How do you handle the Holidays when...

[Hrhpd]

This was the first thing that popped into my head, but then I'm gay, and it's always the first thing to pop into my head whenever there's such ambiguity.

But I'm not sure it's appropriate to raise that issue explicitly without the OP being ready. If nothing else, the term "SO" is not a euphemism for same-sex partner. (We use "friend of Dorothy" when we want a euphemism. ) The inference may be correct, it may not be. While I would hope that anyone here struggling with issues around an LGBTQ child would feel comfortable enough to discuss it candidly, and will even go as far as saying it's healthy to overcome any such reluctance to discuss things bluntly, yet I don't feel this is the right place to be yanking people or their parents out of whatever closet they may be stuck in. And I especially don't like expressing such conclusions without being 100% sure of their accuracy, which we can't be.

It took me years to come out, and wasn't a process to be rushed. Parents deserve the same patience.

Wow!

We could all learn from your example of understanding, kindness and acceptance.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I don't think it much matters if the issue is that the son is gay, or trans, or changing religions, or changing politics, or whatnot---- if whatever it is, whoever the son has realized as an adult he is, is something/someone that the mother (parents?) were very opposed to or disdainful of throughout his childhood, well, that in itself is likely going to make it very hard for the grown son to feel close to his parents---and really, it should not come as a huge shock to parents if that happens. If you raise your children telling them that XYZ things in the culture are sinful, or wrong, or hateful--you take a risk that they may grow up, realize they are XYZ (or decide they are, depending if we are talking politics instead of orientation for example) and then the obvious message they have heard throughout their life is basically that you reject THEM.
That is not always easily undone or changed. Some people can move past a lifetime of comments quickly, but others need a lot of time to do so, and if the parent hasn't really changed their attitude, well, I would think more often than not that would make it even harder for the adult child to still feel close.

And I do get the impression that SOMEthing about the adult child's life really bothers the OP. And to make matters worse, she can't even accept that her son is making his own decisions and expressing his own self--she blames "outside influences" (which, yes, could well be the person her son is dating), which just shows a continued lack of truly understanding and accepting and loving the son for who HE is and what HE feels and believes.

And yet, the son must still love his parents--he is willing to make family enough of a priority that he will be there on Christmas for a few hours. He still responds to texts, etc. It does not sound like all hope is lost, nor anywhere close. But, I would hope OP could really look at the messages she is sending and has sent and take stock of the hurt that might have unintentionally been done and realize wounds need time to heel and she needs to be grateful for the time she does get, not push, and work on changing her reactions to her son and his significant other to ones that really feel comfortable to them. It'S probably not going to happen overnight, but it can get there if she tries. (so take heart OP )

 

[moniqueand2]

So slightly OT, but I do find this a strange year for present buying. I admit I have always gone a tad overboard at Christmas, but have vowed every year to cut back, and I do try! Now that both boys are bringing others, I really do need to cut back to "spread the wealth" so to speak. Just seems strange. And how the heck do you buy gifts for someone you've never met for more than 30 seconds????? Coffee? Gift card??

I'd have a talk with your kids about their gifts and stockings. I am sure they have absolutely loved your traditions thus far, but now as adults I'd have a conversation and re-evaluate the giving and likely simplify. Honestly, adults who work and have SOs do not want to open a bunch of gifts from their parents in front of said SOs. Nor do they need much anymore.

 

[quandrea]

I'd have a talk with your kids about their gifts and stockings. I am sure they have absolutely loved your traditions thus far, but now as adults I'd have a conversation and re-evaluate the giving and likely simplify. Honestly, adults who work and have SOs do not want to open a bunch of gifts from their parents in front of said SOs. Nor do they need much anymore.

This is true. I think with adult children there needs to be a continual adjusting. Just because it worked when they were kids doesn't mean it will work this year or next year. My mother kept up my stocking (until she stopped talking to me, of course). I appreciated the gesture, but in all honesty, dh and I exchange only stockings and the one I get from him is truly cherished. I never shut my mother down on the stocking front, but I had moved on from it. She hadn't. Things change year to year. It also occurred to me that my mother used to buy my kids their Christmas Eve pjs. She never asked me about this and I always had a pair for my kids from their dad and me. Such a small thing but it was stepping on my toes as an adult. I hadn't thought of it till now. I'm not in a good spot with my parents and it's because of a thousand little things that erode the relationship. Navigating the child parent relationship into adulthood is tricky. As parents our job is to love our child. We don't have to agree with that child, or understand that child, but I think we need to love that child. As my wise MIL says, "she had her go through life. This is our go and we get to choose our own paths. A parent gives life, but doesn't get to rule that life forever." My parents don't hold the same values and beliefs as I do. For that they threw me and my three kids away. Op don't be my parents.

