I Can't Stand Any More!!!

[des1954]

Maybe we need to start a Fort fiends lottery club, this whole "work" thing is highly over rated.

Now THAT's a stimulus plan worth looking into, Scott! No wonder you're Gus' favorite family! Well, that plus your culinary skills!

 

[AuburnJen92]

Speaking from someone that knows what you are going through...chin up and keep praying that God will find you a way to survive. I have been screaming a lot lately myself...I am sure you have heard!

 

[LarryJ]

It's happening again and there is nothing I can do about it!!!

In June, my husband started yet another job. It's a commission sales job with a draw. The draw is (or should I say was) livable, and the commissions are fair. He won't get rich .... but it's an honest living selling homes in a 55+ community. His paycheck this week was HALF of what it should be. He called his boss yesterday and was told he hit the cap allowance of his draw. HE WAS NEVER TOLD THERE WAS A CAP ALLOWANCE!!!

How can I be sure he wasn't told? A good friend of Rick's (also in 55+ community sales) was recently hired by the same company - different development - and I called him without Rick's knowledge to ask if anything about a "draw cap" was mentioned to him when he was hired. He was shocked to hear about this - and, no, nothing was said to him. I may have opened a can of worms because our friend is going to have a "show down" with the manager about this one little detail that was omitted.

I don't think I can take any more of this crap! Of course, Rick hit the job boards on the internet - AGAIN - and as usual, there is nothing out there. He's physically limited due to severe arthritis in his knees - so he can't do anything that will require a lot of standing.

To add to this, I checked into the possibility of Rick qualifying for SS disability, and guess what??? He's made too much money this year. He will always make too much money because we draw a stipend from our IRA, monthly. It is not based solely on the disability, but the disability coupled with how much money you make.

Naturally, I went into panic mode and started screaming like a banshee - which makes nothing any better.

We're going to have to do what I don't want to do - but have no other choice in order to give me peace of mind. We are calling the company that manages our IRA and increasing our stipend to cover monthly what Rick will no longer be getting. I should feel thankful that we have that, but, S**T!!! If I live past 70 years old, I will most likely be a pauper by then. We worked hard all our lives, dilligently saved and invested for retirement, only to have the rug pulled out at the time of our lives we cannot re-build our investments.

We've decided that Rick will continue to job search - and in the meantime - any commissions he makes will be solely devoted to paying off the house and the motor home - in that order. Hopefully, retirement home sales will pick up and we can get to the point where I don't live with this crappy knot in my stomach all the time. I'm ready to just say "F" it, and default on the MH & let the bank have it - but I could not live with myself if I actually did that. It wouldn't do any good - because like most of us with RV payments, we're upside down on the loan. I'm just at my wit's end and don't know how much more of this I can take!!!!

Sorry for venting....but I consider you folks my family and needed to get this out of my system. Thanks for listening.

While I feel for you, you I think are close to the same age as us (59 to 61) or even a couple of years older since you are drawing on an IRA that is limited to folks older than 59 1/2 w/o penalities.

I will be 62 early next year and I retired from the Navy in 1990 and have never worked since. We live in one the the highest priced areas of the US in Northern Virginia just outside of D.C. At that time I had our home paid off and completely debit free and have never paid interest on anything since then except for about 5 years on a Home Equity LOC to buy a car when my wife was a realtor and that was because the deductions made the loan less than using savings interest wise. Between 1990 and around 2006 while the DW was a realtor we banked some $$, but still lived day to day off what I got from the Navy and used her extra money for fun things.

Not really directed at you, but in general now having done this retirement thing for close to 20 years .... as a retiree nevedr finance anything unless a must have for living that the base funds won't pay for and you can afford long term. IMHO it seems like this is where you might have made a misstep. You evidently have both a home mortgage and a fairly large RV loan that your retirement funds and IRA draw down can't sustain long term w/o more funds coming in from work related jobs. As a retiree you can never depend on extra outside income to sustain your life style IMHO.

While this is all water under the bridge, way back when we got married almost 40 years ago, we always lived within our means, put a little aside and never bought stuff we really couldn't afford or finance things since interest is your money wasted. It has served us well and now with my upcoming $1200+ a month pay raise when I get my SS early next year we feel very comfortable in where we are.

