I love credit cards so much! v3.0 (see first page for add'l details)

[GZanta77]

If I have never had a CIU before and I PC a CIP to a CIU am I then ineligible to eventually get a SUB on a CIU ?

As things stand, you can still get a CIU SUB in the future ....... Chase is not as restrictive as Amex in this regard.

 

[wisconsinmom]

Marriott Boundless FN certificate has posted to my account, which is my reminder that an annual fee is about to hit - time to close this card methinks. The 35k cert has been seriously devalued over the last couple years - Chase should be offering a 50k certifcate to maintain the value the 35k cert had 2 years ago. Oh well, Bonvoy!

Good point! My DH's Amex Marriott fee just posted. I think I need to cancel that card. Anyone know if Amex will cancel via SM or if I need him to call?

 

[elgerber]

Good point! My DH's Amex Marriott fee just posted. I think I need to cancel that card. Anyone know if Amex will cancel via SM or if I need him to call?

They will cancel via chat.

 

[palhockeymomof2]

If I have never had a CIU before and I PC a CIP to a CIU am I then ineligible to eventually get a SUB on a CIU ?

If the rules stay the same....you could PC the CIU to a CIC then apply for a CIU

 

[havaneselover]

Disney Parks Monopoly, anyone?

https://www.shopdisney.com/disney-p...ductSearch=1&plpPosition=1&searchType=regular
I think it's cool but not sure it's $50 cool

 

[AmyAnne]

The plain Arrival has only been available as a downgrade option, it stopped accepting applications in 2017. And last year Barclays nixed the Arrival+ applications (for the 2nd time in two years) sometime in the summer. If you SM and successfully get it PC'd to the plain Arrival, please report back. The $100 minimum redemption is so annoying.

I did this a while ago (called, though, not SM). But I never use the downgraded card and am wondering if there's any point in keeping it (and maybe using it some?).

 

[ctinct]

Lol. SW credited me points for the companion pass, too, except I was only a few hundred points shy of making it, and as soon as my next statement closes, I would have been there. It was super, super nice of them to do, but in my case, I’m no longer planning on flying anywhere soon, so really not necessary. Because I’m in a slightly more at risk category, I’m just hoping things settle down enough so that I can use the companion pass a few times next year. Appreciate their generosity and customer service, though! They’re sure keeping a lot of their passengers loyal and happy. (As opposed to United. Bah, humbug.)

 

[StephPlum]

Best part of having a 22 year old in the house - I can send him to the store for my wine pickup. Rough day at work and I need a break!

 

[mom2elal]

So if dh last got the SW bonus 7/18, do we have to wait until July for him to apply, or do we just have to make sure that he qualifies for the bonus after July?

 

[Minnie368]

Can anyone give me some tips on what you do as far as freezing/unfreezing credit reports before applying for a card? I thought I had read about some who freeze one or two of the bureaus before applying so that the inquiry only hits one? Just wondering if those of you with lots of experience do this- and if so, which reports do you freeze for which cards? Thanks!

 

[palhockeymomof2]

So if dh last got the SW bonus 7/18, do we have to wait until July for him to apply, or do we just have to make sure that he qualifies for the bonus after July?

Unfortunately You have to wait until July for him to apply

 

[becauseimnew]

Marriott Boundless FN certificate has posted to my account, which is my reminder that an annual fee is about to hit - time to close this card methinks. The 35k cert has been seriously devalued over the last couple years - Chase should be offering a 50k certifcate to maintain the value the 35k cert had 2 years ago. Oh well, Bonvoy!

Fairfield Anaheim Resort is still a category 5, we used 2 of our certificates there in Feb - rooms were $200+ a night.

 

[Tbiafore]

Great site, thanks for all that put this together. Will be a regular visit for me as we plan out our up coming trip.

 

[happ]

Does anyone know what the lowest CL you can have on the IHG cards are? DH and I both have the old Club card that's no longer offered, and the Premier. Seems like a lot of CL across these 4 cards, but we keep them for the FNC.

