Homeschooling Debate

[Skatermom23]

This was not true at my DDs private school (or hers before HS) or her friends' public schools. Just not true - there was lots of socialization!

Socialization sure is different in school than what I remember from the relic days. The kids have assigned seats from the bus ride to lunch tables and in the classroom. Even work groups are assigned by the teachers to balance the smart with the not so smart. The kids aren't allowed to hang out by the lockers before school starts to prevent any "situations." Many days they have quiet lunches because the cafeteria staff is stressed. Perhaps this is just junior high and I am not bashing it, just stating the facts.

 

[auntpolly]

Socialization sure is different in school than what I remember from the relic days. The kids have assigned seats from the bus ride to lunch tables and in the classroom. Even work groups are assigned by the teachers to balance the smart with the not so smart. The kids aren't allowed to hang out by the lockers before school starts to prevent any "situations." Many days they have quiet lunches because the cafeteria staff is stressed. Perhaps this is just junior high and I am not bashing it, just stating the facts.

This just isn't the case in the schools around here - sorry if it is for you.

 

[Brier Rose]

This just isn't the case in the schools around here - sorry if it is for you.

Not to be nitpicking, but could you please give some examples of all of this time available during the school day for socializing?

I mean with 7 hours or so of class time, lunch time, changing classes, etc.. just when does it take place?

 

[JennyMominRI]

I am doing some reasearch on this topic for my MS. Could you please give me the source for this statistic?

Thanks

pinnie

Pinnie.I used to have the link saved,but I can't find it now...I had an article from the Wall St Journal and one from the Boston Glode that mentioned it... I'll keep looking for a link for you though

 

[auntpolly]

Not to be nitpicking, but could you please give some examples of all of this time available during the school day for socializing?

I mean with 7 hours or so of class time, lunch time, changing classes, etc.. just when does it take place?

There are so many chances, depending on the year!!!!!!!!!! Especially in class! They don't sit there with their hands folded on their desks all those hours a day. I would say that DD's best friends were made in the classroom, not at recess. She'd be working on some group project or putting on a play or something like that and find a soul mate that loved the same books she loved or the same subjects. There were lots of chances at DD's schools, anyhow.

 

[JennyMominRI]

I understand, but I used the Korean kids to show that what you have to do to get to a top school is often - debatebly - of value.

There are some kids that are just meant for Yale. You saw it when they were in 1st grade. They'd have gone there if they'd gone anywhere to school. It's the one's who are on some kind of "program for success" that their parents have dreamed up for them to get them into Yale (whether it be a home school parent or a PS parent) are the ones that I worry about.

I don't see any of my kids at Ivy League schools... In fact only 2 of the 4 I see wanting to go to college..The 3rd one is Iffy and the 4th ,I really don't think will want to go.I hope I can change his mind...He's a computer kid,and I hope I can convince him that he should study them in college..That said,not all kids are cut out for college and I don't see it as a homeschool failing if a child doesn't go

 

[JennyMominRI]

This just isn't the case in the schools around here - sorry if it is for you.

My kids have silent bus rides,but I think that's just that particular bus drivers rule

 

[gina2000]

The socialization issues I am referring to are worked on in a classroom situation. Children need to learn how to respect others' opinions and accept that they are not always first or best. Teachers are skilled in teaching children how to interact with each other. That dynamic is not "taught" on a soccer field, at lunch, near a locker etc., etc. It is practiced there. My only experiece with homeschooled children showed a lack of understanding of that dynamic. In one case, it led to physical aggression. Would that have happened if the child had been enrolled in a classroom setting? Most likely, yes, but I feel that the teacher and others would have worked to enable the child to master his emotions and curb his need to have the last word. Unfortunately, the mother did not understand the dynamic (he never exhibited it in front of her) and didn't realize what was occurring when she wasn't around. It's led to some pretty aggressive measures being taken to try to teach the child social interaction. And it seems pretty late in the game. Her older child has also had some socialization issues which have taken a completely different turn. The child is harming herself. I feel for everyone involved. The mother is a loving, caring individual. I place no fault on her goals but I see a lack in her skills that has caused problems which may have been addressed by various teachers earlier on.

Do I judge other children who are homeschooled? Certainly not. I take each person at face value. I can only comment on what I have seen and how it has affected my child's community of friends.

 

[auntpolly]

My kids have silent bus rides,but I think that's just that particular bus drivers rule

Personally,from what I've seen of buses, I'd have silent bus rides if I was a bus driver too!!!!!!!!

 

[auntpolly]

I don't see any of my kids at Ivy League schools... In fact only 2 of the 4 I see wanting to go to college..The 3rd one is Iffy and the 4th ,I really don't think will want to go.I hope I can change his mind...He's a computer kid,and I hope I can convince him that he should study them in college..That said,not all kids are cut out for college and I don't see it as a homeschool failing if a child doesn't go

Jenny, none of my comments are really directed at you. I believe from what you've told us you are making the right choice for your family.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Jenny, none of my comments are really directed at you. I believe from what you've told us you are making the right choice for your family.

