I need help, I'm so confused

[Teresa Pitman]

Some parts of this make me think this is my younger self writing!

I will give you my honest opinion: you say you want to be equal,you want to not have to ask permission, you want to be treated with respect, you don't want to be called "stupid." These things say to me that this is a bad relationship. I suppose there is a possibility that your husband could change, but when you are in a relationship where you are controlled, not respected and told you are stupid, I think that is toxic.

You are right: life is too short to be stuck in that kind of relationship. Talk to your counsellor, make careful plans, and respect yourself. You deserve better.

TP

 

[Wishing on a star]

I don't think that the OP is 'just having a mid-life crisis'.

What she has described in her husband is completely unacceptable.

Just because a man does not make very specific demands and hold a woman at gunpoint does not mean that he is not being very very confining and controlling. Many women have experienced this... You start out thinking you will do the right thing, make a decision to put your own self on the back burner and devote yourself to your spouse and young children, as a wife and mother... And YES there are many, many, men who will take this, and run with it, until it becomes controlling/abusive. And, unwittingly, like the member of a cult, the woman can be a willing victim for a long time.

Some of OP's comments really and truly scare me.

The fact that she has now reached a point where she isn't tied down with two young children, etc... and realizes her situation, and that it is not 'healthy', and that she needs to become more independent, at what might be considered middle age does NOT in any way define this, IMHO, as a mid-life crisis.

What I will say to the OP is this.
I was one of the first. And, now others are making similar comments.

OP, you can't have it both ways...
You can't walk out of a marriage, and still have your Ex to totally support you financially, and in other aspects of life. Even parenting.

You will not be gaining any indepence and control if HE is providing and in control of all of the financial assets.
It really is that simple.

You are not being honest with yourself here.

Reasonable child support, while the children are minors, is ALL you can expect. Period, end of story. You are not seeing the obvious here, and you are not being honest with yourself.

What you are describing is more of an arranged 'separation'.
But this is not YOU becoming more independent.
If you have been thinking the way your posts sound, you should put this as a huge focus in your counseling immediately.
I would make a guess that this is a very big underlying issue.
Ask yourself, why would even decide to put yourself in that position????
That could be the million dollar question.

IF separating and divorcing your husband, for the reasons that you have mentioned, is the right thing to do... Then, of course, you should consider making that decision... But, don't fool yourself and look at anything thru Rose Colored Glasses.

As I had posted before...
Many, many, many, women find out the hard way that, when it comes down to business... when it comes down to the brass tacks... The husband WILL use the $$$$ as another form of control. No question.

They will even start out amicably... as your husband seems to be... which is how they will placate the woman and keep her from seeing the truth and being more aggressive, etc...

For a controlling person, when they do realize that they are not in complete control, and the other person is not submissive, and actually takes steps to walk away, this will disturb them greatly and make them angry. Do not undestimate this.

No matter what you *think* you are "ENTITLED" to.
In fact, when I saw your use of the word 'entitled' in that post, I saw a real red flag.

IF YOU DO DECIDE TO SEPARATE AT ALL, OR TO EVER CONSIDER DIVORCE, YOU NEED TO PROTECT YOURSELF. YOU NEED TO HAVE ALL OF YOUR FINANCES ESTABLISHED AND PROTECTED.

 

[Wishing on a star]

You're making the assumption that this was an overnight change. She didn't say that. Didn't she say she has been writing for two years now? How much more time does he need to adjust? Will he need two more years before he allows her to go to a convention by herself? I can put up with a lot, but I wouldn't last five minutes with someone who was controlling (spouse, friend, relative, doesn't matter).

AMEN!!!!
I have actually appreciated some of Gumbo's comments.
But, he is way off here....
It is not like they just got married and had kids... all of the sudden she is changing all of the rules....
It has been all of, what, 17 years now...
What more kind of waiting period, and 'permission', and hoping expecting that he will change who he clearly is, should be necessary at this point.

IMHO... Zero.

 

[Desnik]

.

 

[Wishing on a star]

If child care, and the money for the conference, are not issues....
Why would you let 'one look' from him be the total control?????

Like another poster asked... What would happen if you said... "Look, I understand that you do not like me taking off like this, but I have taken care of all the arrangements... etc...."

You have to be anxious and controlled by more than just 'a look'.

Again...
The million dollar questions....

 

[Gumbo4x4]

You're making the assumption that this was an overnight change. She didn't say that. Didn't she say she has been writing for two years now? How much more time does he need to adjust? Will he need two more years before he allows her to go to a convention by herself? I can put up with a lot, but I wouldn't last five minutes with someone who was controlling (spouse, friend, relative, doesn't matter).

That comment was primarily directed at PP whom I quoted, but some of it does apply to OP as well. As for controlling, frankly her insistence that he not go is every bit as controlling as his insistence that he does go.

