's why pediatrician's offices and other "business/professional" settings geared towards kids have things for kids to touch and explore and play with. As someone else said, kids are NOT little adults. They have different attention spans, obligations and moral values.

This isn't to you Hannathy, this is just about the discussion. I'm a firm believer that hitting will get you nowhere. Also as someone else said, kids who are hit only learn to avoid punishment. They don't learn anything but fear and violence. Teaching your children right from wrong will actually leave them with lasting values, and allow them to grow within their own stage of moral development. This doesn't even apply in this case, though. How is a two year old whimpering worthy of getting hit at all?! And saying she was warned is insane... she's TWO. If you don't want to entertain your child in an adult-oriented setting, then don't bring them. At such a young age they're obviously going to be bored, and YOU'RE the parent so it's YOUR job to keep them busy. If you have so little patience with your own child that you'd drag them out of a crowded room and hit them for no apparent reason, maybe you should question your ability as a parent all together.

I am soooo glad that you posted all of this!

We are talking about a child who is barely out of diapers. (if they are)

I also found the post that you are responding to very troubling.

 

[momx2]

I was not there and I can not comment on what happened because the OP could be under or over stating what happened, it all depends on her prospective. As she stated herself she did not see anything physical and if she had called the police they would have told her she did not witness anything without actually seeing it happen. He did not grab her by the neck but by the coat, she didn't even see what the police would call abuse there.

However, DS would always say no and start to cry when I was taking him off to the the restroom for a talk in a restaurant and no he was not being spanked in there just a stern talking to.

ETA; This thread will be locked quickly!

ITA!!! My youngest DD did this all the time also. I wouldn't even take her out of church when she was misbehaving because I was scared she would yell out like that and everyone would think I was beating her. Even today at 6, if I raise my voice to her she breaks into tears and wails. Just because she knows I'm going to punish her by......not spanking......but taking her computer or tv away for the the day. But if you were an outsider you would think I was going to beat her by her reaction. She actually did this to my DH once at her sister's softball game. She was about 3 and was wild. He told her he was going to take her to the bathroom if she didn't behave. She started the "no daddy, no daddy" like she was going to be beaten. He was going to just get her away from disturbing everyone. Now, he has swatted her behind a time or two, but never anything else. The other parents just started laughing.

I think the dad in this story was totally over reacting. I do believe in spankings with younger children. Not beatings, but a few swats on the covered behind to get their attention. I do think it's crazy to spank a child for crying. That's not going to help anything.

 

[3jsmommy]

The fact that so many of you think a 2-3 yr old child isn't capable of sitting QUIETLY (which is what he was initially correcting) amazes me and also explains to me all the posts about having to take a car seat to contain their child on an airplane because they won't sit and the misbehaving kids at Disney. A child even at 2 is capable of knowing to sit and wait for a bit without fussing. I would have corrected mine for "whimpering" or whatever it is being called. They don't need entertained constantly they can sit quietly in a public place if that is what is demanded of them. Kids used to behave in church without gameboys.

I think the father went overboard but at least he was trying and again spanking especially only 3 swats is not abuse. And if the office thought it was abuse I'm sure they would have called they don't need someone else telling them to, they were there to.

I have heard many seniors in the geriatric unit whimper about things too, I don't think that anyone would condone hitting them do you?
I know many 2 year olds that have trouble sitting still.
My 6 & 4 year old go to church w/ out any entertainment & people are constantly complementing me on how still they sit & how well behaved they are.
They have NEVER been hit by us, so I guess I have gotten the same results as you w/ out hitting my children, maybe you should rethink your philosophy if it is purely for the sake of kids learning...

 

[momx2]

Children that are raised w/ punishment (ie spanking, screaming, yelling) learn to not get caught. Children that are raised w/ logical consequences learn to act correctly even when noone is watching!

Where did you hear that? Some of the sneakest kids I ever met were not spanked. I don't think one thing has anything to do with the other. You get caught you get a consequence whether it be logical or illogical. Maybe the the parents who only use the "logical consequences" merely think their children do nothing they don't know about.

 

[kc10family]

ITA. If she knew she was going to be spanked (hardly child abuse!) if she continued whimpering when she was told to stop, then she should have stopped.

