Hiding spending from Family

[laceltris3]

just as a suggestion-talk to your parents about naming an alternate trustee who has no relationship to your familial situation so that if your sister/her significant other gets threatening or dangerous with you in the administration of the trust you have the ability to hand off duties for your own protection.

I suggest this b/c my mom had thought of doing the same thing b/c of my dysfunctional (by choice) sibling. I begged her not to do so if she was going to name one of us remaining siblings to be the trustee b/c I knew how manipulative and harassing for money the one sibling could be-and had seen the outright abuse brought onto my parents my entire life because of badgering for handouts (I blame them in large part-they never said 'no', never held the person accountable so in large part they helped create 'the monster'). mom decided not to set up the trust that way, she left what she wanted to that sib-but it still wasn't enough by their standards so they made my life a living hell from the moment mom came close to death. upon mom's death I was harassed for money endlessly (despite the bulk of it being distributed as soon as the banks allowed-they do after all want to see a death certificate which doesn't just appear upon the last breath leaving someone's body) up to the point where law enforcement in 3 jurisdictions had to get involved due to threats of bodily harm against me and others in my immediate family. 3 lawyers later a sizeable chunk of what mom had wanted to distribute was eaten up in legal fees. a trust can be rock solid and as trustee you may be within every right but that doesn't mean a lawyer is going to defend that trust for free when some deadbeat goes to legal aide and gets all their expenses covered to fight every minute appropriate action you take.

I wish my mom had named someone else to deal with the stuff, someone who 'the monster' didn't know how to get to personally. it would have been well worth it for any fee associated. with a violent felon in your situation it would be especially valuable.

it's telling that several years after mom passed and I learned of that siblings death (no contact after law enforcement became involved) that my first thought was that I no longer had to fear answering phone calls from their area code.

Thanks for your suggestions and insight. There is a manner for a substitute or alternate Trustee in the event I am unable or unwilling. Sister *may*not know about the guy's criminal history, and she has mainly become his sugar mama. She is desperate for companionship. I feel sorry for her. She's not wealthy, but she has a masters degree and owns a townhouse and is by far the most financially secure person he has ever known, and he seems happy to let her pay the bills while he lives there for free and blows his own money on things like guitars (while they are both unemployed).

I am an attorney, and I found his criminal history online. A search led to a mugshot which led to his arrest and court records from the county courts (pled guilty to aggravated battery with a deadly weapon, after failing to appear and having his bond revoked, and then pled guilty to a second felony for violating his probation, plus other miscellaneous lesser crime). I didn't pay for a background check, and strongly suspect there is additional criminal history out there, but I found enough. I am the one who raised the issue to my parents, and pointed out the law around common law marriage in our state. I didn't want to come off as greedy, but I gave them the information, asked what they wanted to do, and helped them plan how they could accomplish taking care of her during her life, but without him getting anything.

I am hoping that me being an attorney will nip a lot of the shenanigans that could be tried in the bud. There have already been some instances where I have witnessed comments about the family ranch land, which is now being leased for oil & gas royalties, and was able to set them straight about what the law actually is, so they know I cannot be bluffed. And the land was the main issue. I know my parents don't want my grandparent's farm to leave the family, and certainly not to to Mr. Felon and his equally criminal family.

 

[1st*toright]

This stuff is so complicated, and money does make people crazy! I remember a job interview (I was being interviewed) where one of the interviewers went on a rant about an unfair inheritance situation she was dealing with. Weirdest job interview ever (did not take that job). I have a friend who often complains about her and her sister being treated unfairly - her parents giving the sister money, how she should be given an equal amount etc. The friend doesn't need the money. No idea if the sister does or doesn't, but the money belongs to the parents (and they are fully competent to make decisions).

I would be more concerned with manipulation and potential abuse of a parent who is no longer fully able than the end result of who gets how much money.

My family doesn't talk about money much - we live close to my parents and they help out a lot with our kids, so they always know when we spend money on stuff - trips, cars etc. They are pretty good at keeping their thoughts to themselves, thank goodness!

