How does vandalism and looting accomplish anything???

[OurBigTrip]

I said "getting into the prone position." Every bit as plausible a scenario as running fast leading with the head after being shot several times.

That has been acknowledged several times. In fact, I've said at least twice that I believe that's exactly what happened. Brown was stumbling/falling as the last two shots were fired.

 

[sunshinehighway]

yes, that is what i mean, that when he was shot... he was facing the shooter. Not that his back was to the shooter... or that there was a magic bullet from ACME

I realize nobody agrees with me on this and that's fine. If his arms are moving it's entirely possible he was shot in the bicep from behind. When a person walks or runs their arms swing. The exposes the past of the arm where Brown has at least one wound. It's not impossible that he was shot there from behind as his arm was swinging back.

How is that really any less plausible than him being shot directly through the eye and then directly through the top of his head as he was falling?

 

[CPT Tripss]

Not the same story, but they just interviewed a Police Chief in Philadelphia. They were showing some angry skateboarders and one of them was kicking the snot out of a Park Ranger who had the audacity to tell them hey you can't skate in this park. The skaters apparently took offense and being told not to do something by a person of authority. Stomped on his head, spit on him etc…Anyway, the Police Chief said kids today that they deal with on a daily basis do not care. And this is what they have to deal with. He said but let that same kid get a scratch on him and he cries police brutality.

So I think that some people (not saying Michael Brown) do not care what anyone in authority tells them to do. And why should they? There are people on this thread that seem to teach their kids to not respect people in authority.

Philly has a good "Top Cop". ETA: and no one is tempted to call him "Chief Feelgood."

Did you know that he sent police academy classes to The Holocaust Museum in DC so that they can vividly see what can happen when police go wrong.

 

[Disneychick75]

I said "getting into the prone position." Every bit as plausible a scenario as running fast leading with the head after being shot several times.

My mistake,sorry

 

[CPT Tripss]

So what's the story with this "Josie" woman who called into a radio show and claimed to be telling The officer's version of the shooting? She claims that the gun discharged in the cop car with both Brown and the Officer having their hands on it.

What I heard she made it sound like it was still holstered. Since no one has yet leaked the GSR results for Brown or a photo of a bullet hole in the car, we have to wait for these forensic results too.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I realize nobody agrees with me on this and that's fine. If his arms are moving it's entirely possible he was shot in the bicep from behind. When a person walks or runs their arms swing. The exposes the past of the arm where Brown has at least one wound. It's not impossible that he was shot there from behind as his arm was swinging back.

How is that really any less plausible than him being shot directly through the eye and then directly through the top of his head as he was falling?

Unless you can get your elbows above your shoulders and quite a distance, you will not get a front entry bullet into the bicep.

Challenge for you. Bend your elbows to 90 degrees, and while standing up right, try to raise you elbows (towards the back) above your shoulders attempting to have your bicep face the wall behind you. I'm trying it now and I cannot even get my elbow level which means my bicep is facing completely down. No clear shot for a front entry bullet to my bicep (per the drawing). And I'm way skinnier than Mike Brown.

 

[Disneychick75]

So what's the story with this "Josie" woman who called into a radio show and claimed to be telling The officer's version of the shooting? She claims that the gun discharged in the cop car with both Brown and the Officer having their hands on it.

What I heard she made it sound like it was still holstered. Since no one has yet leaked the GSR results for Brown or a photo of a bullet hole in the car, we have to wait for these forensic results too.

Josie is a friend of both Wilson and his significant other. If you haven't listened to her call, it's linked below:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/WzBdY6WXeRE

 

[Luvchefmic]

Josie is a friend of both Wilson and his significant other. If you haven't listened to her call, it's linked below:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/WzBdY6WXeRE

I haven't listened to the call. I have no desire to. I love all these fools that start flapping their gums thinking they are going to help someone. I sincerely doubt this cop told her or his significant other exactly what happened. He would be pretty stupid to go against what his PBA Rep told him.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Unless you can get your elbows above your shoulders and quite a distance, you will not get a front entry bullet into the bicep.

Challenge for you. Bend your elbows to 90 degrees, and while standing up right, try to raise you elbows (towards the back) above your shoulders attempting to have your bicep face the wall behind you. I'm trying it now and I cannot even get my elbow level which means my bicep is facing completely down. No clear shot for a front entry bullet to my bicep (per the drawing). And I'm way skinnier than Mike Brown.

It doesn't look to me like the wounds is on the front of his arm. The diagram has palms up so to me that's the inner part (or I guess the back of his arm). Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the diagram.

 

[skylizard]

Josie is a friend of both Wilson and his significant other. If you haven't listened to her call, it's linked below:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/WzBdY6WXeRE

There's also a video on youtube of a bystander recording the minutes after the shooting and giving an eye witness account as to what happened. You can hear him telling someone next to him who hadn't witnessed the shooting what he saw. According to him, Brown scuffled with the cop, ran off, the cop yelled "freeze" and Brown turned around and went towards the cop. It seems totally legit since you can hear Brown's mom screaming in the background. I'm sure who ever shot that video will end up being a witness.
I'm not gonna post a link to the video since it shows Brown laying on the ground and is pretty graphic but you can look it up on youtube.

