I witnessed something very disturbing today (long)

[Freyja]

Speaking strictly from a CPS standard, if this incident was called in directly as reported in the OP, it would have been screened out at intake - that is, not investigated. It was not directly witnessed, there was no visible injury, presumably the spanking was with an open hand and not an object, and it doesn't sound as though the parent had malicious intent to cause injury. Now, every Dept. has some variance about how they look at these types of calls, but it is very rare for our Dept. to intervene in a "spanking" report.

That's not to say the father wasn't a jerk because a crying child won't stop crying after a spanking; they cry harder, duh!

I have re-read the OP a couple of times now and still can´t see where it is clear that the little girl was spanked. Nobody was there to whitness it. The OP heard three "strikes" and we have no idea where they landed.

 

[NotAmused]

It would be weird to hit her and then teach her to keep HER hands to herself

Completely agree!! Set an example for your kids. They WILL mimic your behaviors whether it's way in the future or when they are in school and decide to hit a classmate because that child is crying or whatever and that's what daddy does at home so they should do it too.

 

[TinkerbellMama]

Speaking strictly from a CPS standard, if this incident was called in directly as reported in the OP, it would have been screened out at intake - that is, not investigated. It was not directly witnessed, there was no visible injury, presumably the spanking was with an open hand and not an object, and it doesn't sound as though the parent had malicious intent to cause injury. Now, every Dept. has some variance about how they look at these types of calls, but it is very rare for our Dept. to intervene in a "spanking" report.

That's not to say the father wasn't a jerk because a crying child won't stop crying after a spanking; they cry harder, duh!

Although I stated I won't debate the spanking issue on this thread (and I won't), I wanted to chime in here...

You are absolutely correct. CPS wouldn't have done a flippin' thing about it. I don't think that's necessarily RIGHT, but I totally understand why not. They are extremely overwhelmed with the number of cases they have to investigate and manage at any given time. Generally, social workers struggle to keep up with their caseloads and do the best they can with the time and other resources they have at their disposal. They focus on the incidents that seem particularly abusive or provable. They want to get kids out of dangerous homes ASAP (without jumping the gun), and it's a really hard job both emotionally and logistically. They can't spend very much time on situations that may be no more than "acceptable" physical discipline (legally). However, if I felt an incident was abusive, I still would report it (and depending on my status at the time, may be legally required to do so). A history of complaints could tip the balance in the future, if they were on the fence about checking out a specific allegation.

And another point: many people think that calling CPS is going to result in children being removed from the home immediately if the report is found to be accurate. That is simply untrue except in the most egregious cases. There are a lot of steps between "Dad physically punishing child in an abusive manner" and "Dad losing custody of child"... The truth is that there aren't enough safe, appropriate foster homes or institutions for all the children who would probably be better off somewhere else, and Dad might be perfectly appropriate (by CPS standards) with a little bit of parent education. No one is going to ride in with guns blazing and file a TPR because he hit his daughter once (reported).

 

[Nikel]

If I were your child and I was misbehaving you go right ahead and give me 3 whacks on the butt!

How about your partner discipling you? Or, if your parents are still alive, them spanking you now? Would those also be okay with you?

 

[DisneyPhD]

You have obviously managed to make your grandson understand his limits with you without having to resort to spanking. So why defend spanking so much? You clearly don't need it. Perhaps you are more consistent with him than his mom is. Perhaps you have a firmness in your voice that she doesn't have. Could be you have even given him "logical consequences" without realizing it! Whatever it is, it is pretty clear that you can handle him just fine without physical punishment. I'm not sure why it's so important to you.

This is what people mean when they say they don't need to spank - they have found ways to correct and teach without using it. It's not that they don't discipline at all - it's that they have found other ways to get their message across, just like you have with your grandson.

This is a great post.

I don't believe every time a child is spanked it is child abuse. The thing is IF it could be handled in a better why, then why not?

I have spanked my DD before, and I never felt good about how I handled it. It never really worked either. Once DH and I agreed together we were not going to spank her behavior got better. I think most instance adults who spank kids just can't think of a better solution.

I never give much credit to the argument "I was spanked and I turned out fine."

People go through many bad things and turned out ok. That doesn't make what happened to them fine, it just makes them resilient. More likely they turned out fine despite the spanking, not because of it.

About the situation posted by the OP. Clearly the father was not handling the situation well. I don't know what I would have done if I was there, I think if I had my kids I would have taken them and left. I would have not stayed for them to witness it. I know it would have been upsetting for them to see an adult treat a child that way. Then again if I was there with my kids, chances are the other child would have been over with us listening to books, playing with toys and coloring.

 

[Skywalker]

They WILL mimic your behaviors whether it's way in the future or when they are in school and decide to hit a classmate because that child is crying or whatever and that's what daddy does at home so they should do it too.

I was spanked and I have never hit anyone - classmate, stranger or my children. I don't think you should speak in such absolutes.

 

[basas]

Personally, I have a very loud mouth, and I personally would not have tolerated a father hitting his 2 1/2 year old like you describe. I couldn't and wouldn't do it. I wouldn't give the father permission to do it, by doing nothing you gave him permission.

Since when does the father need your permission on how to discipline his kids? Parents are still allowed to hit their kids (and before people start posting how I'm supporting parents wacking their kids with baseball bats, obviously there are limits). As long as he wasn’t breaking any laws (and I wasn’t there but from what I’ve read, he wasn’t), there is nothing anyone can do.