 

[kymom99]

Thanks for your suggestions and insight. There is a manner for a substitute or alternate Trustee in the event I am unable or unwilling. Sister *may*not know about the guy's criminal history, and she has mainly become his sugar mama. She is desperate for companionship. I feel sorry for her. She's not wealthy, but she has a masters degree and owns a townhouse and is by far the most financially secure person he has ever known, and he seems happy to let her pay the bills while he lives there for free and blows his own money on things like guitars (while they are both unemployed).

I am an attorney, and I found his criminal history online. A search led to a mugshot which led to his arrest and court records from the county courts (pled guilty to aggravated battery with a deadly weapon, after failing to appear and having his bond revoked, and then pled guilty to a second felony for violating his probation, plus other miscellaneous lesser crime). I didn't pay for a background check, and strongly suspect there is additional criminal history out there, but I found enough. I am the one who raised the issue to my parents, and pointed out the law around common law marriage in our state. I didn't want to come off as greedy, but I gave them the information, asked what they wanted to do, and helped them plan how they could accomplish taking care of her during her life, but without him getting anything.

I am hoping that me being an attorney will nip a lot of the shenanigans that could be tried in the bud. There have already been some instances where I have witnessed comments about the family ranch land, which is now being leased for oil & gas royalties, and was able to set them straight about what the law actually is, so they know I cannot be bluffed. And the land was the main issue. I know my parents don't want my grandparent's farm to leave the family, and certainly not to to Mr. Felon and his equally criminal family.

In your case. I would watch for any evidence of criminal activity and turn him in. Since he has a history, it shouldn't be hard to get him at least partially out of her life. Probation violation, etc.

 

[hsmamato2]

Everything I have ever heard, including from financial experts, has always said if you loan money to family or friends don't expect to ever get it back and to consider it a gift. Granted all people are different but this is why in most cases I would never do it, I don't have the money to lose but I'm also not in the habit of wasting what I do have.

This. I've done it a few times (small stuff) and I never expect it back. If I did, I wouldn't lend it b/c the relationship is more important to me than the $$. And no,I don't hide money from relatives. I don't think it's healthy to do this.We may not share every detail,but we hide nothing.

 

[Nebraska_Disney]

My mother had 3 sisters and when my grandparents passed, my mother's next sister behind her was in charge of the estates. She took it upon herself to do several questionable acts with their property that directly benefited her and her kids and left everyone else out in the cold. There were other issues that developed and in the end, my mom pretty much lost her sister and don't associate with her anymore. Money does weird things to people. Instead of being "fair" and equally split things up, there is always someone who is looking to get more.

I don't expect any inheritance. My parents signed over their house to my sister and me a few years back. If they outlive all their other assets, we will need to sell it to make sure they are being cared for properly. If this does not have to happen, that will be the only inheritance I'll see. To me, that is good. It meant my parents were able to finish their lives and do what they wanted with their money. It is their money anyway, right?

My in-laws will never have anything in the end. My wife's mother and step-dad can't meet expenses currently and will have a mountain of debt. My wife's dad is much older than his current wife and I know my wife is not expecting anything to be given to her from that situation either.

As far as money and family goes, we will not give/lend/loan money of any kind to anyone. It is not good to ever start this type of activity and will typically always end badly.

 

[bluehen]

I have lived way too interesting a life. I have seen a lot of the things mentioned here. Money evokes huge emotions. Death of a parent evokes huge emotions. The inevitable intersection is way too often a disaster as the two together are definitely logarithmic. I will add a couple cautions to look for without a clue of how to handle them.

My wife's sister has always struggled. A lot of it was her own making but not all. DW and I have always been frugal (some say cheap) and have been financially secure. Sis always came to us to borrow money and we in general gave it to her. She always couched it as a loan but we rarely if ever get it back. We know it was a gift and can laugh about it and not get upset. It went from once in a lifetime (rehab for nephew) to over the years normal bills (oil delivery). Now for the cautionary part. What ended it for us was we found out from wife's brother ( always take your BIL to a beerfest to learn stuff) that she was borrowing for the same bill from both of us. If you want to help a family member do not give them the cash. Pay the bill yourself. We told her now that we are retired we can no longer help her. So now of course we get the lectures of how we should handle our money better . She even gave me a lecture once how when I shorted a stock I was doing something illegal. Can you tell she is the oldest of the siblings.

