How do you feel about this? Columbine Parents...

[mrsv98]

Here is an article from CNN...In it , the parents of Dylan Klebold say they don't need forgiveness, they didn't do anything wrong. They didn't realize how "sick" Dylan was until after he was dead. Furthermore, they blame the "toxic culture" in the school for what their son did. I am really torn by this, while I understand that some kids can be just "bad" despite the parents best efforts, I am offended by the parents blaming the school. Also, if I were a parent of one of the kids who died, I would be really ticked. Did they really need to come out and say this? What do you think?

Columbine killer's parents: Don't need forgiveness
Sunday, May 16, 2004 Posted: 9:49 AM EDT (1349 GMT)

NEW YORK (AP) -- In their first interview since the Columbine High School massacre, the parents of one of the killers said they feel no need be forgiven and didn't realize their son was beyond hope until after he was dead.

"Dylan (Klebold) did not do this because of the way he was raised," Susan Klebold told columnist David Brooks in Saturday's editions of The New York Times. "He did it in contradiction to the way he was raised."

Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris killed 13 people on April 20, 1999, before taking their own lives.

The couple took issue with people who say they forgive them for what happened.

"I haven't done anything for which I need forgiveness," Susan Klebold said.

They acknowledged they missed signs that their son was in trouble. Klebold and Harris were in a juvenile diversion program for breaking into a van and stealing tools and other items in January 1998.

"He was hopeless. We didn't realize it until after the end," Tom Klebold said.

"I think he suffered horribly before he died," Susan Klebold said. "For not seeing that, I will never forgive myself."

The couple said they felt under siege after the shooting and never had a chance to grieve for their son.

Tom Klebold said they hope to understand someday why the shooting happened.

"We're not qualified to sort this out. People need to understand this could have happened to them," he said.

The Klebolds said their son was set off by the "toxic culture" of the school, where athletes were worshipped and bullying was tolerated.

Jefferson County Public Schools officials have consistently denied that bullying was tolerated or that athletes received special treatment.

The Klebolds' comments was criticized late Saturday by some of the victims' parents.

"I'm horrified," Dawn Anna, whose daughter Lauren Townsend was killed at Columbine, told The Associated Press. "I wanted an apology. I wanted a contribution to help us understand why it happened, so that it would never happen again. I didn't hear it."

Brian Rohrbough, father of victim Daniel Rohrbough, said he was outraged that the Klebolds likened the day of the shootings to a natural disaster in the interview with Brooks.

"This was murder," he said. "In my opinion, what went on in their home led to Columbine."

Brooks said the Klebolds agreed to the interview after an exchange of e-mails initiated by Tom Klebold, who was angered by Brooks' April 24 column. Brooks' column did not say when and where the interview took place.

In the April 24 column, Brooks had paraphrased an article in the online publication Slate that said Harris and Klebold yearned to become the most prolific mass murders in history.

The Klebolds' attorney, Gary Lozow, told The Denver Post the Klebolds had no plans to grant any other interviews.

In a story for Sunday's editions of The Post, Lozow related the first moments after the Klebolds learned of the shooting.

They had heard the gunmen may have been part of the Trench Coat Mafia, a loose group of students, including their son, who said athletes at Columbine bullied them.

"When early word came that the Trench Coat Mafia may be involved in the shooting, Tom ran downstairs to look for Dylan's trench coat, which he couldn't find," Lozow said.

"He was afraid Dylan might be involved. So he called me and offered to go to the school in hopes of negotiating with Dylan. It wasn't accepted."

Harris' parents, Wayne and Kathy Harris, have never spoken to reporters.

After-hours phone calls to Times officials were not returned, and Brooks did not immediately respond to an e-mail request for comment.

 

[floridafam]

The Klebolds said their son was set off by the "toxic culture" of the school, where athletes were worshipped and bullying was tolerated.

Jefferson County Public Schools officials have consistently denied that bullying was tolerated or that athletes received special treatment.