 

[LisaR]

OP, ask yourself this:
What did you do when your other son was dating the woman who is now his wife? There was a time when you didn't know her. Every relationship has that getting to know you period. Some might be more awkward than others since every personality is different, but there had to be a time when your other son starting dating your future DIL and you didn't know much about her. How did you handle that? What did you do to make her comfortable? Did it all work out? Do you have a good relationship with her? If so, apply some of those same things with your son and his partner. If this is all about his partner not feeling welcome, you're going to have to figure out a way to fix that or risk losing your son.

 

[cabanafrau]

I don't think it much matters if the issue is that the son is gay, or trans, or changing religions, or changing politics, or whatnot---- if whatever it is, whoever the son has realized as an adult he is, is something/someone that the mother (parents?) were very opposed to or disdainful of throughout his childhood, well, that in itself is likely going to make it very hard for the grown son to feel close to his parents---and really, it should not come as a huge shock to parents if that happens. If you raise your children telling them that XYZ things in the culture are sinful, or wrong, or hateful--you take a risk that they may grow up, realize they are XYZ (or decide they are, depending if we are talking politics instead of orientation for example) and then the obvious message they have heard throughout their life is basically that you reject THEM.
That is not always easily undone or changed. Some people can move past a lifetime of comments quickly, but others need a lot of time to do so, and if the parent hasn't really changed their attitude, well, I would think more often than not that would make it even harder for the adult child to still feel close.

And I do get the impression that SOMEthing about the adult child's life really bothers the OP. And to make matters worse, she can't even accept that her son is making his own decisions and expressing his own self--she blames "outside influences" (which, yes, could well be the person her son is dating), which just shows a continued lack of truly understanding and accepting and loving the son for who HE is and what HE feels and believes.

And yet, the son must still love his parents--he is willing to make family enough of a priority that he will be there on Christmas for a few hours. He still responds to texts, etc. It does not sound like all hope is lost, nor anywhere close. But, I would hope OP could really look at the messages she is sending and has sent and take stock of the hurt that might have unintentionally been done and realize wounds need time to heel and she needs to be grateful for the time she does get, not push, and work on changing her reactions to her son and his significant other to ones that really feel comfortable to them. It'S probably not going to happen overnight, but it can get there if she tries. (so take heart OP )

If anything in this is anywhere near to being on the money OP may actually find some value in the wall of text I posted yesterday. It may help to understand how family interactions and family get togethers look from the perspective of her DS and his SO -- and how they feel participating in them.

 

[luvsJack]

Op way back in a post you said that your son said he has backed away from the family and you said it was because of outside influences or something to that affect.

Now, the natural assumption is that it is your actions or your acceptance or lack of acceptance to the SO.

Maybe the influence isn't coming from the so? Or maybe it is and is unfounded resentment toward you and your family? Or perhaps it is founded for reasons other than Christmas stockings (we do them too and I am not sure why anyone is picking that one detail).

Whichever the reason, the important thing is to make sure you do everthing possible to make this person welcome. And make sure your son know that he and his so is welcome. Treat the so no different than you would your dil or your sons.

 

[rigs32]

I normally think it's a little creepy when people look through a poster's old posts, but in this case I did. To see if she'd posted about this son before. I found a thread from 1/2/15 where she was very excited that her other son got engaged.

I have no doubt that the son being discussed in this thread can tell the difference between how his SIL is accepted versus his partner being tolerated.

 

[littleblackegg]

So slightly OT, but I do find this a strange year for present buying. I admit I have always gone a tad overboard at Christmas, but have vowed every year to cut back, and I do try! Now that both boys are bringing others, I really do need to cut back to "spread the wealth" so to speak. Just seems strange. And how the heck do you buy gifts for someone you've never met for more than 30 seconds????? Coffee? Gift card??

You made a brief but pointed comment about your son declining a "whirlwind" Disney trip to see the Osborne lights. Perhaps you were disappointed about his not wanting to take a Disney trip with you. You haven't mentioned it again, so I am not sure where you were with this planning or if it became a non issue. You also haven't mentioned your husband and his holiday expectations. As for gifts, being thoughtful and kind in your giving is what counts. Just like we all learned in kindergarten.

