How do you handle the Holidays when...

[Nancyg56]

Nothing says, "I accept you and your boyfriend" like a crockpot.

For me nothing was better to tell me I was loved than my iron! I mean it is an iron on steroids, and if I live to be 100 it will still mean more than most gifts ever did.

One thing to remember when giving gifts is to think about the sentiment. A gift card to a restaurant is pretty generic,and can be used by anyone anywhere. A household appliance, gifted to both people signifies more than a quick trip to Kohls. It says that you not only recognize that two people are a couple, you respect that they share a home. Because it seems kind of clear that the OP is struggling when it comes to showing her son that she accepts him, his partner, and his sexual orientation, a gift that encompasses home, family and couple may be more successful than an invitation to Disney.

 

[Nancyg56]

So because he is an adult it's ok to blow off family? I am open to all kinds of re-arranging, but apparently that's not an option. Sorry, I'm just hurt and angry and don't get his behavior. And trust me, I've always said I would be flexible when they got older, but cutting family off is not what I was imagining my choice would be. Do you choose to not spend time with your parents and sibling on the holidays?

I have read this entire thread, but I still want to reply to this post. As a parent I have had to adjust to my children being adults. Adults who have a life that includes me but is not encompassed by me and my DH. I remember one Christmas many years ago when they were all "young" adults. That's a euphemism for young PITAS. I cooked all their favorites, set the table the way I always did, and spent hours getting ready for the dinner. Holy Dine and Dash! All the snide and smug comments I had made to my own DMIL about being open about Holidays I had to apologize for. One of my friends who had kids that age told me she, her DH his DB and DSIL actually decided they were cruising the following year, and leaving those young ones home.

Well, I never said a word to them. I did exactly as I had always promised and kept an open home on Holidays. It paid off, the less I ask from them, the more I see them. If I was you, and I was at one time....just getting used to my family having changing responsibilities and wanting their own traditions, I would make sure that if one of my kids needed to be away from us on a Holiday, I encouraged them to enjoy themselves, and made sure that I was available when they were.

There is much more to this story, and frankly, I'm not airing it all here. Suffice it to say he told us last year that it was not our imagination, but that he has deliberately cut us out of his life the last few years. We knew he had, but hoped it was just becoming an adult and creating his own life and there was no issues made. We did not guilt him into anything event-wise but always invited him and said we were sorry he couldn't make it when the inevitable excuse came. Once he came clean it was deliberate, yes, my heart broke. In a million pieces. Not quite back together yet either.

Yes, he has a SO and will be spending Thanksgiving, Christmas Eve and morning with the other family. We have no relationship with the SO because they do not visit us, nor are we invited there. No, we have never said an unkind word about his SO. Frankly, our interaction has been less than one minute in total. They even turned down a 2 day whirlwind paid for trip to see Osbourne Lights before they're gone in lieu of Christmas gifts. But he would take money for his student loans, thanks.

Here is where you need to take a step back and ask why you and your son have moved apart. I know that you say you are okay that your son is gay, but I doubt that you are, and I think that your son may know this. When the only one who is hurt is him, he may decide to let you have your space, but now he is protective of someone else. He may need more than you buying his partner a tie.

When I was dating my husband his mother was cold to me. Never rude, never mean. But cold. You see, I was a widow with three young children. Not good enough for her son. She never could accept me or my children. I was okay with that, but my husband, her oldest son, was not. AS teh years progressed she got more "stubborn" and her treatment was more "cold". DH finally had enough and walked as far away as he could. I told him I did not take it personally, but he said he did. Now here is where you should pay attentions: he said that if his mothers love was truly unconditional, she would realize her treatment of me was really indicative about how she felt about him. Now those words are not his. i cannot post his here. You need to think about what you are telling your son when you refer to his partner as SO, call his partners family The Other Family...things like that.

This was the first thing that popped into my head, but then I'm gay, and it's always the first thing to pop into my head whenever there's such ambiguity.

