Hillary Supporters unite part 2; no bashing please

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;) I see McCain and Obama supporters posting. Maybe we can have a Hillary discussion around their threadcra**ing.
Good luck with that! :lmao:

It's a pretty interesting discussion and I know who I agree with but I'll stay on point.
 
I like Hillary too, but I do not like how she has run her campaign. I am not bashing Hillary or her supporters. If people choose to see it that way, that is not my problem.
My comments have all been in response to other non Hillary supporting people. If you will not vote for her in a primary or general than you do not support her.

That's a broad brush. I support her as a human being who deserves to be treated with the same respect and fairness as Obama has been treated. I support her as a woman who has achieved something amazing. I support her supporters to not be ridiculed on their own thread by OS. Okay, over and out.:) I've got to go learn how to knit socks!
 

That's a broad brush. I support her as a human being who deserves to be treated with the same respect and fairness as Obama has been treated. I support her as a woman who has achieved something amazing. I support her supporters to not be ridiculed on their own thread by OS. Okay, over and out.:) I've got to go learn how to knit socks!
Knit socks? Do people still do that? It actually sounds kind of cool. :thumbsup2
 
Well, I guess then your big picture does NOT include the Supreme Court and changing health care as we know it in this country.


BTW for people that do have health care as a priority did anyone see the article in the NYT today about how women who have had a c-section are now being denied health insurance unless they have been sterilized or are over 40? The insurance companies no longer want to take a chance that they may have to pay for a future c-section because it costs as average of less than $3,000 more than a v-birth. Women are being denied health coverage for the possibility that a future birth might cost the insurance companies a few shekels more.


I thought Obama and his supporters didn't beleive in "the politics of fears", yer, more and more OS are trying to scare people into voting for their candidate
 
Hi folks.

I'm venturing back into the world.

I've tried to catch up with this thread in the hours I couldn't sleep or didn't know what to do with myself.

Thank you to those who offered prayers and well wishes for my family.

We are slowly easing back into life without Mom. Her two grandchildren (my nephews) have been a tremendous help - encouraging us to tell them all the wonderful "Nana" stories we can remember.

We asked for an autopsy, as they could never really tell us what she "had" - just that her lungs were filled with some sort of fluid that they couldn't get rid of. The preliminary autopsy was inconclusive. They don't know if they'll ever know....... Poor Mom.

As to all the "political discussions" (and whatever happened to the "no bashing" request)- I can't really get into now as I once did.

To those that think this thread doesn't have true democrats in it - you'd be wrong - I am a lifelong democrat - who even voted for Mondale.

I don't know if I'll be able to vote for Obama. Because let's face it - he's supposed to be inspiring hope and change - yet many of his supporters take that as carte blanche to be vicious, mean and downright cruel to people - especially those who are supposed to be on their own "team" (democrats) that don't like him. If that is inspiration - I want no part of it.

I'm curious though as to how he thinks he can heal the party. Obama's people called our house the day after Mom passed. Rather than tell them no way I won't vote for you - I told them it wasn't a good time to talk. I may just have a heart to heart with them when they call again - to tell them why I have reservations about their candidate.

.

:hug:

I've been there. Time really is your best friend. I won't say it gets easier, but it does get less difficult, if that makes sense. The only thing I can tell you is to go with however you feel at any given time and allow yourself to experience the whole range of emotions that come and go.

Things like politics become so small and trivial when you experience something as heart-wrenching as the loss of a loved one.

Remember to take care of yourself too!

Mary
 
/
Hi folks.

I'm venturing back into the world.

I've tried to catch up with this thread in the hours I couldn't sleep or didn't know what to do with myself.

Thank you to those who offered prayers and well wishes for my family.

We are slowly easing back into life without Mom. Her two grandchildren (my nephews) have been a tremendous help - encouraging us to tell them all the wonderful "Nana" stories we can remember.

We asked for an autopsy, as they could never really tell us what she "had" - just that her lungs were filled with some sort of fluid that they couldn't get rid of. The preliminary autopsy was inconclusive. They don't know if they'll ever know....... Poor Mom.

As to all the "political discussions" (and whatever happened to the "no bashing" request)- I can't really get into now as I once did.

To those that think this thread doesn't have true democrats in it - you'd be wrong - I am a lifelong democrat - who even voted for Mondale.

