Ellester
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*** Homeschool List ***
- Thread starter TNKBELL
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AuroraBeauty
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Ahh, the topic of socialization. I'm never clear as to why this is such a polarizing thing. It's obvious that many people who feel the need to criticize or question the HS parent/community doesn't understand what socialization is and how it affects us throughout our lives.
From a Social Behavior perspective, socialization is a learning process that begins shortly after birth. Early childhood is the period of the most intense and the most crucial socialization.
This is what is taught in most colleges and universities around the country as a basic premise. People are continually socialized throughout life. We see it here on the DIS when someone comes in and engages in behavior that is inconsistent with what the moderators have set up -- further proof that people can can be socialized (or ostracized) later in life. Inmates area socialized to the norm of the prison, regardless of age. That doesn't mean their prior socialization knowledge is wrong, it just means that it is inconsistent with their surroundings.
When we go to WDW we are all socialized into the Magical World of Disney and what is the norm there -- waiting in line, being patient, speaking to strangers we may not normally thing of talking to.
Interestingly, none of this is learned while attending a public school. If we do what is taught in public school, it would be as the OP stated -- we'd all stand/sit around being quiet. We wouldn't talk to people who were older/younger, some people would be overtly rude simply due to age/race/size/shape/gender of others.
Nowhere else but in public school are we segregated by age (and sometimes ability -- remedial/gifted/special ed). Public school is about conformity to a subjective norm that even varies from school to school within ones own community. In addition, in many schools the subjective norms are very different than those in ones own household set by the child's parents. How can an 8-year old learn how to be a civil teenager when they have limited, if any, interaction with one? Oh, that's right! The Parents!! (sarcasm added)
Honestly, how can we expect anyone who is subject to living in a bubble to function outside that bubble? As parents we sometimes send mixed messages to our children, but work to try and be more consistent. When sending our kids out somewhere you are not able to always realign that inconsistency b/c you aren't willing to bend to the school/sport group/camp subjective norm.
Anyone who is forced into any type of structured social norm may have difficulties dealing with the reality of a multi-cultural, multi-religious, fuzzy-gendered society. If you live in NYC your norms may be quite different than those of a person living in Topeka. But that doesn't make one socialized and one not -- it makes us different. And many of us find different can be a good thing.
So, when faced with this question of how will our HS children be socialized the answer is not to get defensive and tear down kids going to public school (or their parents). Just because that is done to us as HS parents doesn't mean we have to follow that line of behavior. Rather, put the question back in their court and let them know that you have a daily curriculum about how to be a good citizen, free-thinker, problem solver and social person. Then ask, when their children are taught socialization at their school -- 4th period? before lunch?.
Interestingly, most of our country's Founding Fathers were educated at home until they went to a preparatory school in their early teens. Hmmm! I seriously doubt they were unsocialized until they arrived at the school.
Well, that's my $6.84 cents worth of babble. Keep the dialogue going. But take the high ground and don't get sucked into the negativity.
Best Wishes always
From a Social Behavior perspective, socialization is a learning process that begins shortly after birth. Early childhood is the period of the most intense and the most crucial socialization.
This is what is taught in most colleges and universities around the country as a basic premise. People are continually socialized throughout life. We see it here on the DIS when someone comes in and engages in behavior that is inconsistent with what the moderators have set up -- further proof that people can can be socialized (or ostracized) later in life. Inmates area socialized to the norm of the prison, regardless of age. That doesn't mean their prior socialization knowledge is wrong, it just means that it is inconsistent with their surroundings.
When we go to WDW we are all socialized into the Magical World of Disney and what is the norm there -- waiting in line, being patient, speaking to strangers we may not normally thing of talking to.
Interestingly, none of this is learned while attending a public school. If we do what is taught in public school, it would be as the OP stated -- we'd all stand/sit around being quiet. We wouldn't talk to people who were older/younger, some people would be overtly rude simply due to age/race/size/shape/gender of others.