BINGO!

I went to a small high school where athletes were treated like Gods. Thank God I somehow had friends in the "right" group.

Can you imagine being bullied and treated like nothing day after day?

I have a feeling nothing much has changed at Columbine or most of the other high schools in America to change the "culture" of high school. It's unfortunate.

There is no excuse for what they did.

Who has the answers? I don't know.

 

[Randi]

As tragic as the event was & is, these parents also lost their child. After the fact, it is so easy to blame the parents, but sometimes clues & signs are misread, or the child presents a separate personna to his family. I do know that bullying or whatever you want to call it, is not going to go away no matter how much school authorities try. Athletes are always going to be "special" in our culture, from school to pros. Many people who are not involved in sports, find or create something that they can excell in and go through life, happy and well-adjusted. It is the few who let the teasing & taunting get to them, who feel powerless to stop it, that could explode and do harm. The difficulty is in knowing the difference and steering the child to other activities that give him/her an outlet for their talents.

 

[floridafam]

Maybe they should have seminars for high school kids now that teach them how to respect eachother.

I think mental illness was a factor here, too. Maybe both the shooters had some form of it and just could not deal with the problems they had at school. Should their parents have seen this? Sure.

I think the whole thing was just a total breakdown-the parents, the kids, the school, the police. It might have turned out much different had one person been able to spot the clues.

I've got a while before my kids enter high school. All I can do is tell them to treat everyone with respect and demand respect for yourself. Be fair and kind. You can only do so much. I know they are both going to be influenced by things that go on at school.

 

[snoopy]

I guess I'm not understanding why anyone would have a problem with these parents. They certainly do not need our forgiveness. They do deserve our pity, as they lost their children too. And I think more importantly than our pity, they need our attention -- bullying is a very REAL problem that sadly has the potential to end up in a tragedy like Columbine. Our public schools need to take a zero tolerance approach to bullying!!

 

[Micca]

They have suffered a horror that most of us will never know. It is not for me to judge. I wouldn't know where to start trying to live
day to day in the aftermath of that tragedy.

 

[Cinderellafifi]

Yes, it is too easy to just blame the parents and shut the book. Had they known what their child was planning, or even feeling, it is likely they would have intervened. Teenagers are very good at hiding their true selves from their parents - probably all of our parents don't know about some behavior we exhibited during our teen years or crazy, illegal things we may have done.

Those parents certainly don't need our forgiveness.

 

[WDWLVR]

I had just put up a post about this and didn't see this.

I'm sorry but this angers me. Yes they too lost a child, but to show now responsibility at all .

You know I wasn't in the popular group at school either, but I had love and attention at home.

Why would it be so hard to accept the forgivenss of the parents or families of those killed by their son? I'm sure they are going through their own personal torment because of this, but their comments came off as arrogant to me. To blame it on the culture of the school is just washing their hands of responsibility. If they were so concerned about the culture of the school why weren't they doing something to change it?

 

[Divamomto3]

(Moved from where I originally replied...in the thread now titled "ignore.")

I think they owe the victims an apology and can't imagine that they have never made one.

Yes, they screwed up big time and I don't know how you could miss your children making bombs in your own garage. And maybe I'm a horrible mother, but I don't know why they didn't go through the kids rooms when they were at school. Shocking, I know, but no teenager of mine is going to have weapons, videos, drugs, etc that I don't know about. However, my heart goes out to them in some way. What a horrible thing to have to live with, knowing your son was a mass murderer. I'd be insane with grief. Everyone thinks to some degree that their child "can do no wrong" and I am sure they never pictured their son committing one of the most heinous crimes of our time.

 

[ZachnElli]

I thought their comments were rather arrogant. Yes, they lost their child too and are going through something we will never understand. But, if they want more acceptance and understanding, then they should be willing to give it too. They don't sound sorry at all. I'd be very apologetic if my child hit another's child on the playground, and it wouldn't make me feel like it was my fault, but I'd still feel bad my child did it! They come across as the parents who constantly think their child couldn't possibly have done anything wrong. I'd be ticked if I was a Columbine victim or parent of a victim. JMO.