I have seen twice over the years the influence on an aged relative. In both instances a last minute change in a will benefited one sibling. In one situation (my MIL) I know the change went against everything she thought a couple years before. I have no suggestions at all how to deal with this one. I know this change was her last wishes, but also know it was a concerted lobbying campaign of the one that got the benefit. I would guess that when you know the end is coming it would be very easy to prey on emotions. In this case the benefit was far less of a problem in the family than the despicable actions of the beneficiary.

 

[wishuponastar1984]

I can't believe how many people have awful family members. I don't hide money or my spending. My sister and parents are proud of my success and don't begrudge me enjoying the fruits of my labor. As far as worrying about unfairness in inheritances, there are plenty of reasons why someone leaves more to some family members than others. Could it be that the person who was more greatly enriched was the one who actually cared for the relative who passed away? There are plenty of people who feel they are owed something yet treat their own parents like garbage. I know there are some strange people out there but you don't see that many parents who will willingly screw over one of their kids for no particular reason. My sister and I will get a nice inheritance one day and frankly if it was all left to my sister I would probably be a little hurt but I would think there would be an explanation and I am not going to stop talking to my only sister because of it. I have frequently told my Mom to spend it all and basically have the last check go to the undertaker. They earned it and I don't have any right to that money. Anything that comes my way will be appreciated but nothing is expected.

 

[LadyD]

My Dad is financially irresponsible to an extreme, and he asks those around him for money constantly and it is impossible to say when or if he will pay you the money back. He currently lives with my wife and me, and to keep him out of our finances, we have a dummy bank account and the actual bank account where all our money really lives that he has no idea about. This way when he comes to us asking to borrow money, we can show him the empty dummy bank account when he accuses us of being ungrateful (he has helped us out financially in the past, but we paid him back every penny on time according to the schedule we set out). He thinks we spend our money irresponsibly and we’re just as broke as he is, but I’ll take that over never knowing when or if I’ll get paid back.

 

[wishuponastar1984]

My Dad is financially irresponsible to an extreme, and he asks those around him for money constantly and it is impossible to say when or if he will pay you the money back. He currently lives with my wife and me, and to keep him out of our finances, we have a dummy bank account and the actual bank account where all our money really lives that he has no idea about. This way when he comes to us asking to borrow money, we can show him the empty dummy bank account when he accuses us of being ungrateful (he has helped us out financially in the past, but we paid him back every penny on time according to the schedule we set out). He thinks we spend our money irresponsibly and we’re just as broke as he is, but I’ll take that over never knowing when or if I’ll get paid back.

You are an adult and have full control of your money. No way in hell would I ever allow someone to be hall monitor and demand to see my bank statements. You alone control who you lend or give money. If I were you I would say "Dad, I am okay with you living here but my personal finances are not any of your business." End of story.

 

[CalDisneyMomof2]

I can't believe how many people have awful family members. I don't hide money or my spending. My sister and parents are proud of my success and don't begrudge me enjoying the fruits of my labor. As far as worrying about unfairness in inheritances, there are plenty of reasons why someone leaves more to some family members than others. Could it be that the person who was more greatly enriched was the one who actually cared for the relative who passed away? There are plenty of people who feel they are owed something yet treat their own parents like garbage. I know there are some strange people out there but you don't see that many parents who will willingly screw over one of their kids for no particular reason. My sister and I will get a nice inheritance one day and frankly if it was all left to my sister I would probably be a little hurt but I would think there would be an explanation and I am not going to stop talking to my only sister because of it. I have frequently told my Mom to spend it all and basically have the last check go to the undertaker. They earned it and I don't have any right to that money. Anything that comes my way will be appreciated but nothing is expected.

I feel the same way. My grandfather (Dad's dad) passed almost 4 years ago. He has 2 living children, my dad who was his best friend and my uncle who no one has spoken to in decades perhaps. I have another uncle who passed 5 1/2 years ago who has a daughter. Until right before my uncle's death, my grandfather and uncle didn't speak for about 25 years.