But I'm not sure it's appropriate to raise that issue explicitly without the OP being ready. If nothing else, the term "SO" is not a euphemism for same-sex partner. (We use "friend of Dorothy" when we want a euphemism. ) The inference may be correct, it may not be. While I would hope that anyone here struggling with issues around an LGBTQ child would feel comfortable enough to discuss it candidly, and will even go as far as saying it's healthy to overcome any such reluctance to discuss things bluntly, yet I don't feel this is the right place to be yanking people or their parents out of whatever closet they may be stuck in. And I especially don't like expressing such conclusions without being 100% sure of their accuracy, which we can't be.

It took me years to come out, and wasn't a process to be rushed. Parents deserve the same patience.

TO some extent yes. But sometimes they need a push. My niece and her partner recently became engaged. Exciting, Right? Wedding planning is a blast right? Nope. Turns out that her partners Mom, who is my age BTW, and loves my niece, knows that her DD and my DN bought a home together, have a life together, and are perfect for each other, cannot cope with a formalization of their relationship. Are you kidding me? Now these two young women are way nicer than me, because while I understand that this can be a difficult turn for a parent, you know giving up that fairy tale we all invent when our children are born,, ther comes a time that if you do not step out of your hiding place, you need to be pulled out.

It is crushing to a family but it is truly crushing to the child. I can't begin to tell you how impossible it is to come to terms with the knowledge that your parents do not love you unconditionally. Mine don't and I struggle to make sense of my childhood memories given the new status quo and my place in the world. I thank god for the unconditional love my husband's family provides. It makes me feel moored to something.

This happens in so many situations. My DDIL constantly has her heart broken by her own mother. I will never understand that. My DSIL has stepped so far back from his family that they do not even have his phone number. But I always have them here, get invited on their trips, and know that they are just a call away if I need them. I am so glad that you have your husbands family to fill a void that should never exist in the first place. I try to do that for the children of my heart...those people my own children chose to gift me and my DH with.

 

[WebmasterMaryJo]

She addressed the fact that her son is gay, she continues to ignore questions that ask if that is the reason her son is pulling away.

Although this is a discussion board, we can offer suggestions, but she is not obligated to answer these personal questions. There have been several posters that have offered helpful suggestions without prying and targeting the OP. Those responses are part of what makes the DIS such a great forum. Posts that badger the OP and become argumentative take away from any constructive discussion.

 

[pryncess527]

It's also occurred to me that it might be helpful to consider what your family holiday celebrations are like -- from your son's and his significant other's perspectives as best you can. I know we all struggle to spend time with DH's family for many reasons, which they are completely oblivious to despite some gentle and direct comments on our part over the years. They have rabid political views and attempt to force them on everyone, including us, at every opportunity.

OMG, if I didn't know better I'd think you also spent your Thanksgiving with my husband's grandmother & family!!! His great aunt just loves to pick a fight (with anyone -- she refused to abstain from smoking around her 3 month old great-grandson last year until her granddaughter finally gave up and left the house to protect her infant child) and she always "Greets" me with the most heinous, provoking comment you can imagine. I will refrain from sharing the greeting I got last year, it's not Dis-appropriate! Yet they are amazed when we only spend about 3 hours there. At least they are good cooks . . .

It is crushing to a family but it is truly crushing to the child. I can't begin to tell you how impossible it is to come to terms with the knowledge that your parents do not love you unconditionally. Mine don't and I struggle to make sense of my childhood memories given the new status quo and my place in the world. I thank god for the unconditional love my husband's family provides. It makes me feel moored to something.

*hugs* One of my dearest friends has struggled with acceptance from her mother over her sexuality, it breaks my heart to see how much it hurts her. I can't fathom how any parent could do that for any reason.
*Note* -- neither of the above comments are directed at patfan.

There is much more to this story, and frankly, I'm not airing it all here. Suffice it to say he told us last year that it was not our imagination, but that he has deliberately cut us out of his life the last few years. We knew he had, but hoped it was just becoming an adult and creating his own life and there was no issues made. We did not guilt him into anything event-wise but always invited him and said we were sorry he couldn't make it when the inevitable excuse came. Once he came clean it was deliberate, yes, my heart broke. In a million pieces. Not quite back together yet either.

