How to handle crazies?

[2Tiggies]

What about shuffle your feet lose your seat?

I think what we need to remember as well, and I am not making excuses for behavior or attitudes one way or another, is that perceptions of personal space, acceptable proximity and privacy vary greatly from one group to the next. Now while the majority of us share a common understanding of what we deem to be appropriate behavior on the above terms, the same may not be second nature to someone else. Learning to judge a fair spacial "bubble" is learned through upbringing and exposure which is influenced by culture, family size and other factors. It is not a right or wrong thing. It is simply different.

Often the most heated arguments arise from situations where both parties honestly believe they are right and are astonished at the other party's reactions. Since there is no law either way, nobody is right, and nobody is wrong. It is like the person who walks onto a nearly empty monorail and chooses to sit RIGHT next to you That really annoys me and yes, I will allow one stop just in case it appears insulting and then get up and move. Now if I had a problem with people sitting next to me, I would never go to public places. But in that situation it seems bizarre to me. Perhaps the other person has been raised to believe that it would have been rude to sit elsewhere. Now most probably this would not be the case, but you never know if there is something you don't know, if that makes sense.

Ultimately, in every situation we have a choice. You can choose to react. Or you can choose to respond. One takes a lot more effort, but is far less exhausting and with a lesser cost to the enjoyment of the rest of the day.

 

[MissStitch626]

I have to say I've found this thread really interesting and has really made me reconsider our plans to visit one of the water parks on our next trip. On a previous visit we were only there for an hour in the afternoon, and as I wasn't feeling well I remained with the chairs the entire time and didn't experience this kind of problem. However, after reading some of the posts on here, it seems like it would be a pretty stressful way to spend a day. While I completely understand where some of the previous posters are coming from, I think it's a bit much to expect people to return to a locker every time they want to use a towel or put on some sunscreen. And what about people who don't like to walk around in bare feet? I totally agree that it is unreasonable to expect to be able to leave a staked out location for hours at a time, but I equally don't think it's unreasonable to be able to leave a towel and some sunscreen with a couple of chairs for a short periods at a time without your belongings being disturbed. Think it might be a case of finding a happy balance?

 

[PlainJane]

The parks do not have enough lockers for every guest to rent one for towels and shoes. Can you imagine (if they were to add them) spending an hour in line to lock up your shoes or towel?

I'm sure if they did add them they could afford to hire an extra person or two to run them (Considering they'll be bringing in extra revenue from the lockers).

Lockers are basically used for valuables you don't want to leave out.

That is your personal opinion. To me they are for all personal items that I want with me, but not on my person while I'm at the park. That includes my towel and suntan lotion. I go back to the lockers to reapply. Those in my party who like wearing shoes at the park wear water shoes.

We put our towel on the chaise rather than laying in someone else's sweat and suntan oil, so putting it in a locker would be useless. The parks put out enough chairs for everyone to have their own.

The locker is still not useless, you could have walked back to the lockers after you were done to put your towel away. If there are enough chairs, why do people have trouble finding one?

It is just rude for someone to think they can sleep in and and take what someone else has already reserved. They need to keep walking until they find an open chair rather that taking someone elses. Might not be first choice, but it is the respectful thing to do. Remember the early bird gets the worm?
Obviously we have different boundaries as to respect and personal space.

I've had the opportunity many a time to score myself a cabana for hours on end, but I don't do it because I think it's rude. It's a public space, if you want it to be your's for the day you can pay Disney for that service.

 

[mrbghd]

I'm glad you don't encourage others to do what you did because it's terrible advice. Not only did you risk a physical confrontation but legally you can't put your hands on someone else's property in a public place. What if they had called the police and claimed you 'broke' their cell phone or stole some of their money? I agree that bullies have no place in Disney or anywhere else, but doing what you did potentially gave the bullies far more power over you had they been smart enough to realize it. Your second bit of advice is much better: get help from a park employee.