Now my grandmother (step but has been Grandma to me since birth and step mom to my dad since a young boy) has one living child whom she hasn't spoke to in about 10 years (drug issues etc.) and two biological grand children. My dad has 7 children.

The will states that my dad and uncle (who no one has spoken to in decades) will receive $50k each. Each grand child except for one of my Grandma's biological ones will receive $30k each (so 9 of us - 7 from my dad, 1 from my deceased uncle and 1 of my Grandma's biological). The greats get nothing.

My cousin is set to inherit millions, the $7mil home, it's contents (priceless art etc.) and her mom is set to inherit $1m soley for medical purposes. Some would complain and claim it's not fair. But to be honest, I couldn't care less. I didn't work for that money. My kids didn't work for it. My siblings didn't work for it. If anything I'm a little hurt that they would categorize my dad the same as my uncle. But, again, it's not their money to begin with.

My cousin who is inheriting the money was raised by my grandparents (drug addict mom as said earlier). While some might argue that it could have been divided a little bit more fairly while she still receives a majority, I say, it's ok - it's not MY money. Money truly is the root of all evil.

 

[wishuponastar1984]

I feel the same way. My grandfather (Dad's dad) passed almost 4 years ago. He has 2 living children, my dad who was his best friend and my uncle who no one has spoken to in decades perhaps. I have another uncle who passed 5 1/2 years ago who has a daughter. Until right before my uncle's death, my grandfather and uncle didn't speak for about 25 years.

Now my grandmother (step but has been Grandma to me since birth and step mom to my dad since a young boy) has one living child whom she hasn't spoke to in about 10 years (drug issues etc.) and two biological grand children. My dad has 7 children.

The will states that my dad and uncle (who no one has spoken to in decades) will receive $50k each. Each grand child except for one of my Grandma's biological ones will receive $30k each (so 9 of us - 7 from my dad, 1 from my deceased uncle and 1 of my Grandma's biological). The greats get nothing.

My cousin is set to inherit millions, the $7mil home, it's contents (priceless art etc.) and her mom is set to inherit $1m soley for medical purposes. Some would complain and claim it's not fair. But to be honest, I couldn't care less. I didn't work for that money. My kids didn't work for it. My siblings didn't work for it. If anything I'm a little hurt that they would categorize my dad the same as my uncle. But, again, it's not their money to begin with.

My cousin who is inheriting the money was raised by my grandparents (drug addict mom as said earlier). While some might argue that it could have been divided a little bit more fairly while she still receives a majority, I say, it's ok - it's not MY money. Money truly is the root of all evil.

Your story is a bit jumbled but if I am reading this correctly your grandfather pre-deceased your step-grandmother and his will left the majority to his wife and small amounts to his children and grandchildren. Taking care of his wife after his death is the proper thing to do, especially since it sounds like she has been his wife for what sounds like decades. The decision now is whether your step-grandmother decides to leave an inheritance in her will to her non-biological relatives by marriage. Once the money is inherited by her she is free to do with it what she chooses. I find it strange (and impossible because the estate would be probated by now) that your grandfather would write a will that cut his wife out and leave it all to a non-biological child with some future date in mind. In reality, she could live for a long time and exhaust the estate with little to go to her one biological grandchild.

 

[kymom99]

I feel the same way. My grandfather (Dad's dad) passed almost 4 years ago. He has 2 living children, my dad who was his best friend and my uncle who no one has spoken to in decades perhaps. I have another uncle who passed 5 1/2 years ago who has a daughter. Until right before my uncle's death, my grandfather and uncle didn't speak for about 25 years.

Now my grandmother (step but has been Grandma to me since birth and step mom to my dad since a young boy) has one living child whom she hasn't spoke to in about 10 years (drug issues etc.) and two biological grand children. My dad has 7 children.