I don't know if I'll be able to vote for Obama. Because let's face it - he's supposed to be inspiring hope and change - yet many of his supporters take that as carte blanche to be vicious, mean and downright cruel to people - especially those who are supposed to be on their own "team" (democrats) that don't like him. If that is inspiration - I want no part of it.

I'm curious though as to how he thinks he can heal the party. Obama's people called our house the day after Mom passed. Rather than tell them no way I won't vote for you - I told them it wasn't a good time to talk. I may just have a heart to heart with them when they call again - to tell them why I have reservations about their candidate.

.

I didn't see this earlier. I'm sorry for your loss.
 
This thread used to be pretty positive. In fact, when I first joined the Hillary thread I was still open to voting for Obama, the only reason that I was choosing Hillary over Obama was due to Hillary having more experience and after eight years of Bush, I was concerned about Obama handling the mess this country is in. I had to stop reading the Obama thread because of their hateful slams against Clinton. I’ve read some pretty vile stuff on that thread and I find it a pretty hypocritical for you to come over here and make this statement when the Obama thread is full of Clinton hate and poking fun of her supporters.

We’ve been under attack a few times by a few nasty and very sarcastic OS. – Oh, and it looks as if today could be one of those days! Gradually, this thread has turned more negative. However, I for one, feel that since it does look as if Obama will be the Democratic nominee (regardless to how unfair I think some things have played out in this election) that I should point out the truths about the man since I know the OS thread will never dig up the dirt on him. And I do use this thread to vent.

As for the ‘Democrat’ attack – that’s just low. I, personally, don’t consider myself a Democrat so I could care less about your low blows but there are some on this board that are true Democrat’s and are having a tough time since they don’t respect the man and are seriously concerned about what they are learning bout him but they still want to vote for their party.

If you don’t like what we post there, you could stay on your own thread.

:thumbsup2 :thumbsup2

The hipocrisy is amazing, considering it comes from "Democrats" who constantly attack a sitting Democratic senator and a Former Democratic president using every right wing point that only Republicans were known to use.

You have to see this stuff to believe it
 
:thumbsup2 :thumbsup2

The hipocrisy is amazing, considering it comes from "Democrats" who constantly attack a sitting Democratic senator and a Former Democratic president using every right wing point that only Republicans were known to use.

You have to see this stuff to believe it
I will agree with this about "some". I'm constantly dismayed to see the attacks on Bill Clinton who I remember so many supporting through the troubled times. It's amazing how that has changed.
 
First off, I want to say "Welcome Back" to Jarn...We don't always agree about everything, but we share the experience of losing a parent at much to young an age, and my thoughts are with you.

I thought Obama and his supporters didn't beleive in "the politics of fears", yer, more and more OS are trying to scare people into voting for their candidate

It's not "scare tactics". I look at it more as incredulity that people that claim to support what Hillary stands for are supporting this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioy90nF2anI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KACQuZVAE3s

It isn't a "scare tactic" to say that supporting someone that stands firmly against everything you claim to stand for makes little sense. It isn't a scare tactic to say that the guy in the videos above is in no way a better alternative than a Democrat whose differences with your candidate are mostly cosmetic in nature rather than policy based.

You ask why Obama supporters post here...and my answer is the same as it always has been. We have far more in common than we do separating us politically. Right now, people are acting out emotionally because their chosen candidate looks like she is going to lose the nomination. That's understandable, to a certain degree. But for page after page this thread has become nothing more than an Obama bashing club, several members of which are now frequenting the Conservative thread on this board. I'm sorry, but I find it hard to believe that people that claim to support Hillary Clinton are finding more in common with adamant Bush supporters than they are with people in their own party that hold many of the same beliefs as their chosen candidate. Health care, national security, the war in Iraq, poverty, civil rights....all of these are issues where we largely agree, while the people on the Conservative thread stand in direct opposition. Think about that the next time you're applauding someone for saying they're going to vote for the Republican candidate, because a vote for McCain is a vote against everything you claim to believe in.
 
Which is an excellent reason for you to have supported her in the primaries. However, if she is not on the ballot in November, are you really going to vote for the guy whose health care plan would actually hurt working men and women alike? Apparently, many people on this thread are going to do just that. And why? Because someone at Obama's church - not Obama himself, mind you, and he has never done or said anything to indicate he agrees with those views in over 15 years of public service - said something nasty. :rolleyes:

Why do you keep ignoring the many, many reasons which have been given here?

