How do you handle the Holidays when...

[wilkeliza]

Pat Fan, I must admit you have gotten some people who have assumed things about you and your family that just don't seem to be the case.

As a PP mentioned though I would dig down deep and make sure everything you are doing is with the right intention and not to try to hard. Also watch any unintended language. It happens to us all. It could just be the language we have always grown up using or things we didn't realize might be pushing those around us away. I converted to Judaism from a very Christian family so sometimes people say things that come off as hurtful that they didn't mean to me. The most interesting was when I told my grandma who said "Oh sweet heart, we don't care it is your afterlife so your choice" and although I'm sure she meant nothing by that I took it as pretty offensive. I was hurt and didn't talk to her for a little bit. I got over it after awhile as I love my grandma but I do cringe every time someone uses "your people" to me.

 

[eliza61]

So why do you judge and fault her?

She said he TOLD her that he has cut ties with his family and she doesn't know why but suspects outside influences. Is it that hard for us to just believe someone when they state something? Maybe he is listening to people that do not have a clue what they are talking about. Maybe he has decided he needs to "cut the apron strings" when there are none to be cut. Maybe one of his friends is not getting acceptance from his own family so has convinced her ds that he won't get acceptance from his. Maybe he is being a selfish 20 something that thinks the world revolves around him and his mom will be there when HE gets ready for her. It could be any million and one things but the automatic assumption here is that the OP did something to cause all this.

+100
Who knew so many dissers were psychiatrist
Lol

Threads usually have a 6 page limit, tend to spiral out of control after that

 

[kollerbear]

???? I said the exact opposite, even went back and re-read it to be sure.

I'm sorry, I thought I'd remembered reading that you said you enjoy having people over and find it really easy to be warm to a variety of people in your home, which is why you felt for sure that the boyfriend/SO wouldn't have a reason to be uncomfortable. I may be misinterpreting or mis-remembering, and I do apologize for that.

I don't understand that? I was just clarifying if I had miss-spoken. He has college loans like a million other people. He pays them on time and is very responsible with it. He also has CC debt. Had quite a bit. He struggles with that. Has said in the past he has panic attacks over that debt. Last year we had an opportunity to do something to help with it so we put a fair chunk of money on those CC's to help. How is that judgy???

Sorry, again I feel like a lot of people are happy to see college loans as an understandable debt, while credit card debt means that the person is irresponsible. My parents are like this and their comments to me have been very alienating at times in my life where this was an issue for me. I know credit card debt is not always created equal and I could just imagine this being something your son might also be sensitive about. I'm not saying it's not a struggle that he faces, or that you necessarily are judgy, but especially understanding how stressful that debt must be for him makes it especially easy for me to see how he would get relief from putting more money towards that as opposed to taking a whirlwind trip. When you are struggling to make ends meet, extravagances can feel wasteful and stressful.

 

[kollerbear]

I want to add I'm really not meaning to attack, just provide context as someone at a similar stage in life as your son-- or someone who is very close to that stage in life. Negotiating all of this stuff is really hard and his priorities need to be with his new family (because that is what happens when you live with someone else-- you now have a new family whose peculiarities and needs you are only just beginning to understand.)

 

[pat fan]

especially easy for me to see how he would get relief from putting more money towards that as opposed to taking a whirlwind trip. When you are struggling to make ends meet, extravagances can feel wasteful and stressful.

I'm officially not taking any more insults personally on this thread...ever again! LOL! Apparently those the most critical don't even read what I write. I feel much btter now!

The trip was expense free, it would have been a gift, pretty dang sure I said that the trip would be in lieu of presents.

 

[jalapeno_pretzel]

I will say my DS was IN his brothers wedding.

So was the SO there also at the wedding then? But you just didn't talk at that time? I see how that could put a strain on things if so.

 

[kollerbear]

I'm officially not taking any more insults personally on this thread...ever again! LOL! Apparently those the most critical don't even read what I write. I feel much btter now!

The trip was expense free, it would have been a gift, pretty dang sure I said that the trip would be in lieu of presents.

You did! But knowing that the money is going towards something like that when you yourself are struggling and would so much rather just have the cash... I think a lot of people would understand how that could be tough to sit through. While it might make a lot of sense to you to put your money towards that, it might be hard for him to watch it get spent that way when he so badly needs it for other things.

ETA: I LOVE Disney and am heartbroken that I'm missing the last year of the lights. However, if I were given the exact same offer by my parents I would definitely not take them up on it. Too much travel, too short of a trip, and too wasteful of $.

