How do you feel about this? Columbine Parents...

[Wishing on a star]

I also have to say 'well said Disney Doll!!!'

First, you do not have normal, happy, well adjusted kids, and because of some bullying (which, unfortunately almost EVERYONE has had to deal with at some point...) they pull off something like this!!

Second, with the prior incidents with these boys, and in dealing with the police, how can their parents even begin to HIDE behind the "I didn't know...." Yeah, right!!!! Sure, kids can hide things from their parents, but I simply cannot buy the fact that these parents did not know that anything was wrong here. I say they were either grossly negligent, or blind-deaf-and dumb.... this tragedy did not suddenly come out of nowhere.

I am sorry, I do feel very bad for these parents! But, I have to agree that this is just a continuation of the complete lack of taking responsibility and lack of parenting shown by these parents.

As has been mentioned, it is not the SCHOOLS responsibility to raise our kids... It is the PARENTS responsibility... PERIOD!!!!

Let's say the school was grossly negligent and there were indeed VERY serious problems there... So what... As a parent, if my child were subject that major of a problem, I would pull them out of school, and seek the help and opportunities necessary to provide what what my child needed!!!! You bet I would. As fast as a blink of an eye!

Don't get me wrong... I really do feel bad for the parents of those two boys!!! They should be glad that the other parents are trying to be understanding and forgiving!!!!

 

[browneyes]

Originally posted by C.Ann
--------------------------

I may have missed that part, but I don't think the parents blamed the "victims" (as in the kids who were shot) but rather a school system that failed to take bullying as a serious issue..

Everyone that had loved ones that were part of Columbine were victims. From what I read of the OP's quote, the parents are blaming the school which would include everyone involved. If my child was one of the murdered victims, I would see the mother's comment as a slap in the face. I would feel the same way the parents that were quoted felt.

 

[poohandwendy]

Btw, just want to clarify, I think bullying is a real problem in schools and there should be a zero tolerance to ANY bullying.

BUT, I think a very important issue has been totally missed with the public regarding school violence, in particular the incident at Columbine. As long as people are caught up believing that Columbine was caused by 2 kids who were bullied (which has not been proven to be the truth), they miss the fact that these 2 needed psychological help (which is obviously true). They were both mentally unstable. When are we going to wake up and realize that we need to educate parents and school officials to recognize the signs and that early intervention could save other kids from being killed by their classmates who have gone off the deep end? There WERE signs, everyone missed them.

In order to prevent another Columbine, it is critical that educators and parents have the tools necessary to recognize and intervene when children are mentally at risk.

the REAL bullies in Columbine planned and executed a plot to systematically kill their fellow classmates.

 

[C.Ann]

Originally posted by browneyes
Everyone that had loved ones that were part of Columbine were victims. From what I read of the OP's quote, the parents are blaming the school which would include everyone involved. If my child was one of the murdered victims, I would see the mother's comment as a slap in the face. I would feel the same way the parents that were quoted felt.

----------------------------

I believe that a number of the parents of the shooting victims have also "blamed the school" and did in fact file lawsuits against the school..

Unless I'm reading the quotes wrong, I see nothing where the parents have said, "Your child that was shot and killed is responsible for their own death.."

 

[tiggersmom2]

Yeah, I guess that link wasn't very good What can I say, trying to DIS between patients gets kinda difficult and I guess my brain is being dyslexic (sp?) today


BTW I do think the main problem is mental illness, not bullying. NO normal teenager is going to just lose it over bullying - there was definitely an underlying mental illness in BOTH of these boys.

 

[poohandwendy]

Originally posted by tiggersmom2
Yeah, I guess that link wasn't very good What can I say, trying to DIS between patients gets kinda difficult and I guess my brain is being dyslexic (sp?) today

LOL, get back to work!!!!