Nowhere else but in public school are we segregated by age (and sometimes ability -- remedial/gifted/special ed). Public school is about conformity to a subjective norm that even varies from school to school within ones own community. In addition, in many schools the subjective norms are very different than those in ones own household set by the child's parents. How can an 8-year old learn how to be a civil teenager when they have limited, if any, interaction with one? Oh, that's right! The Parents!! (sarcasm added)
Honestly, how can we expect anyone who is subject to living in a bubble to function outside that bubble? As parents we sometimes send mixed messages to our children, but work to try and be more consistent. When sending our kids out somewhere you are not able to always realign that inconsistency b/c you aren't willing to bend to the school/sport group/camp subjective norm.
Anyone who is forced into any type of structured social norm may have difficulties dealing with the reality of a multi-cultural, multi-religious, fuzzy-gendered society. If you live in NYC your norms may be quite different than those of a person living in Topeka. But that doesn't make one socialized and one not -- it makes us different. And many of us find different can be a good thing.
So, when faced with this question of how will our HS children be socialized the answer is not to get defensive and tear down kids going to public school (or their parents). Just because that is done to us as HS parents doesn't mean we have to follow that line of behavior. Rather, put the question back in their court and let them know that you have a daily curriculum about how to be a good citizen, free-thinker, problem solver and social person. Then ask, when their children are taught socialization at their school -- 4th period? before lunch?.
Interestingly, most of our country's Founding Fathers were educated at home until they went to a preparatory school in their early teens. Hmmm! I seriously doubt they were unsocialized until they arrived at the school.
Well, that's my $6.84 cents worth of babble. Keep the dialogue going. But take the high ground and don't get sucked into the negativity.
Best Wishes always
skoi
DIS Veteran
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AuroraBeauty:
Of course everything you say about socialization is spot on, but as you well know, it's not what non-hs people mean when they ask about socialization. They mean playing with other kids at recess, at lunch, and when they get older, going to school sponsored dances, football games, etc. It has nothing to do with learning social norms. And the criticism filters down to the brick and mortar schooled kids, whether they go to public, private, etc school.
Oldest dd's best friend goes to a big, urban Catholic high school and is always joking with dd about how she'll never get a boyfriend, etc because she's homeschooled. (Of course she also told dd the reason she (dd) won't wear a bikini is because she's homeschooled- go figure). Now dd doesn't care about having a boyfriend at almost 14, she has other interests and figures she'll start looking in college when she's thinking about getting married.
But that's an idea she developed on her own, without prompting from us, church, other family, etc.
Our priest is the same way. He always complains about what his kids are being taught in school, the environment in the schools here, etc but won't homeschool them because he's worried about socialization. Obviously my kids aren't socially delayed, weirdos who shove berries up their nose (or maybe they are, I don't watch them every minute). Part of it is cultural, he's an immigrant from the former Soviet Union, and I think growing up in the state schools of such a rigid system has really set some of his ideas.
And then there's the lamest "socialization" cliche- kids who are homeschooled aren't "forced" (and I've heard that term used) to deal with people of other races, religions, so they won't be prepared for our multi-cultural society. We're middling middle class, Caucasian, Russian Orthodox Christians. I know African American families, Muslim families, Wiccan families, Evangelical families, etc who homeschool. With the popularity of cyberschooling there's a lot more diversity than there used to be, at least in our city. We live on a block where many of the neighbors are immigrants, or people of color. Meanwhile, there are school districts not far from us where the population of the school is 90%+ Caucasian and upper middle class. So my kids easily move between age, religious, and ethnic groups without a bat of an eye.
Done ranting.
(Edited to add: Since we're Eastern Orthodox- our priests are allowed to get married and have kids, so it's not like something hinky is going on with him having kids. Many people in the US hear priest with kids and freak out- What?????How did you priest get kids????)
Of course everything you say about socialization is spot on, but as you well know, it's not what non-hs people mean when they ask about socialization. They mean playing with other kids at recess, at lunch, and when they get older, going to school sponsored dances, football games, etc. It has nothing to do with learning social norms. And the criticism filters down to the brick and mortar schooled kids, whether they go to public, private, etc school.