I don't know the lowest, but I have my old IHG card at 2k.

 

[Crazed4DisneyinSC]

I don't know the lowest, but I have my old IHG card at 2k.

That helps! We have all ours at $5K right now, so if we lower them all to $2K, that frees up some CL with Chase. Thanks!!

 

[wanderlust7]

Can anyone give me some tips on what you do as far as freezing/unfreezing credit reports before applying for a card? I thought I had read about some who freeze one or two of the bureaus before applying so that the inquiry only hits one? Just wondering if those of you with lots of experience do this- and if so, which reports do you freeze for which cards? Thanks!

Amex often doesn't do a hard pull on existing customers. Capital One will pull all 3. Chase depends on the state. DoC has a list, though I don't know how updated it is.

https://www.doctorofcredit.com/knowledge-base/which-credit-bureau-does-chase-pull/
I've never frozen a report to prevent a pull. Seems highly YMMV. After reading DPs of it on r/churning, decided that to me it wasn't worth the denial risk or hassle of having to call.

 

[SouthFayetteFan]

Great site, thanks for all that put this together. Will be a regular visit for me as we plan out our up coming trip.

Welcome to the greatest thread on the DISboards

 

[SouthFayetteFan]

Does anyone know what the lowest CL you can have on the IHG cards are? DH and I both have the old Club card that's no longer offered, and the Premier. Seems like a lot of CL across these 4 cards, but we keep them for the FNC.

It feels like it depends on the agent you speak to. Sometimes I'm told $500 and sometimes $1,000. One time, they tried $500 and accidentally closed my card - that was a MESS. I now just stick with $1k to be safe.

 

[calypso726]

From the critically acclaimed and ever popular series Fireside chats with @SouthFayetteFan comes the newest installment:
"What Now? How to Re-calibrate Your Churning Strategy"
(WARNING - THIS IS GOING TO BE SUPER LONG!)

I know many of you out there are wondering how to navigate the new reality in 2020. And no...I'm not talking about some pandemic - I'm talking about the fact that Chase Business Cards might be dead (or at the very least they are highly hit or miss with many more "misses" than "hits" lately).

First, a brief history lesson:
Imagine if you will a simpler churning time where 5/24 did not exist. Where a churner could pursue any card their heart desired. To some this may seem like a fairy tale land that could never have existed, but for the old guard, we remember it fondly as the golden era of churning. In my humble opinion, the introduction of 5/24 in early 2015 was the most impactful change to churning strategy that has ever occurred. Others may argue it was Amex introducing once per lifetime, but I hold to the fact that 5/24, the timing of when it was introduced, and subsequent fall-out with other issuers after the fact changed the churning landscape forever.

When 5/24 came along, suddenly the "get all the cards, as quickly as possible" strategy came into question. It actually took quite awhile for us to figure out that Chase business cards did NOT count in the "5" (although they were still subject to the 5/24 rule) - that fact I believe was discovered later in 2016. So as things evolved, for people who valued their <5/24 status, the strategy of all biz cards became very valuable. For those under 5/24, Chase biz cards were a lucrative way to protect your 5/24 status and continue to rake in URs. For those over 5/24 trying to get back under, biz cards from other issuers were a godsend.

I employed such a strategy throughout much of 2016-2018 when getting back under 5/24. From June 2016 until now my wife has gotten 15 cards and 13 of them were for her small business. For me, it started in Oct of 2017 when I got 10 straight business cards until recently going for a SW personal offer.

Nonetheless, once one obtained a sub 5/24 status (or for somebody starting out) if you had a qualifying small business, it has been relatively easy to maintain that precious status through Chase's extensive lineup of great biz card offers! That is...until recently:

So what's changed:
Thanks for bearing with me on the history lesson. As you might know, churning history is one of my hobbies (yes, I realize how pathetic that in addition having credit cards be a hobby of mine... the history of credit card offers is also a hobby... but I digress)...

