Hiding spending from Family

[Alexle2007]

I just heard on the radio this morning that 15% of all married couples have a credit card that the other spouse does not know about. It is pretty easy to set up, with getting your account and bill sent to you online with no mail. The only time you get mail, is when they send you a new card. I think the only way you could pay it though, is if you have a separate checking account.

I will admit I did this when I was planning a surprise Disney cruise for DH’s 50th birthday. DH tracks every credit card purchase so I have to open a 0% interest for a certain period of time and then gave my sister money to use her checking account for payment until DS and I finally told DH a couple of days before we left for Orlando. It was quite the hassle but so worth it for the surprise!

 

[jujubiee4]

I just heard on the radio this morning that 15% of all married couples have a credit card that the other spouse does not know about. It is pretty easy to set up, with getting your account and bill sent to you online with no mail. The only time you get mail, is when they send you a new card. I think the only way you could pay it though, is if you have a separate checking account.

This is interesting as i open cards all the time and do not need to ask permission. My husband has always said i don't care what you
open or spend long as it gets PAID. I admit i do make sure it is zero balance before the statement ends because he works in the
financial industry and will periodically run our credit . Last time he did this a few months ago and congratulated me on having an
847 credit score.

He had to have seen the 6 or so cards i opened the past 18 months and said nothing. He knows i have started
chasing miles/bonuses/points for our vacations and probably figures long as HE isn't paying it should be ok.

 

[Shanti]

I could see this... not because of the scorn i might receive but because of the 'hey, can we use your disney time share next month?'

Btw, from reading your post it sounds like your own Disney timeshare might not be getting its full use, so do you think maybe...

 

[Shanti]

Have you known anyone who hides their spending from their family, to protect their future inheritance? I’ve known a couple.

My SIL hid all Disney vacations from her Grandparents. They supposedly considered Disney a huge waste of $, so she hid the fact that they went several times. She was afraid it would affect the amount of $ they would leave her.

A good friend of my DHs. His Dad was quite thrifty, and really thought everyone should save,not spend, to the extreme. So DHs friend was afraid to tell his Das he bought a new car. When his parents came to visit, he’d hide the new car at a friend’s house. When he went to visit his parents, he drove his old car. Finally, after four years, he drove the “new” car, and told them it was a used car....which it was, by then! Lol!

In both cases, the old folks have passed away, and left a couple of million to my SIL and DHs friend.

My S.O., who has traveled all over the world (before he met me, naturally), thinks the Disney trips I buy for myself and my son are a waste. He's tired of traveling & cruising, never wants to go anywhere anymore, and thinks I shouldn't either, even though I haven't had even close to one-fourth of the travel experiences he's had. I've invited him on trips, and he usually won't go, even when it would just be him & me.

I can't hide our trips from him (probably would if I could- lol), but I don't tell him until they're relatively close, and I never discuss the prices. He's so critical, but my son and I both work very hard in our daily lives, really appreciate every aspect of the trips, and I have no debt and pay for the trips myself, so I wish he weren't so opinionated about this.

But in the end, my and my son's memories are more important than my S.O.'s criticism.

 

[Grumpy's Gal]

my brother ...,He's just one of those people--no amount is too small to grab, no low is too low to stoop to, in order to get money. The only thing that's beneath him is a steady paycheck. What's really sad is, he's north of 50 and has two small kids who can't depend on their father. And I don't hold out hope that change is possible at this point.

YES. YES. We have one of these siblings.

We are paying off our house in a few months and we have already decided to keep it just between us. We have a family member like you described. I’m sure he would be asking for money nonstop!

 

[linzjane88]

We've started keeping vacation plans under wraps. We've got good jobs and live simply otherwise - - vacations are our thing. Our lifestyle leaves us with a decent chunk of discretionary money every month. I have gotten sick of family and coworkers giving us the "your going AGAIN?" spiel and then semi jokingly imply that there's no way someone could afford it. We are on the west coast so people think traveling to Florida is this big extravagant thing to do. My grandparents think we do too much traveling, particularly to Disney, and they don't outright say it but hint that we need to more regularly attend church and focus on that.

That is why we are boarding a plane to come home from WDW as we speak and my grandparents weren't told of our plans. Unfortunately I'm not good at withholding information so my grandparents called my dad and ratted us out saying he needed to find out what we were up to. I got a call last night at Citricos
. I fessed up to my dad and he reminded me that I can tell him and he would rather know where we are at in case of emergency so that was nice.