I'm sorry. Whatever the reason for the current state of your relationship with your son, your post has provided me with some insight as to how my MIL must feel. Her relationship with my husband is complicated, and arms-length at best. It is important to me that we keep contact, so we continue to see her at least once a year at Christmas (and it's a real joy . . . see my first comment!). I do think my MIL has played her role in their rough relationship so I can not say my husband is unjustified in keeping her at arms length, but reading your posts has softened me a bit, and I'm going to make an extra effort to be welcoming and patient with her and her side of the family this year. So, I'm sorry for what you are dealing with but thank you for providing me with some outside perspective.

 

[quandrea]

I have read this entire thread, but I still want to reply to this post. As a parent I have had to adjust to my children being adults. Adults who have a life that includes me but is not encompassed by me and my DH. I remember one Christmas many years ago when they were all "young" adults. That's a euphemism for young PITAS. I cooked all their favorites, set the table the way I always did, and spent hours getting ready for the dinner. Holy Dine and Dash! All the snide and smug comments I had made to my own DMIL about being open about Holidays I had to apologize for. One of my friends who had kids that age told me she, her DH his DB and DSIL actually decided they were cruising the following year, and leaving those young ones home.

Well, I never said a word to them. I did exactly as I had always promised and kept an open home on Holidays. It paid off, the less I ask from them, the more I see them. If I was you, and I was at one time....just getting used to my family having changing responsibilities and wanting their own traditions, I would make sure that if one of my kids needed to be away from us on a Holiday, I encouraged them to enjoy themselves, and made sure that I was available when they were.





Here is where you need to take a step back and ask why you and your son have moved apart. I know that you say you are okay that your son is gay, but I doubt that you are, and I think that your son may know this. When the only one who is hurt is him, he may decide to let you have your space, but now he is protective of someone else. He may need more than you buying his partner a tie.

When I was dating my husband his mother was cold to me. Never rude, never mean. But cold. You see, I was a widow with three young children. Not good enough for her son. She never could accept me or my children. I was okay with that, but my husband, her oldest son, was not. AS teh years progressed she got more "stubborn" and her treatment was more "cold". DH finally had enough and walked as far away as he could. I told him I did not take it personally, but he said he did. Now here is where you should pay attentions: he said that if his mothers love was truly unconditional, she would realize her treatment of me was really indicative about how she felt about him. Now those words are not his. i cannot post his here. You need to think about what you are telling your son when you refer to his partner as SO, call his partners family The Other Family...things like that.





TO some extent yes. But sometimes they need a push. My niece and her partner recently became engaged. Exciting, Right? Wedding planning is a blast right? Nope. Turns out that her partners Mom, who is my age BTW, and loves my niece, knows that her DD and my DN bought a home together, have a life together, and are perfect for each other, cannot cope with a formalization of their relationship. Are you kidding me? Now these two young women are way nicer than me, because while I understand that this can be a difficult turn for a parent, you know giving up that fairy tale we all invent when our children are born,, ther comes a time that if you do not step out of your hiding place, you need to be pulled out.



This happens in so many situations. My DDIL constantly has her heart broken by her own mother. I will never understand that. My DSIL has stepped so far back from his family that they do not even have his phone number. But I always have them here, get invited on their trips, and know that they are just a call away if I need them. I am so glad that you have your husbands family to fill a void that should never exist in the first place. I try to do that for the children of my heart...those people my own children chose to gift me and my DH with.

What a lovely post. It cheered me. This thread has put my family on my mind. I was always accused of the dine and dash, even though we'd spend three or four hours with infant twins and a toddler. They got fed up with the dine and dash and cut us out. Some of the cutting out had to do with my parent's wanting me to give up my faith (the one I was raised in btw) to support my brother who had in law issues of his own he refused to navigate. I was seen as unsupportive to him. They also wanted us to lie for my brother on a huge issue. When dh and I refused, that was what made everything come crashing down. In hindsight it had been coming for a long time. Bottom line was, they never adjusted to having an adult child. With my posts, I just wanted to encourage the OP to work genuinely hard at making that transition.