Let's go over the recent plethora of (bad) news:

• Late March: CIP introduces a public 100k UR/$15k MSR offer
• Just days later: I write-up a fireside chat hypothesizing that 80k UR CIP support links might be doomed
• April 1st: That hypothesis starts to appear like a reality as the ability to generate new CIP links is taken away
• As April continues: Existing links continue to work...but it feels like it's only a matter of time. At some point during the month, the ability to generate CIU/CIP links also disappears.
• April 16th: Chase makes some major changes to their business card application format and appears to tighten up on sole prop approvals.
• Days Ago: I share additional thoughts on the disappearance of support links.

And as you likely have read on the thread, there are scattered DPs of biz card applications going immediately to 7-10 days, and getting flat out denied. Few and far between are the success stories, and they are unexplainable... there does not appear to be a "secret sauce" to getting a Chase Biz card right now. I know that some of us are searching for the "reason" behind this (is it COVID, if not, what is it?)... truthfully it doesn't matter. I would assume that this change is permanent. Rarely does something change for the negative in this game and then later get better again. It's a shame, but it's often true - embrace this as the new reality.

So where does this leave us?
- We cannot assume that Chase business cards will be a part of our go forward strategy.
This should come as no surprise. There are constant warnings on the thread and in different forums/blogs that the only constant in churning is change. Some might remember in a previous fireside chat that I HIGHLY recommended going for 2 Chase SW Biz cards to reach your CP this year leaving the personal option open for the future. I promise I have no insider information here, I just sometimes take really good guesses... But again, assume this is a permanent change.

- STOP cancelling your existing Chase Biz cards when the AF posts.
This might be your last chance to hold a CIP, CIC, or CIU. With the game constantly in flux, you want to keep these cards OPEN so you could PC them in the future if something good comes along. Also, try to keep ample Biz Credit Limit available across those cards so that you can use it to PC in the future if necessary. I might consider holding 2 CICs right now vs. cancelling a CIP. What if the long-rumored Chase Ink Reserve comes along and you want it due to some awesome benefits? You gotta have an open card to do a PC to grab it! If you think I'm crazy here, just ask the people who hold the old Chase Ink+ how they feel about that card (am I right, @calypso726 and @Albort ???)

EDIT: To be clear, I’m not advocating for people to pay AFs. Just don’t cancel the card! PC it to a CIC or a CIU and avoid the AF. IF you cancel you might never get a CIC in the future. I’d rather have 3 CICs now than cancel 2 of my Chase biz cards and only have 1. IF I want a CIP again the future for some purpose (it to transfer URs to partners) I need a card to PC from. I have NEVER regretted PCing a card and leaving it open. You can always call back and cancel it tomorrow, or a month from now, or a year from now!

- ADDENDUM: Assess how you should best manage your Chase credit limits.
A wise person (aka @Lain) mentioned that this would be a good time to also call out that certain PCs require a minimum CL. We've seen that PCing a biz card often requires at least $5k in CL. PCing to a CSR might require $10k. These policies can vary a bit by card, but it's important to keep enough CL available to complete these PCs when necessary. It's also important to note that you can easily transfer CL between personal cards, or between business cards (but not between the 2 categories) very easily by calling in or even via SM. So each card doesn't need to keep significant CL on it, BUT overall you need to have enough CL to effectively accomplish a PC. (It's also possible to increase CLs down the line if you agree to a credit pull but I would be especially wary of doing this on biz cards as it could spark a review of your account and not bring a favorable result!)