 

[Aly]

Jefferson County Public Schools officials have consistently denied that bullying was tolerated or that athletes received special treatment.

Well of course they are going to say its not tolerated. Or that it doesnt happen. No school is going openly admit something like that. I fully believe that there was bullying, and that athletes in that school did receive special treatment. It happens here. Bullying, everyday. Athletes treated better. No one does anything about it.

I think they owe the victims an apology and can't imagine that they have never made one.

I dont think they owe anyone an apoligy. I think people oew them an apoligy for putting any kind of blame on them what-so-ever.

Yes, they screwed up big time and I don't know how you could miss your children making bombs in your own garage. And maybe I'm a horrible mother, but I don't know why they didn't go through the kids rooms when they were at school. Shocking, I know, but no teenager of mine is going to have weapons, videos, drugs, etc that I don't know about.

First, they didnt screw up. Second, it's entirely possible to over-look, or just completely not realize something is going on with your child. And third, if you dont know something is going on with your child, why on earth would you go through their room?

To blame it on the culture of the school is just washing their hands of responsibility. If they were so concerned about the culture of the school why weren't they doing something to change it?

Well what makes you they are responsible for it at all? What if they didnt know what was going on at school? You know, not all parents are pyschic.. they cant read their childrens minds. And if they try talking to them, the child can lie. Its not hard. I did it for 9 months.

Perfect example of how parents can easily be fooled:

I was a cutter, for 9 months. HUGE gashes all over my arms, legs and stomach. I hide everything, and pretended to be fine. Just fine. Wore all black, listened to dark music, dark make-up, different friends.. etc.. My parents talked to me, asked questions, and i lied. They thought i was just being a teenager...

Now, the cutting really didnt have anything to do with my parents, it had to do with the school enviroment. The bullying, and the special treatment, and the "you'll never be as good as so-and-so" attitude from the teachers.

How would that be my parents fault? Why should they take the blame for it? Its not their fault OTHER people are like that. Its not their fault i lied. Why should they apologize?

They shouldnt.

And for those of you who are regulars here, im sure you know my parents, Mocubsfan, and Leanne2255. They are great parents, and it wasnt their fault i lied to them.

Nor would it be the other parents fault for what happened during columbine.

If you want to place blame, place it on the the kids who did it. Because they didnt ask for help.

 

[snoopy]

To blame it on the culture of the school is just washing their hands of responsibility.

I disagree. I think the school failed these parents. Its well documented; these boys were ridiculed and harrassed and bullied almost constantly. We as parents should be able to trust the people we leave our children in the care of -- teachers, coaches, principals, doctors -- they have a responsibility to protect the child from this sort of harrassment. And it didn't happen at Columbine. Nor did it happen when I was in school, some 20 years ago. I wasn't one of the kids who was picked on, but I had friends who were as I always made it a point to befriend the underdog. I remember one kid in particular who was bullied the most-- he was straight off the boat from Greece in a mostly Italian/Irish American student population. I saw him recently, a chance meeting at the bank, and he touched on how those years really shaped his life and defined who he was for many years later. He had some very hard times as a result of a low self esteem brought on by years of abuse from bullies. He said his parents were completely unaware of how troubled he really was.

I just think the whole situation at Columbine is so painful and so tragic and so sad. I just can't even imagine how a parent copes with this sort of thing - both the parents of the victims as well as the parents of the killers. The grief must be so profound. Its certainly not my place to judge these people and their comments to the media.