 

[ahutton]

Suggested Disney visit to see the lights was unacceptably rejected in OP's mind

I just wanted to give a different perspective - I didn't get that she thought it unacceptably rejected, just that she was exceptionally sad it was rejected. For me, something like that is so full of wonderful family-time memories, ones that can't be repeated after this year, that I would do just about anything to go experience it one more time. Maybe she has special memories the way I do about it...

 

[pat fan]

I just wanted to give a different perspective - I didn't get that she thought it unacceptably rejected, just that she was exceptionally sad it was rejected. For me, something like that is so full of wonderful family-time memories, ones that can't be repeated after this year, that I would do just about anything to go experience it one more time. Maybe she has special memories the way I do about it...

You are correct. I knew it was a long shot for two reasons, but I also thought it was worth a shot. We have done other mad-cap things as a family in years past and it would have been fun, IMO, to do so again. One DS had just taken time off work for a honeymoon and the other DS, as I've stated, has backed away from family. I was right on both counts. I understand being out of vacation days, but just choosing to not participate does hurt.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Again, the admission here...
Not just 'disappointed', but upset and 'hurt'...
Wow.

Which brings this post back to mind...

I'm going to ask this question here but I don't necessarily mean it as something I want you to answer me, but answer for your own self because I think it is very important. Why were you "extremely upset" that he didn't want to go see the lights? I think the honest answer to that will be very helpful for you to admit to yourself. Like I said, I'm not asking for you to answer and feed any drama here, but to be bluntly honest with yourself if you have not done so.

I'll say this as respectfully as I can, this is a control issue with you. It is the same reason you're dancing a jig around why the timing and length of the Christmas visit doesn't suit, and why you'd prefer not to have the first real meeting be on Christmas. This doesn't mean you're a bad person or a bad mom, but it is presenting an obstacle to something you desire very much, a close relationship with your son. You're going to have to make a choice, will it be more a priority for you to be in the driver's seat or will you sit in the backseat (and bite your tongue if necessary to avoid backseat driving) and enjoy the leisurely drive to wherever if it means you spend some quality time with your son, hopefully on a relatively frequent basis?

Since you've been pretty beaten up here and probably would like to wring my neck, I'll give you a bit of a breather and give you some entirely different types of questions to consider. Does your son share some of your personality traits? Is it his way or the highway? Did the apple fall beneath your tree? Possibly you haven't even considered that if things at home ran on your master plan, he went off to college and then out on his own and began falling into the behaviors he grew up with. You may need to put some more thought into exactly who this grown man is. You may need to consider getting to know both your son as full fledged adult AND his SO.

I sincerely hope your holidays are wonderful and you enjoy the time you spend with your son and his SO, and vice versa. Maybe by next Christmas you'll all be ready to start some new traditions everyone will look forward to.

 

[NewRVLady]

I am purposely not answering folks who are on the attack and am not going to. I choose not to play that game, but I will say my DS was IN his brothers wedding.

But where was his friend?
My son didn't go to one of the weddings his then girlfriend was in and that caused a problem - which they worked out.
I would imagine there was a rehearsal dinner he could have attended, and guessing the friend did neither- since you haven't met him--and that is sad.
( not attacking- just wondering why the SO wasn't there)

 

[kaytieeldr]

I am purposely not answering folks who are on the attack and am not going to. I choose not to play that game, but I will say my DS was IN his brothers wedding.

So was the SO there also at the wedding then? But you just didn't talk at that time? I see how that could put a strain on things if so.

Could the SO's - and the son's - reactions/feelings/plans be due to how they were treated at the wedding? Wasn't there a mention of it being at a very conservative church?

 

[KathyTX]

Gang, please discuss the topic and questions the OP has posed, but avoid talking ABOUT the OP in the sense of commenting on her politics or past posts. Crossing this line may be interpreted as a personal attack, so please choose your responses here carefully and kindly.

THANKS!

 

[TLSnell1981]

You did! But knowing that the money is going towards something like that when you yourself are struggling and would so much rather just have the cash... I think a lot of people would understand how that could be tough to sit through. While it might make a lot of sense to you to put your money towards that, it might be hard for him to watch it get spent that way when he so badly needs it for other things.

ETA: I LOVE Disney and am heartbroken that I'm missing the last year of the lights. However, if I were given the exact same offer by my parents I would definitely not take them up on it. Too much travel, too short of a trip, and too wasteful of $.