- Familiarize yourself with all other Biz Card issuers:

• American Express remains a fickle beast. The pop-up always looms, keeping in their good graces with ongoing spend can be difficult, BUT they might become an important part of your future strategy. Focus on all-time best offers as the once per lifetime rule makes all of their cards "un-churnable".
• Citi has limited biz card options but if you can find a good use for AA miles that card seems like a no-brainer to mix in while preserving your 5/24 status. Make sure it's at a high offer because once you get it, you're locked out for 48 months. And don't play games with Citi sign-up offers because they will come for you, they will find you, and they will kill you... (or at least shut you down).
• Barclays is a great mystery. They have some decent biz cards out there but they are inconsistent in their application procedures. It seems like you want to have some sort to biz card history before going with them (maybe?) or they might ask for lots of entity documents and proof of business income. Again, they are very inconsistent with this so don't let it spook you from trying them.
• Bank of America should die a slow painful death... Oh, wait - they haven't wronged your family yet? Well they will... but for those able to get approved, they have some decent biz cards. I hate them and always will - but don't let my personal vendetta stand in the way of lucrative offers. Also be advised that they have inconsistent application procedures and might ask for entity documents and proof of business income.
• Others: There are others out there. If you find a good offer or have a good "other" biz card - please share with the group! Also, be wary of any biz card issuers (Cap1 for example) that show up on your personal credit report. That achieves nothing as it still hits your "5" count in the 5/24 status.

- Evaluate if staying under 5/24 still makes sense:
As a group, we are primarily slow churners. I think the majority of us here are <5/24. That's ok...people on r/churning might make fun of us, but that's not cool, because as I've said many times: there's no wrong way to churn. That said, this new situation could be a game changer for YOU. Evaluate if <5/24 is the right strategy going forward. And if you're in 2 player mode, perhaps you go half and half. To be clear, I'm not saying that this is the RIGHT answer... I'm just saying it warrants consideration.

If you're eligible and haven't gotten a CSP and/or CSR yet, think about how long 48 months is. Get them NOW because 2024 is a long way away (the next time you'll be able to churn them). If you have a CSP/CSR in your past, figure out when you're eligible again and is it worth waiting around for that? If your plan is to churn SW personal cards and CSP/CSR going forward, you're going to need to fill in A LOT of gaps between the one-sapphire, one-southwest, and 24month and 48month rules respectively.

- If you decide to break out of 5/24:
While you're still under, make sure to get the cards you want, because you might never get them again. If you want a Hyatt card, a SW card, a Freedom...get them before you go over. And consider doing a 4/24 MDD to push the envelope and get that one extra Chase card. Also, NEVER close your Chase cards unless you're sure you won't want them in the future. Remember what I said earlier about being able to PC - you have to have open cards to do that! And that principle would also apply to personal cards for those >5/24.

- I have REALLY high organic spend...what should I do:
You're going to find that attempting to stay <5/24 will leave your without an MSR a lot of the time. BUT even going >5/24 could cause you issues because of Amex Popups and other things. Face the facts...with high organic spend you cannot always be MSRing... I know, that's sad, but it's your reality! Prioritize cards with category bonuses that work to your advantage. Have a Chase Freedom, a CIC, an Amex Gold, an Amex BBP, an Amex BCP (or others that fit your spending pattern) in your arsenal to earn major points in certain categories. Be strategic with your new cards and keep Amex happy with regular spend across all of your cards.

- We should immediately stop advising newbies to attempt Chase business cards.
An inquiry and a denial out of the gate is probably a tough way to start the game. I've adjusted my header comment on the CIP discussion thread on DISchurners as a result of this. I would not necessarily dissuade somebody from attempting a Chase Biz card, but since we ALWAYS provide the best advice here, you need to call out the risks. Other biz cards should probably still be emphasized though where appropriate (but keep in mind what was previously mentioned on this topic).

I'd also remind people that inquiries do not hurt your credit score in a large way so it's not necessarily a huge risk to try something. If somebody's score drops, IMO - it's not due to a simple inquiry. It's probably utilization or something else at play which can easily fix itself a month later.

- So what SHOULD we tell newbies:
Well, that's tricky. I think it's important to emphasize how biz cards can help them extend their <5/24 status. Make sure they're aware of the pitfalls of Amex (one card and then pop-up purgatory is a tough way to start); but emphasize that small biz cards are still a viable strategy. Also make them aware of the 48 month rule and one-sapphire rule on CSP and CSR. Getting a CSP and/or CSR out of the gate could make sense to get that 48 month clock ticking.