 

[smiths02]

This was the first thing that popped into my head, but then I'm gay, and it's always the first thing to pop into my head whenever there's such ambiguity.

But I'm not sure it's appropriate to raise that issue explicitly without the OP being ready. If nothing else, the term "SO" is not a euphemism for same-sex partner. (We use "friend of Dorothy" when we want a euphemism. ) The inference may be correct, it may not be. While I would hope that anyone here struggling with issues around an LGBTQ child would feel comfortable enough to discuss it candidly, and will even go as far as saying it's healthy to overcome any such reluctance to discuss things bluntly, yet I don't feel this is the right place to be yanking people or their parents out of whatever closet they may be stuck in. And I especially don't like expressing such conclusions without being 100% sure of their accuracy, which we can't be.

It took me years to come out, and wasn't a process to be rushed. Parents deserve the same patience.

This is a great sentiment.
Even if this is a LGBTQ issue, we don't know that it is OP who is having a problem, she could just be taking time OR it could be other family members who would be around on these holidays that are not 100% accepting.

OP it looks like there are deeper issues. Try to accept that your DS just wants to feel comfortable on the holidays. I know there will be tension this year for our family because we have always done Christmas and Thanksgiving with DH's family (about 3 hours away and his grandma is 90-too old to travel). Well, my mom moved locally so she will be coming with us. My ILs have a certain political bent and my mom is totally opposite. (The best part is neither side trusts police or schools and DH is an LEO and I work for the school ) My FB feed is insane. Anyhow, hopefully, everyone will be on their best behavior and just bite their tongue and talk about turkey, football, and parades. However, it is uncomfortable. Many families are uncomfortable, and maybe your DS just wants to be comfortable on his holiday...he doesn't want to bite his tongue or hide anything or have his "stranger" SO have to try to ingratiate himself with you.

I agree that maybe you can make more attempts outside of the holiday time.

 

[littleblackegg]

I normally think it's a little creepy when people look through a poster's old posts, but in this case I did. To see if she'd posted about this son before. I found a thread from 1/2/15 where she was very excited that her other son got engaged.

I have no doubt that the son being discussed in this thread can tell the difference between how his SIL is accepted versus his partner being tolerated.

Yep. I noticed that too. It's 2015. All kinds of relationships and families can fit. But if you push a child away with judgement and misunderstanding, man, that is a bill you will paying for decades.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

I've never quite understood the disconnect between parents wanting to raise their kids to be independent adults and then getting mad at them when they're independent adults.

To me, this is the most heartbreaking thing of having children. Soon, our job is done and our children will be on their own. Then what do we do? Not that I'm only defined as a father. But it's going to be a lot lonelier with only two at the dinner table most days.

But this is the nature of parenthood, and parents have to adjust.

 

[littleblackegg]

I don't think it much matters if the issue is that the son is gay, or trans, or changing religions, or changing politics, or whatnot---- if whatever it is, whoever the son has realized as an adult he is, is something/someone that the mother (parents?) were very opposed to or disdainful of throughout his childhood, well, that in itself is likely going to make it very hard for the grown son to feel close to his parents---and really, it should not come as a huge shock to parents if that happens. If you raise your children telling them that XYZ things in the culture are sinful, or wrong, or hateful--you take a risk that they may grow up, realize they are XYZ (or decide they are, depending if we are talking politics instead of orientation for example) and then the obvious message they have heard throughout their life is basically that you reject THEM.
That is not always easily undone or changed. Some people can move past a lifetime of comments quickly, but others need a lot of time to do so, and if the parent hasn't really changed their attitude, well, I would think more often than not that would make it even harder for the adult child to still feel close.

And I do get the impression that SOMEthing about the adult child's life really bothers the OP. And to make matters worse, she can't even accept that her son is making his own decisions and expressing his own self--she blames "outside influences" (which, yes, could well be the person her son is dating), which just shows a continued lack of truly understanding and accepting and loving the son for who HE is and what HE feels and believes.