I am very fortunate to have my in-laws. My MIL is an exemplary example of how to parent and I hope to take her lead.

 

[ariel71]

Although this is a discussion board, we can offer suggestions, but she is not obligated to answer these personal questions. There have been several posters that have offered helpful suggestions without prying and targeting the OP. Those responses are part of what makes the DIS such a great forum. Posts that badger the OP and become argumentative take away from any constructive discussion.

IMO, the "why", for an advice request like this, is absolutely essential for offering any meaningful suggestions. This would be a far different thread if OP's son had joined a cult, or his boyfriend encouraged drug use, or OP's husband had anger management issues, or yada yada yada. There are many reasons why OP's son could be limiting contact, and the suggestions would be different for each one.

No, she doesn't have to answer questions, but steadfastly refusing to offer any insight into the nature of the problem, including acknowledgement of her possible contribution, is also poor form and takes away from any constructive discussion just as much as any "badgering".

 

[Skywalker]

OP, if an anonymous message board can figure out your son is gay and that you are somewhat ashamed or uncomfortable about it based on just the language you use here, it makes me wonder how obvious this is in real life. Do you speak so awkwardly and evasively about the relationship with your friends or co-workers? I know the use of a pronoun seems minor but when it is so deliberate and belaboured it sends a message. Saying things like they are spending Christmas with "the other family" and only referring to him as SO seems kind of dehumanizing after a while, like he's not really a person in his own right, just something you have to hold your nose and skirt around. That is how it comes off to me, and maybe without meaning to you are sending that vibe their way too.

Having that said, you come across to me as a parent that is doing their best to stay loving and connected in the face of being thrown a curveball. I have known parents that have disowned their children for various reasons; you are not one of those parents and you deserve props for that. I believe you love and accept your son...but I hope you can sincerely show the same respect to "the SO" and also remember your son, like everyone else, is responsible for their own choices in life. It is always easier to blame "outside influences" in every situation where a loved one does something we don't like but the fact is the buck stops with your son.

You seem conflicted but with your heart in the right place, I'm sure you'll all do fine.

 

[luvsJack]

Actually, no one has "figured out" that the OP is uncomfortable or ashamed of anything, they are assuming. She could have said "SO" to keep the discussion away from how any family may or may not feel about a child being gay. She could have been trying her best to STOP anyone from automatically assuming its her fault because she doesn't accept the SO.

The fact is that on these boards if there is a problem involving a parent, a child and a spouse/girlfriend/boyfriend/SO/partner it is ALWAYS the parent's fault. ALWAYS.

 

[Nancyg56]

What a lovely post. It cheered me. This thread has put my family on my mind. I was always accused of the dine and dash, even though we'd spend three or four hours with infant twins and a toddler. They got fed up with the dine and dash and cut us out. Some of the cutting out had to do with my parent's wanting me to give up my faith (the one I was raised in btw) to support my brother who had in law issues of his own he refused to navigate. I was seen as unsupportive to him. They also wanted us to lie for my brother on a huge issue. When dh and I refused, that was what made everything come crashing down. In hindsight it had been coming for a long time. Bottom line was, they never adjusted to having an adult child. With my posts, I just wanted to encourage the OP to work genuinely hard at making that transition.

I am very fortunate to have my in-laws. My MIL is an exemplary example of how to parent and I hope to take her lead.

It is never easy. To be honest, I would have been happy with 3 to 4 hours. They literally ate and ran! They stayed long enough to make a dent int heir seats and that was it. I thought that my DH was going to have a seizure! LOL!

I am so sorry that you were placed in the situation are are in. It is not fair, and the ultimate losers are those who forced you there. To be honest, I learned a lot about how to be a parent of adults and a MIL from making sure I did none of what both of my MIL's did to me. While I loved my first husbands mother dearly, I would never do or say to my DDIL's what was said and done to me.