Unfortnately in order to make that claim and for it to stand up there must be independent evidence that it occurred. Without such, or without a police officer observing the alleged offense personally, there would be no probable cause to even search me for allegedly missing money. Additionally, without any direct proof that I in fact was the one that "broke" the phone no charges could be filed. I have worked within the criminal justice sytem my entire adult life. I deal with bullies like this constantly and in the end they are just punks. I stand by my argument that standing up to people like this is the only way to stop them, but I also stand by my comments to not neccessarily do things my way. I have vast experience in dealing with situations that involve jerks and crazies.

For those that say it is wrong to leave your stuff, that is the acceptable custom at pools and wateparks throughout America. IT is not similar to leaving stuff to stake out parade or having one person hold a spot in line for 50. Those 2 actions are not socially acceptable customes among rational, decen people.

 

[reiella]

The parks do not have enough lockers for every guest to rent one for towels and shoes. Can you imagine (if they were to add them) spending an hour in line to lock up your shoes or towel? Lockers are basically used for valuables you don't want to leave out. We put our towel on the chaise rather than laying in someone else's sweat and suntan oil, so putting it in a locker would be useless. The parks put out enough chairs for everyone to have their own. It is just rude for someone to think they can sleep in and and take what someone else has already reserved. They need to keep walking until they find an open chair rather that taking someone elses. Might not be first choice, but it is the respectful thing to do. Remember the early bird gets the worm? Obviously we have different boundaries as to respect and personal space.

You seriously consider a towel `street clothes`? For the rest of it, I think my initial post still explains my view pretty well. I wouldn`t expect to be [no clue what I typed here. I hate posting from my cellphone ]

 

[airhead]

While I understand those that say pick up your stuff and move that is, in my opinion, the wrong answer. These people were bullies and they need to be stood up to. Whether you get firm with them or whether you get a park employee. The reason they and people like them do this is because people have the "I'll just move to avoid the conflict" attitude. As long as people let them get away with it, it will continue. I am not advocating a physical confrontation or to do anything you are uncomfortable with. I have had a similar thing happen to my wife and I and I politely gathered their things up for them and placed them into a pile on the sidewalk, while they watched in shock. Again I do not encourage this, but the rude family left without saying another word to me or anyone.

LOVE this!!!! I would have done something similar,no doubt...

 

[RabFlmom]

Lets say I get to BB early and I stake out a chair for each of us, plus put stuff on the picnic table in one of the cabanas (thinking OP meant one of the pavilians?)..... Nah, I wouldn't do that anyway cause I would figure there will be other families who might want to share the area in the shade with us in the prime spot I picked. So I probably would have just put stuff on a chair or 2 for us to share since I was also putting a cooler on the end of a picnic table.

Then if another family came in and were bringing chairs out of the sun and sitting at the table we hadn't been using, I probably would have said Hi and started talking to the family, telling them we would be glad to share the cabana with them. After all I didn't pay the $150 or $250(forget how much they cost) to rent the cabana in the first place. I would do the same thing in a pavillion if we set up there. No confrontations if I don't confront anyone when I see them sharing our space. I would hope, they would gently get the message that it was sort of rude to move our stuff if they had, but I would still welcome them to our space.

I am one of those people that invite others to share a table when it gets crowded and tables are hard to find in the CS places in the park. You meet a lot of nice people from all over the world that way.

 

[airhead]

God's honest truth, and this is nasty, but I think I would have sat down for a bit, and tried my hardest (and it isn't that hard for me) to work up a nice loud stinky fart. I'm pretty sure that would have cleared them out of my space. Of course, on the down side, it might have forced US to leave the space too, but it would have been well worth it

this is the best!!!

 

[wtccheermom]

The fact is, it is a public area and there is no offical "seat saving"
l.

So I guess that holds true for parade spots also or if someone comes and stands in front of you at the parade since it is public property? I myself would have just gotten up and left since there were open spots!