I hope everything works out for you and that you don't take my post as a slam on you, or what you did or are doing because that was not the purpose of my post, since I only provided the information for others to consider as they approach this retirement thing.

Larry

 

[RvUsa]

LOL, love ya Deb!

 

[Born 2 Fish]

 

[des1954]

While I feel for you, you I think are close to the same age as us (59 to 61) or even a couple of years older since you are drawing on an IRA that is limited to folks older than 59 1/2 w/o penalities.

I will be 62 early next year and I retired from the Navy in 1990 and have never worked since. We live in one the the highest priced areas of the US in Northern Virginia just outside of D.C. At that time I had our home paid off and completely debit free and have never paid interest on anything since then except for about 5 years on a Home Equity LOC to buy a car when my wife was a realtor and that was because the deductions made the loan less than using savings interest wise. Between 1990 and around 2006 while the DW was a realtor we banked some $$, but still lived day to day off what I got from the Navy and used her extra money for fun things.

Not really directed at you, but in general now having done this retirement thing for close to 20 years .... as a retiree nevedr finance anything unless a must have for living that the base funds won't pay for and you can afford long term. IMHO it seems like this is where you might have made a misstep. You evidently have both a home mortgage and a fairly large RV loan that your retirement funds and IRA draw down can't sustain long term w/o more funds coming in from work related jobs. As a retiree you can never depend on extra outside income to sustain your life style IMHO.

While this is all water under the bridge, way back when we got married almost 40 years ago, we always lived within our means, put a little aside and never bought stuff we really couldn't afford or finance things since interest is your money wasted. It has served us well and now with my upcoming $1200+ a month pay raise when I get my SS early next year we feel very comfortable in where we are.

I hope everything works out for you and that you don't take my post as a slam on you, or what you did or are doing because that was not the purpose of my post, since I only provided the information for others to consider as they approach this retirement thing.

Larry

No, Larry. I don't take this as a slam, at all. As a matter of fact, it IS very sage advice for those looking ahead to retirement. We did just that, and had a very nice nest egg built up. The only mistake we made was selling our former home too early. If we had waited just 2 more years, we would have doubled the earnings on our former home & been able to pay cash for the one we live in now. We didn't have our crystal ball plugged in that year. (LOL)

One point of fact is, you can draw from your IRA before 59 1/2, you just pay higher taxes on it. Rick is 56 & I'm 55. We had our investment built up to a VERY comfortable amount prior to the economy tanking in 2007. We lost over half because we didn't see what was coming (no one did) and get the money moved to more secure investments. I used to joke prior to '07 that we should bite the bullet, pull out an amount to pay off the mortgage & motor home. We LOST more than that amount, plus enough to pay cash for a couple of BMW's. Hind-sight is 20/20. We both retired young from Verizon - age 49 and after 30 year careers. We had nice incentives to retire early, and if we had waited until the traditional 59 1/2 to retire, we would have been stuck with a monthly pension instead of a cash buy-out for our earned retirement. When we retired, Enron & Xerox were the "buzz" because all their retiree's lost out entirely. We did not want the possibility of that happening to us.

We knew we would need to work until SS age, and Rick had a good job with a Lincoln Dealership that he got laid off from in 2007. After 40 years of business - the dealership closed in mid 2008. Up until last month, I took a 2nd job because there are NO jobs out there (especially if you're over 50), unless you want to work for minimum wage. After Rick lost his job, his unemployment was almost twice what a minimum wage job paid - so no sense working at McDonald's.

Rick will be meeting with his manager this week for some explanations. The biggest question we want answered is....why are Rick's counterparts at the company's other 14 developments in Florida getting checks every payday? Rick has only been with this company for 5 months and has sold 3 homes. The salespeople receive monthly reports showing total sales for the corporation for the year, and Rick is in 2nd place this year. Most salespeople have not sold the first home - and you can't tell me they are working for free. Selling any homes in the dead of summer, in a retirement community, in Florida, in a bad economy, is almost unheard of. He's kinda of stuck, because he has about 6 customers just waiting until after the holidays to purchase homes. If he walks away now, he'll lose out on a lot of $$$ in commissions.