 

[TLSnell1981]

IMO, the "why", for an advice request like this, is absolutely essential for offering any meaningful suggestions. This would be a far different thread if OP's son had joined a cult, or his boyfriend encouraged drug use, or OP's husband had anger management issues, or yada yada yada. There are many reasons why OP's son could be limiting contact, and the suggestions would be different for each one.

Not really. IMO

 

[Nancyg56]

IMO, the "why", for an advice request like this, is absolutely essential for offering any meaningful suggestions. This would be a far different thread if OP's son had joined a cult, or his boyfriend encouraged drug use, or OP's husband had anger management issues, or yada yada yada. There are many reasons why OP's son could be limiting contact, and the suggestions would be different for each one.

No, she doesn't have to answer questions, but steadfastly refusing to offer any insight into the nature of the problem, including acknowledgement of her possible contribution, is also poor form and takes away from any constructive discussion just as much as any "badgering".

Sometimes a poster really is not looking for advice and is really not trying to share too much of the personal issues that lead to a post. They just want to talk about it, have other people tell them they are not the only ones who have the same types of experiences, and what safer place to talk but a message board.

No, if the OP was asking for advice to solve the problem that has developed between her and her son, well then gaining insight is necessary in order to try to help. The OP really did to ask, does not really want to talk about whatever caused her son to cut the ties, and so while we can all offer comments, the only universal suggestion anyone can give is to give it time, treat her son's SO the way she treats her DDIL, and start to respect that her life with her son is changing.

 

[ashley0139]

OP, if an anonymous message board can figure out your son is gay and that you are somewhat ashamed or uncomfortable about it based on just the language you use here, it makes me wonder how obvious this is in real life. Do you speak so awkwardly and evasively about the relationship with your friends or co-workers? I know the use of a pronoun seems minor but when it is so deliberate and belaboured it sends a message. Saying things like they are spending Christmas with "the other family" and only referring to him as SO seems kind of dehumanizing after a while, like he's not really a person in his own right, just something you have to hold your nose and skirt around. That is how it comes off to me, and maybe without meaning to you are sending that vibe their way too.

Having that said, you come across to me as a parent that is doing their best to stay loving and connected in the face of being thrown a curveball. I have known parents that have disowned their children for various reasons; you are not one of those parents and you deserve props for that. I believe you love and accept your son...but I hope you can sincerely show the same respect to "the SO" and also remember your son, like everyone else, is responsible for their own choices in life. It is always easier to blame "outside influences" in every situation where a loved one does something we don't like but the fact is the buck stops with your son.

You seem conflicted but with your heart in the right place, I'm sure you'll all do fine.

Not to nit pick, but I do not believe any parents deserve props for not disowning their child. That's not something to be proud of, it's something that just should be.

However, having some first hand experience with this type of situation, I do believe OP is trying. No matter the reaction in the past, I know that attempts to change are usually well received in this sort of situation. Keep trying, OP.

 

[cabanafrau]

I wasn't going to comment on this aspect, but as trivial as it is I think it might well speak to some of the underlying issues. You offered a quick Disney trip. You seem very nonplussed by the refusal of that invitation -- and the response that he would take some help with his college loans.

Is he struggling with the college loans? Would some assistance there take some financial pressure off him? Does he have a particular interest in Disney, or are you basing that on memories of fun family visits years back and assume he still feels the magic? How much consideration have you given to his perspective on this issue, or do you simply assume his interest level is the same as yours? Not to mention he has a SO to factor into the decision. Maybe this isn't a good time of year for one or both of them to travel because of their work.

I can't neglect to mention the elephant in the room. You protest about meeting someone for too long a first visit on Christmas, but yet proposed a two-day getaway? I think if you just look at that factor alone it shows you're acutely determined to have it your way. That may be part of what's propelling your son away.

I'm not pointing this out to peck away at you, I'm trying to offer you windows into other viewpoints in the hopes something sparks to lead you to a solution where you're happily spending time with your son because I know how important that is.

