How do you handle the Holidays when...

[cabanafrau]

My mother was the same way. Rather than it causing me any pain or stress as a child, it taught me that I didn't have to pretend, play games or be submissive just because I was female. In the sixties and seventies, it was serious stuff for a little girl to learn. Don't worry about those bulletproof suits. They may get your kids into great schools, grad school, supportive marriages, excellent careers and a lifetime of learning and growth. I miss my mother and I love my suit!

Oh my daughters are grown, one in college, one a senior in HS. I'm very much a proponent for taking the heated moments in life and making them a kiln to harden your armor. I still think it's a shame that my IL's can't drop their staunch insistence on preaching their politics and other extreme interests to chit chat with their only grandchildren about what they're studying, what they're doing at work and their accomplishments in various activities. FIL is a retired teacher for goodness sake. You'd think he'd be interested in their studies at least.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Context can make all the difference.

Some on the DIS search for little nuggets of "proof". Especially, if they can be used against a particular poster or subject. It doesn't matter, if they are "true".

OP is perceived to be the "guilty" party and the "bad guy" (by some on this board). She was tried and convicted because of particular views, (that we aren't allowed to DIScuss here). Too bad a certain bias exists in most every conversation on the DIS. The focus is narrow and the "big picture" is often missed completely. This thread has been more of a "gotcha" game,"kick" the OP, or better yet..."Pile on Pat Fan" Pretty sad. IMO

 

[Wishing on a star]

I have also wondered about the husband, and the other son as well.

I am wondering if might be either failure, or refusal, to mention the other immediate family.

Are they a part of these issues? They are a part of the family.
Or, do they just not merit mention, as the OP is focused on her personal feelings?

 

[Wishing on a star]

OP is perceived to be the "guilty" party and the "bad guy" (by some on this board). She was tried and convicted because of particular views, (that we aren't allowed to DIScuss here). Too bad a certain bias exists in most every conversation on the DIS. The focus is narrow and the "big picture" is often missed completely. This thread has been more of a "gotcha" game,"kick" the OP, or better yet..."Pile on Pat Fan" Pretty sad. IMO

I can guarantee you, 100%, that this is NOT true for me.
I am DEFINITELY looking at the bigger picture.
I do believe that the issue you are referring to is a valid part of the difficulties the OP seems to have in her relationship with her son.
But, I have not, and WILL not, judge her for her feelings/views on that.
Overall, I think there are probably a couple of other issues that are probably just as important, if not more.

I do know that relationships and issues usually take two.
But, not having any info regarding the son and how he feels and why he has acted the way he has, I can not judge or fault him.
I have not heard the OP make any comments that would cause me to judge or fault him.

 

[jalapeno_pretzel]

Didn't the other son just get married a month ago? So if OP and SO have not met except for the 30 sec Walmart encounter, does that mean SO was not invited to the wedding? Or else declined the invitation? Wouldn't a boyfriend of 9 months of DS be invited to other DS wedding?

 

[LisaR]

OP'er, Do you know why your son is distancing himself? You don't have to tell us why, but do YOU know why? If so, can you fix it? It really is that simple. Identify the reason and work on resolving it. You keep asking him to do things with you, he keeps turning you down or cutting the time short, and now you are hurt and angry. That's understandable, but you need to resolve this before he distances himself completely out of your life. Inviting him on trips or over for the holidays isn't addressing the problem. Have you sat him down and tried to actually fix the issue?

 

[luvsJack]

I can guarantee you, 100%, that this is NOT true for me.
I am DEFINITELY looking at the bigger picture.
I do believe that the issue you are referring to is a valid part of the difficulties the OP seems to have in her relationship with her son.
But, I have not, and WILL not, judge her for her feelings/views on that.
Overall, I think there are probably a couple of other issues that are probably just as important, if not more.

I do know that relationships and issues usually take two.
But, not having any info regarding the son and how he feels and why he has acted the way he has, I can not judge or fault him.
I have not heard the OP make any comments that would cause me to judge or fault him.

So why do you judge and fault her?

She said he TOLD her that he has cut ties with his family and she doesn't know why but suspects outside influences. Is it that hard for us to just believe someone when they state something? Maybe he is listening to people that do not have a clue what they are talking about. Maybe he has decided he needs to "cut the apron strings" when there are none to be cut. Maybe one of his friends is not getting acceptance from his own family so has convinced her ds that he won't get acceptance from his. Maybe he is being a selfish 20 something that thinks the world revolves around him and his mom will be there when HE gets ready for her. It could be any million and one things but the automatic assumption here is that the OP did something to cause all this.

 

[okeydokey]

So why do you judge and fault her?

She said he TOLD her that he has cut ties with his family and she doesn't know why but suspects outside influences. Is it that hard for us to just believe someone when they state something? Maybe he is listening to people that do not have a clue what they are talking about. Maybe he has decided he needs to "cut the apron strings" when there are none to be cut. Maybe one of his friends is not getting acceptance from his own family so has convinced her ds that he won't get acceptance from his. Maybe he is being a selfish 20 something that thinks the world revolves around him and his mom will be there when HE gets ready for her. It could be any million and one things but the automatic assumption here is that the OP did something to cause all this.