Rick is going to talk to our investor today and see what other options are open to us. We may just have to increase our stipend, and hope that the economy recovers like it did between 2002 & 2007. We'll make it - just not the way we would choose to.

John - you are too funny! (LOL)

 

[Just Beachy]

Deb, I love you! I hate that bad things happen to good people like you. I pray that God takes care of you and the rest of my friends and family (and me, too!) through this financial mess. Anytime you want to vent, I'm here to listen.

 

[2goofycampers]

Deb, please hang in there, I know it's not easy at times. Alot of people who "had it made" no longer do. We just got to get thru one day at a time. If you need to vent we are here for you.

 

[DisneyBishops]

Hang in there Deb. Once we get nobama out of Washington, (and alot of others also.) The economy will again get better. I too lost a ton of money during these bad times. But at least i still have a good paying job. Only have house payment. I drive old motorhome so no payments on that. It ain't as nice a newer ones, but then again it is mine for what that is worth. I would love to have a newer one but not going into debt for one at this time. Besides with a new one we wouldn't have all these fun adventures ever time we go somewhere. At least with my old one i can afford all the surprises each time we go anywhere.

All our politicians are killing our great country. Hang in there and they will be gone hopefully sooner than later.


I say vote em all out.

 

[LarryJ]

No, Larry. I don't take this as a slam, at all. As a matter of fact, it IS very sage advice for those looking ahead to retirement. We did just that, and had a very nice nest egg built up. The only mistake we made was selling our former home too early. If we had waited just 2 more years, we would have doubled the earnings on our former home & been able to pay cash for the one we live in now. We didn't have our crystal ball plugged in that year. (LOL)

One point of fact is, you can draw from your IRA before 59 1/2, you just pay higher taxes on it. Rick is 56 & I'm 55. We had our investment built up to a VERY comfortable amount prior to the economy tanking in 2007. We lost over half because we didn't see what was coming (no one did) and get the money moved to more secure investments. I used to joke prior to '07 that we should bite the bullet, pull out an amount to pay off the mortgage & motor home. We LOST more than that amount, plus enough to pay cash for a couple of BMW's. Hind-sight is 20/20. We both retired young from Verizon - age 49 and after 30 year careers. We had nice incentives to retire early, and if we had waited until the traditional 59 1/2 to retire, we would have been stuck with a monthly pension instead of a cash buy-out for our earned retirement. When we retired, Enron & Xerox were the "buzz" because all their retiree's lost out entirely. We did not want the possibility of that happening to us.

We knew we would need to work until SS age, and Rick had a good job with a Lincoln Dealership that he got laid off from in 2007. After 40 years of business - the dealership closed in mid 2008. Up until last month, I took a 2nd job because there are NO jobs out there (especially if you're over 50), unless you want to work for minimum wage. After Rick lost his job, his unemployment was almost twice what a minimum wage job paid - so no sense working at McDonald's.

Rick will be meeting with his manager this week for some explanations. The biggest question we want answered is....why are Rick's counterparts at the company's other 14 developments in Florida getting checks every payday? Rick has only been with this company for 5 months and has sold 3 homes. The salespeople receive monthly reports showing total sales for the corporation for the year, and Rick is in 2nd place this year. Most salespeople have not sold the first home - and you can't tell me they are working for free. Selling any homes in the dead of summer, in a retirement community, in Florida, in a bad economy, is almost unheard of. He's kinda of stuck, because he has about 6 customers just waiting until after the holidays to purchase homes. If he walks away now, he'll lose out on a lot of $$$ in commissions.

Rick is going to talk to our investor today and see what other options are open to us. We may just have to increase our stipend, and hope that the economy recovers like it did between 2002 & 2007. We'll make it - just not the way we would choose to.