The will states that my dad and uncle (who no one has spoken to in decades) will receive $50k each. Each grand child except for one of my Grandma's biological ones will receive $30k each (so 9 of us - 7 from my dad, 1 from my deceased uncle and 1 of my Grandma's biological). The greats get nothing.

My cousin is set to inherit millions, the $7mil home, it's contents (priceless art etc.) and her mom is set to inherit $1m soley for medical purposes. Some would complain and claim it's not fair. But to be honest, I couldn't care less. I didn't work for that money. My kids didn't work for it. My siblings didn't work for it. If anything I'm a little hurt that they would categorize my dad the same as my uncle. But, again, it's not their money to begin with.

My cousin who is inheriting the money was raised by my grandparents (drug addict mom as said earlier). While some might argue that it could have been divided a little bit more fairly while she still receives a majority, I say, it's ok - it's not MY money. Money truly is the root of all evil.

This is interesting to me for a different reason. My lawyer advised not to put a dollar amount on what is given to our heirs. The reason being, who knows how much will actually be there when we die? He said its more common to give percentages. Once your assets are all made liquid there's no way to know what the total will be. For instance, my husband and I own the equity in our home. I own a piece of property given by my parents when they died. We each have retirement accounts, etc. my husband has 2 kids and we have one together. Our lawyer suggested a split of 25-25-50 percent. Once my brother has everything appraised and sold, the kids will get the percent of everything combined. I have no way of knowing what that will be at this point to be able to put a dollar figure on it.

 

[LadyD]

You are an adult and have full control of your money. No way in hell would I ever allow someone to be hall monitor and demand to see my bank statements. You alone control who you lend or give money. If I were you I would say "Dad, I am okay with you living here but my personal finances are not any of your business." End of story.

That is assuming that he is a reasonable person who would accept that answer. He is not. Theoretically, any adult should be able to do as they please with their finances and people would just mind their own damn business and not say a word unless approached for advice/recommendations/etc. But people don’t work that way, and family dynamics are complicated. The path I have selected is the path of least resistance and allows me to continue to have a relationship with him. He doesn’t demand to see bank statements or monitor my bank. He wheedles and whines and begs for money. The easiest way to get him to knock it off is to show him my bank balance.

 

[Judique]

Your story is a bit jumbled but if I am reading this correctly your grandfather pre-deceased your step-grandmother and his will left the majority to his wife and small amounts to his children and grandchildren. Taking care of his wife after his death is the proper thing to do, especially since it sounds like she has been his wife for what sounds like decades. The decision now is whether your step-grandmother decides to leave an inheritance in her will to her non-biological relatives by marriage. Once the money is inherited by her she is free to do with it what she chooses. I find it strange (and impossible because the estate would be probated by now) that your grandfather would write a will that cut his wife out and leave it all to a non-biological child with some future date in mind. In reality, she could live for a long time and exhaust the estate with little to go to her one biological grandchild.

I didn't understand it quite the same way.

I'm taking 'cousin' to mean the daughter of the third son who has already passed is getting almost all of the inheritance and that $1 mil is set aside for the welfare of the step grand mother.

Perhaps Caldisneymom of 2 will pop back in and clarify?

 

[Judique]

That is assuming that he is a reasonable person who would accept that answer. He is not. Theoretically, any adult should be able to do as they please with their finances and people would just mind their own damn business and not say a word unless approached for advice/recommendations/etc. But people don’t work that way, and family dynamics are complicated. The path I have selected is the path of least resistance and allows me to continue to have a relationship with him. He doesn’t demand to see bank statements or monitor my bank. He wheedles and whines and begs for money. The easiest way to get him to knock it off is to show him my bank balance.

You have to do what works for you.

 

[CalDisneyMomof2]

Your story is a bit jumbled but if I am reading this correctly your grandfather pre-deceased your step-grandmother and his will left the majority to his wife and small amounts to his children and grandchildren. Taking care of his wife after his death is the proper thing to do, especially since it sounds like she has been his wife for what sounds like decades. The decision now is whether your step-grandmother decides to leave an inheritance in her will to her non-biological relatives by marriage. Once the money is inherited by her she is free to do with it what she chooses. I find it strange (and impossible because the estate would be probated by now) that your grandfather would write a will that cut his wife out and leave it all to a non-biological child with some future date in mind. In reality, she could live for a long time and exhaust the estate with little to go to her one biological grandchild.