 

[janette]

While I don't think they are to blame I don't like that they are blaming others. They obviously had very little knowledge of what was going on in their child's life. What did they do about the bullying? That I know of there were no complaints filed by them to the school. There were complaints filed by other parents who's children had received threats from their son. The police or the parents didn't act on those threats. Other parents couldn't do anything but they could have, the clues were there why else would they have immediately suspected their child's involvement? If you hear of shootings at the school even if your child wears the type of clothing described would you first call your lawyer?

I do think bullying is a bad thing, I also think it was only part of the reason and what the boys used as an excuse to do what they did. The kids killed weren't the ones picked on them, they just wanted to terrorize anyone and they did.

About the only good thing that has come out of Columbine is that more schools recognize that bullying is a problem and take it seriously. It should be taken seriously but doesn't justify the actions they took.

I'm sure their parents are also hurting, if they don't feel they have any blame than that's what they need to do for them. They shouldn't try to pass any judgements on anyone else either.

 

[WDWLVR]

Originally posted by snoopy
I disagree. I think the school failed these parents. Its well documented; these boys were ridiculed and harrassed and bullied almost constantly. We as parents should be able to trust the people we leave our children in the care of -- teachers, coaches, principals, doctors -- they have a responsibility to protect the child from this sort of harrassment. And it didn't happen at Columbine. Nor did it happen when I was in school, some 20 years ago. I wasn't one of the kids who was picked on, but I had friends who were as I always made it a point to befriend the underdog. I remember one kid in particular who was bullied the most-- he was straight off the boat from Greece in a mostly Italian/Irish American student population. I saw him recently, a chance meeting at the bank, and he touched on how those years really shaped his life and defined who he was for many years later. He had some very hard times as a result of a low self esteem brought on by years of abuse from bullies. He said his parents were completely unaware of how troubled he really was.

I don't think you can compare the two. I think at one time or another everyone has been bullied by someone at school. How they and their parents deal with it could make all the difference.

Snoopy in your example the young man was of a different culture and didn't fit it. That is your usual type of picking on that goes on in school. I had it all through grade school and high school. I was easy prey because I was plain, fat and not popular.

The two young men who killed at Columbine chose to be different. These were young men who dressed in black, called themselves "trench coat mafia", wrote papers and did videos about hurting others. It would seem to me that they could be accussed of being bullies as much as the athletes in the school. They even posted threats on a web site.

How could a parent not know this was going on. How could they be making bombs and buying guns and the parents not know what is going on. Sorry - I just don't buy that.

As I said in my previous post - I'm sure they have and will continue to go through a lot of pain. But as others have said they seem to place all the blame on others. I'm not saying they are the only ones to blame or to forgive. I think there is plenty of blame to go around, but to wash their hands of it is just not right.

I see it in so many smaller ways all around including here on the DIS. Parents who feel their children can do no wrong. Parents who would rather blame the schools, etc. when something happens.

For every parent like that thankfully there are many, many more that are involved in their kids lives. Who know how to look at the big picture and know how to give fair punishment as well as praise.

 

[Aly]

I don't think you can compare the two. I think at one time or another everyone has been bullied by someone at school.

Yeah, but the 'one-time-or-another' usually passes. These boys were picked on quite alot.

The two young men who killed at Columbine chose to be different.

Yeah, they did. But what does being different have to do with anything? Different or not, they didnt deserve to go through what they did.

How could a parent not know this was going on. How could they be making bombs and buying guns and the parents not know what is going on. Sorry - I just don't buy that.

Like i said before, its very easy to fool parents. I could hide a million different things from my parents and they'd never know.

 

[tiggersmom2]

Snoopy, I think you are right on I can not imagine the parent's grief but I certainly don't think they owe anyone an apology. It was a horrible tragedy and hurts my heart to even think of it today.

 

[C.Ann]

Originally posted by tiggersmom2
Snoopy, I think you are right on I can not imagine the parent's grief but I certainly don't think they owe anyone an apology. It was a horrible tragedy and hurts my heart to even think of it today.

---------------------

I agree.. And as for the parents not knowing what their children were doing, how many parents don't know that their children are using drugs until they're DEAD?