John - you are too funny! (LOL)

A couple of extremely good points that because of our situation I didn't consider and I'm glad you didn't take my post negatively since I made my post for others approaching retirement to consider. I put some $$$ in wife's SEP when she was a Realtor and made enough money to push us into a higher tax bracket than the lowest and just now have withdrawn some, but think I'll leave most in an account that will go to our childern outside of the will unless we need the $$$ which I can't imagine we would. I do realize you can withdraw from an IRA sooner, but you then loose all the tax advantages due to the penalities and I didn't consider that or the fact that unlike you I have all our extra retirement $$$ and the wife's SEP $$$ in CDs and not market dependent like some of your retirement nest egg was. Also, being retired military my retirement is COLA protected so that is a plus in our case along with the fact that our TOTAL health care costs are fixed at about $480/year for the two of us thru TRICARE.

I've never had to manage $$$ as a true civilian or mess with retirement accounts or retirements being funded via the private sector so I'm a true newb in that area.

Just hang in there and keep plugging away and things almost always have a way of working themselves out to your satisifaction (how satisified is another question sometimes)

Larry

 

[LORNADUCK]

Deb, I can feel your pain. My new saying is this to shall pass. Not to make light of the situation. What happened to the old days when you could trust who you worked for. Rich has been sc**** out a lot of bonus money when he ran the golf course. And when he was a car salesman boy they found everyway to not pay what was due. I hope Rick gets it cleared up your both deserve better.

 

[liv luvs disney]

Deb, I am so sorry that your family is going through this. You and your husband are in the group that is the back bone of this country and it's sad that you work like a dog for most of your life only to wake up one day and find yourself in a situation like this! My parents are in the same boat as you and your husband and it breaks my heart. Hang in there girly!

 

[des1954]

A couple of extremely good points that because of our situation I didn't consider and I'm glad you didn't take my post negatively since I made my post for others approaching retirement to consider. I put some $$$ in wife's SEP when she was a Realtor and made enough money to push us into a higher tax bracket than the lowest and just now have withdrawn some, but think I'll leave most in an account that will go to our childern outside of the will unless we need the $$$ which I can't imagine we would. I do realize you can withdraw from an IRA sooner, but you then loose all the tax advantages due to the penalities and I didn't consider that or the fact that unlike you I have all our extra retirement $$$ and the wife's SEP $$$ in CDs and not market dependent like some of your retirement nest egg was. Also, being retired military my retirement is COLA protected so that is a plus in our case along with the fact that our TOTAL health care costs are fixed at about $480/year for the two of us thru TRICARE.

I've never had to manage $$$ as a true civilian or mess with retirement accounts or retirements being funded via the private sector so I'm a true newb in that area.

Just hang in there and keep plugging away and things almost always have a way of working themselves out to your satisifaction (how satisified is another question sometimes)

Larry

Larry - all kidding aside - it appears you had tremendous foresight in your younger years by not getting sucked into the "black hole" of overextending yourself. People of our generation have been ruined because they didn't plan, and bought into the lie of "I can afford the monthly payment" and didn't consider the greater picture. I dare say most of the "baby-boomers" live month to month because they were never taught how to properly manage money. This lack of training has now trickled down to our children and will eventually perpetuate to their children. Hell...our government is a fine example of overextending!

Rick & I always had (emphasis on the "had") enough readily available money to carry us through 6 months of payments should anything unforseen happen. The unforseen happened, and I am thankful we had that padding available. We would have been up the creek without it. That being said - I've not been able to re-build that pad and it makes me extremely nervous not to have it. We always reserved our Visa card for emergencies, and for a few months we had to use it out of necessity. Talk about uncomfortable!!!

We spoke with our investment agent yesterday, and after considerable discussion, it is not in our best interest to increase our IRA stipend. Doing so could put us in a position where we will be out of $$$ by the time we hit 70. So....if things don't change for Rick, we may be forced to let the motor home go. I don't think that is going to happen, but it is a possibility. I don't have a problem with that, but I do have a problem with the possibility of reneging on a loan. I'm a person of my word, and not paying back what I owe goes against everything I believe in. If push comes to shove, I'll call the finance company and see what can be worked out. I'm sure they'd rather have some payment than to repo the MH & sell it for pennies on the dollar.