Did you miss the link Free4life posted? Let me show the article again, though I have a feeling you will ignore it again

Count Me Out The Obama Craze
By MATT GONZALEZ
OpEd News, February 29, 2008
Straight to the Source


Part of me shares the enthusiasm for Barack Obama. After all, how could someone calling themself a progressive not sense the importance of what it means to have an African-American so close to the presidency? But as his campaign has unfolded, and I heard that we are not red states or blue states for the 6th or 7th time, I realized I knew virtually nothing about him.

Like most, I know he gave a stirring speech at the Democratic National Convention in 2004. I know he defeated Alan Keyes in the Illinois Senate race; although it wasn't much of a contest (Keyes was living in Maryland when he announced). Recently, I started looking into Obama's voting record, and I'm afraid to say I'm not just uninspired: I'm downright fearful. Here's why:

This is a candidate who says he's going to usher in change; that he is a different kind of politician who has the skills to get things done. He reminds us again and again that he had the foresight to oppose the war in Iraq. And he seems to have a genuine interest in lifting up the poor.

But his record suggests that he is incapable of ushering in any kind of change I'd like to see. It is one of accommodation and concession to the very political powers that we need to reign in and oppose if we are to make truly lasting advances.

THE WAR IN IRAQ

Let's start with his signature position against the Iraq war. Obama has sent mixed messages at best.

First, he opposed the war in Iraq while in the Illinois state legislature. Once he was running for US Senate though, when public opinion and support for the war was at its highest, he was quoted in the July 27, 2004 Chicago Tribune as saying, "There's not that much difference between my position and George Bush's position at this stage. The difference, in my mind, is who's in a position to execute." The Tribune went on to say that Obama, "now believes US forces must remain to stabilize the war-ravaged nation a policy not dissimilar to the current approach of the Bush administration."

Obama's campaign says he was referring to the ongoing occupation and how best to stabilize the region. But why wouldn't he have taken the opportunity to urge withdrawal if he truly opposed the war? Was he trying to signal to conservative voters that he would subjugate his anti-war position if elected to the US Senate and perhaps support a lengthy occupation? Well as it turns out, he's done just that.

Since taking office in January 2005 he has voted to approve every war appropriation the Republicans have put forward, totaling over $300 billion. He also voted to confirm Condoleezza Rice as Secretary of State despite her complicity in the Bush Administration's various false justifications for going to war in Iraq. Why would he vote to make one of the architects of "Operation Iraqi Liberation" the head of US foreign policy? Curiously, he lacked the courage of 13 of his colleagues who voted against her confirmation.

And though he often cites his background as a civil rights lawyer, Obama voted to reauthorize the Patriot Act in July 2005, easily the worse attack on civil liberties in the last half-century. It allows for wholesale eavesdropping on American citizens under the guise of anti-terrorism efforts.

And in March 2006, Obama went out of his way to travel to Connecticut to campaign for Senator Joseph Lieberman who faced a tough challenge by anti-war candidate Ned Lamont. At a Democratic Party dinner attended by Lamont, Obama called Lieberman "his mentor" and urged those in attendance to vote and give financial contributions to him. This is the same Lieberman who Alexander Cockburn called "Bush's closest Democratic ally on the Iraq War." Why would Obama have done that if he was truly against the war?

Recently, with anti-war sentiment on the rise, Obama declared he will get our combat troops out of Iraq in 2009. But Obama isn't actually saying he wants to get all of our troops out of Iraq. At a September 2007 debate before the New Hampshire primary, moderated by Tim Russert, Obama refused to commit to getting our troops out of Iraq by January 2013 and, on the campaign trail, he has repeatedly stated his desire to add 100,000 combat troops to the military.

At the same event, Obama committed to keeping enough soldiers in Iraq to "carry out our counter-terrorism activities there" which includes "striking at al Qaeda in Iraq." What he didn't say is this continued warfare will require an estimated 60,000 troops to remain in Iraq according to a May 2006 report prepared by the Center for American Progress. Moreover, it appears he intends to "redeploy" the troops he takes out of the unpopular war in Iraq and send them to Afghanistan. So it appears that under Obama's plan the US will remain heavily engaged in war.

This is hardly a position to get excited about.

CLASS ACTION REFORM:

In 2005, Obama joined Republicans in passing a law dubiously called the Class Action Fairness Act (CAFA) that would shut down state courts as a venue to hear many class action lawsuits. Long a desired objective of large corporations and President George Bush, Obama in effect voted to deny redress in many of the courts where these kinds of cases have the best chance of surviving corporate legal challenges. Instead, it forces them into the backlogged Republican-judge dominated federal courts.