I think people are just trying to help and using the info provided on this thread. For some reason the OPs son wants to limit the time spent with his family. However, the OPS son has not cut them out of his life. He is coming for a visit and bringing his boyfriend. That is a good thing. However, the OP clearly thinks this is not good enough for her. She is also angry that he turned down her offer to see the lights at Disney. Instead of being happy with what she has, she is angry about what she can't have.

This seems to me to drive a wedge into the relationship. We are just giving the OP our view of what we think she can do to remedy the problem, and that is to be happy to have a visit, even if it is not an all day affair full of stocking stuffers, gifts and long sit down dinner. The OP should see that she is not in charge of her son's life any more, even though she would like to have things back like the "used to be" before he grew up and decided to make his own decisions.

 

[luvsJack]

Hurt and angry are not always the same thing. Was she hurt (upset) or angry (upset)? I read "upset" and it can mean either/or.

Telling her that she is refusing to accept the son's boyfriend when she hasn't said that at all, is assuming, not helping. Whether he has cut them out of his life or not, that is what he SAID to her. So, whatever he meant by that, it is apparently, his words. So it seems to me, that by the OP's family's standard, he is backing away from the family. If HE thinks he has cut them out when he hasn't then obviously it doesn't mean the same thing to him as it does to us.


She is upset about the changes in their time as a family. That is not abnormal. She is hurt over what she perceives to be lack of caring on his part. Maybe it is a lack of caring, maybe it is not.

There are ways to suggest how to fix this problem (if there really is even a problem) without piling on the "control issues" and "can't accept the boyfriend" and "you have to let them grow up" attacks.

You may not have done this but others have.

 

[LisaR]

So why do you judge and fault her?

She said he TOLD her that he has cut ties with his family and she doesn't know why but suspects outside influences. Is it that hard for us to just believe someone when they state something? Maybe he is listening to people that do not have a clue what they are talking about. Maybe he has decided he needs to "cut the apron strings" when there are none to be cut. Maybe one of his friends is not getting acceptance from his own family so has convinced her ds that he won't get acceptance from his. Maybe he is being a selfish 20 something that thinks the world revolves around him and his mom will be there when HE gets ready for her. It could be any million and one things but the automatic assumption here is that the OP did something to cause all this.

Anything is possible, but I really don't believe the OP'er about the outside influences. She has made a few brief throw away sentences that lead me to believe she knows exactly what the problems are. She has mentioned the husband and "not getting into all that." I understand she doesn't want to put it on the internet and I respect that, but I think she wants to believe it is an outside influence instead of something that started in the home. Maybe I'm wrong and we may never know, but my gut tells me she knows exactly what is wrong.

 

[ariel71]

I have always said "if", "possible", "could be", etc. in my posts. I see absolutely nothing wrong with looking at prior posts for context, nor do I take statements at face value when there is so much that is obviously missing.

Of course there could be many scenarios at play. Of course this could all be the son's fault. I don't think that's lost on anyone. But as the saying goes, "when you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras". We know that OP leans a certain way politically. We know that party has done everything possible to block marriage equality. We now know that OP's son is gay. OP has said that her son was indoctrinated in college (on more than one thread). Although we don't know the context of that statement, "indoctrinated" is a pretty strong and unusual word. If (operative word "if") OP or her DH "accept" her son but espouse certain views against equality or homosexuality in general, there will probably always be a hurdle that can never be cleared, especially by the boyfriend who doesn't have a familial tie.

I think it's admirable that OP is reaching out and wants to maintain a relationship. However, I have a hard time believing that she has no idea why this is happening. The thread title is "how would I handle it"? I'd try to have an honest and open conversation with my son and address the underlying problem if I had a part in it. Doing something like moving Christmas to another day is nothing but a superficial band-aid.

Since OP has also explicitly stated in prior posts that her husband is the head of the house and makes final decisions, his position would come into play and we don't know what that is either.

 

[quandrea]

I think people are just trying to help and using the info provided on this thread. For some reason the OPs son wants to limit the time spent with his family. However, the OPS son has not cut them out of his life. He is coming for a visit and bringing his boyfriend. That is a good thing. However, the OP clearly thinks this is not good enough for her. She is also angry that he turned down her offer to see the lights at Disney. Instead of being happy with what she has, she is angry about what she can't have.

This seems to me to drive a wedge into the relationship. We are just giving the OP our view of what we think she can do to remedy the problem, and that is to be happy to have a visit, even if it is not an all day affair full of stocking stuffers, gifts and long sit down dinner. The OP should see that she is not in charge of her son's life any more, even though she would like to have things back like the "used to be" before he grew up and decided to make his own decisions.

Amen to that!

 

[NewRVLady]

Didn't the other son just get married a month ago? So if OP and SO have not met except for the 30 sec Walmart encounter, does that mean SO was not invited to the wedding? Or else declined the invitation? Wouldn't a boyfriend of 9 months of DS be invited to other DS wedding?