Thanks, everyone - for being so supportive. Your "shoring me up" comments mean so much to me!! It will work out in the end. All is not lost.

P.S. Larry....if you have an abundance of money...I'll take it off your hands so you don't have to deal with it!!!

 

[ftwildernessguy]

Business practices today are despicable. Sometimes I feel like I live in a south american country.

 

[datgrt@fw]

Hello and Good Morning Deb,
I am very sorry to read about the situation with your husband's job! We also decided to retire early based on very similar concerns as yours! If I did not retire when I did we also would have been faced with lossing the option of the lump sum payout and would have only received a much smaller monthly pension check which was a big concern for us. Believe me, that would have been a big problem! I retired about 1-1/2 years ago at age 55 so it looks like my wife and myself are about the same age as you and your husband. Keep the faith, I am sure everything will work out and things will get better soon!!!

I remember when I first joined the 'Disboard' you were the first person to send me a very nice 'Welcome' note which I appreciated! Maybe one day we will have a chance to meet you and your husband at Fort Wilderness!

Doug / datgrt@fw

 

[des1954]

Awww....thanks, Doug!

The other problem we had with taking a monthly pension check and not a buy-out was when we die the pension check stops. The surviving spouse is left with nothing - and that truly stinks.

 

[LarryJ]

Larry - all kidding aside - it appears you had tremendous foresight in your younger years by not getting sucked into the "black hole" of overextending yourself. People of our generation have been ruined because they didn't plan, and bought into the lie of "I can afford the monthly payment" and didn't consider the greater picture. I dare say most of the "baby-boomers" live month to month because they were never taught how to properly manage money. This lack of training has now trickled down to our children and will eventually perpetuate to their children. Hell...our government is a fine example of overextending!

Rick & I always had (emphasis on the "had") enough readily available money to carry us through 6 months of payments should anything unforseen happen. The unforseen happened, and I am thankful we had that padding available. We would have been up the creek without it. That being said - I've not been able to re-build that pad and it makes me extremely nervous not to have it. We always reserved our Visa card for emergencies, and for a few months we had to use it out of necessity. Talk about uncomfortable!!!

We spoke with our investment agent yesterday, and after considerable discussion, it is not in our best interest to increase our IRA stipend. Doing so could put us in a position where we will be out of $$$ by the time we hit 70. So....if things don't change for Rick, we may be forced to let the motor home go. I don't think that is going to happen, but it is a possibility. I don't have a problem with that, but I do have a problem with the possibility of reneging on a loan. I'm a person of my word, and not paying back what I owe goes against everything I believe in. If push comes to shove, I'll call the finance company and see what can be worked out. I'm sure they'd rather have some payment than to repo the MH & sell it for pennies on the dollar.

Thanks, everyone - for being so supportive. Your "shoring me up" comments mean so much to me!! It will work out in the end. All is not lost.

P.S. Larry....if you have an abundance of money...I'll take it off your hands so you don't have to deal with it!!!

lI wouldn't call it foresight, but maybe the basic background of my family routes being farmers from the early 1900's where we just fixed things and made due with what we had helped me in how I have always approached life. When we were first married we did a lot of creative things with hamburger, but now do it with filet minion. It's IMHO all about timing and planning and we got lucky, but Mr. Murphy got you.

Larry

 

[disney4dan]

This is one of the things I like about this section of the camping boards, good solid conversation bout stuff that matters mixed in with everything else.

Still looking out to retirement a few years off, only in my mid 40's, but wondering what the future will bring. Saved as much as we could by building our own home for a fraction of what we would have to have paid a builder, and bring my own lunch to work now that I realized how much those over the counter lunches were cutting into my camping budget. I hope the economy turns around for all of us soon. Lucky that Nancy & I both have good jobs with benefits, but it still amazes my inlaws how much we have to pay for our share of medical. They were in that fortunate time period where one income was enough, and the most that they had to contribute to medical insurance was less than $20 per month and no co-pay for doctors visits. They almost had a coronary one day when we mentioned how many hundreds of dollars per month we must pay for just our share. Then the $30 per visit co-pay for each visit to the specialists for our son along with parking fees. Not complaining tho, we would be bankrupt by now if not for the insurance.