My DH's mother was the type to say "if you keep crying I'm going to give you something to cry about" and she would do just that. He grew up to be a wonderful man. Spanking is NOT "child abuse."

If more parents believed in "spare the rod, spoil the child" I think there would be less "problem children" in the world today. Same goes for in schools. Teachers and principals should still be able to spank students when necessary. Kids today know that teachers/principals "can't touch them" and so many parents are of the "time out" mindset so kids know they can get away with a whole heck of a lot more than they used to. Sad.

A human of 2 1/2 years of age is not in full managment of the emotions they have.
Spanking IMO is fine, however, in this situation (as I read it) spanking was not the answer. A human of 2.5 years needs to be taught WHY not to do some thing with WORDS, this will assist the learning of such actions. Spakings in such situations teach nothing but fear.

I find your comments offensive. JMO

 

[basas]

I think it's horrific that anyone would do that to a two-year-old child, and more horrific that anyone would try to excuse it. We are not talking about "three whacks on the butt" here. He dragged the child by her neck. He hit (spanked, for those who want to sugarcoat it) her three times, and the OP did NOT know if it was on the behind or somewhere else as she could not see them at that time. He shoved the child back towards her mother. That is physical and emotional abuse. He assaulted and terrorized that child. I don't give a flaming rip who disagrees with me, either. I won't even be debating it on this thread, because there's no point. The same people always excuse or condone it, and bring out the usual pro-spanking arguments. Hitting a child is ALWAYS wrong...but this was downright abusive. I would have stepped in immediately and called the police and/or child protective services had I witnessed the same incident (yes, really). DRAGGING HER BY HER NECK??? You have got to be kidding me!!! This is my MAJOR hot-button issue. It sickens me how people will defend corporal punishment--no matter how young the child, no matter how severe the assault, no matter how terrified the victim. IT'S WRONG. PERIOD. Ugh.
I'm sorry you had to witness that, OP. I know it's frightening. Next time, I'm sure you will speak up! Don't beat yourself up about it.

Oh, and since I am being totally candid here...
He gave her quite a few chances? Not to be physically attacked by one of the two people who should always keep her safe? And she blew it, so that makes it okay to assault her? I want to vomit just reading those words. Truly.

I've read the OP's story 3 times and I still fail to see any 'abuse'. Spanking is not abuse. Many parents 'drag their kids across the floor' (which is rarely as it sounds) and many kids scream out "don't" and cry away whenever they're in big trouble. It's so easy to parent from the internet and apparently the majority of DIS posters have perfect children who don't need disciplining.

 

[babieemelly]

Where did you hear that? Some of the sneakest kids I ever met were not spanked. I don't think one thing has anything to do with the other. You get caught you get a consequence whether it be logical or illogical. Maybe the the parents who only use the "logical consequences" merely think their children do nothing they don't know about.

Of course it's not true in some cases, but the basic philosophy is. "Teaching" kids a lesson by hitting them is teaching them NOTHING. The only thing you're teaching them is that it's OK to hit someone, and you're likely to have problems when your child gets into an argument or fight at school and hits another child because that's what they've learned is right to do when someone is "bad". Then what are you going to say... hitting's bad?!

And for those of you who say that you have to hit your kids to discipline them... take a few child-rearing classes and you'll learn so many other ways I'm not saying that occasionally giving an older child a smack on the butt is going to ruin their lives forever, but you're honestly teaching them nothing but to fear you. Good luck with that.

 

[Poohbear123]

About 6 months ago, at my Store I work at. A "father" and his 7 or 8 year old son cam thru my line, and the boy started asking for candy. The "father" said very loudly "Don't start with me, I told you to behave!" With that, the kid sticks his tongue out at the "father"....bad move on the kids part, the "father" took one of my Hard Plastic Seperators, and whacked the kid on the left shoulder SO hard, I am pretty sure he broke a bone! Needless to say, the kid started to cry, the "Father" threatened him again with it, and after he put it down, I took it and threw it behind me on the next empty counter.

 

[Buckalew11]

I still think a lot of parents spank, hit, swat as a knee jerk reaction to getting mad at the child for misbehaving.

Poohbear123's example shows it to me. I would also punish my child for how that child was acting and then sticking their tongue out at me. I am not going allow her to disrepect me in that way. However, whacking the child with the divider is insane behavior.