Oldest dd's best friend goes to a big, urban Catholic high school and is always joking with dd about how she'll never get a boyfriend, etc because she's homeschooled. (Of course she also told dd the reason she (dd) won't wear a bikini is because she's homeschooled- go figure). Now dd doesn't care about having a boyfriend at almost 14, she has other interests and figures she'll start looking in college when she's thinking about getting married.
But that's an idea she developed on her own, without prompting from us, church, other family, etc.Our priest is the same way. He always complains about what his kids are being taught in school, the environment in the schools here, etc but won't homeschool them because he's worried about socialization. Obviously my kids aren't socially delayed, weirdos who shove berries up their nose (or maybe they are, I don't watch them every minute). Part of it is cultural, he's an immigrant from the former Soviet Union, and I think growing up in the state schools of such a rigid system has really set some of his ideas.
And then there's the lamest "socialization" cliche- kids who are homeschooled aren't "forced" (and I've heard that term used) to deal with people of other races, religions, so they won't be prepared for our multi-cultural society. We're middling middle class, Caucasian, Russian Orthodox Christians. I know African American families, Muslim families, Wiccan families, Evangelical families, etc who homeschool. With the popularity of cyberschooling there's a lot more diversity than there used to be, at least in our city. We live on a block where many of the neighbors are immigrants, or people of color. Meanwhile, there are school districts not far from us where the population of the school is 90%+ Caucasian and upper middle class. So my kids easily move between age, religious, and ethnic groups without a bat of an eye.
Done ranting.
(Edited to add: Since we're Eastern Orthodox- our priests are allowed to get married and have kids, so it's not like something hinky is going on with him having kids. Many people in the US hear priest with kids and freak out- What?????How did you priest get kids????)
meandtheguys2
<font color=red>Did not need to resort to hissy fi
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The weird thing is that oftentimes when I ask people asking about "socialization" where they learned the good qualities in their lives, the answer is parents. And when I ask about their school social experiences about 70% had big issues and admit to being unhappy much of the time they were in school.
trivial
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184 pages, yikes. Forgive me if it's come up before.
My wife plan on homeschooling our kids for their first school-aged years (at a minimum). I was reading a bit about homeschooling last night, and came across research that said children generally aren't prepared for formal schooling until they're 8-10 years old. I take that with a grain of salt, but has anyone else heard that before, and has anyone seen evidence in support or against that?
My wife plan on homeschooling our kids for their first school-aged years (at a minimum). I was reading a bit about homeschooling last night, and came across research that said children generally aren't prepared for formal schooling until they're 8-10 years old. I take that with a grain of salt, but has anyone else heard that before, and has anyone seen evidence in support or against that?
disneymom3
<font color=green> I think I could adjust!! <br><f
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About the priest thing! At first I did a double take then figured you were Episcopalian and then read the Eastern Orthodox part. You are right, I think most people automatically jump to Catholic though. We did have a priest who used to serve summers in our Catholic church that had kids. He had been widowed and went to the seminary later in life.Michelle--your point brings up my biggest vent. People complaining about mean kids, etc and yet anti-homeschoolers say that we need to teach kids how to deal with this crap because that is the real world. I have to say that in my adult life I have never been forced to spend 6 hours a day with someone who called me names and threatened me. Not only that but as an adult I have a lot better coping skills than I did when I was six and I know that it is ILLEGAL for someone to threaten me! If my boss was that bad, I would quit!!
There is a book by Raymond Moore called Better Late Than Early that speaks to this point very well. If you look at Finland which has the highest literacy rates in the world, their children do not attend school until the age of 7 and parents are discouraged from working on academics at home. Personally, my kids take it pretty easy with their schooling in their younger years and I base a lot on their interest and attention span. 'Course, I was just told my 8 year old was more active than most boys his age. Oh well. Probably because he is not used to sitting quietly for hours at a time. I don't view that as a bad thing and in all the classes he is in no one complains about him. (And I have asked.) Good luck to you and your wife!
skoi
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There is a book by Raymond Moore called Better Late Than Early that speaks to this point very well. If you look at Finland which has the highest literacy rates in the world, their children do not attend school until the age of 7 and parents are discouraged from working on academics at home. Personally, my kids take it pretty easy with their schooling in their younger years and I base a lot on their interest and attention span. 'Course, I was just told my 8 year old was more active than most boys his age. Oh well. Probably because he is not used to sitting quietly for hours at a time. I don't view that as a bad thing and in all the classes he is in no one complains about him. (And I have asked.) Good luck to you and your wife!