The MAJOR takeaway here though: I'd tell them to pause and take in all of the advice before making a move. 5/24 slots are basically like GOLD now so we want to be careful in rushing a newbie to a decision that might not be the best for them.

So what's this all mean? Is churning dead??
Of course not, you've heard me say this a million times before: the game will change but it will also live on! BUT it will require us to adapt and be more thoughtful with our strategy. Some might decide to go in a whole new direction, others may stay the course are <5/24 but with adaptations to make it work. I hope that we can all find a lucrative path forward in this new reality!

Not gonna type out majorly like @SouthFayetteFan but ill gather my inputs on top to add to his chat.

As for SFF's quote on AFs, I dont recall seeing any downsides in cancelling your Chase cards at the 1 year mark. It looks bad, but Chase doesnt seem to care. the exception is we do see denials for cancelling your card within a year.
Amex is a whole different story, its best to keep those cards past 1 year, even 2. This, we see a lot of DPs of account closures and let us not forget Poptarts.

i think short run wise, we should all hold off on apping, work heavily on the categories. the more cards you obtain now, may get the banks scared esp during this harsh reality.
long run wise, i think the offers will get better. we seen that a recession does us good as the cc companies want us to heavily use our cards. The banks currently have good deals with their partners (ie marriott and United have sold a substantial amount of points to chase at a cheap rate), its only a matter of time before those big bonuses will pass down to us, so its a good time to chill ur lol/24 down.

just my two cents.

Chiming in late to the discussion. I've always said there is only one certainty in this hobby and that is change. Therefore, to be successful, one needs to adapt, switch gears and implement a new strategy when the game changes. This year is a perfect example of things not going how we planned. My initial plans for this year included getting under 5/24 for the first time since 2012, just to pick up a Hyatt card. Then, decided I could pick up a CIP first while under 5/24 and a Hyatt right after. I was hoping to get an upgrade offer on my no fee Hilton to a second Aspire card. I was implementing "plan shuffle around Chase and Amex Bon-Blah cards" to make room for another Amex slot. Most of you know I love FN certs. Now, we find ourselves living in level 5 of Jumanji. Seriously, murder hornets?! Hey 2020! There's a director that wants their B movie script back! But I digress. The absolute last thing I need right now is another FN cert. So, my Hyatt card can wait until closer to the end of the year and I am happy that the Hilton no fee card has no upgrade offer yet. I was going to try to wait out my Bonblah Brilliant FN to post before downgrading and get a pro rated AF, but I doubt I'll bother and just PC it when it hits. I'm not even rushing to hit the MSR on my CIP. The shirt I'm wearing below went towards the MSR on my CIP. As a safety consultant, I'd say the tee shirt counts as a business expense. Safety First! So I find myself in a new and different landscape of churning. Slow churning. That's new. I may decide to go for a CIU in a few months, if for nothing more than to see what kind of a DP I can add to the new equation. I'm ok with slow churning this year since there is nothing new or exciting in the cc world at the moment for me. Plus, I'm not planning any travel at the moment.

I agree with @Albort and in the short term I am going to stay under 5/24 which was never the plan for this year. The plan was to go right back on the road to LOL/24. I don't want to appear risky to any of the banks at this time. I also agree with @SouthFayetteFan on keeping cards. I have no problem with AFs if the card gives me greater value than the AF. I'd rather keep the card and enjoy the perk or value over churning the card. It has the added bonus that I look less like a gamer too. I am glad I still have the old Ink Plus which is no longer available. When my CIP AF comes due I will PC the card. I will be doing the same with my CSR later this year. I won't be cancelling anything that can be PCd instead.

 

[Psychodisney]

Mine too! And they extended my free A-list through the end of the year.

Nice of southwest to extend free A list (I wish I had it!). AA did not extend free status