I should add that I'm almost 30 and have been married for 10 years.

 

[AnnaS]

My DH's Grandmother did this (not split evenly). Long story short, my MIL was an only child and died 4 months before her mother did. MIL's will left everything to her mother. If GMIL died first, then MIL's $ would be split 4 ways (evenly) among her 4 children, of which DH is the oldest.

MIL died first and when GMIL died, her will left everything to her daughter, unless she was dead (which she was). If so, then the $ was to be split 45% to each of the girls and 5% to each of the boys.

Neither of my SILs have ever been able to budget $ (one currently owes us $ for living expenses while she was out of work on sick leave). DH and his brother were both married with families and successful. Therefore, the girls NEEDED it more. Of course since she had changed her will 7 months before her death and died with a cause of death of dementia, my DH would have had legal grounds to contest the will. He wouldn't do it. The girls did split a small life insurance policy 4 ways, which we used our portion of for a small trip to WDW.

I have never understood this. My mom split it all 2 ways between me and my sister.

And does anyone know what your MIL was thinking leaving it all to her mom when she had her own four children. You would think with the grandmother's age, your own kids might need it more/next in line. (Not that I am asking - just we never know the reasons behind their thinking - well some do but can't accept it - not implying you or dh .

Of course, everyone's situation is different - who knows what she was thinking when she left 45% to the girls and 5% to the boys. I know some old fashioned/people thinking (from many years ago) certain towns/traditions (say in Italy where I am from), inheritance/house are left only to the sons, etc. etc. as an example.

Under certain circumstances, if one child (and family) is struggling for whatever reason, it's nice to help out while one is alive. There are no two families alike so what works for one, not for another.....

My parents (dad passed first) so mom - left whatever she had to all the kids equally. If anything should happen to one of us, our inheritance would go to my kids an not dh.

With my in-laws - the situation was a little different. So what works/applies to one, will not be the same for another.

 

[AnnaS]

Another thought - what people will do for a dollar - even if they don't need it. Breaks families apart.

I agree with others - lending money is a gift to them. If you don't have it, can't spare it, don't do it unless you are willing to give it to them. If it works out and you get it back, beautiful!!!!

 

[disneyeveryyear]

And does anyone know what your MIL was thinking leaving it all to her mom when she had her own four children. You would think with the grandmother's age, your own kids might need it more/next in line. (Not that I am asking - just we never know the reasons behind their thinking - well some do but can't accept it - not implying you or dh .

Of course, everyone's situation is different - who knows what she was thinking when she left 45% to the girls and 5% to the boys. I know some old fashioned/people thinking (from many years ago) certain towns/traditions (say in Italy where I am from), inheritance/house are left only to the sons, etc. etc. as an example.

Under certain circumstances, if one child (and family) is struggling for whatever reason, it's nice to help out while one is alive. There are no two families alike so what works for one, not for another.....

My parents (dad passed first) so mom - left whatever she had to all the kids equally. If anything should happen to one of us, our inheritance would go to my kids an not dh.

With my in-laws - the situation was a little different. So what works/applies to one, will not be the same for another.

MIL knew she was terminal with cancer and that her mother wasn't able to care for herself, so that is why it was left first to her mother. She wanted to make sure GMIL was taken care of.

MIL had originally been given 12-18 months to live, and GMIL had decided she, herself, should go first and willed herself to die. Unfortunately, MIL died 3 months after diagnosis and 2 days after receiving a revised 6-12 month diagnosis, so GMIL didn't succeed in her quest to go first. She just felt it wasn't right to outlive your child.

Who knows what GMIL's thought process was. When her parents died, they left everything in trust to my DH's youngest sister. It was a fairly sizable trust that she blew through within 18 months of getting control of it on her 25th birthday. So GMIL knew that SIL couldn't control her money. Both of the girls learned it from their mother.

The most irritating thing is it was my DH they called when anything went wrong. If the basement was flooding at 2:00 a.m., it was a call to us, etc.

 

[pigletto]

I don’t “hide” spending from any family. However I do think since it’s my money it’s nobody’s business what I spend it on. I don’t have lengthy conversations about where we are going or what we are doing with the judgier family. It’s none of their business .. despite what they may think.
Inheritence and the division of assets frightens me on both sides of the family to be honest. I just want it to be fair. I don’t want to live with hurt or anger or resentment. I don’t want to lose people from my life. I don’t want any ugliness at all while we deal with grief. I hope above all that when the day comes we all somehow manage to escape any drama .. I have my concerns though. It just never seems to go well.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

I don't hide it but I don't gloat about it either. We don't go to Disney that often according to this board. Once every 2-3 years. But we vacation other places.