 

[soccerchick]

Originally posted by Disney Doll
Don't have kids, so I have no idea how I would have repsonded to my teenage son coming home wearing all black, wearing black lipstick and nail polish, etc. ] [/B]

I teach high school students and have had many students who dressed like this. They are just trying to be different. They are still wonderful, smart, caring students. My Dh will see some of my students and make comments, but if black/green/purple hair are the worst things my kids do, I'll be very happy.

I still can't see how they (parents) missed the arsenal... A single gun or knife, sure, but those kids were armed to the hilt.

 

[snoopy]

PoohandWendy, I stand corrected -- I thought i remember that the boys at Columbine were bullied. Perhaps I am thinking of another school shooting. I don't have time to look for links, but I know many of the school shooting cases around the country, there were many warning signs that the killers sent before they commited their crimes. Some warned other students, told friends or teachers, or were visibly depressed or troubled. I strongly suspect that every one of those kids was told "smile more, and you'll make friends" or "all kids are bullied at one point or another" by some school administration member. These kids perceived from their treatment that neither the students nor the teachers gave a crap about them or their problems. They went home, stole their parent's firearms and tried to show everyone the depth of their pain, isolation, and hatred for the people who shoved them to the edge of society and then couldn't understand why they weren't happy there.

You can only beat a growling dog so many times before he tears your arm off. Thats all I am saying. I'm in no means CONDONING what these killers have done, but the teenage me can understand how it happened. As a parent, I can only pray that I'm able to recognize those signs if my two are ever pushed to the edge like that. I don't claim to be an expert, I'm just flying by the seat of my pants hoping that I do right by my kids and raise to be productive citizens as well as kind people. Regardless of what the circumstances were with the Columbine killers, I still don't think their parents owe anyone an apology. The tragedy includes them, as they lost their children too and now have not only their grief but what must be a huge amount of guilt to go along with it. I pity them, regardless of whether or not their children were bullied or the bullies.

 

[bumcat]

Can you find a link (or any source) to support this? I can't and I have searched. Snoopy mentioned that it was 'well documented'...I am asking, where?

Where are the incident reports? When did the parents talk to teacher or school officials about their children being bullied? There isn't any record that I can find of any incidences.

All I can find is that these 2 made previous threats of violence. As a matter of fact, the only bullying I can find, and I have searched and searched, came from Klebold and Harris. 2 young men who were mentally unstable and turned horribly violent.
_______________________________________________

I don't remember their name but the black family that lost their son did an interview and said their son was bullied constantly. School refuse to do anything about it. I believe the family moved to Texas. I als remember a white family, I think jewish also claiming their child was bullied - I can't remember if they lost their child - sorry it's been too long.

 

[bumcat]

One more thing - You probably wont be hearing how these two were bullied because they are gone and the families are not talking but I do believe they were bullied to no end. I do believe there was a major breakdown in communication between these two boys and their parents.
I think sometimes parents tell their kids to ignore bullies so the child eventually stops telling their parents anything. Why bother if it's going to be ignored?
I also think these parents were and still are in denial. No way can kids have massive amounts of the stuff they found and the parents were clueless? No way, I think they knew what was in their home and now feel guilty.

 

[Nancy]

I have put a lot of thought into this.

First...they are the parents...they loved their child, you love them regardless of what they did or do, how they dress etc. I don't feel they need to apologize to the families. They could say they are sorry for what they are going through just as they are feeling pain...they also lost their child. It has to be horrible to know that your child did something like that. AND I am sure they have gone through many sleepless nights wondering how it happened or blaming themselves. But that doesn't mean they need to apologize.

I have 2 daughters that are high school age...I go through their rooms all the time. They do not have computers in theor rooms, they use mine and I go in almost everyday and see what they are doing on it. As long as they live in my house they have no privacy. My kids have also never received an allowance...if they need money for something they have to ask me and I have to know what it is for.

