Hillary Supporters unite part 2; no bashing please

[Duckfan-in-Chicago]

You know, I'm SICK of the comparison to the Catholic Church. It doesn't wash. If the Pope or any priest has been advocating sexual child abuse from the pulpit. then you'd have a point. But that's not the case, so the comparison is absurd, and it only makes you look desperate

And both Phleger and Wright were picked to work on Obama's campaign. It wasn't just a relationship to people in the church. It was the two people in question.

And he's had a relationship with both for about the same 20 years.

 

[chobie]

And both Phleger and Wright were picked to work on Obama's campaign. It wasn't just a relationship to people in the church. It was the two people in question.

And he's had a relationship with both for about the same 20 years.

So what about McCain seeking out Hagee's endorsement? How do you feel about that?

 

[punkin]

The devil I know wants to take away my daughter's right to reproductive freedom. NO devil is any more evil than that one IMO.

The right to choose is extremely important to me, BUT it is not the only reason I vote.

 

[Duckfan-in-Chicago]

So what about McCain seeking out Hagee's endorsement? How do you feel about that?

Start a thread about it.

 

[chobie]

The right to choose is extremely important to me, BUT it is not the only reason I vote.

I also vote for health care. And bringing the troops home ASAP. But Roe is a justice away from being overturned and Ginsberg and Kenney ain't getting any younger.

 

[chobie]

Start a thread about it.

What's the point? No one wants to talk about McCain.

 

[moon]

First off, I want to say "Welcome Back" to Jarn...We don't always agree about everything, but we share the experience of losing a parent at much to young an age, and my thoughts are with you.



It's not "scare tactics". I look at it more as incredulity that people that claim to support what Hillary stands for are supporting this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioy90nF2anI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KACQuZVAE3s

It isn't a "scare tactic" to say that supporting someone that stands firmly against everything you claim to stand for makes little sense. It isn't a scare tactic to say that the guy in the videos above is in no way a better alternative than a Democrat whose differences with your candidate are mostly cosmetic in nature rather than policy based.

You ask why Obama supporters post here...and my answer is the same as it always has been. We have far more in common than we do separating us politically. Right now, people are acting out emotionally because their chosen candidate looks like she is going to lose the nomination. That's understandable, to a certain degree. But for page after page this thread has become nothing more than an Obama bashing club, several members of which are now frequenting the Conservative thread on this board. I'm sorry, but I find it hard to believe that people that claim to support Hillary Clinton are finding more in common with adamant Bush supporters than they are with people in their own party that hold many of the same beliefs as their chosen candidate. Health care, national security, the war in Iraq, poverty, civil rights....all of these are issues where we largely agree, while the people on the Conservative thread stand in direct opposition. Think about that the next time you're applauding someone for saying they're going to vote for the Republican candidate, because a vote for McCain is a vote against everything you claim to believe in.

GMAB. If you want unity why don'y you look at the mirror first, then start the unity process at HOME. in your own thread, working so that the OS stop their hatefulness towards hillary and her supporters. Why don't you work from the inside out.

NO. You don't mind if hillary and her supporters are bashed, attacked and destroyed -in fact, I'm sure you gleefully join in those attacks.

So please excuse me if that makes me skeptical of your sincerty. How do you expect to be taken seriously when you act that way?

 

[wvrevy]

You know, I'm SICK of the comparison to the Catholic Church. It doesn't wash. If the Pope or any priest has been advocating sexual child abuse from the pulpit. then you'd have a point. But that's not the case, so the comparison is absurd, and it only makes you look desperate

As to your first post - written by a direct opponent of Senator Obama's that is running as nutjob Ralph Nader's VP candidate and therefore subject to a great deal of cynicism - yes, there are some things that the two (Obama and Clinton) disagree with. But what that hit piece fails to mention is that McCain, who many of you are now claiming to support, voted against Democratic ideals something like 98% of the time. His voting record in the last 8 years is among the most conservative in the entire senate. So while Obama may have cast some votes that you disagree with, he is far more likely to support the same ideals that you claim to hold than is John McCain.