I forgot Episcopalians had priests. But yeah, people think it's really strange that our priest has a wife and kids. Little tiny kids. It's really funny to see him carrying his youngest dressed in a long, black, traditional cassock.
Also agree with the Raymond Moore recommendation. There's also non-homeschooling advocate David Elkind who wrote The Hurried Child. I was going to point out the school age in Europe as being later, also I think, Japan. There's a lot of talk and a few studies about how boys have great difficulty in early schooling because they don't have the same level of brain development as girls at that age, but catch up later. Michael Gurian wrote two interesting books about brain biology and development- The Wonder of Girls and The Wonder of Boys.
Julie
meandtheguys2
<font color=red>Did not need to resort to hissy fi
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I think you see the evidence of this all of the time in the schools. Kids who are not developmentally ready to read being diagnosed with disabilities rather than just not being ready. My nephew was like this, and we really thought he was doomed! They were the first homeschoolers we'd ever heard of, and I was horrid.
Crow kind of tastes like chicken...FF to my youngest. He could decode words, but that was it until this year. He is 8, and went from a 1.5 grade level in reading to reading whatever he wants. Whether this is the encyclopedia, dad's fishing mags., or the 5th grade American History book. He just wasn't ready before this time.
I don't want to bring anyone down...but I have a 15 yr old ds who goes to the local high school and I homeschool my 11 yr old dd. The whole socialization issue is striking really close to home right now. Yesterday I took my 15 yr old ds to a friends funeral. She was 14 and she took her own life because of the bullying and the rumors other girl were starting about her that weren't true. They were destroying her reputation all because they were jealous of her. If that is the socialization going on in the public schools, I don't think I ever want my daughters going back. Sorry if this brought anyone down, I guess I just need to vent.
Tracy
Tracy
meandtheguys2
<font color=red>Did not need to resort to hissy fi
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Tracy, I'm so sorry. Your poor son, and that poor family.
DawnM
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Oh, I am so sorry. That is horrible and it makes me so sad every time I hear thigns like this. I was a school counselor at a high school for many years and it is just so heartbreaking.
Praying for all involved and your decisions.
Dawn
Praying for all involved and your decisions.
Dawn
wvdislover
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If I had left my DD10 in school, that could have been her. She was talking about killing herself when she was only 8 years old, mainly b/c the kids in school were calling her names and picking on her, and the teacher "couldn't figure out how to make it stop." Her self-esteem has been pretty low, until we pulled her out of school a couple of weeks ago. She is a much happier little girl now. So, I should leave her in school so she can get her socialization?
I don't think so. Sorry for venting. Tracy, our prayers are with your family and your son's friend's family. So, so sad. 
Eeyore's Tiara
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luv2bnwdw, I'm so sorry to hear about your ds friend. It can be horribly rough in school. And what is the saddest is that the young people with the sweetest personality and the biggest hearts are the ones that are getting picked on and they can't deal with it. Why on earth would you want someone with a loving personality to toughen up and learn to deal with it? That kind of defeats the purpose of who they were meant to be. I was shy and sensitive in school and it didn't toughen me up, it just made me want to be more invisible.
I have to admit sometimes I cringe when I tell people I homeschool my children. Don't get me wrong I absolutely love homeschooling my children and the freedom it brings. But I don't like the naysayers who predict doom and gloom for my children.
My middle daughter hated school because she always finished before everyone else and was made to sit and wait for everyone else to catch up to her. She was made to feel bad for getting done first. She became very depressed and talked about hurting herself and she was only in 2nd grade.
I went back and forth on whether to homeschool my kids, I had homeschooling moms telling me I should, but I didn't feel "qualified" enough to do it. Then one of my hs friends said to me, "Do you love your children?" Of course I said yes and she said, "Then you can do nothing worse than what is happening to them right now."
Wow.
The final straw was a conference we had for our oldest daughter with her teachers. We couldn't communicate with one of her teachers. She told me my daughter was stupid to my face.