You would tell someone, how they should spend THEIR money? If, I didn't appreciate or want the gift, I wouldn't accept it. I would NEVER EVER ask for cash or alternate gift...neither would my children. Personally, I couldn't imagine responding in that manner.

 

[kollerbear]

You would tell someone, how they should spend THEIR money? If, I didn't appreciate or want the gift, I wouldn't accept it. I would NEVER EVER ask for cash or alternate gift...neither would my children. Personally, I couldn't imagine responding in that manner.

No, that's not what I meant! I'm surprised that the son asked for money, but perhaps it was presented to him as an alternative? I don't want to make any assumptions about how that conversation went down. However, I know that if that was offered to ME--especially if I was struggling to pay off debts for example--going to Disney World would feel uncomfortable to me. Sometimes when you really need money, being in an environment where it feels like it is being easily spent or squandered can be really uncomfortable. I'm not saying it's a JUDGEMENT about how the money should be spent, but I think still it can feel uncomfortable and unwanted. And perhaps a little out of touch with what my needs and current life situation are. ETA: My point more than anything is that I can totally understand why he might not want to have taken this trip, and choosing not to participate is just that-- not something with any malice or hurt intended, but a choice to be protective of himself in whatever way--be it emotionally, time/stress-wise, whatever.

 

[kollerbear]

You would tell someone, how they should spend THEIR money? If, I didn't appreciate or want the gift, I wouldn't accept it. I would NEVER EVER ask for cash or alternate gift...neither would my children. Personally, I couldn't imagine responding in that manner.

Sorry, I do see that I said "when you'd so much rather have the money"-- I don't mean to imply you should ASK for the money. But when someone is dangling an expensive, capricious trip in front of you as a gift when you so badly need the money, I think it's hard not think to yourself, "geez, I just could really use that money. I know you think you're being generous by offering me something I don't need, but geez, that is tough. I can't sit here and not think about how much this cost, thinking how much that money could have really helped me." I'm not saying you say this to somebody. But I'm saying I can easily see how offering a trip like this could make a person feel this way, especially in those tough first few years out on your own.

 

[luvsJack]

Again, the admission here...
Not just 'disappointed', but upset and 'hurt'...
Wow.

Which brings this post back to mind...

Oh jeez. You have a teenager, right? You do realize that at some point in his life he is going to do or say something that hurts your feelings. Not intentionally of course, but you won't describe it as dissapointed or upset or angry but hurt. Not saying you will dwell on it for years or disown your son but it will hurt your feelings.

 

[lizabu]

I think the poster who said this is your big chance had it right. I think you should dedicate yourself to making sure that the boyfriend feels welcome and loved when they come. Three hours may not be what you were hoping for but its way more than a lot of parents get. If you are concerned about getting to know the boyfriend before Christmas or if you just feel like you want to know this guy better it wouldn't hurt to try. You mentioned you drop off coffee for your son. What if next time you asked if you could come in? You could try to strike up a conversation with your sons boyfriend. We honestly have no way of knowing if he blew you off at Walmart because he has a problem with you, if he thinks you have a problem with him or maybe he just wanted to finish his shopping and get the heck out of Walmart. He may not have even realized that he came off as rude. All you can do is try from your end. If he doesn't want to like you there's nothing you can do about it.

 

[Nancyg56]

I just wanted to give a different perspective - I didn't get that she thought it unacceptably rejected, just that she was exceptionally sad it was rejected. For me, something like that is so full of wonderful family-time memories, ones that can't be repeated after this year, that I would do just about anything to go experience it one more time. Maybe she has special memories the way I do about it...

The only thing is that a gift that causes any stress is not a gift. My oldest will never do a vacation like what was described here. He hates to fly. I mean he detests it. He cannot stand crowds. He would be like a bull in a china shop if I dragged his sorry carcass with us just to make me happy. He has come with us one other time. A trip to NYC. 1 night. He was miserable Oh, he made the best of it, he kind of enjoyed it. He would probably refuse the gift if i asked him again.

Now if I told him we were all going on a cruise he and is wife would join in. But my DD and her family would not. Sometimes as a parent you just have to accept that an adult child has distinct likes and dislikes, and there will be times that no matter the fond memories you have for any experience, your child may have the opposite recollection.

You are correct. I knew it was a long shot for two reasons, but I also thought it was worth a shot. We have done other mad-cap things as a family in years past and it would have been fun, IMO, to do so again. One DS had just taken time off work for a honeymoon and the other DS, as I've stated, has backed away from family. I was right on both counts. I understand being out of vacation days, but just choosing to not participate does hurt.