By contrast, Senators Clinton, Edwards and Kerry joined 23 others to vote against CAFA, noting the "reform" was a thinly-veiled "special interest extravaganza" that favored banking, creditors and other corporate interests. David Sirota, the former spokesman for Democrats on the House Appropriations Committee, commented on CAFA in the June 26, 2006 issue of The Nation, "Opposed by most major civil rights and consumer watchdog groups, this Big Business-backed legislation was sold to the public as a way to stop "frivolous" lawsuits. But everyone in Washington knew the bill's real objective was to protect corporate abusers."

Nation contributor Dan Zegart noted further: "On its face, the class-action bill is mere procedural tinkering, transferring from state to federal court actions involving more than $5 million where any plaintiff is from a different state from the defendant company. But federal courts are much more hostile to class actions than their state counterparts; such cases tend to be rooted in the finer points of state law, in which federal judges are reluctant to dabble. And even if federal judges do take on these suits, with only 678 of them on the bench (compared with 9,200 state judges), already overburdened dockets will grow. Thus, the bill will make class actions most of which involve discrimination, consumer fraud and wage-and-hour violations all but impossible. One example: After forty lawsuits were filed against Wal-Mart for allegedly forcing employees to work "off the clock," four state courts certified these suits as class actions. Not a single federal court did so, although the practice probably involves hundreds of thousands of employees nationwide."

Why would a civil rights lawyer knowingly make it harder for working-class people ( Or the people of Hunter Point suing Lennar) to have their day in court, in effect shutting off avenues of redress?

CREDIT CARD INTEREST RATES:

Obama has a way of ducking hard votes or explaining away his bad votes by trying to blame poorly-written statutes. Case in point: an amendment he voted on as part of a recent bankruptcy bill before the US Senate would have capped credit card interest rates at 30 percent. Inexplicably, Obama voted against it, although it would have been the beginning of setting these predatory lending rates under federal control. Even Senator Hillary Clinton supported it.

Now Obama explains his vote by saying the amendment was poorly written or set the ceiling too high. His explanation isn't credible as Obama offered no lower number as an alternative, and didn't put forward his own amendment clarifying whatever language he found objectionable.

Why wouldn't Obama have voted to create the first federal ceiling on predatory credit card interest rates, particularly as he calls himself a champion of the poor and middle classes? Perhaps he was signaling to the corporate establishment that they need not fear him. For all of his dynamic rhetoric about lifting up the masses, it seems Obama has little intention of doing anything concrete to reverse the cycle of poverty many struggle to overcome.

LIMITING NON-ECONOMIC DAMAGES:

These seemingly unusual votes wherein Obama aligns himself with Republican Party interests aren't new. While in the Illinois Senate, Obama voted to limit the recovery that victims of medical malpractice could obtain through the courts. Capping non-economic damages in medical malpractice cases means a victim cannot fully recover for pain and suffering or for punitive damages. Moreover, it ignored that courts were already empowered to adjust awards when appropriate, and that the Illinois Supreme Court had previously ruled such limits on tort reform violated the state constitution.

In the US Senate, Obama continued interfering with patients' full recovery for tortious conduct. He was a sponsor of the National Medical Error Disclosure and Compensation Act of 2005. The bill requires hospitals to disclose errors to patients and has a mechanism whereby disclosure, coupled with apologies, is rewarded by limiting patients' economic recovery. Rather than simply mandating disclosure, Obama's solution is to trade what should be mandated for something that should never be given away: namely, full recovery for the injured patient.

MINING LAW OF 1872:

In November 2007, Obama came out against a bill that would have reformed the notorious Mining Law of 1872. The current statute, signed into law by Ulysses Grant, allows mining companies to pay a nominal fee, as little as $2.50 an acre, to mine for hardrock minerals like gold, silver, and copper without paying royalties. Yearly profits for mining hardrock on public lands is estimated to be in excess of $1 billion a year according to Earthworks, a group that monitors the industry. Not surprisingly, the industry spends freely when it comes to lobbying: an estimated $60 million between 1998-2004 according to The Center on Public Integrity. And it appears to be paying off, yet again.