And what you or I would tolerate is not relevant. OP has in fact tolerated this for 17+ years. Maybe there are things you & I would tolerate that she wouldn't. Doesn't matter. She has helped create the situation she's in and she will have to do some of the work required to fix it. If that means letting him come along on this first convention, that would be a nice compromise IMO. Certainly better than not going at all (which is what she's always done before). Right now, they are both in therapy, which is a good thing. Ultimatums are not what's needed here.

 

[CC72197]

Like a dope I posted from my phone! I really just don't want him seeing this cause he knows I come here often.

Here's what I edited:

I really can't thank you all enough & please don't apologize for stating how you all feel. I don't take it the wrong way or think anyone is being mean. I understand you are all trying to make sure I see the big picture & making sure I realize what leaving would really entail.

I do want to just clear up that I didn't start writing last week & then told my husband I want to to out of state conventions. I have been writing for 4 years & have been published for 2 years. I've gone to conventions in my state with him. I have said I would love to go to one major one that is out of state & with just a look from him I know it's out of the question. It's almost like he doesn't want me to have anything outside if him. Childcare if I go isn't an issue. Money isn't an issue I wouldn't be taking it away from us. It's his insecurity that's the issue & maybe even a little jealousy. He is also at a crossroads with his career possibly making a big change & I know he truly isn't happy with himself

 

[Wishing on a star]

Gumbo, yes, one has always contributed to/enabled the situation that they are in. It does take two to tango. I am totally with you on that one. The OP really needs to find out, for herself, why she has allowed and enabled her to find herself in this situation, and can STILL not begin to see herself independent of this man.

I believe that the OP posts that her husband is actually moving out....
(Which is another reason why it is beyond my understanding why she feels she needs 'permission' to go to this convention meeting.)
You can try to use semantics like 'ultimatum' all you want.
But, with him moving out, possible counseling, etc...
It isn't about ultimatums... It is about what expectations of me and treatment of me are no longer acceptable....

But, I still think that you are not seeing the real issues here, with the example being that he just is NOT supporting her to go anywhere, especially this convention. Either with him, or without him.

When one is in a confining and controlling relationship, there should never be any lengthy time-frame or waiting period. Really... That simple.

She posts that these issues with him have gone on since the beginning, many many years...
At some point, one can and should be able to call... 'Game Over'.

 

[CC72197]

If child care, and the money for the conference, are not issues....
Why would you let 'one look' from him be the total control?????

Like another poster asked... What would happen if you said... "Look, I understand that you do not like me taking off like this, but I have taken care of all the arrangements... etc...."

You have to be anxious and controlled by more than just 'a look'.

Again...
The million dollar questions....

There was abuse in the past, but not for 15 years. But... I guess I still fear him. Do I think he'll put his hands on me? No, but I still fear him. I know this sounds crazy.

That comment was primarily directed at PP whom I quoted, but some of it does apply to OP as well. As for controlling, frankly her insistence that he not go is every bit as controlling as his insistence that he does go.

And what you or I would tolerate is not relevant. OP has in fact tolerated this for 17+ years. Maybe there are things you & I would tolerate that she wouldn't. Doesn't matter. She has helped create the situation she's in and she will have to do some of the work required to fix it. If that means letting him come along on this first convention, that would be a nice compromise IMO. Certainly better than not going at all (which is what she's always done before). Right now, they are both in therapy, which is a good thing. Ultimatums are not what's needed here.

See my post above. This isn't the first convention. We have gone together.

 

[Mortlives]

There was abuse in the past, but not for 15 years. But... I guess I still fear him. Do I think he'll put his hands on me? No, but I still fear him. I know this sounds crazy.



See my post above. This isn't the first convention. We have gone together.

No, it doesn't sound crazy at all. And this sort of imbalance of power definitely needs to be fixed. I am glad you are getting counselling.

 

[CC72197]

And I know how I got myself in this. I had a low self esteem and lots of daddy issues. I come from a long line of dysfunction & have been in therapy on and off since I was 12. I've tried my best to get myself in a better place within myself for a long time. I have always taken accountability for my part in things, even when I was getting abused. I am not a finger pointer and I am not a victim. I'm in a really bad place right now & I'm trying to get on my feet.

 

[Robinrs]

So, I send you many hugs...

You can send me a PM if you would like to hear more details of my situation, and any thoughts or small words of advice that I might have.

You do have a place to vent and some support here on the DIS!

You ARE kidding, right? Support and the DIS should never be in the same sentence.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

See my post above. This isn't the first convention. We have gone together.

I did miss that before.

 

[Wishing on a star]

For example, there is a book convention coming up. I can't go cause he simply will not let me go without him.

This one quote really says it all....

Any suggestion that this would be okay, whether the woman had tried to accept or put up with it for many years or not, is almost scary...

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Gumbo, yes, one has always contributed to/enabled the situation that they are in. It does take two to tango. I am totally with you on that one. The OP really needs to find out, for herself, why she has allowed and enabled her to find herself in this situation, and can STILL not begin to see herself independent of this man.