As to the above quoted post, frankly, I'm every bit as sick of hearing about how Obama's church has caused people to turn against him as you seem to be of hearing about the Catholic Church's support of pedophiles. If the president of a conglomerate of daycare centers issued a memo urging his employees to hide sexual abuse from law enforcement and public scrutiny, and went out of his way to assist in the transfer of known pedophiles from one daycare center to another to help avoid prosecution, that president would be in jail as an accessory. Yet this pope is not only not in jail, he was recently honored by the President of the United States ("Awesome speech, your holiness!"). I'm sorry, but if you still sit in and tithe to a Catholic Church - a church that preaches obedience to the will of the church that is set by that very pope - then YES, you are just as culpable for those actions as Obama is for the actions of the leaders of his church. Denial of that simple fact is selective ethics at best...and massive hypocrisy at worst.

 

[punkin]

I also vote for health care. And bringing the troops home ASAP. But Roe is a justice away from being overturned and Ginsberg and Kenney ain't getting any younger.

I do not like Obama's health care plan. I believe only a single payer plan to which everyone MUST subscribe can work. Otherwise, it's a waste of money and will not work. McCain has no plan to speak of. At least that's a cheaper alternative to Obama's half way there, but not enough plan.

The troops will not come home ASAP no matter who is elected, and even McCain has been saying that they should come home before 2013. That is a matter for Congress to force and we will have a majority there I am sure.

Thus we are back to Roe v. Wade. It's a conundrum. I'll give you that.

 

[Duckfan-in-Chicago]

What's the point? No one wants to talk about McCain.

So then why do you keep bringing him up? Maybe find a different deflection technique?

 

[moon]

First off, I want to say "Welcome Back" to Jarn...We don't always agree about everything, but we share the experience of losing a parent at much to young an age, and my thoughts are with you.



It's not "scare tactics". I look at it more as incredulity that people that claim to support what Hillary stands for are supporting this guy:

One more thing, you've said yourself that you won't vote for Hillary, unless she gets the nomination according to your standards.

Everything you say also applies to you

Health care, national security, the war in Iraq, poverty, civil rights....all of these are issues where we largely agree, while the people on the Conservative thread stand in direct opposition. Think about that the next time you're applauding someone for saying they're going to vote for the Republican candidate, because a vote for McCain is a vote against everything you claim to believe in.

You also claim to believe in those things, yet you said you'd not vote for Hillary if she was the Democratic Nominee.

Don't you see the hipocrisy?

 

[wvrevy]

GMAB. If you want unity why don'y you look at the mirror first, then start the unity process at HOME. in your own thread, working so that the OS stop their hatefulness towards hillary and her supporters. Why don't you work from the inside out.

NO. You don't mind if hillary and her supporters are bashed, attacked and destroyed -in fact, I'm sure you gleefully join in those attacks.

So please excuse me if that makes me skeptical of your sincerty. How do you expect to be taken seriously when you act that way?

See, this is the biggest problem I have with Hillary supporters. I have in NO way attacked Hillary supporters as a whole. Not once. The closest I've come was in the post you just quoted when I said that I believed many were acting out of an emotional place rather than one based on reason. Yet you seem to insist on claiming that I have done so, and when I ask you to point to a post where I have done that, I'm sure I'll get no response.

As for attacks on Hillary herself, yes, there have been many on that thread, including some that I posted. Usually, it has to do with what we see as "negative" tactics or something along those lines (I'm not going to list them all here). The few times I've seen them cross the line - as with jokes about her possibly harming Obama as a reason not to have her on the ticket - I have spoken up and called those posters out. I even posted on this very thread that I thought the flap about the RFK comments was a bit silly, as it was just poor phrasing on her part, not the expression of a wish for something bad to befall her opponent.

If you go back through and look at my comments throughout this thread, I think you'll find that you're wrong, and that I've been saying much the same things all along. We disagree on who would be best to represent our party and our beliefs in the general election. Other than that, we agree on most everything else. My posts here have nearly always been about defending Obama from what I saw as unfair attacks, and trying to keep the big picture out there that, first choice or not, Obama is still much closer to your stated beliefs than McCain has ever been. I've long since moved past trying to convince anyone here that they should choose Obama over Hillary. That's your choice to make as a Democrat, and I respect your decision even while disagreeing with it, provided it was made for the right reasons. But how anyone claiming to hold the same liberal beliefs as Hillary Clinton could even consider voting for someone that will actively work against those beliefs is just beyond my understanding.

 

[chobie]

So then why do you keep bringing him up? Maybe find a different deflection technique?

Deflect from what?

And let me clarify, many do want to talk about McCain but only that they will vote for him. They will not go any deeper. So a thread that proposes to discuss what McCain stands for, who he associates with, what he will do, will not get very far.