The Hardrock Mining and Reclamation Act of 2007 would have finally overhauled the law and allowed American taxpayers to reap part of the royalties (4 percent of gross revenue on existing mining operations and 8 percent on new ones). The bill provided a revenue source to cleanup abandoned hardrock mines, which is likely to cost taxpayers over $50 million, and addressed health and safety concerns in the 11 affected western states.

Later it came to light that one of Obama's key advisors in Nevada is a Nevada-based lobbyist in the employ of various mining companies (CBS News "Obama's Position On Mining Law Questioned. Democrat Shares Position with Mining Executives Who Employ Lobbyist Advising Him," November 14, 2007).

REGULATING NUCLEAR INDUSTRY:

The New York Times reported that, while campaigning in Iowa in December 2007, Obama boasted that he had passed a bill requiring nuclear plants to promptly report radioactive leaks. This came after residents of his home state of Illinois complained they were not told of leaks that occurred at a nuclear plant operated by Exelon Corporation.

The truth, however, was that Obama allowed the bill to be amended in Committee by Senate Republicans, replacing language mandating reporting with verbiage that merely offered guidance to regulators on how to address unreported leaks. The story noted that even this version of Obama's bill failed to pass the Senate, so it was unclear why Obama was claiming to have passed the legislation. The February 3, 2008 The New York Times article titled "Nuclear Leaks and Response Tested Obama in Senate" by Mike McIntire also noted the opinion of one of Obama's constituents, which was hardly enthusiastic about Obama's legislative efforts:

"Senator Obama's staff was sending us copies of the bill to review, and we could see it weakening with each successive draft," said Joe Cosgrove, a park district director in Will County, Ill., where low-level radioactive runoff had turned up in groundwater. "The teeth were just taken out of it."

As it turns out, the New York Times story noted: "Since 2003, executives and employees of Exelon, which is based in Illinois, have contributed at least $227,000 to Mr. Obama's campaigns for the United States Senate and for president. Two top Exelon officials, Frank M. Clark, executive vice president, and John W. Rogers Jr., a director, are among his largest fund-raisers."

ENERGY POLICY:

On energy policy, it turns out Obama is a big supporter of corn-based ethanol which is well known for being an energy-intensive crop to grow. It is estimated that seven barrels of oil are required to produce eight barrels of corn ethanol, according to research by the Cato Institute. Ethanol's impact on climate change is nominal and isn't "green" according to Alisa Gravitz, Co-op America executive director. "It simply isn't a major improvement over gasoline when it comes to reducing our greenhouse gas emissions." A 2006 University of Minnesota study by Jason Hill and David Tilman, and an earlier study published in BioScience in 2005, concur. (There's even concern that a reliance on corn-based ethanol would lead to higher food prices.)

So why would Obama be touting this as a solution to our oil dependency? Could it have something to do with the fact that the first presidential primary is located in Iowa, corn capital of the country? In legislative terms this means Obama voted in favor of $8 billion worth of corn subsidies in 2006 alone, when most of that money should have been committed to alternative energy sources such as solar, tidal and wind.

SINGLE-PAYER HEALTH CARE:

Obama opposed single-payer bill HR676, sponsored by Congressmen Dennis Kucinich and John Conyers in 2006, although at least 75 members of Congress supported it. Single-payer works by trying to diminish the administrative costs that comprise somewhere around one-third of every health care dollar spent, by eliminating the duplicative nature of these services. The expected $300 billion in annual savings such a system would produce would go directly to cover the uninsured and expand coverage to those who already have insurance, according to Dr. Stephanie Woolhandler, an Associate Professor of Medicine at Harvard Medical School and co-founder of Physicians for a National Health Program.

Obama's own plan has been widely criticized for leaving health care industry administrative costs in place and for allowing millions of people to remain uninsured. "Sicko" filmmaker Michael Moore ridiculed it saying, "Obama wants the insurance companies to help us develop a new health care plan-the same companies who have created the mess in the first place."

NORTH AMERICAN FREE TRADE AGREEMENT:

Regarding the North American Free Trade Agreement, Obama recently boasted, "I don't think NAFTA has been good for Americans, and I never have." Yet, Calvin Woodward reviewed Obama's record on NAFTA in a February 26, 2008 Associated Press article and found that comment to be misleading: "In his 2004 Senate campaign, Obama said the US should pursue more deals such as NAFTA, and argued more broadly that his opponent's call for tariffs would spark a trade war. AP reported then that the Illinois senator had spoken of enormous benefits having accrued to his state from NAFTA, while adding that he also called for more aggressive trade protections for US workers."