Well, yes. It's left to her. It's a joint will. She will not exhaust the estate. She could live off the interest alone. She is 88 years old with many health issues. I'm afraid she doesn't have much longer to live. But this was my point. If they wanted to leave the majority to her one biological grandchild (not his) over his 8 then that's their prerogative. It's not my money. I will take my 30k and just divide amongst my children's college funds any how.

This is interesting to me for a different reason. My lawyer advised not to put a dollar amount on what is given to our heirs. The reason being, who knows how much will actually be there when we die? He said its more common to give percentages. Once your assets are all made liquid there's no way to know what the total will be. For instance, my husband and I own the equity in our home. I own a piece of property given by my parents when they died. We each have retirement accounts, etc. my husband has 2 kids and we have one together. Our lawyer suggested a split of 25-25-50 percent. Once my brother has everything appraised and sold, the kids will get the percent of everything combined. I have no way of knowing what that will be at this point to be able to put a dollar figure on it.

I can see where you're coming from with that reasoning. I think the dollar amounts they have listed are so miniscule in terms of how much they actually have that it will undoubtedly still be there. It may not even be 10% of their wealth. The grandchild receiving the majority doesn't have a dollar amount listed, just that the remainder will go to her along with the house and it's contents (which may be worth more than the rest of the estate).

 

[CalDisneyMomof2]

I didn't understand it quite the same way.

I'm taking 'cousin' to mean the daughter of the third son who has already passed is getting almost all of the inheritance and that $1 mil is set aside for the welfare of the step grand mother.

Perhaps Caldisneymom of 2 will pop back in and clarify?

Nope. The OP was correct. The granddaughter raised by my grandparents. The daughter of the deceased uncle will get the same as me and my siblings.

I only pointed out the other uncles and cousin to mention that they (the uncles who never speak to my grandmother nor spoke to my grandfather) and cousin (who doesn't/didn't even know my grandparents) will receive the same as the rest of us who have been a constant in their lives. And again, that's ok.

Oh and the million is set aside for the welfare of the daughter (who hasn't spoke to the family in 10 years) of my grandmother. Her biological daughter.

It is all confusing for most. Sorry for that. In my head it makes sense

 

[Judique]

Nope. The OP was correct. The granddaughter raised by my grandparents. The daughter of the deceased uncle will get the same as me and my siblings.

I only pointed out the other uncles and cousin to mention that they (the uncles who never speak to my grandmother nor spoke to my grandfather) and cousin (who doesn't/didn't even know my grandparents) will receive the same as the rest of us who have been a constant in their lives. And again, that's ok.

Wow! Quite a story! Thanks for clarifying!

 

[wishuponastar1984]

Nope. The OP was correct. The granddaughter raised by my grandparents. The daughter of the deceased uncle will get the same as me and my siblings.

I only pointed out the other uncles and cousin to mention that they (the uncles who never speak to my grandmother nor spoke to my grandfather) and cousin (who doesn't/didn't even know my grandparents) will receive the same as the rest of us who have been a constant in their lives. And again, that's ok.

Oh and the million is set aside for the welfare of the daughter (who hasn't spoke to the family in 10 years) of my grandmother. Her biological daughter.

It is all confusing for most. Sorry for that. In my head it makes sense

My question then is this grandchild been the one who has been caring for the grandparents? Caring for the elderly (even with great means) can be both emotionally and physically exhausting. That may be the driving factor and is worth a lot IMHO.

 

[CalDisneyMomof2]

My question then is this grandchild been the one who has been caring for the grandparents? Caring for the elderly (even with great means) can be both emotionally and physically exhausting. That may be the driving factor and is worth a lot IMHO.

No. Grandma has a live in personal assistant. Cousin does spend a lot of time with her largely in part because she was more of a mother to her than her own mother. My sister did most of the caring for them both while the cousin was away at college etc. She still does a lot as she's the closest in proximity to Grandma.