Suppose someone else in line pushed ahead of him or mad him upset in some disrepecting way (another kid or even adult)? Would he have picked up the divider and whacked him with it??!! No way! he may want to but would have used some self control, I bet. Just because they are "your" child(ren) does not mean you are free to whack on them.

That is the kind of thing that gives spanking a bad rap.

 

[Chattyaholic]

A human of 2 1/2 years of age is not in full managment of the emotions they have.
Spanking IMO is fine, however, in this situation (as I read it) spanking was not the answer. A human of 2.5 years needs to be taught WHY not to do some thing with WORDS, this will assist the learning of such actions. Spakings in such situations teach nothing but fear.

I find your comments offensive. JMO

We simply have a difference of opinion, nothing to get offended about. You must get offended often if a simple difference of opinion offends you.

And so many people are saying a 2-1/2 year old isn't mature enough to understand....my grandson is that age and he understands just fine. And, before anyone jumps on me, no I have never spanked him. I don't have to. He will throw an absolute tantrum for his mother, but he knows I won't put up with that. I simply have to "give him the look" and tell him he needs to stop the tantrum. If he wouldn't stop I wouldn't hesitate to give him a couple soft smacks on his bottom, with his pull-ups and jeans on he would probably hardly feel it anyway. And like I've said before, there is a big, BIG, B-I-G difference in a "spanking" and a "beating." Some people think they are one in the same. They're not.

Oh, and hearing the little girl being spanked and crying through a closed door, not surprised. Many buildings don't have very good soundproofing. Just the other day I was at my surgeon's office, waiting for him to come in and discuss my thyroid biopsy with me and I could plainly hear everything that was said outside the room, and the door was closed. Bad, bad soundproofing!

Just because the OP could hear the little girl crying doesn't mean she was "getting a beating."

 

[U2_rocks!]

And so many people are saying a 2-1/2 year old isn't mature enough to understand....my grandson is that age and he understands just fine. And, before anyone jumps on me, no I have never spanked him. I don't have to. He will throw an absolute tantrum for his mother, but he knows I won't put up with that. I simply have to "give him the look" and tell him he needs to stop the tantrum.

You have obviously managed to make your grandson understand his limits with you without having to resort to spanking. So why defend spanking so much? You clearly don't need it. Perhaps you are more consistent with him than his mom is. Perhaps you have a firmness in your voice that she doesn't have. Could be you have even given him "logical consequences" without realizing it! Whatever it is, it is pretty clear that you can handle him just fine without physical punishment. I'm not sure why it's so important to you.

This is what people mean when they say they don't need to spank - they have found ways to correct and teach without using it. It's not that they don't discipline at all - it's that they have found other ways to get their message across, just like you have with your grandson.

 

[Liberty Belle]

I would hardly call three whacks on the butt (I'm assuming butt) child abuse.

He did give her quite a few chances.

She's 2 and a half! Re-direct, tease her, play a game...If your goal is to get her to stop crying, hitting her isn't a very good choice.

That reminds me of one time when we were at WDW. We were sitting in the theater (I think Philharmagic) and this little girl (maybe 4?) was crying in front of us. She was alone with her dad. The dad told her to stop crying or "he'd give her something to cry about." She didn't stop and the dad pulled back his hand and whacked her across the head! Not super hard, but still. I couldn't help myself, I blurted out "Oh, that will make her stop crying!" I just wanted to give that poor little girl a hug. People are such idiots.

 

[MELSMICE]

I've read the OP's story 3 times and I still fail to see any 'abuse'. Spanking is not abuse. Many parents 'drag their kids across the floor' (which is rarely as it sounds) and many kids scream out "don't" and cry away whenever they're in big trouble. It's so easy to parent from the internet and apparently the majority of DIS posters have perfect children who don't need disciplining.

Let me explain why I considered it being "dragged across the floor". She was sitting in a chair next to her mom. Her back was to her mom, she had her face in her hands & she was crying/whimpering. The dad reached across the mom, grabbed the back of the coat (it was a coat with a hood on it) at the neck, pulled her on to the floor & then he dragged her on her butt over to sit in front of him.

I consider that being dragged across the floor. Why would it ever be OK to do that to anyone - let alone a child.