Putting aside campaign rhetoric, when actually given an opportunity to protect workers from unfair trade agreements, Obama cast the deciding vote against an amendment to a September 2005 Commerce Appropriations Bill, proposed by North Dakota Senator Byron Dorgan, that would have prohibited US trade negotiators from weakening US laws that provide safeguards from unfair foreign trade practices. The bill would have been a vital tool to combat the outsourcing of jobs to foreign workers and would have ended a common corporate practice known as "pole-vaulting" over regulations, which allows companies doing foreign business to avoid "right to organize," "minimum wage," and other worker protections.

SOME FINAL EXAMPLES:

On March 2, 2007 Obama gave a speech at AIPAC, America's pro-Israeli government lobby, wherein he disavowed his previous support for the plight of the Palestinians. In what appears to be a troubling pattern, Obama told his audience what they wanted to hear. He recounted a one-sided history of the region and called for continued military support for Israel, rather than taking the opportunity to promote the various peace movements in and outside of Israel.

Why should we believe Obama has courage to bring about change? He wouldn't have his picture taken with San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom when visiting San Francisco for a fundraiser in his honor because Obama was scared voters might think he supports gay marriage (Newsom acknowledged this to Reuters on January 26, 2007 and former Mayor Willie Brown admitted to the San Francisco Chronicle on February 5, 2008 that Obama told him he wanted to avoid Newsom for that reason.)

Obama acknowledges the disproportionate impact the death penalty has on blacks, but still supports it, while other politicians are fighting to stop it. (On December 17, 2007 New Jersey Governor Jon Corzine signed a bill banning the death penalty after it was passed by the New Jersey Assembly.)

On September 29, 2006, Obama joined Republicans in voting to build 700 miles of double fencing on the Mexican border (The Secure Fence Act of 2006), abandoning 19 of his colleagues who had the courage to oppose it. But now that he's campaigning in Texas and eager to win over Mexican-American voters, he says he'd employ a different border solution.

It is shocking how frequently and consistently Obama is willing to subjugate good decision making for his personal and political benefit.

Obama aggressively opposed initiating impeachment proceedings against the president ("Obama: Impeachment is not acceptable," USA Today, June 28, 2007) and he wouldn't even support Wisconsin Senator Russ Feingold's effort to censure the Bush administration for illegally wiretapping American citizens in violation of the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. In Feingold's words "I'm amazed at Democrats cowering with this president's number's so low." Once again, it's troubling that Obama would take these positions and miss the opportunity to document the abuses of the Bush regime.

CONCLUSION:

Once I started looking at the votes Obama actually cast, I began to hear his rhetoric differently. The principal conclusion I draw about "change" and Barack Obama is that Obama needs to change his voting habits and stop pandering to win votes. If he does this he might someday make a decent candidate who could earn my support. For now Obama has fallen into a dangerous pattern of capitulation that he cannot reconcile with his growing popularity as an agent of change.

I remain impressed by the enthusiasm generated by Obama's style and skill as an orator. But I remain more loyal to my values, and I'm glad to say that I want no part in the Obama craze sweeping our country.

Matt Gonzalez is a former president of the San Francisco Board of Supervisors and is running on Nader's ticket as a vice presidential candidate.


-----------------------
 
That's fine if that is how you feel. I support your right to believe as you do. I support my right to do the same. I just can't believe, from the little I know of your beliefs from what I've read on this board, that you would afford Hillary or McCain or anyone else for that matter, the same benefit of the doubt that you are affording Obama. All I can say is that I sure hope you guys are right, and that you can all say "I told you so", should Obama be the next POTUS. That would be one circumstance when I would not want to be right.

I don't know how "benefit of the doubt" applies here, wheh Wright himself said that his words were not "a few soundbytes taken out of context", but that he meant everything the way it sounded, and that those sermons fully reflect his belief.
 