 

[lizzi6692]

IMO, the "why", for an advice request like this, is absolutely essential for offering any meaningful suggestions. This would be a far different thread if OP's son had joined a cult, or his boyfriend encouraged drug use, or OP's husband had anger management issues, or yada yada yada. There are many reasons why OP's son could be limiting contact, and the suggestions would be different for each one.

No, she doesn't have to answer questions, but steadfastly refusing to offer any insight into the nature of the problem, including acknowledgement of her possible contribution, is also poor form and takes away from any constructive discussion just as much as any "badgering".

You said it better than I could. She started this post by asking how people would handle this situation. Without actually knowing what the situation is, there's no way to give a real answer to that question.

 

[pryncess527]

I wasn't going to comment on this aspect, but as trivial as it is I think it might well speak to some of the underlying issues. You offered a quick Disney trip. You seem very nonplussed by the refusal of that invitation -- and the response that he would take some help with his college loans.

Yeah, since it was brought up, I wanted to add I'd have said no to the trip too -- because any trip described with the word "whirlwind" exhausts me just thinking about it. I used to be a great traveler, but the older i get (and I'm only 35) the less that's true. If your son, or his SO, aren't great travelers, then they may have also thought a "whirlwind" trip to see the lights was just to exhausting, especially on top of everything else that goes on this time of year.

 

[ariel71]

Not really. IMO

If you're suggesting that you would give the exact same advice in each of those situations, I personally don't think your advice would be very useful.

Sometimes a poster really is not looking for advice and is really not trying to share too much of the personal issues that lead to a post. They just want to talk about it, have other people tell them they are not the only ones who have the same types of experiences, and what safer place to talk but a message board.

No, if the OP was asking for advice to solve the problem that has developed between her and her son, well then gaining insight is necessary in order to try to help. The OP really did to ask, does not really want to talk about whatever caused her son to cut the ties, and so while we can all offer comments, the only universal suggestion anyone can give is to give it time, treat her son's SO the way she treats her DDIL, and start to respect that her life with her son is changing.

But even those "universal" suggestions you have above are pretty contextual now that we know her son is gay and living with his boyfriend. Reread her first few posts. She clearly was trying to garner sympathy for her plight and pin this entirely on her son, saying she has no idea why this is happening. We now know that she probably has a very good idea why this is happening and could very well have something to do with it. I do believe that there were some false pretenses and I don't think that's respectful to other posters. You're welcome to give a "there, there" to anyone who has a boo-hoo story, but when there are that many holes, I think it's a lot to ask for unquestioned sympathy.

 

[Nancyg56]

But even those "universal" suggestions you have above are pretty contextual now that we know her son is gay and living with his boyfriend. Reread her first few posts. She clearly was trying to garner sympathy for her plight and pin this entirely on her son, saying she has no idea why this is happening. We now know that she probably has a very good idea why this is happening and could very well have something to do with it. I do believe that there were some false pretenses and I don't think that's respectful to other posters. You're welcome to give a "there, there" to anyone who has a boo-hoo story, but when there are that many holes, I think it's a lot to ask for unquestioned sympathy.

Oh I know what she was doing, and not many people fell into that trap. I do think she was venting, and that is fine with me. It only took a few posts for me to believe her entire problem had nothing at all to do with her sons SO, but with her son's sexuality. Did she say it? No, she did need to. She danced around where there was no reason to dance.

Most folks called her out on it, and while she denied it, I still think she knows that something that she said or did created the rift. I know most of us said that.

I also contend that unless there are unusual circumstances, people know what the issue is. I will say that there are exceptions. My husbands sister absolutely hates me. I am in good company....she hates everyone... but I still after over 35 years, have no idea what I ever did to her. But people like her really are unusual, so I generally believe that when folks say they don't know, they mean they don't want to say. For me, the advice usually would be the same. Take a step back, look to yourself, and see what you can do to make it a little better. That usually means "be quiet, be kind, and be fair".

 

[luvsJack]

If you're suggesting that you would give the exact same advice in each of those situations, I personally don't think your advice would be very useful.