This is probably the only thing I feel the parents did wrong, is not knowing what the kids were doing. I go through my kids drawers, I go through their papers and we talk all the time. I haven't been able to understand how they couldn't know what their sons were doing. did the kids have jobs? where did they get the money to fund all this? Wouldn't you question what your kids were doing and why they needed money all the time?


I do think that schools have to crack down on the bullys, but they can only do so much..they have to have the support of the parents and too many times parents are in denial. "oh my child would never do that" When I was a child if you got a note sent home or got in trouble in school parents never asked for the childs side at all...they believed the school and the kids got punished. It is so easy to blame the schools for not doing anything, but it comes down to discipline beginning at home.

 

[Melora]

Being a mom of 3 teenagers I have some experience here. Sorry in advance about the length of this post....

I believe it was DisneyDoll who said that when she was a teen she had no privacy. Well in our house it is the same. Of course you are allowed to be the bathroom by yourself, or change with doors closed etc etc, but the kids in this house know that their rooms are not off limits to us. Its our house.

Every so often we do a room check just to see whats going on.

We have personal experience with dealing with problems.

Examples: My oldest who is now a proud member of the Air Force, was having a very hard time as young teen (14-15). His dad was most of the problem, even encouraging him to smoke pot to relax.... Chris started hanging out with some kids who were cutting school and smoking pot. We checked his room daily for any kind of contraband brought into the house. One time he burned his blanket with a lighter..we would not have seen that if we did not search his room. My husband was so mad and worried that he might burn the house down that he removed Chris' door. And it stayed down. Harsh? No I do not think so. If he cant hide behind his door, it makes it harder for him to do stuff like that. At that point he lost his privacy because the safety of the rest of the house was in jeporady. He went to live with his dad right after that (worst mistake in the world) but when he finally came back to live with us he was different kid who was unbelievabley appreciative of how much my husband I cared about him.

My oldest daughter almost started down that road (again thanks to her dad, who fortunately moved away). One night (when she was about 14) I woke up to find that she had some friends in her room. When they heard me coming they beat it out of there. We realized that she was starting to hang out with her older brothers friends too. The next day while she was at school I read her diary (go ahead and flame away, I would do it again) and found out that her father was encouraging HER to smoke pot too and that her friends were trying "mushrooms" and her father told her they werent that bad either. Then I found that she had snuck out one afternoon while she was supposed to be at her friends house and spent the whole day with a boy alone at his house.

She was such a tight reign for the next year that I did not even let her go to the mall without us or her sister (who would tell us if anything not OK happened).

She stopped hanging with the bad crowd and has been a really super kid ever since. Her friends are great kids (slightly geeky, her term)who get together on the weekends and watch movies at each others houses instead of "partying".

To this day we occassionally do room checks but have not found anything.

There is no excuse in the world for not checking up on your teen in every way possible to keep them safe. I would not have known what was going in Sarahs life if I had not gone so far as to read her dairy. Yes kids can hide so many things, but if a parent is diligent they can undercover most of it.

I cannot imagine telling my teen that their room is theirs to do as they please and I cannot go in there. Its my job to ensure they are safe and until they are older they do not have the maturity or experience to choose wisely in some cases.

I would be a negligent parent if I did not check up on my teens at every turn. Because I have always had a very open and honest relationship with them they do not see my "prying" into their lives as anything other then concern for them.

I have just recently extended Sarahs curfew to 11 PM as she is going to 17 this week. (It was 10 PM). I now know her group of friends very well and my trust for her judegment as she gets older has grown. I still check but not as often or as deeply because the times I do check I find she has been honest.

My younger daughter (Emily, 15) has never given me cause to worry (yet ). I do check and worst I have found is a D on a French Test that she didnt show me. But we have this thing called Edline at our school where we can log onto a website and see their grades that are posted weekly so we know whats goign on there too.

I know these parents are hurting because they lost a child.. and the way it happened it terrible. But they should have known. There is no excuse for not knowing about something on that level. If that had started to happen in our house, it would have been caught. no two ways about it.

