How do you handle the Holidays when...

[quandrea]

I'm going to ask this question here but I don't necessarily mean it as something I want you to answer me, but answer for your own self because I think it is very important. Why were you "extremely upset" that he didn't want to go see the lights? I think the honest answer to that will be very helpful for you to admit to yourself. Like I said, I'm not asking for you to answer and feed any drama here, but to be bluntly honest with yourself if you have not done so.

I'll say this as respectfully as I can, this is a control issue with you. It is the same reason you're dancing a jig around why the timing and length of the Christmas visit doesn't suit, and why you'd prefer not to have the first real meeting be on Christmas. This doesn't mean you're a bad person or a bad mom, but it is presenting an obstacle to something you desire very much, a close relationship with your son. You're going to have to make a choice, will it be more a priority for you to be in the driver's seat or will you sit in the backseat (and bite your tongue if necessary to avoid backseat driving) and enjoy the leisurely drive to wherever if it means you spend some quality time with your son, hopefully on a relatively frequent basis?

Since you've been pretty beaten up here and probably would like to wring my neck, I'll give you a bit of a breather and give you some entirely different types of questions to consider. Does your son share some of your personality traits? Is it his way or the highway? Did the apple fall beneath your tree? Possibly you haven't even considered that if things at home ran on your master plan, he went off to college and then out on his own and began falling into the behaviors he grew up with. You may need to put some more thought into exactly who this grown man is. You may need to consider getting to know both your son as full fledged adult AND his SO.

I sincerely hope your holidays are wonderful and you enjoy the time you spend with your son and his SO, and vice versa. Maybe by next Christmas you'll all be ready to start some new traditions everyone will look forward to.

Wow Cabanafrau, you just nailed my experience last Christmas.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I agree with SO many of the comments here.
Not beating up on the OP, at all, but basically just observing the obvious.

About that short trip...
My DH and I finally decided that we just would not travel with his parents.
THEY ALWAYS HAD TO BE IN THE DRIVERS SEAT.

And, just in general, I would never, ever, agree to travel with somebody that I had not known a while and knew that I would be comfortable with.
If somebody were not able to understand and accept that, then that might present an issue.

OP, you might never, ever, travel with your son and whomever his partner might be.
That is just a possibility, and not uncommon reality.

As long as you are unable to see, and to become comfortable with, reality, and to meet your son halfway... without becoming upset, and without hoping for and demanding more (such as the amount of time together at Christmas) then this will make it hard for you to have a positive relationship.

It is not a good thing to be focused on having reality match one's own desires and expectations. Doesn't always turn out that way.

Having said that...
I, too, hope that you have a very nice time with your son over the Holidays!
I would definitely view this as a possible new chapter!

 

[GaryDis]

She has mentioned in other threads that she felt college "indoctrinated" her son. That definitely doesn't sound like something someone would say that agrees with her son's "lifestyle".

Rubbish. That's terrible. We are born with the sexual preferences we are going to have. It may get honed or tweaked a little, but we get what we get.

As near as I can tell, she only mentioned it once in the "Unpopular Opinions" thread, and just said that "colleges indoctrinate", without mention of her son or any specific issue. Elsewhere she mentioned that her college educated son had trouble finding work after college while his younger brother went to work right out of high school, so there are clearly other possibilities to what she meant behind that comment.

Aside: I find it a little creepy to go searching for individuals' prior posts, a bit too close to internet stalking. I understand why people may have done that here, and that obviously compelled me to do so, but within any specific discussion, I really prefer to take people at face value at what they say within the discussion, and not go looking for evidence elsewhere.

 

[NewRVLady]

I agree with SO many of the comments here.
Not beating up on the OP, at all, but basically just observing the obvious.

About that short trip...
My DH and I finally decided that we just would not travel with his parents.
THEY ALWAYS HAD TO BE IN THE DRIVERS SEAT.

And, just in general, I would never, ever, agree to travel with somebody that I had not known a while and knew that I would be comfortable with.
If somebody were not able to understand and accept that, then that might present an issue.

OP, you might never, ever, travel with your son and whomever his partner might be.
That is just a possibility, and not uncommon reality.
!

You nailed it!
I can NOT imagine being upset because an adult child doesn't want to do a quickie trip to WDW

about the driving thing....DH always wants to drive...EXCEPT in CT & NY when we are on that crazy 1-95...we let my son and wife drive-its just too hectic for us! they are also the pros to the Train into "The City" (see? I know the jargon now )...and the subways-which I LOVE riding!

 

[SparklePixie]

As near as I can tell, she only mentioned it once in the "Unpopular Opinions" thread, and just said that "colleges indoctrinate", without mention of her son or any specific issue. Elsewhere she mentioned that her college educated son had trouble finding work after college while his younger brother went to work right out of high school, so there are clearly other possibilities to what she meant behind that comment.