I know Just jumping off your post
I'm no longer a homeschooler anyway
My last 2 go to school in 4 weeks. DD went to PS through 2nd grade..DS has never been to public school...He did take classes on Judaism with other kids for a year,so he does have some classroom experience

 

[Brier Rose]

Sorry, but I just don't see that as the case in most schools.

Talking in class! Don't think so. After a student is finished with their work they are supposed to sit quietly or read a book.

Most schools here have gone to quiet lunches...meaning no talking during lunch.

At my little brother's school..(yes, I have a 15 year old brother..long story), the boys and girls are even separated on the school busses.

Recess has even been done away with for all but K5-2nd grade.

I still just can't see how bits and pieces of conversations at little moments in the day equate such a superior social experience to any a homeschooled child could possibly have.

I really don't see how they could or should for that matter be doing that much talking during class.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Sorry, but I just don't see that as the case in most schools.

Talking in class! Don't think so. After a student is finished with their work they are supposed to sit quietly or read a book.

Most schools here have gone to quiet lunches...meaning no talking during lunch.

At my little brother's school..(yes, I have a 15 year old brother..long story), the boys and girls are even separated on the school busses.

Recess has even been done away with for all but K5-2nd grade.

I still just can't see how bits and pieces of conversations at little moments in the day equate such a superior social experience to any a homeschooled child could possibly have.

I really don't see how they could or should for that matter be doing that much talking during class.

When I was in school teachers were always saying "We aren't here to socialize. We are here to learn."

 

[auntpolly]

Sorry, but I just don't see that as the case in most schools.

Talking in class! Don't think so. After a student is finished with their work they are supposed to sit quietly or read a book.

Most schools here have gone to quiet lunches...meaning no talking during lunch.

At my little brother's school..(yes, I have a 15 year old brother..long story), the boys and girls are even separated on the school busses.

Recess has even been done away with for all but K5-2nd grade.

I still just can't see how bits and pieces of conversations at little moments in the day equate such a superior social experience to any a homeschooled child could possibly have.

I really don't see how they could or should for that matter be doing that much talking during class.

Well, those conditions that you describe surely do sound more like prison that school - and I promise you the schools here aren't like that - but if they are for you, then you do what you have to do.

Believe me, there was plenty of conversation at all the schools DD went to, and lots of time to get to know kids, teachers, lunch ladies, and other parents that helped out in the schools.

Education is supposed to be the sharing of ideas - sorry if it isn't that way in your area.

 

[Brier Rose]

The socialization issues I am referring to are worked on in a classroom situation. Children need to learn how to respect others' opinions and accept that they are not always first or best.


If the only place a child is able to learn this is at school, then obviously the parent is not doing a very good job!

I could see how it could be more of a problem with an only child, but ANY child with a sibling has to learn and practice this. Not just during a 7 hour school day, but 24/7.

 

[Brier Rose]

When I was in school teachers were always saying "We aren't here to socialize. We are here to learn."

I remember hearing that EXACT same thing!

 

[auntpolly]

When I was in school teachers were always saying "We aren't here to socialize. We are here to learn."

Well of course they said that!!!
They are compelled to say that - like parents are compelled to say, "you'll put your eye out" or "If you keep making that face it is going to freeze that way."

 

[auntpolly]

If the only place a child is able to learn this is at school, then obviously the parent is not doing a very good job!

I could see how it could be more of a problem with an only child, but ANY child with a sibling has to learn and practice this. Not just during a 7 hour school day, but 24/7.

of course you are right - I just didn't feel that I had the right to be that controlling of the relationships my DD could drift toward or feel would be important.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Well of course they said that!!!
They are compelled to say that - like parents are compelled to say, "you'll put your eye out" or "If you keep making that face it is going to freeze that way."

OT,but I was watching Trading Spouses last night( A show that like to have on the WORST examples of Homeschooling ever) and one of the kids had a fake I..She shot her eye out...she even said it ,a Christmas Story Style,during the show.
That Jean Shepard ,the narrator of A Christmas Story, on the COP at WDW
Totally OT,Sorry

 

[Puffy2]

Originally Posted by tiff211
I am curious though, how does college look at home schooling? Is it harder to get expected to certain colleges especially since they are looking at so much more than academics now?

I've been researching schools in Georgia for requirements for homeschoolers (I have one starting 8th grade and we want to be prepared).

Most of the big schools (state, public schools) require either an extensive portfolio with curriculum detailed, outlines of courses, books used, examples, extra activities, etc....
OR up to seven SAT II subject tests in addition to the SAT. These schools tend to to require SAT scores to be higher than the "minimum" - instead requireing that the homeschoolers scores be in line with the "average" admission scores.

Smaller private schools require an explaination of your curriculum, transcript (which we can make ourselves), SAT, and 3 SAT II tests, plus an interview. The private schools (Emory, Agnes Scott and the like - these are very competitive schools) have indicated that they like homeschoolers because more often than not they are able to think for themselves and have broader experiences.

All schools put more emphasis on interviews, essays, SAT scores, awards, accomplishments rather than GPA.

Just a side note for some of you homeschoolers, one school in particular indicated that they prefer SECULAR curriculum over religious based curriculum for your text books used in homeschooling. Something to think about. And , by the way, you can get loads of mainstream curriculum from Ebay.