I can only imagine what was said to my daughter behind my back. I took my daughter to Sylvan to have her tested and it was determined that the school had not given her the building blocks she needed to understand the work she was being given. There was nothing wrong with her. The school was livid that I took her to an outside testing facility and they pulled her and put her into remedial classes.
What's really bad is that before starting school, my daughter loved to write stories, read, and learn things. By the 4th grade she had stopped reading, had given up even trying at math, and told me she was too stupid to do anything else.
This fall will be the fourth year of our homeschooling. My 2 oldest will be in 6th and 8th grade. Since I have been hschooling, my children receive frequent compliments where ever we go on their behaviour and manners. My oldest daughter is now reading again and everything she can get her hands on. She's even reading my books, which is frustrating when I'm trying to get any reading done, but I can't be too mad because she's reading!
She is in to science, reluctantly does math because science requires it, and has produced her own short movies which are very hilarious and well done. I can see an endless amount of possibilities for her future and the best part is, that now, so can she....
I apologize for the length of this
I have to admit sometimes I cringe when I tell people I homeschool my children. Don't get me wrong I absolutely love homeschooling my children and the freedom it brings. But I don't like the naysayers who predict doom and gloom for my children.
My middle daughter hated school because she always finished before everyone else and was made to sit and wait for everyone else to catch up to her. She was made to feel bad for getting done first. She became very depressed and talked about hurting herself and she was only in 2nd grade.
I went back and forth on whether to homeschool my kids, I had homeschooling moms telling me I should, but I didn't feel "qualified" enough to do it. Then one of my hs friends said to me, "Do you love your children?" Of course I said yes and she said, "Then you can do nothing worse than what is happening to them right now."
Wow. The final straw was a conference we had for our oldest daughter with her teachers. We couldn't communicate with one of her teachers. She told me my daughter was stupid to my face.
I can only imagine what was said to my daughter behind my back. I took my daughter to Sylvan to have her tested and it was determined that the school had not given her the building blocks she needed to understand the work she was being given. There was nothing wrong with her. The school was livid that I took her to an outside testing facility and they pulled her and put her into remedial classes. What's really bad is that before starting school, my daughter loved to write stories, read, and learn things. By the 4th grade she had stopped reading, had given up even trying at math, and told me she was too stupid to do anything else.
This fall will be the fourth year of our homeschooling. My 2 oldest will be in 6th and 8th grade. Since I have been hschooling, my children receive frequent compliments where ever we go on their behaviour and manners. My oldest daughter is now reading again and everything she can get her hands on. She's even reading my books, which is frustrating when I'm trying to get any reading done, but I can't be too mad because she's reading!
She is in to science, reluctantly does math because science requires it, and has produced her own short movies which are very hilarious and well done. I can see an endless amount of possibilities for her future and the best part is, that now, so can she....
I apologize for the length of this
All7OfUs
<font color=darkorchid>We too are so very NOT into
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Hi, I'm new to this thread. I was excited to see one for those who love all things Disney AND homeschooling 
We've homeschooled all 5 of our kids from day one, (yes, they are always learning- even as babies) and believe that homeschooling is a lifestyle, and isn't only about academics. We live and work overseas, and homeschooling is always a challenge in that environment. It'll be fun to get a little encouragement along the way from reading here.
We've homeschooled all 5 of our kids from day one, (yes, they are always learning- even as babies) and believe that homeschooling is a lifestyle, and isn't only about academics. We live and work overseas, and homeschooling is always a challenge in that environment. It'll be fun to get a little encouragement along the way from reading here.
DawnM
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I have friends living there right now with 4 kids and homeschooling 3 of them (or maybe it is down to 2 now? There oldest goes to Faith Academy), anyway, I am an MK and grew up overseas.
Welcome.
Dawn
Welcome.