Aside: I find it a little creepy to go searching for individuals' prior posts, a bit too close to internet stalking. I understand why people may have done that here, and that obviously compelled me to do so, but within any specific discussion, I really prefer to take people at face value at what they say within the discussion, and not go looking for evidence elsewhere.

Context can make all the difference.

 

[cabanafrau]

My reference to driving, the driver's seat, the backseat and backseat driving was all metaphorical -- trying but failing to make a point about control.

 

[GaryDis]

I'll say this as respectfully as I can, this is a control issue with you.

I get what you're saying, but I'm not sure "control" is precisely the right word. The OP is clearly very tied to her children, and sincerely wants them to be part of her life, even as adults. Just reading the experiences of other people here makes it clear that some people think it's fine when the kids show up just before Thanksgiving dinner and leave soon after dessert, while others find it very painful when their kids don't stick around for a few hours of socializing or watching football. The OP is in the second group.

So, while there may be some issues of control, the harder question to understand and tackle is that love can't be measured by minutes on the clock or time spent together, though many people do. (Reference the other thread about the DIL who was reading at the campfire, not joining in the discussion.)

It's the lack of time together, and not the lack of control, that creates the pain.

 

[quandrea]

My reference to driving, the driver's seat, the backseat and backseat driving was all metaphorical -- trying but failing to make a point about control.

You made your point. I think you are spot on.

 

[GaryDis]

EXCEPT in CT & NY when we are on that crazy 1-95.

There's a reason why I much prefer taking the Merritt Parkway to I95 (and the Wilbur Cross to I91). Though once you get into NY, it's all crazy.

 

[cabanafrau]

I get what you're saying, but I'm not sure "control" is precisely the right word. The OP is clearly very tied to her children, and sincerely wants them to be part of her life, even as adults. Just reading the experiences of other people here makes it clear that some people think it's fine when the kids show up just before Thanksgiving dinner and leave soon after dessert, while others find it very painful when their kids don't stick around for a few hours of socializing or watching football. The OP is in the second group.

So, while there may be some issues of control, the harder question to understand and tackle is that love can't be measured by minutes on the clock or time spent together, though many people do. (Reference the other thread about the DIL who was reading at the campfire, not joining in the discussion.)

It's the lack of time together, and not the lack of control, that creates the pain.

But you simply cannot ignore the factor that the time together must. suit. OP's. wishes. Christmas visit isn't long enough, won't coincide with sibling's visit if I understand correctly, and isn't a day OP wants to meet SO and spend any time with him. Suggested Disney visit to see the lights was unacceptably rejected in OP's mind -- is it an invitation or a command appearance?

Lack of time together is absolutely painful. There is a likelihood that control of any time together may be a root cause why time together is dwindling. It seems reasonable to suggest that OP can pick control or time together, not both. Some of her latest comments suggest to me her son may also have a strong appetite for control. I don't know about anybody else, but one of the things that chaps my fanny most about my daughters is when they have the nerve to go and act like their mother -- some of our biggest clashes.

 

[NewRVLady]

There's a reason why I much prefer taking the Merritt Parkway to I95 (and the Wilbur Cross to I91). Though once you get into NY, it's all crazy.

Gary...LOL...I INSIST my DH drive the Merritt when we arrive and depart-I go OUT OF MY WAY to take it!

Funny-when son arrived -driving-right out of college-8 years ago-he actually messaged us that there was this awesome road (The Merritt) with NO Trucks ( which we call 18 wheelers Down South)-haha

 

[Hrhpd]

Aside: I find it a little creepy to go searching for individuals' prior posts, a bit too close to internet stalking. I understand why people may have done that here, and that obviously compelled me to do so, but within any specific discussion, I really prefer to take people at face value at what they say within the discussion, and not go looking for evidence elsewhere.

I don't even do that in real life. I don't think that is fair to the other person. If somebody says something that is eyebrow raising or controversial, you bet I am going to verify that I didn't misinterpret the statement. I will ask the speaker what they mean and then I will ask people that know the person well if what I heard is right to verify.

Taking a statement at face value with no understanding of context can lead to a whole lot of misunderstanding. I know by reading some of her older posts, it changed the way I looked at this thread and in a positive way for the OP.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I agree with Cabanafrau... And, yes, I totally get the meaning of the 'in the driver's seat' analogy.