 

[des1954]

I have vague recollections from my youth that health insurance sucked, and when you got a minor illness - you just dealt with it and didn't run to the doctor or ER to treat a cold or stomach-ache. When you got a major illness, yes, the bills were high - but nothing by comparison with today's bills, percentage wise. Of course in my youth, people didn't sue doctors over frivolous things. If hospitals and doctors didn't have to carry such exorbitant malpractice insurance, our health care costs might just be half of what they are. I blame lawyers and judges for the injustices in our health care today. Well, that plus letting every single indigent drug addict/alcoholic and illegal immigrant use the ER's as their own personal walk-in clinic.

I'm not a big Rush Limbaugh fan, but one thing he said on Shatner's Raw Nerve was spot on. Shatner asked R.L. if it was "fair" that the rich and those who had insurance got the best medical care. R.L. countered it by asking "Is it fair that I worked hard and fought tooth and nail to be able to live in a beautiful beach house while someone who never worked a day in their life has to live in a hovel? YES!! It's damned fair!! I worked for what I have, and that includes my ability to pay for my health care. This is America...where, if you put forth a little effort, and use common sense, you can have anything you want within reason! If you don't want to work to have a comfortable life, don't look to me to support you." He then went on to say that the wealthy do have a moral obligation to help those who are truly unable to help themselves (and most do), but not to have to carry the burden of lazy people that feel they are "entitled to be supported", who simply won't help themselves. "Let them wallow in the misery they created for themselves." Quote, unquote.

I really have to agree with him on this. In our community (and I'm sure most of yours, too) we have "regular panhandlers" at busy intersections with the most imaginative signs. My favorite is one who might be 30 years old holding a sign that says: "Disabled Viet-Nam Vet. Can't work. Can you help?" WTH??? We were out of V.N. LONG before he was born!!! How stupid is that? Yet, I see people who roll down their windows and hand him money. These are the soft-hearted and soft-brained people who perpetuate this behavior. The guy probably gets into a brand new Lexus at the end of the day.

Call me what you will, but, I think before the Gov't tries to tackle health care issues, they need to do some house cleaning of the system, first. Issue bills that will stop other-wise able people from using the system for their own gain. My biggest pet peeve is Medicaid & AFDC for ignorant people who breed like rabbits. Anyone can have one "OOPS" baby. ANYONE. However, if after having that child you need to look to the Gov't to help you support that child, then the Gov't should have the ability to insure that the father and mother of that child cannot have any more children. Your choice. Accept the aid, accept the consequence. If you don't like the consequence, get off your behind and work to support the child you brought into the world. Okay....nuff said!

 

[Just Beachy]

it still amazes my inlaws how much we have to pay for our share of medical.

Dan, this made me laugh. Not long ago I mentioned to my mother how much my mortgage payment is every month. She told me I must be confused because there is no way it could be that much! We live in a very modest home in one of the least expensive parts of the State. I told her I was pretty sure I was right considering I'm the one who writes the check every month!! She is adorable and I love her to pieces, but she is still living back in another time.

I'm not a big Rush Limbaugh fan, but one thing he said on Shatner's Raw Nerve was spot on. Shatner asked R.L. if it was "fair" that the rich and those who had insurance got the best medical care. R.L. countered it by asking "Is it fair that I worked hard and fought tooth and nail to be able to live in a beautiful beach house while someone who never worked a day in their life has to live in a hovel? YES!! It's damned fair!! I worked for what I have, and that includes my ability to pay for my health care. This is America...where, if you put forth a little effort, and use common sense, you can have anything you want within reason! If you don't want to work to have a comfortable life, don't look to me to support you." He then went on to say that the wealthy do have a moral obligation to help those who are truly unable to help themselves (and most do), but not to have to carry the burden of lazy people that feel they are "entitled to be supported", who simply won't help themselves. "Let them wallow in the misery they created for themselves." Quote, unquote.

And there's something wrong with what he said? I totally agree with this. There is a big difference between really needing the help to get back on your feet and taking a continual handout as a way of making a living.