 

[MELSMICE]

As long as he wasn’t breaking any laws (and I wasn’t there but from what I’ve read, he wasn’t), there is nothing anyone can do.

Law or no law, I still believe it's sad when a parent resorts to smacking a child. Just not necessary. JMO.

 

[basas]

Law or no law, I still believe it's sad when a parent resorts to smacking a child. Just not necessary. JMO.

And it's OK to be against it. Calling it child abuse, however, may not be 100% accurate. Now you actually saw the incident (I didn’t) so perhaps it was worse than what I’m picturing in my head. Perhaps this father was abusive and that (obviously) is wrong. I don’t consider spanking, however, child abuse (if that is indeed what you witnessed). I also don’t know exactly how he dragged his daughter across the room but come on, no-one here has grabbed and pulled their child somewhere when they’re mad (again, hardly child abuse)? People assume from the 2 ½ year old crying out “please, no!” that the dad is obviously abusive at home and even abusive to the wife (who one poster assumed got whipped with a belt at home). Once again, that may be the case, but more likely I think, it’s just a kid not wanting a spanking and not wanting to be yelled at. It’s hard to know exactly what the situation is when we don’t know the full story. Again, you saw it, not me.

 

[DaParkers]

A two-to-three year old is NOT capable of sitting quietly for long periods of time. Kids at this age like to run around and explore and get their energy out. I'm a child development major and this is Child Development 101 - basic, common sense. Sure, lots of two-to-three year olds have the patience to sit for a certain amount of time, but most don't and NONE of them can just sit quietly for hours on end in a doctor's office. That's why pediatrician's offices and other "business/professional" settings geared towards kids have things for kids to touch and explore and play with. As someone else said, kids are NOT little adults. They have different attention spans, obligations and moral values.

Who suggested that a kid sit quiet for hours?

 

[babieemelly]

Who suggested that a kid sit quiet for hours?

People who were saying that a two-year-old has the attention span to just sit quietly. For the father to lose his patience like that they must have been there for a while. If it wasn't a long amount of time, the fact that he had to hit his two-year-old THREE times for his inability to keep her entertained is even sadder.

 

[chibichibirei]

I'm sorry,usually I agree with spanking not being abuse, but this is too much. How in the heck is she supposed to stop whimpering and crying if he's dragged her across the floor? At 2 and a half? It's not a realistic thing. I can't even imagine what this little girl goes through every day. It would be one thing if after she was told no she just kept on digging in the purse, or something along those lines, but sitting there whimpering is not a valid excuse for this.

 

[pigletgirl]

You're probably over exaggerating. He gave her enough chances. Any 2.5 yr old is quite the pain in the butt.

 

[Hannathy]

How in the heck is she supposed to stop whimpering and crying if he's dragged her across the floor? excuse for this.

If you read her response and further explanation, he didn't drag her across the floor as in the whole way across the room. He reached over and pulled her out of her chair and to the next chair in front of her mother, hardly across the floor.
I think he over reacted but do not call it abuse and think he had every right to expect her to sit for a few minutes without fussing-maybe they needed to discuss something the DR just said- and he did tell her to stop at least 4-5 times, that would have been enough for me also.

 

[Freyja]

I am truely amazed by some of the comments on this thread. Do people really believe it is o.k to hit a 2 1/2 year old who can´t/won´t stop whimpering? Do you guys really think that this 2 1/2 year old got "enough" chances???

 

[DISUNC]

If an adult like melsmice was disturbed by this fathers actions, imagine what the poor baby felt?

Its more than a hit on the bottom, its was threats and curse words used in a abusive manner. Abusive words & actions cut deeper then a hit on the butt!

I said this on another thread recently, and will repeat it here...Any MAN who acts like that in PUBLIC...IS DOING MUCH WORSE THINGS in private.

 

[Liberty Belle]

You're probably over exaggerating. He gave her enough chances. Any 2.5 yr old is quite the pain in the butt.

I hope you do not work directly with children. Then again, maybe you don't work at all. Those last two statements make you sound very young.

 

[Freyja]

If an adult like melsmice was disturbed by this fathers actions, imagine what the poor baby felt?

Its more than a hit on the bottom, its was threats and curse words used in a abusive manner. Abusive words & actions cut deeper then a hit on the butt!

I said this on another thread recently, and will repeat it here...Any MAN who acts like that in PUBLIC...IS DOING MUCH WORSE THINGS in private.

I agree with every word.

 

[jenm2878]

My brother has never spanked either of his children, but when my niece is bad he'll pick her up and set her on the 'naughty step.' (she's almost three) She too will cry and say, "No Daddy!! No!!!!" Five minutes later she's back to smiling and laughing.


No one knows what went on the rest of the day that led up to the spanking. I've read on the DIS numerous times how people shouldn't judge others parenting based on a moment they witness. I'm not defending the man's actions, but no one really knows the whole story.

 

[Liberty Belle]

My brother has never spanked either of his children, but when my niece is bad he'll pick her up and set her on the 'naughty step.' (she's almost three) She too will cry and say, "No Daddy!! No!!!!" Five minutes later she's back to smiling and laughing.


No one knows what went on the rest of the day that led up to the spanking. I've read on the DIS numerous times how people shouldn't judge others parenting based on a moment they witness. I'm not defending the man's actions, but no one really knows the whole story.

I can't imagine what the rest of the story could possibly be to make this ok. If there was a big build up of bad behavior, I can sort of understand why the dad was so angry, but I do not think it makes what he did ok. The child is not even three yet!