Speaking of 'control'...
We always did drive, ourselves, when we did try traveling with my inlaws.
(I also used the phrase 'driver's seat' as an analogy for 'in control'.)
The one last time we ever tried traveling with them, they proceeded to tell us where we SHOULD have parked when we arrived at the condo-resort. (the parking lot for the building behind theirs, on a dark rainy night, cutting across the parking lots and grass, mud, puddles, etc.. in the dark, after storms had taken out ALL exterior lighting... with our toddler and all luggage in tow... 'because then we can see our car from the unit'

No, the OP does not have to be as bad as my inlaws for me to see that she wants everyone to go along with her thoughts, expectations, and desires.. Because "WE think it would be great to make that trip..." Because "WE always do stockings"... "Because WE are family..." etc.

When young adults leave the control of their parents and go to to college, and into the various other views and opinions and influences in the world.. they are 'indoctrinated'.

I do feel like I have enough input and info here to have come to that general opinion.

And, Cabanafrau.... The fact that there seems to be some signs of 'control' with the son... I am thinking that this could be either of two things... Yes, sometimes the apple does not fall far from the tree. And, in my experience with others who are controlling, often one has to learn to be proactive and take back control, as a preemptive protective measure.

 

[gwynne]

OP-
It's a heck of a lot easier if the parents can take a step back, and listen. Be friendly, easygoing and warm, in the same way you'd be with a new neighbor. And the whole Christmas thing? It's a day. Don't make expectations so high that no one can meet them. What really matters is that your son and his boyfriend feel welcome and valued.
My take is that over time the relationship between you and your son has become strained. It's going to take time to repair that. Start where you're at, and build.
Give your son the space to lead, and limit the expectations.

 

[Wishing on a star]

NO, I do not consider taking a look at what a poster might have said on a subject, on the very same, public and open, chatboard that one is choosing to participate in, as creepy, stalking, etc.. NOT AT ALL.

I, myself, do not generally do that... I don't know if I ever have.

At times this might not be 'fair'.

But, hey, if you are participating in an open community, it is out there... chances are others are familiar or have seen it.

 

[luvsJack]

Sounds like the OP is sad that some of the things they have always done as a family are going to the way side. That's normal and not necessarily "controlling". It's hard when your children become adults and no longer want to be a part of the plans they have always been a part of. If the relationship is there, she will find that things get back to the way she remembers to some degree. Christmas morning changes maybe but Christmas night might be the better family time. Or you may have to change it every year. Or maybe a different kind of family trip would be more to everyone's liking. Or just a family cook out here and there and a Sunday dinner and no family vacations. Its different for every family.
And it sounds like she will just have to find what works for them. And yes, believe it or not, usually its the mother (or mil) that makes the plans because everyone else just doesn't. I have been very blessed with a dil that makes family plans all the time. I tell her all the time she is wonderful at making memories for all of us. But I know that for many families it is still the mom that makes the plans for them. She just has to keep trying until she figures out what works.

So many here do not have close families that want to be together a lot, and that's ok. Doesn't make those that are the opposite wrong either. If that's the way its always been for the OP's family and now its changing, its ok for her to be sad.

IF she does have issues with her son being gay, then that is something she needs to come to grips with if she wants to continue a relationship with her son. No two ways about that. But since they still communicate, I don't really think that is the problem. But it sounds like she loves her son and is willing to do whatever it takes to mend their relationship or whatever is needing to be done.

Family is "WE". And for a whole lot of families out there it includes everyone in that family---children, siblings, gf, bf, spouses, aunts, uncles, whatever. So, how else would she say things that are tradition in their family? If stockings are part of their tradition then wouldn't it be "WE"? And there is more than one son. If stockings are a tradition in that family and everyone but this one son wants to keep it up, seems to me he just needs to suck it up.

Gywnne is right, take a step back, OP, and go slow. Your son isn't gone from you.

And you may not have done one thing to cause any of this. It very well could just be his age and where he's at in life right now.

 

[Southernmiss]

I've read this while thread and wonder where op's Dh is in all of this. Is she caught in the middle?

 

[cabanafrau]

I agree with Cabanafrau... And, yes, I totally get the meaning of the 'in the driver's seat' analogy.

Speaking of 'control'...
We always did drive, ourselves, when we did try traveling with my inlaws.
(I also used the phrase 'driver's seat' as an analogy for 'in control'.)
The one last time we ever tried traveling with them, they proceeded to tell us where we SHOULD have parked when we arrived at the condo-resort. (the parking lot for the building behind theirs, on a dark rainy night, cutting across the parking lots and grass, mud, puddles, etc.. in the dark, after storms had taken out ALL exterior lighting... with our toddler and all luggage in tow... 'because then we can see our car from the unit'

No, the OP does not have to be as bad as my inlaws for me to see that she wants everyone to go along with her thoughts, expectations, and desires.. Because "WE think it would be great to make that trip..." Because "WE always do stockings"... "Because WE family..." etc.

When young adults leave the control of their parents and go to to college, and into the various other views and opinions and influences in the world.. they are 'indoctrinated'.