It does, but as I said before, there comes a time when you have to accept that a matriarch of a family stops having the last word once her children become adults and have their own family.

I love my sister. A lot! However if i could give her one piece of advice that she would be willing to listen to it would be this: STOP. JUST STOP. All of her children are adults. Two have served 5 active duty tours collectively in the Marine Corps, and both young men are wildly successful In their own way. Her daughters are both incredibly amazing young women, one is a state trooper and the other is a realtor. So we are not talking people who lack common sense and personal responsibility. Sis want to plan a family trip...all expenses paid. On a cruise. Sound good? To her it does, and she is furious that her "gift" has been unanimously turned down by all four. Why you ask? One son works in Washington DC in an extremely difficult job and is pursuing his Masters. He really cannot get away and if he could a cruise would not be his choice. The other son is a deck hand on a crab fishing boat. Yes...just like deadliest catch, but in the Atlantic. The last thing he will ever do for a vacation in get on another boat. Her oldest daughter's fiance is sea sick The last time they tried she was like death the whole time. My niece asked if there was anything else they could do. No. The youngest is afraid of the water and will not go.

So I asked my sister.....anything else you all could do? No, she wants a cruise. The gift is not a gift, it is a command performance, and one that is typical of her when it comes to her kids. They are adults. They know what they can and cannot do, and if she refuses to respect them, they stay away. She asked me why we never seem to be able to shake mine off and she never can get her to voluntarily do anything with her and I told her it is because I leave mine alone. I respect their differences and I as that they respect mine. I not only "tolerate" their life partners, I love them and I like them. It is not easy to be the "newbie" in a family, so as each new person was introduced to us, I worked hard to get to know them as individuals, and I made time to spend time. On their terms. And I never compare one to the other. My gosh, my two DDIL's are as different as night and day, with one as loving and nurturing as can be and the other a bit pushy and domineering. My sons both are perfectly paired with these women, so I figure if it works for them, I can make them work for me.

OP- stop being my sister. I know that you love your family, it is so clear in every post. However love is not conditional. Gifts are just that, gifts. When you gift someone, you need to make sure who the gift is for...you or the person who is the recipient. Just step back and let you son come to you, be kind to his friend, an know that if the relationship develops into something more serious, you will have another son.

 

[cabanafrau]

You would tell someone, how they should spend THEIR money? If, I didn't appreciate or want the gift, I wouldn't accept it. I would NEVER EVER ask for cash or alternate gift...neither would my children. Personally, I couldn't imagine responding in that manner.

That information set off a whole new system of warning lights for me, and is why I raised the possibility of the son liking to run the table the same way mom has described she does. If OP hasn't really experienced fully the dynamics of this son as a full grown adult, it's understandable why she would still react to him the same way as the HS and college version she's very familiar with.

Family dynamics run deep and are very stubborn to change. When a family member grows and matures to a different phase they often revert when back in the bosom of their family, which often presents confusion and issues with a mate who is familiar only with the new version. When the changed or matured family member behaves like their new normal while with their family that can also present issues and cause clashes out of discomfort and confusion.

Bottom line, OP wants a close relationship with her son. I'm sure any parent understands that and agrees. Keep that goal the priority. Don't get hung up on petty details about how long, what time, preferred setting for a first visit, refusal of trip OP considered ideal location, duration, timing, event and convenient to DS' use of vacation time. Doesn't matter. "We'd love to see you whenever you can be here." Take what you can get, relish it, appreciate it, show it and maybe it will grow with time.

Something else that's been bugging me is if this son's Christmas visit is too short, how long can the other son's visit be if it won't coincide with his brother's 3 hour visit? Wouldn't his too short, inconveniently timed visit be under fire as well? I would think it would cause quite a bit of animosity if one brother's scheduling was deemed appropriately set in stone while the other's were expected to be dictated by the executive committee.

OP, if you're truly puzzled about the situation, sit down and think it all out, bald faced truth, in your own mind. Some suggestions outlined in the thread may be ridiculous, some may have some vein of truth running through them. Use whatever you can to spark your thoughts about causes of conflict surrounding your son. Remember, your end goal is a close relationship with your son, not covering your behind for any blunders you've made to contribute to the problem.

ETA, my words are not meant to elicit any thoughts from you here about your ideas as to any mistakes or even any defense you'd like to raise. My questions aren't to feed the drama here, but to help you think out the puzzle. I would however gladly read any good updates about how things are improving, because I am rooting for your family, even if it looks like I'm punching you in the face here.