 

[Tinkerbellie16]

I have to say I've found this thread really interesting and has really made me reconsider our plans to visit one of the water parks on our next trip. On a previous visit we were only there for an hour in the afternoon, and as I wasn't feeling well I remained with the chairs the entire time and didn't experience this kind of problem. However, after reading some of the posts on here, it seems like it would be a pretty stressful way to spend a day. While I completely understand where some of the previous posters are coming from, I think it's a bit much to expect people to return to a locker every time they want to use a towel or put on some sunscreen. And what about people who don't like to walk around in bare feet? I totally agree that it is unreasonable to expect to be able to leave a staked out location for hours at a time, but I equally don't think it's unreasonable to be able to leave a towel and some sunscreen with a couple of chairs for a short periods at a time without your belongings being disturbed. Think it might be a case of finding a happy balance?

Oh no! Don't reconsider the waterparks!

My family spends a half day at a water park and we don't usually expect to get a 'choice' spot. We put our valuables in a locker then find one chair where we can put our towels and a bag of stuff (sunscreen, chapstick, etc) then we go off. If someone moves our towels, I have NO problem because we weren't sitting there. And I never have my valuables there so if they move something (or if something gets lost or stolen), I'm not heartbroken.

You have to realize that if you are leaving your items alone, you can not guarantee that they will remain in the same spot. As long as you realize this and go in with that expectation, you won't be mortified when someone wanted your chair and put your stuff on the sand. Because it does happen and there is nothing you can do to prevent it unless you put all of your items in a locker.

And for the OP, I wouldn't classify people as 'crazies'. These things happen. You left your stuff alone and you didn't rent the spot for the day. It doesn't sound like the family handled it well, but that doesn't make them crazy.

 

[WDSearcher]

Since you were there first I would have made them move. What ever happened to first come first served?? I would have stood my ground. But that is what I would do. I would have done it politely too

But how do you "make" someone move? And is it worth the time and trouble on your vacation to get into a confrontation?

Sure, the bullies won't learn anything if you take your stuff and move on, but as the OP said, they weren't a happy group to begin with. They were already having a lousy day, so let them. If it makes them feel superior to get "your" spot ... who cares? They're having a lousy time ... no reason you have to join them. The bullies may not learn anything, but chances are they wouldn't anyway. They'd just spend the rest of the day mad at you, and then who knows what could happen?

The bullies WANT confrontation, so don't give it to them. Either be friendly and share the space or be friendly and leave. Making a scene doesn't do anything, really, does it?

 

[reiella]

And since my phone still sucks to post not going to quote. But mrbghd did make a fair few points, just to refine them however. It is important not to dismiss different opinions as having come from irrational/unreasonable people. More specifically, when there is a difference between circumstances it is important to identify why that difference occurs. In the case of water parks, in my view, it is the towel that changes things in relation to the seat itself. I have no real personal knowledge as to why there is a difference with tables, or locations. I don`t think that makes me necessarily irrational or unreasonable, just with a different opinion and possibly ignorant of further reasoning.

 

[WDSearcher]

Unfortnately in order to make that claim and for it to stand up there must be independent evidence that it occurred. Without such, or without a police officer observing the alleged offense personally, there would be no probable cause to even search me for allegedly missing money. Additionally, without any direct proof that I in fact was the one that "broke" the phone no charges could be filed. I have worked within the criminal justice sytem my entire adult life. I deal with bullies like this constantly and in the end they are just punks. I stand by my argument that standing up to people like this is the only way to stop them, but I also stand by my comments to not neccessarily do things my way. I have vast experience in dealing with situations that involve jerks and crazies.

Whether actual charges or claims could take you to court isn't really the point, IMO. It's the amount of TIME such a confrontation would take away from my vacation. Is "making a point to the bullies" -- one that they will neither heed nor remember -- worth potentially a couple hours of my vacation to deal with the fallout? Is it worth the time said confrontation would take as I try to "reclaim my space" under the cabana? For me ... nope. For you ... maybe.

For those that say it is wrong to leave your stuff, that is the acceptable custom at pools and wateparks throughout America. IT is not similar to leaving stuff to stake out parade or having one person hold a spot in line for 50. Those 2 actions are not socially acceptable customes among rational, decen people.