I do feel like I have enough input and info here to have come to that general opinion.

And, Cabanafrau.... The fact that there seems to be some signs of 'control' with the son... I am thinking that this could be either of two things... Yes, sometimes the apple does not fall far from the tree. And, in my experience with others who are controlling, often one has to learn to be proactive and take back control, as a preemptive protective measure.

If you have to deal with overbearing and controlling individuals you absolutely do develop strategies. I wrote a book several pages back about what it's like to interact with DH's family. It's an art to make an attempt to have a relationship and participate in important milestones and family occasions.

It does not escape my notice or fail to pain me that whether it's all four of us getting ready to get together with them or one or two of us interacting with them, it almost never happens without a discussion about graceful ways to deal with certain scenarios likely to come up. We've actually regularly rehearsed situations in the car on the way over to avoid potential minefields or ruffled feathers. My DH is a wonderful man, but more often than not he tends to be about as subtle and blunt as a post. Left to his own devices he is known to rile them up and hurt feelings without any intention to do so -- often requiring considerable explanation of what went wrong because his mind doesn't run on that track. The super fun part is, even when I am not present for those debacles, I cause them because "he never would have said that, said no, etc. if it weren't for HER". During the lead up to our wedding there was a family incident which DH and I weren't even a part of that led to my MIL taking to her bed in a power play to apply her pressure tactics to get me to come to heel. DH's grandfather told us several times that MIL was completely terrified that I would never knuckle under to her expectations. I'm happy to cooperate in any way that's reasonable for us and have determined to grit my way through the rest like I'm wearing a bulletproof suit and nothing is amiss. It breaks my heart for my daughters that they cannot simply relax and enjoy their grandparents and they realize the only way to deal with them is put on their bulletproof suits and grit through.

If I can shine a light on that dysfunction and make anyone else work on their interpersonal skills, I'm happy to try. Who wants to be the family who has to make lists and rehearse conversations on the way to Christmas Eve dinner?

 

[littleblackegg]

If you have to deal with overbearing and controlling individuals you absolutely do develop strategies. I wrote a book several pages back about what it's like to interact with DH's family. It's an art to make an attempt to have a relationship and participate in important milestones and family occasions.

It does not escape my notice or fail to pain me that whether it's all four of us getting ready to get together with them or one or two of us interacting with them, it almost never happens without a discussion about graceful ways to deal with certain scenarios likely to come up. We've actually regularly rehearsed situations in the car on the way over to avoid potential minefields or ruffled feathers. My DH is a wonderful man, but more often than not he tends to be about as subtle and blunt as a post. Left to his own devices he is known to rile them up and hurt feelings without any intention to do so -- often requiring considerable explanation of what went wrong because his mind doesn't run on that track. The super fun part is, even when I am not present for those debacles, I cause them because "he never would have said that, said no, etc. if it weren't for HER". During the lead up to our wedding there was a family incident which DH and I weren't even a part of that led to my MIL taking to her bed in a power play to apply her pressure tactics to get me to come to heel. DH's grandfather told us several times that MIL was completely terrified that I would never knuckle under to her expectations. I'm happy to cooperate in any way that's reasonable for us and have determined to grit my way through the rest like I'm wearing a bulletproof suit and nothing is amiss. It breaks my heart for my daughters that they cannot simply relax and enjoy their grandparents and they realize the only way to deal with them is put on their bulletproof suits and grit through.

If I can shine a light on that dysfunction and make anyone else work on their interpersonal skills, I'm happy to try. Who wants to be the family who has to make lists and rehearse conversations on the way to Christmas Eve dinner?

My mother was the same way. Rather than it causing me any pain or stress as a child, it taught me that I didn't have to pretend, play games or be submissive just because I was female. In the sixties and seventies, it was serious stuff for a little girl to learn. Don't worry about those bulletproof suits. They may get your kids into great schools, grad school, supportive marriages, excellent careers and a lifetime of learning and growth. I miss my mother and I love my suit!

 

[littleblackegg]

I've read this while thread and wonder where op's Dh is in all of this. Is she caught in the middle?

I have wondered that as well. She will not say. The whole thing is so odd to me in 2015. As I said before, having a child who is gay or lesbian is about as controversial as xeriscaping your lawn around here, and on both coasts. When my friend Rami (a Stanford-educated MD) came out in the 1990's, his parents became total rainbow flag-waving, PFLAG-joining, city commission meeting going zealots. They were going to make sure Rami was happy, and he knew they would do anything to support him. Now he is married (to an internist) and his mother is grandmother to a rolly-polly little girl. The have the whole package, and their son is gay. Tons of families like that around here. There are some very conservative christians in the rural areas, but even they don't accept some gloomy picture from having a gay child.