But even those "universal" suggestions you have above are pretty contextual now that we know her son is gay and living with his boyfriend. Reread her first few posts. She clearly was trying to garner sympathy for her plight and pin this entirely on her son, saying she has no idea why this is happening. We now know that she probably has a very good idea why this is happening and could very well have something to do with it. I do believe that there were some false pretenses and I don't think that's respectful to other posters. You're welcome to give a "there, there" to anyone who has a boo-hoo story, but when there are that many holes, I think it's a lot to ask for unquestioned sympathy.

Where did she say she had problems with her son's bf or her son's lifestyle? She, in fact, said that she felt it was outside influences and that those influences were NOT the bf. So actually she did say she has her suspensions of where this is coming from.

Why must it always be assumed that it is the parents?

 

[pat fan]

I wasn't going to comment on this aspect, but as trivial as it is I think it might well speak to some of the underlying issues. You offered a quick Disney trip. You seem very nonplussed by the refusal of that invitation -- and the response that he would take some help with his college loans.

Is he struggling with the college loans? Would some assistance there take some financial pressure off him? Does he have a particular interest in Disney, or are you basing that on memories of fun family visits years back and assume he still feels the magic? How much consideration have you given to his perspective on this issue, or do you simply assume his interest level is the same as yours? Not to mention he has a SO to factor into the decision. Maybe this isn't a good time of year for one or both of them to travel because of their work.

I can't neglect to mention the elephant in the room. You protest about meeting someone for too long a first visit on Christmas, but yet proposed a two-day getaway? I think if you just look at that factor alone it shows you're acutely determined to have it your way. That may be part of what's propelling your son away.

Actually, I was extremely upset that he didn't want to go see the lights. And I don't know the reason other than he said he was not interested in going on a vacation with us. fair enough, but it was not a money or time thing, he is on a two week vacation now and said he's trying to use more vacation time up between now and the first of the year. And whirlwind was fly down one day, relax in the evening, do DHS the next day, then fly home the following day. I may have replied to him in a non-plussed way, or said it that way here, but trust me, on top of the comments this summer, it hurt. A lot. And is also why I probably got more hurt than I normally would have over the no Thanksgiving time and less on Christmas. It was cumulative.

I may have misspoke about college loans, did I say college loans? It was credit card debt. And we just gave him quite a bit of money down on it this summer. He does have college loans but those are fine.

I didn't mean to imply at all the a Christmas visit was "too long" just that a big holiday like that is not my ideal first real meeting with someone! I'm not very good in social settings, have a hard time talking to people I don't know, ANYONE regardless of the situation, so I wish we knew him better, or at all really, before Christmas! And I am not determined to have anything my way. I think it would be better for everyone's Christmas day schedule to have it another day, but Christmas in shifts it is because that seems to be what will work for THEIR schedules, not mine.

 

[phorsenuf]

Actually, I was extremely upset that he didn't want to go see the lights. And I don't know the reason other than he said he was not interested in going on a vacation with us. fair enough, but it was not a money or time thing, he is on a two week vacation now and said he's trying to use more vacation time up between now and the first of the year. And whirlwind was fly down one day, relax in the evening, do DHS the next day, then fly home the following day. I may have replied to him in a non-plussed way, or said it that way here, but trust me, on top of the comments this summer, it hurt. A lot. And is also why I probably got more hurt than I normally would have over the no Thanksgiving time and less on Christmas. It was cumulative.

I may have misspoke about college loans, did I say college loans? It was credit card debt. And we just gave him quite a bit of money down on it this summer. He does have college loans but those are fine.

I didn't mean to imply at all the a Christmas visit was "too long" just that a big holiday like that is not my ideal first real meeting with someone! I'm not very good in social settings, have a hard time talking to people I don't know, ANYONE regardless of the situation, so I wish we knew him better, or at all really, before Christmas! And I am not determined to have anything my way. I think it would be better for everyone's Christmas day schedule to have it another day, but Christmas in shifts it is because that seems to be what will work for THEIR schedules, not mine.

Then set up a time beforehand to meet up with him. have lunch together, dinner, a couple of drinks or whatever. I don't understand why that does not seem to be a solution.