Who made those rules? Where are they written down? Sure, it's become "common", but in some parts of the world it's common to do all sorts of things that other parts of the world think are wrong. For me, personally -- I have no problem with people leaving stuff to stake out a parade or fireworks seating area. Drop your blankets or towels, leave someone there to watch the valuables, and I consider that to be "your" spot -- no matter how long you sit there or how many people show up at the last moment. In fact, if you left a large blanket on the curb with "Smith Family -- Returning at 2:45pm" on it, I'd consider it your space until 2:46. We used to do it all the time in my hometown for the July 4 and Veteran's Day parades. I was surprised when I was told by other guests that I couldn't do that at WDW. I thought it was a socially acceptable custom among rational, decent people.

As for line cutting -- I'll agree with you there, as I think that IS written down somewhere as being against Disney guidelines.

 

[CMHusband]

poke holes in all of their floaty toys when they weren't looking.

 

[DizBelle]

There were at least one hundred available seats in view. There were four empty cabanas. That's what makes the story so confusing. It was our first trip to BB, and I had spent a lot of time planning the trip. I would never move into an occupied space at a pool or water park. I had assumed that all people followed that polite practice.

occupied = butt in seat
occupied <> flip flops near chair

 

[mrbghd]

It's the amount of TIME such a confrontation would take away from my vacation. Is "making a point to the bullies" -- one that they will neither heed nor remember -- worth potentially a couple hours of my vacation to deal with the fallout? Is it worth the time said confrontation would take as I try to "reclaim my space" under the cabana? For me ... nope. For you ... maybe.


Who made those rules?

I agree with your overall concept of why waste time dealing with these idiots that aren't going to get it anyway. Despite how my post(s) may sound I would not let this ruin my day or trip or consume more than a few minutes of my time.

As to who made the rules, like I said they are considered societal norms. This means that in America, that society has dictated whether or not these actions are okay. these norms are what civilized society considers okay. On a kind of random note, these societal norms also explain why visitors from certain other nations will stand so close to you when in line. Their culture has deemed the seemingly close proximity to be the norm and therefore the rule of their society.

 

[DizBelle]

I think that if management had shown up, they would have said that seats cannot be reserved except for those that you pay to reserve and the cabana was unoccupied when that other family showed up so it was ok for them to move in.

 

[WDSearcher]

As to who made the rules, like I said they are considered societal norms. This means that in America, that society has dictated whether or not these actions are okay. these norms are what civilized society considers okay. On a kind of random note, these societal norms also explain why visitors from certain other nations will stand so close to you when in line. Their culture has deemed the seemingly close proximity to be the norm and therefore the rule of their society.

And I totally get that. But where I come from (in America ... Midwest), it's perfectly okay to stake out a spot for a parade hours in advance, by leaving your blanket(s) or some other identifying item (we tend to tape off our spot, with a taped off name inside or a sign identifying our family taped to the sidewalk) in that space. We are then free to enjoy the rest of the fair, festival or whatever -- playing games, eating food -- as long as we return within a reasonable time to the parade route. Everyone does this, and there are seldom any instances of claim-jumping.

At WDW, however, this is not seen as acceptable. So, in that case, what my part of civilized society considers okay is clearly not what WDW's part of civilized society considers okay. So ... still not necessarily a "given", KWIM?

 

[DizBelle]

Does anyone else see this as the same argument as saving tables at counter service restaurants when you don't have your food yet leaving lots of people who already have their food walking around for a long time looking of a table to use?

Why would you prevent someone else from using something when you aren't using it yourself? "Because we might show back up to sit in the chairs in 3 or 4 hours" really doesn't seem like a good reason.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

Does anyone else see this as the same argument as saving tables at counter service restaurants when you don't have your food yet leaving lots of people who already have their food walking around for a long time looking of a table to use?

What's your definition of a long time? The 10 minutes it takes for your food to come, or the HOUR plus that the OP is referring to?