And yet, the son must still love his parents--he is willing to make family enough of a priority that he will be there on Christmas for a few hours. He still responds to texts, etc. It does not sound like all hope is lost, nor anywhere close. But, I would hope OP could really look at the messages she is sending and has sent and take stock of the hurt that might have unintentionally been done and realize wounds need time to heel and she needs to be grateful for the time she does get, not push, and work on changing her reactions to her son and his significant other to ones that really feel comfortable to them. It'S probably not going to happen overnight, but it can get there if she tries. (so take heart OP )

Indeed. It wasn't so many years ago that an adult child could be ostracized in a family for having a spouse with a different skin tone. Or who speaks a different language. Or who has different spiritual beliefs. These things can be crushing to a family. Unconditional positive regard is always the cure. It can take a long time, but the message that someone is loved unconditionally is powerful. It transcends gender, sexuality, race, politics, religion, culture and war. It's the global panacea.

 

[gwynne]

To me, this is the most heartbreaking thing of having children. Soon, our job is done and our children will be on their own. Then what do we do? Not that I'm only defined as a father. But it's going to be a lot lonelier with only two at the dinner table most days.

But this is the nature of parenthood, and parents have to adjust.

Our kids are in their early 30's. I love our kids and grandkids, but it was always my goal to raise kids who went out on their own. Do I miss them? Sure, but I'm happy they are living their adult lives.
It's so not lonely at my dinner table. We have a smaller table now, and we sit closer together. I love, love these years with dh. We really enjoy each other's company.

 

[littleblackegg]

To me, this is the most heartbreaking thing of having children. Soon, our job is done and our children will be on their own. Then what do we do? Not that I'm only defined as a father. But it's going to be a lot lonelier with only two at the dinner table most days.

But this is the nature of parenthood, and parents have to adjust.

Poignant.

 

[HM]

To me, this is the most heartbreaking thing of having children. Soon, our job is done and our children will be on their own. Then what do we do? Not that I'm only defined as a father. But it's going to be a lot lonelier with only two at the dinner table most days.

But this is the nature of parenthood, and parents have to adjust.

I saw a preview of the new Christmas move "Love the Coopers" last night. The character Diane Keaton played was definitely dealing with the grown children/holiday get-together syndrome. And the kids with going home to be at her house too. I bet a lot of people on this thread would enjoy this movie.

 

[littleblackegg]

I'm wondering if this has anything with the OP at all. Perhaps she is trying to "fix" something between her son and his father. She hasn't mentioned her husband, his feelings, his thoughts, his plans-anything! Surely he isn't kept in a big Rubbermaid container in the garage and only presented for family festivities. My experience working with teenagers and young men who make choices that are outside the norm for their families is that their mothers often play the "referee" and are quicker to accept than fathers. Perhaps it is the father who is bitter and angry and creating an unpleasant environment for her son and his s.o. Just a speculation.

 

[cabanafrau]

To me, this is the most heartbreaking thing of having children. Soon, our job is done and our children will be on their own. Then what do we do? Not that I'm only defined as a father. But it's going to be a lot lonelier with only two at the dinner table most days.

But this is the nature of parenthood, and parents have to adjust.

True, but at the same time we get to spend more time focused on our spouse again -- I still really like him BTW, AND I get to have great times with the adult daughters we've raised that I actually like as human beings in their own right, not simply as the product of my, questionable, parenting.

 

[quandrea]

Indeed. It wasn't so many years ago that an adult child could be ostracized in a family for having a spouse with a different skin tone. Or who speaks a different language. Or who has different spiritual beliefs. These things can be crushing to a family. Unconditional positive regard is always the cure. It can take a long time, but the message that someone is loved unconditionally is powerful. It transcends gender, sexuality, race, politics, religion, culture and war. It's the global panacea.

It is crushing to a family but it is truly crushing to the child. I can't begin to tell you how impossible it is to come to terms with the knowledge that your parents do not love you unconditionally. Mine don't and I struggle to make sense of my childhood memories given the new status quo and my place in the world. I thank god for the unconditional love my husband's family provides. It makes me feel moored to something.

 

[cabanafrau]

It is crushing to a family but it is truly crushing to the child. I can't begin to tell you how impossible it is to come to terms with the knowledge that your parents do not love you unconditionally. Mine don't and I struggle to make sense of my childhood memories given the new status quo and my place in the world. I thank god for the unconditional love my husband's family provides. It makes me feel moored to something.

I cannot read that without offering a hug.

I don't know your situation, and am not prying, but want to offer you the thought that possibly your interpretation may not be the whole story. As years go by and we experience different things in our lives we sometimes get a new vista on people and events of our past, unlocking perspectives completely invisible to us previously.