Dawn
Hi, I'm new to this thread. I was excited to see one for those who love all things Disney AND homeschooling
KibbyCat
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- Feb 27, 2008
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This is a small, yet hopefully priceless, suggestion for all of those parents out there who are afraid to homeschool because it might affect your child's socialization:
Please, please PLEASE, don't let that be the issue that keeps you from homeschooling. Find extracurricular activities for your kids to do so they can be with peers. Enroll them in dance classes at a local studio. Sign them up for little league or other sports at your rec center. Join a homeschool group that regularly schedules outings/events for get-togethers. If you go to church, have your kids get involved in their youth group or Awana/Royal Rangers/Missionettes/etc. Join girl scouts/boy scouts/blue birds/indian princesses at the YMCA. There are PLENTY of community activities available all over the country for children. All you have to do is look/ask.
In some cases (and sadly, in the case of that 14-year-old), socialization at public school is NOT positive. Wouldn't you rather know your kids are getting a good education than worrying about whether your 16-yr-old daughter is going to come home pregnant or your 11-yr-old son is going to get picked up by police for vandalizing someone's property with a spray paint can? In this day and age, we can not protect our kids every minute of the day, and though your child's friends may meet your approval, you can't always know every kid that your child interacts with at any given moment. Sometimes kids make bad choices, and peer pressure is so strong that it can make an otherwise smart, good kid do bad things. So, if you want to take a little more control over who your kid hangs out with, limit their socialization to parent-approved activities that you know your child will enjoy.
You can also make the most out of your social experiences by taking your kids to cultural, historical, and scientific events and learning with them. Museums, expos, and fairs offer these experiences, and are usually a lot of fun for all ages.
And remember: while a homeschooled child does not get all the same benefits (social and otherwise) that a public (or even private) school student receives, they get a different level of benefits....including the ability to go to Disney whenever the heck they want without playing hooky! Woo hoo!
Please, please PLEASE, don't let that be the issue that keeps you from homeschooling. Find extracurricular activities for your kids to do so they can be with peers. Enroll them in dance classes at a local studio. Sign them up for little league or other sports at your rec center. Join a homeschool group that regularly schedules outings/events for get-togethers. If you go to church, have your kids get involved in their youth group or Awana/Royal Rangers/Missionettes/etc. Join girl scouts/boy scouts/blue birds/indian princesses at the YMCA. There are PLENTY of community activities available all over the country for children. All you have to do is look/ask.
In some cases (and sadly, in the case of that 14-year-old), socialization at public school is NOT positive. Wouldn't you rather know your kids are getting a good education than worrying about whether your 16-yr-old daughter is going to come home pregnant or your 11-yr-old son is going to get picked up by police for vandalizing someone's property with a spray paint can? In this day and age, we can not protect our kids every minute of the day, and though your child's friends may meet your approval, you can't always know every kid that your child interacts with at any given moment. Sometimes kids make bad choices, and peer pressure is so strong that it can make an otherwise smart, good kid do bad things. So, if you want to take a little more control over who your kid hangs out with, limit their socialization to parent-approved activities that you know your child will enjoy.
You can also make the most out of your social experiences by taking your kids to cultural, historical, and scientific events and learning with them. Museums, expos, and fairs offer these experiences, and are usually a lot of fun for all ages.
And remember: while a homeschooled child does not get all the same benefits (social and otherwise) that a public (or even private) school student receives, they get a different level of benefits....including the ability to go to Disney whenever the heck they want without playing hooky! Woo hoo!
KibbyCat
DIS Veteran
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That is one of the best things I have ever heard pertaining to homeschooling. Kudos to your friend!
JennyMominRI
<font color=red>Live from Red Sox Nation<br><font
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Special Bulletin: Homeschool Ruling Vacated; Court Will Reconsider
Pacific Justice Institute has just received word that the court ruling
which declared most forms of homeschooling unlawful in California has
been vacated. This means the Rachel L. decision, which has sparked a
nationwide uproar, will not go into effect as it is currently written.
For the complete story, go to
http://www.homeschoolfacts.com/news/index.php/Homeschool_News
Pacific Justice Institute has just received word that the court ruling
which declared most forms of homeschooling unlawful in California has
been vacated. This means the Rachel L. decision, which has sparked a
nationwide uproar, will not go into effect as it is currently written.
For the complete story, go to
http://www.homeschoolfacts.com/news/index.php/Homeschool_News
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