I believe that the OP posts that her husband is actually moving out....
(Which is another reason why it is beyond my understanding why she feels she needs 'permission' to go to this convention meeting.)
You can try to use semantics like 'ultimatum' all you want.
But, with him moving out, possible counseling, etc...
It isn't about ultimatums... It is about what expectations of me and treatment of me are no longer acceptable....

But, I still think that you are not seeing the real issues here, with the example being that he just is NOT supporting her to go anywhere, especially this convention. Either with him, or without him.

When one is in a confining and controlling relationship, there should never be any lengthy time-frame or waiting period. Really... That simple.

She posts that these issues with him have gone on since the beginning, many many years...
At some point, one can and should be able to call... 'Game Over'.

No, I believe he has real issues to work out. I just think it will be a long and painful process for him and will take time. And "game over", while an option, should really be the last resort.

 

[Wishing on a star]

OP, would your dad have been a very controlling individual?

 

[CC72197]

OP, would your dad have been a very controlling individual?

No. He was a drug addict (heavy stuff like heroin) and alcoholic and provided financially but nothing else. He was clean for 20 years and recently started drinking, taking prescription drugs and who knows what else.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Here is what I tell myself OP....

To sit there and berate yourself about the past is not useful and is wasted energy.

Instead, wake up everyday and decide to do something that will make a change for the better for your future.

That is how I choose to live life.

 

[DVCJones]

I'll add this too. I don't like who I've become since I've been with him. I've taken on some of his bad qualities like being judgemental and materialistic. I know who I am in my heart and it's not the person I've become since being with him.

Interesting self-reflection....

Is it possible to change this qualities about yourself without breaking up the marriage? I'm not saying you shouldn't end your marriage, but ultimately, YOU are responsible for your own actions. You don't have to be anyone you don't want to be.

Maybe you could work on all the things you want to change in yourself. Regardless if you H supports you. Start pushing back for your independence. Who says you can't go on that trip? You are a grown woman and CAN do what you want. Maybe just maybe, you have made it too easy for him to put you in this position. Please know that I am not judging you. Just trying to see that YOU can do things without his permission. If you do this, it may very well lead to a divorce if he can't handle the new (stronger) you. But, at least you will know you are being true to yourself. Don't give him anymore of your power. You are a grown woman and can have professional goals and dreams too. Maybe he will come around and support you. Especially if you bring up how important it is to you in counseling...

Good luck. Hugs!!!

 

[leebee]

Interesting self-reflection....

Is it possible to change this qualities about yourself without breaking up the marriage? I'm not saying you shouldn't end your marriage, but ultimately, YOU are responsible for your own actions. You don't have to be anyone you don't want to be.

Maybe you could work on all the things you want to change in yourself. Regardless if you H supports you. Start pushing back for your independence. Who says you can't go on that trip? You are a grown woman and CAN do what you want. Maybe just maybe, you have made it too easy for him to put you in this position. Please know that I am not judging you. Just trying to see that YOU can do things without his permission. If you do this, it may very well lead to a divorce if he can't handle the new (stronger) you. But, at least you will know you are being true to yourself. Don't give him anymore of your power. You are a grown woman and can have professional goals and dreams too. Maybe he will come around and support you. Especially if you bring up how important it is to you in counseling...

Good luck. Hugs!!!

I agree with the above. You are a grown adult; you don't need his permission for anything, especially with money and child care NOT issues. What will he do if you go to the conference? Just tell him you are going. You mentioned it to him already… did he come right out and forbid you to go, or did you just interpret his look? GO. If he physically stops you from going, or harms you at all, you'll have the answer. Also, start being proactive. Get a job. Doesn't matter what kind of a job. Find something that you enjoy doing, or maybe even not enjoy too much, during school hours so child care/transportation aren't the issue. Start being more independent. How strong a hold over you that you let him have is YOUR decision. I know it's scary… but it should be far scarier to contemplate leaving without any kind of plan. I know, I was there at one point, but it was clear that there was no way I could support myself and DD (who was 3 at the time) even with child support. You need to determine a way to work forward towards your goal of being independent; moving out/divorcing won't automatically make you independent. Set a goal and move towards it with baby steps. Let your DH know you want/need to become more self-sufficient if this marriage is to stay intact, and keep him informed of your plans. DON"T just divorce and think that's going to solve things… because it's NOT. If you are financially dependent on him via child support and spousal support, he still holds the reins. Look at it like a 5 year plan… start standing up for yourself, having some "things" (interests, hobbies, friends) of your own, find a job (or even volunteer work), and see how it goes. Re-evaluate annually. See how you feel about your life. I will tell you that at the time I considered leaving, I felt horrible all the time. I'd wake up in the morning and it'd feel like there was no air to breathe in the house. That was 17 years ago, and I can say with a clear conscience, I am GLAD I didn't leave. Neither of us are who we were then, and our relationship wasn't what it was then. There was no easy fix… it definitely took work on both parts… but I am glad I didn't throw in the towel due to my unhappiness at the time. Good luck.