 

[penn19]

http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/2014/08/dallas-police-investigating-officer-involved-shooting.html/

Thank you for the link. I see no mention of the color of the officer involved in the shooting? I find that really odd that the media would feel it necessary to let people know that a white officer shot a black man but not a black officer shooting a white man. I wonder why that would be?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

It doesn't look to me like the wounds is on the front of his arm. The diagram has palms up so to me that's the inner part (or I guess the back of his arm). Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the diagram.

Doh! Good point. Not sure why I didn't notice the hands.
On rotation, it does bring the arm so the the side is the bicep and side of triceps are facing forward.

So--that makes what I said a bit of an issue.
BUT--I still think it has some merit (for a he had to be facing forward the whole time from first injury) because if I were to plot those points on my arm in the same position, read entry would aril be quite complicated without the bullet coming into contact with other parts of the arm or torso. But I have arm flab--so there ya go.

Or does make plausible entry with arms up, though.

 

[OurBigTrip]

It doesn't look to me like the wounds is on the front of his arm. The diagram has palms up so to me that's the inner part (or I guess the back of his arm). Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the diagram.

It sucks trying to "see" a 3D view on a 2D drawing. Yeah, the wound marks are there, but it's hard to get perspective, at least it is for me.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Thank you for the link. I see no mention of the color of the officer involved in the shooting? I find that really odd that the media would feel it necessary to let people know that a white officer shot a black man but not a black officer shooting a white man. I wonder why that would be?

Does not for the narrative. Race is mentioned for white on black (or, they sound white (Zimmerman) on black) incidents.

 

[ericstac]

You know something that annoys me? 2 days after Wilson shot Brown, an African-American cop, Hudson, shot an unarmed Caucasian man, Gaynier, who charged at him in Dallas. Gaynier has a rap sheet as some have said Brown had. Have we seen riots, looting, and charges of racism? No.

black on white killings are ok dude..

 

[Disneychick75]

It doesn't look to me like the wounds is on the front of his arm. The diagram has palms up so to me that's the inner part (or I guess the back of his arm). Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the diagram.

The shots were to the bicep area. If your arms are raised, the triceps are facing forward. I was confused when I first read the article last night and stood in front of my mirror comparing the shots in Brown's body to where they would have hit my body. If the arms are partially raised, the bullets would have gone through the forearm to hit the biceps. In the drawings, x's mark where a bullet traveled and hit more than one area. None of these show that on the biceps shots.

There's also a video on youtube of a bystander recording the minutes after the shooting and giving an eye witness account as to what happened. You can hear him telling someone next to him who hadn't witnessed the shooting what he saw. According to him, Brown scuffled with the cop, ran off, the cop yelled "freeze" and Brown turned around and went towards the cop. It seems totally legit since you can hear Brown's mom screaming in the background. I'm sure who ever shot that video will end up being a witness.
I'm not gonna post a link to the video since it shows Brown laying on the ground and is pretty graphic but you can look it up on youtube.

I've seen that video and heard the conversation. Not sure if I didn't link to it earlier in this thread. It agrees with what Josie said.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Doh! Good point. Not sure why I didn't notice the hands.
On rotation, it does bring the arm so the the side is the bicep and side of triceps are facing forward.

So--that makes what I said a bit of an issue.
BUT--I still think it has some merit (for a he had to be facing forward the whole time from first injury) because if I were to plot those points on my arm in the same position, read entry would aril be quite complicated without the bullet coming into contact with other parts of the arm or torso. But I have arm flab--so there ya go.

Or does make plausible entry with arms up, though.

I was beginning to think I really had something wrong and I couldn't figure out what. I don't think the placement indicates either way what was going on or dismisses any witness accounts. The only thing it really shows is that he was moving during those first arm shots or standing with his arms up.

 

[sunshinehighway]

It sucks trying to "see" a 3D view on a 2D drawing. Yeah, the wound marks are there, but it's hard to get perspective, at least it is for me.

It's even harder to explain an interpretation of a 2d drawing of a 3dview on a message board. At least it is for me.

 

[Suger Mag]

Doh! Good point. Not sure why I didn't notice the hands.
On rotation, it does bring the arm so the the side is the bicep and side of triceps are facing forward.

So--that makes what I said a bit of an issue.
BUT--I still think it has some merit (for a he had to be facing forward the whole time from first injury) because if I were to plot those points on my arm in the same position, read entry would aril be quite complicated without the bullet coming into contact with other parts of the arm or torso. But I have arm flab--so there ya go.

Or does make plausible entry with arms up, though.

All medical diagrams will usually be in anatomical position... this is the standard position for reference... important becuase your lower arm bones (radius and ulna) rotate over eachother depending if you are palms out (supination) vs palms in (pronation) ... I also teach A&P.

Anatomical position
feet planted about shoulder width apart and toes pointing straight ahead (feet side by side... not turned out like ballet) .

Arms at side with palms facing forward.

head position neutral and looking straight ahead.

take a minute and stand like this and turn your hands palm in and back to palm out... you will see how different parts of the arm are visible depending on rotation... but the biceps does not move as much as the forarm. The autopsy diagram is in anatomical position.

 

[Disneychick75]

I was beginning to think I really had something wrong and I couldn't figure out what. I don't think the placement indicates either way what was going on or dismisses any witness accounts. The only thing it really shows is that he was moving during those first arm shots or standing with his arms up.

Now, I'm confused. So much for looking in my mirror. Please explain how Brown could get those wounds on his arms if they were raised. I'm not being snarky.