Maybe THIS is the quarrel?
Gay son maybe did not attend?
Could be why they are both seeing parents at different times on XMass

 

[TLSnell1981]

.
". We know that OP leans a certain way politically. We know that party has done everything possible to block marriage equality.

And, there's the bias.

Believe it or not, many focus on multiple issues. One may or may not agree with EVERY aspect of a particular platform.

 

[kollerbear]

Wow, I'm really impressed by generally how respectful this conversation has been, even with disagreements.

OP--new relationships at that age are tricky to navigate. You know if there are deeper issues going on regarding the boyfriend/SO. We can speculate to what they are, but odds are that you know. Whether you're caught in the middle or tied up in it yourself, just be grateful that you still have a relationship with your son and recognize he's navigating a tricky time in his life. Don't expect him to put himself through hostility just to spend family time with you--whether that is coming from yourself, his dad, brother, an uncle, whatever. Hostility can be as personal as not being invited to a wedding and as general as listening to someone spout on about politics you disagree with. It may not be directed at you, but it's tiresome.

I'd also add that the limited time frame is very likely for his boyfriend/SO's sake. It's great that you find meeting people so easy, but it's very draining for others. What some family consider to be warm and welcoming, is really not so much to others. My husband's family is generally much colder and more stand-offish than my family, and I feel uncomfortable around them even though they are very kind to me and have given me very few reasons to feel that way. They think they are very warm--and in many ways they are--but their nonverbal cues and signals are cold and very distracting to me. I get exhausted pretty quickly around them because I never feel quite at ease. My husband feels very overwhelmed around my family in longer doses, too, especially when we're all together around the holidays. He's not used to the intensity of it all. I think planning to see family in 3-4 hour chunks is a great idea, especially around the holidays. If things are going great, you can stay longer. If not, expectations are already in place and you can leave easily when you are too tired. It's possible they spend more time with his family because they find it easier. Maybe your son is more adaptable than his boyfriend/SO. That's not something to be hurt over necessarily.

Keep trying to make plans with your son in small doses. As others said, whirlwind trips are not fun and relaxing for everyone. Try to make plans for brunch or lunch, keep it light and simple. You're lucky that you live close enough that this is possible. Nothing is more frustrating than having family that makes small insinuations that you're not doing enough for them, when the efforts that you are making are more difficult than they realize. Have patience and love.

(Oh--and the response re: college loans vs. credit card debt sounded a wee bit telling. Being judgy about your kids' finances makes them feel horrible, NOT inspired to do better. It doesn't matter what kind of debt it is, just let go of your feelings about it.)

 

[ariel71]

And, there's the bias.

Believe it or not, many focus on multiple issues. One may or may not agree with EVERY aspect of a particular platform.

Which is why I repeatedly use words like "could" and "if", but you seem to want to ignore that. It's not just the political affiliation alone; I agree that would be biased. It's everything taken together. That political leaning, the concerted effort to hide her son's sexuality, words like "the other family" and "indoctrination", her son's SO turning away from her at the store, being asked point blank if her son's homosexuality was part of the issue and not responding - all of it paints a certain picture. That picture may be wrong. But I don't think it's unreasonable to draw some conclusions based on what's been posted.

"My son is gay and lives with his boyfriend. We have no issue with that and have told him so, so I don't think that has anything to do with why he's limiting contact, at least as far as I can tell". Wouldn't that have been much easier? Of course, you couldn't say that if it wasn't true and then you're back to avoiding the real issue. I'm a pragmatic person and just don't understand the point of being surreptitious about this. If you truly want to know how to handle it and stop from being heart-broken, that is.

 

[pat fan]

It's great that you find meeting people so easy,

???? I said the exact opposite, even went back and re-read it to be sure.

 

[pat fan]

(Oh--and the response re: college loans vs. credit card debt sounded a wee bit telling. Being judgy about your kids' finances makes them feel horrible, NOT inspired to do better. It doesn't matter what kind of debt it is, just let go of your feelings about it.)

I don't understand that? I was just clarifying if I had miss-spoken. He has college loans like a million other people. He pays them on time and is very responsible with it. He also has CC debt. Had quite a bit. He struggles with that. Has said in the past he has panic attacks over that debt. Last year we had an opportunity to do something to help with it so we put a fair chunk of money on those CC's to help. How is that judgy???

 

[NewRVLady]

Didn't the other son just get married a month ago? So if OP and SO have not met except for the 30 sec Walmart encounter, does that mean SO was not invited to the wedding? Or else declined the invitation? Wouldn't a boyfriend of 9 months of DS be invited to other DS wedding?

I just went back and looked at threads OP started
I now realize she started the "selling raffle tickets for Bachelor party thread"
And that the other son married in a VERY strict church ( and the bachelor party was in church basement).... So it is very easy to assume having his gay brother and partner at wedding probably didn't happen

 

[pat fan]

I am purposely not answering folks who are on the attack and am not going to. I choose not to play that game, but I will say my DS was IN his brothers wedding.