Getting them "help"? That's almost laughable.. Anyone who has been down that road knows full well that legitimate, theraputic help is far and few between and you can NOT "force" someone to participate in counseling if they choose not to..

Lastly, schools do NOT take bullying seriously until AFTER someone is killed.. There was an incident with one of my children years ago and the school was TOTALLY unresponsive.. Their answer was "Well kids will be kids and there is always going to be those who pick on others.." When the situation became VERY serious I approached the police and was basically told that until my child was SERIOUSLY injured and/or actually killed, their hands were tied..

The parents of these two boys were every bit as "victimized" as the people who are demanding an apology.. The only difference is that they were victimized by a school that didn't address the glaringly obvious social issues - and sadly, victimized by their own children as well..

Their boys are DEAD.. Doesn't matter how or why - dead is dead - and still the most horrendous loss that a parent can suffer..

 

[lisajl]

Parents do not know everything their children are doing, they do not owe anyone an apology.

Bullying is a very serious thing and it can definately cause kids to go over the edge.

About 2 months ago here in my hometown, there was a young man that had been bullied enough. He asked a teacher which was the quickest way out of the school and she told him.

I came home about 2:15 and saw the police tape down by the railroad tracks near my house. It seems the young man (14) walked out of school and in front of a train.

He might have thought about killing the ones that harrassed him, but we will never know.
It is very sad that this had to happen to open peoples eyes.
The principal said it is not a regular occurrence, he also denied there were any drugs in the school.
This is what we as parents are up against.

I feel horrible for anyone that has had to deal with anything like this.

Lisajl

 

[HappyMommy2]

It's a tragic story on all sides and I don't know what the answer is.
SHOULD the parents have known about the bombmaking, other weaponry, etc. right under their own noses? Probably so.

DID they know those things were present? I'm sure they didn't.
If they had known, and hadn't done anything, they would have blood on their hands. As it is I think they are probably guilty of being too-busy/naive parents, but not of the murder of all their sons' victims. I can understand why the victims' parents are looking for an apology, but I don't think the murderers' parents are morally obligated to offer one.

 

[Disney Doll]

Don't have kids, so I have no idea how I would have repsonded to my teenage son coming home wearing all black, wearing black lipstick and nail polish, etc. I can only tell you how my parents raised me.

They made it very clear when I was entering my teenage years that there would be no such thing as privacy. If they felt, for any reason, that I was doing something that would endanger myself or somene else, theywould go through my room, my purse, and anything else that they could find. They were not soft, they did not threaten. If they told oyu there was a consequence to an action or a behavior, there was a consequence. I learned early on that there were no second chances. If they said it, they meant it.

I would not have been allowed to enter my parents' home dressed entirely in black, wearing black lipstick and nailpolish(especially if I were a boy!!) without there being quite an explanation ecessary. I would not have been allowed to work for an entire weekend on a "project" in my garage or basement without my parents inquiring as to what I was doing, and requiring specific details and explanations regarding what class it was for, what my idea was, how I intended to complete the project etc. There would not have been automatic weapons parts on my bedroom bureau in full view without my parents knowledge. I'd have had plenty of explaining to do.

You know what? When I was in high school, there were cliques. There were jocks, there were the "loose" girls, there were nerds, there were druggies, there were the "rah rahs"...I could go on and on. Cliques, drugs, bullying, and meanness are not issues that have cropped up in the last 10 years in high school.

Are those parents responisble for what those boys did? You bet they are. They "missed" an awful lot . They failed their children on many levels. It's not the shcool's fault, it's not the other kids' faults, it's not the jocks' fault, it's not the bullies fault. maybe they were trying to be the "cool"parent, maybe they were trying to be their kids' friends, maybe they just didn't feel like putting in the time and effort, the amount of commitment, that it takes to raise a decent kid. But what they didn't do was parent.

And that's the biggest tragedy of all.