Guys, I came here to read this thread because I was curious about what you all were saying. My only observations are: where are all the positive Hillary comments AND are you sure you guys are democrats? I get the feeling that the Hillary supporters thread has been taken over by people who really NEVER would have supported her but are just here to bash Obama. I have many friends who are behind Hillary and NONE of them are well, anything like you all. They are true Democrats, excited by the chase, proud of the party, understanding of the process and may be disappointed at the final outcome but ready for the big fight. Peace.
Btw, if Hillary wins somehow, I'm campaigning for her. She's a wonderful person, great mind, would be a very POTUS. For the record, I'm for Obama because I think it's his time and I like what I see - balanced, levelheaded, gracious, wonderful representative of our country. We need healing. I think Obama will do just that if he's allowed and supported. Four years ago, I wanted someone other than Kerry. I'm a Democrat. I worked for him. I watched as the Rove machine beat him to a pulp. A year ago, I hoped that Hillary would be organized and strong in this primary season. She wasn't. Her campaigners made many big mistakes. It's a shame. I'm was a feminist and now I'm a humanist. It hurt me to turn from the woman candidate. I honestly felt it necessary. There was no kool aid. I don't ingest food dye. Sorry, to those real democrats on this thread. The rest of you are just wolves in sheep's clothing.


While I appreciate your concern for my political affiliation, I have to admit it's post like these that irritate the crap out of me. Just because I don't agree with you and your chosen candidate doesn't mean I'm not a "real democrat".

I have a list of reasons why I don't like and agree with Obama, those reasons are mine. You don't have to agree with them, you don't have to approve, and you don't have to try to change my mind. I already have my reasons for not liking him as a politician, but the more his supporters try to bash his wonderfulness upside my head it makes me dislike him on a different level - that's new for me. Never have I been treated like an uneducated lowlife because I don't agree with another member of the same party before, I have done my best to ignore the Obama supporters but you can only be bashed upside the head so many times before you've just had enough. And for the record this goes beyond the DIS, it's everywhere.

So let me put it this way. I am a democrat, I always have been. I do not like Obama, I never have. I am not now nor will I ever be in need of an Obama re-education. I do not appreciate being talked down to, looked down upon, and generally dealt with as if I don't have two brain cells to rub together because I believe Hillary is the better candidate for OUR party. Got it?!
 
Yes, Obama felt a connection to the people in his church. Does that mean he agreed with everything they believed? Do all Catholics support the pope even though he had a direct hand in covering up the sexual abuse of children by the clergy? [/I]?

You know, I'm SICK of the comparison to the Catholic Church. It doesn't wash. If the Pope or any priest has been advocating sexual child abuse from the pulpit. then you'd have a point. But that's not the case, so the comparison is absurd, and it only makes you look desperate
 
I thought Obama and his supporters didn't beleive in "the politics of fears", yer, more and more OS are trying to scare people into voting for their candidate

So what is McCain proposing to do for health care? And what do you make of him saying he will apppoint more Alito types to the bench? This isn't about "what if" it's about "what will be." That's not fear -it's reality.
 
So let me put it this way. I am a democrat, I always have been. I do not like Obama, I never have. I am not now nor will I ever be in need of an Obama re-education. I do not appreciate being talked down to, looked down upon, and generally dealt with as if I don't have two brain cells to rub together because I believe Hillary is the better candidate for OUR party. Got it?!

:thumbsup2

I had nothing against Obama at the beginning. I was a Richardson supporter, actually, but as this campaign went on, I liked Obama less and less. I was perfectly willing to vote for him, however, until the Rev. Wright mess. That was it for me. Since then, everything I have read about him makes me like him less.

Additionally, as a woman, I feel personally affronted at the way Hillary has been treated by some people (and I don't mean Obama personally here-just people connected to him).

I do not know yet for whom I will vote in November, but I am almost positive it will not be Obama.
 
That's a broad brush. I support her as a human being who deserves to be treated with the same respect and fairness as Obama has been treated. I support her as a woman who has achieved something amazing. I support her supporters to not be ridiculed on their own thread by OS. Okay, over and out.:) I've got to go learn how to knit socks!



She has been treated with the same respect and fairness as Obama. They both have had the media make mountains out of mole hills. They both have been raked over the coals for comments that were not the best things to have said.

The only one getting a free pass in the media is YOUR guy.

OS are not ridiculing the HS by pointing out facts and opinions on how the two candidates are more similar than different.
 
So what is McCain proposing to do for health care? And what do you make of him saying he will apppoint more Alito types to the bench? This isn't about "what if" it's about "what will be." That's not fear -it's reality.
Sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don't. Please do not construe this as any sort of support for McCain, it is more of a visceral distrust for Obama and the people to whom he is connected.
 
Sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don't. Please do not construe this as any sort of support for McCain, it is more of a visceral distrust for Obama and the people to whom he is connected.



The devil I know wants to take away my daughter's right to reproductive freedom. NO devil is any more evil than that one IMO.
 
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