Now to the cons that post on this thread -they have the same agenda as I do. We both want you to consider voting for the candidate from our party.

 

[wvrevy]

One more thing, you've said yourself that you won't vote for Hillary, unless she gets the nomination according to your standards.

Everything you say also applies to you

You also claim to believe in those things, yet you said you'd not vote for Hillary if she was the Democratic Nominee.

Don't you see the hipocrisy?

You're absolutely right. I did make those statements...in anger over certain things done by the Clinton campaign. Would I have stood by them in November when walking into the voting booth? I honestly don't know.

But when you said "according to your standards", keep in mind that you are talking about the standards of the Democratic Party itself. If she did not receive the majority of delegates, the majority of votes, and lost the vast majority of states yet was given the nomination anyway..........yes, I see that as being anathema to the beliefs of the party as I understand them. Giving Hillary the nomination after changing the rules at the end of the game would have just been wrong, in my opinion, so I made those comments out of anger.

But that hardly changes the fact that many people here are openly advocating casting a vote for someone that firmly stands in opposition to everything Hillary Clinton believes in.

 

[punkin]

But how anyone claiming to hold the same liberal beliefs as Hillary Clinton could even consider voting for someone that will actively work against those beliefs is just beyond my understanding.

I have to laugh...this from the man who said he would ACTIVELY campaign for MCCain if Hillary got the nomination.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Deflect from what?

And let me clarify, many do want to talk about McCain but only that they will vote for him. They will not go any deeper. So a thread that proposes to discuss what McCain stands for, who he associates with, what he will do, will not get very far.


Now to the cons that post on this thread -they have the same agenda as I do. We both want you to consider voting for the candidate from our party.

You are mistaken. I don't have an agenda. Period. So don't speak for me. I'm not here to sway anyone. I come here to gain perspective as I stated earlier. I've never mentioned McCain. I have an interest in the whole process.

ETA- Before my statement gets the OS "twist" my interest falls in the category of who wins in the end will be my President.

 

[wvrevy]

I have to laugh...this from the man who said he would ACTIVELY campaign for MCCain if Hillary got the nomination.

While you're laughing, you might also want to note that I said I would do so only if she won the nomination through changing the rules after the contest was over.

When this all got started, I stated MANY times that I would be proud to vote for Hillary as the Democratic nominee if she won the nomination. I have had many problems with how she has run her campaign, and that caused me to say what I did, and yes, I still feel the same way. If she'd won the nomination fairly, then she'd have my full support. I spoke out of anger over tactics that I viewed as unfair and unworthy of the Democratic Party nominee, and I will readily admit that those comments were more based on the emotions of the moment than on any real rational argument that McCain would be a better president for this country.

 

[chobie]

You are mistaken. I don't have an agenda. Period. So don't speak for me. I'm not here to sway anyone. I come here to gain perspective as I stated earlier. I've never mentioned McCain. I have an interest in the whole process.

I was not going to post this here but since you have indicated you think Hillary has been treated unfairly than answer me this...

Do you think for a minute that a male candidate could run on his wife's career and not get laughed out of the race?


Could you imagine if say the husband of a female governor tried to later run for Governor by saying things like "back when I was in the Governor's mansion."


Now, for the record, I think it is valid experience because Hillary, unlike these Stepford Republican mannequins actually did stuff while First Lady, but no man could get away with that.

 

[chobie]

I do not like Obama's health care plan. I believe only a single payer plan to which everyone MUST subscribe can work. Otherwise, it's a waste of money and will not work. McCain has no plan to speak of. At least that's a cheaper alternative to Obama's half way there, but not enough plan.

The troops will not come home ASAP no matter who is elected, and even McCain has been saying that they should come home before 2013. That is a matter for Congress to force and we will have a majority there I am sure.

Thus we are back to Roe v. Wade. It's a conundrum. I'll give you that.

Hillary is not suggesting a single payer system, is she?

 

[OceanAnnie]

I was not going to post this here but since you have indicated you think Hillary has been treated unfairly than answer me this...

Do you think for a minute that a male candidate could run on his wife's career and not get laughed out of the race?


Could you imagine if say the husband of a female governor tried to later run for Governor by saying things like "back when I was in the Governor's mansion."


Now, for the record, I think it is valid experience because Hillary, unlike these Stepford Republican mannequins actually did stuff while First Lady, but no man could get away with that.

She has a political career of her own.