 

[Mary Ellen]

Living where I do, we've had plenty of press coverage of the interview.

In the original interview (rather than the rehashing/reactions to it), one thing that got me was Dylan's mother said that they [the parents] wouldn't move as then 'they' [the families of the vicitims??] would win. Yes, they lost a child, but so did many others - at the hand of her child. She kept saying that she was sorry she missed the signs that he was suicidal, so he'd still be alive. NO mention that possibly others might still be alive/uninjured. It was ALL about them, not about the community.

 

[poohandwendy]

Snoopy,
I hope you didn't think I was picking on your post, I really just wanted to know if there was any real proof that these 2 had a previous record of being bullied. One thing that stikes me is that the parents aren't saying "Hey, I went to the school umpteen times...they ignored my pleas for help". Most parents who have bullied kids try to do something. There doen't seem to be any record of that. That is why I asked.

As far as the 'apology' angle to this whole mess, I really don't think they should have to apologize. BUT, as a parent, I am wondering why they didn't feel the need? I mean, I cannot imagine knowing my child (regardless of why) KILLED 13 people and not feel I should offer some sort of humble condolence to the families. I am disturbed by their apparent lack of feeling any responsibility in this. If my toddler child was playing in a sand box and hit another child, I would be saying "Oh, I am so sorry' and make my child apologize.

Alot of people say that parents of bullies make excuses for their children, "not my child", somehow it feels like the same thing in this case. I cannot imagine how horrible it would be to lose muy child knowing they also caused the death of others. It would be a nightmare that had no end. I just cannot imagine not offering an apology, in hopes that it would at least bring some comfort to those who were suffering in the same way because of my child.

Again, No, they shouldn't have to...but I think it is odd that they don't feel the need. (even for their own conscious)

 

[poohandwendy]

One more thing - You probably wont be hearing how these two were bullied because they are gone and the families are not talking but I do believe they were bullied to no end.

Actually, they left behind hours and hours of video and written diaries. There doesn't seem to be anything suggesting they were bullied.

 

[tiggersmom2]

I think alot of people may be getting the facts of Columbine mixed up (myself included) with the 13yr. old in Arkansas (I think it was Arkansas) that killed two classmates because he was bullied. I know this is where my confusion came from.

 

[Jenn Lynn]

Originally posted by tiggersmom2
I think alot of people may be getting the facts of Columbine mixed up (myself included) with the 13yr. old in Arkansas (I think it was Arkansas) that killed two classmates because he was bullied. I know this is where my confusion came from.

I remember media specualtion about bullying at Columbine. I don't know if it was ever proven.

I think these days, when we hear of a school shooting, we automatically think the kid was an outsider, not popular, bullied, etc.

 

[bumcat]

Actually, they left behind hours and hours of video and written diaries. There doesn't seem to be anything suggesting they were bullied

___________________________________


I know but they don't come across as the type that would put any of it on a video either. It just wouldn't fit the image they were portraying if that makes any sense.

 

[poohandwendy]

Originally posted by bumcat
I know but they don't come across as the type that would put any of it on a video either. It just wouldn't fit the image they were portraying if that makes any sense.

Maybe that is because they were the bullies?

 

[snoopy]

PoohandWendy, no I didn't think you were picking on me. I'm glad you pointed it out. I WAS getting the killers mixed up with the boy who went on a shooting spree somewhere else -- his name was Luke, I remember that since that is my son's name also and it gave me the creeps (stupid, I know...). Anyway, that kid was bullied and I was confusing the stories I had seen about him with the two boys at Columbine. As horrible and heinous as that crime was, I understood that boy's rage on some level. Even though I wasn't picked on in school, I remember the bullies all so well. I can imagine how helpless a child must feel when he/she thinks no one at the school cares enough to make it stop.

Since that was not the case with the two boys at Columbine, I guess I am unclear on why the parents felt that the school let them down? Was there something specifically they cited that would place the blame with the school?