I don't tell my grandmother anything about my life. She's one of those "old school" women that thinks a woman's job is to be a mom and that is it. If I do a couples only trip, in her book, that's wrong. I mean she buys me Christmas presents that are geared towards my kids. Not gifts for myself. So you get the point. She finds out the day before I leave, over the phone, and I hang up quickly. I let her know because I live 3 blocks from her and I'm the one who runs her to the stores when she needs to go. My kids also visit her a lot so she needs to know if they won't be around because she will call them to find out.

Some of my other family just makes comments of "that must be nice" or things of that sort. It's just a differing of opinions on how to spend money. I don't care at all that my cousin buys every new gadget that comes out, Smart TV, Ipads, etc. If it's new they get it. We don't do that. I also don't have a car payment. I drive an older car.

Most of my family just tells me that I work hard and deserve to spend my money on vacations and trips. I'm an experience over things type of person. Even though I do like nice things. lol I just don't buy nice things all of the time.

 

[mco65]

I don't live close to any family... which is nice sometimes, not so nice other times. We used to live within a few miles of my wives sister and mom (Ohio) some years ago and it was drama every other freaking day... glad that is behind us! WHEW!

 

[laceltris3]

We don't hide travel plans or expenses, and while there is a big difference between the financial success of me and my sister, my parents generally treat us evenly. I am married with kids and my older sister never married (no kids) and is now living with a convicted violent felon, and neither of them have been working much for the last year or so. My parents are changing their will, which previously split things equally, due to her living situation. Namely, since they have lived together for years, the guy could make a decent claim to being a common law spouse, and he's 15 years younger than my sister, and they don't want their money going to him even if they do get married eventually. So they're setting up a trust so that my sister can use the money in her lifetime for her expenses, but it ultimately goes to the grandchildren. I'll be the trustee. She will be quite upset when she finds out. But it's their money. They can do what they want with it.

 

[AnnaS]

MIL knew she was terminal with cancer and that her mother wasn't able to care for herself, so that is why it was left first to her mother. She wanted to make sure GMIL was taken care of.

MIL had originally been given 12-18 months to live, and GMIL had decided she, herself, should go first and willed herself to die. Unfortunately, MIL died 3 months after diagnosis and 2 days after receiving a revised 6-12 month diagnosis, so GMIL didn't succeed in her quest to go first. She just felt it wasn't right to outlive your child.

Who knows what GMIL's thought process was. When her parents died, they left everything in trust to my DH's youngest sister. It was a fairly sizable trust that she blew through within 18 months of getting control of it on her 25th birthday. So GMIL knew that SIL couldn't control her money. Both of the girls learned it from their mother.

The most irritating thing is it was my DH they called when anything went wrong. If the basement was flooding at 2:00 a.m., it was a call to us, etc.

My MIL (FIL passed before her and also outlived one son) - outlived two of her sons. DH only one left now. This is why I also said - there is a reason usually for it all.

Pretty soon - sooner than later - time for dh and I to get our stuff in order......planned.....etc. etc......

 

[SoccerDogWithEars]

We tend to not tell my in-laws about vacations until they're right around the corner. When we told them we'd bought DVC, we (mainly my husband, but some to both of us) got several comments about the evils of timeshares and how it wasn't a good idea. Complete with articles clipped from magazines.

I told them we were going to London in March, thinking they'd be excited. Instead, they waited until I was gone and proceeded to lecture my husband on the importance of saving in case of emergencies.

So yeah, we don't advertise our travel to them anymore.

Neither of us are worried about inheritance....we're both only children. I already know my parents have nothing.

 

[barkley]

We don't hide travel plans or expenses, and while there is a big difference between the financial success of me and my sister, my parents generally treat us evenly. I am married with kids and my older sister never married (no kids) and is now living with a convicted violent felon, and neither of them have been working much for the last year or so. My parents are changing their will, which previously split things equally, due to her living situation. Namely, since they have lived together for years, the guy could make a decent claim to being a common law spouse, and he's 15 years younger than my sister, and they don't want their money going to him even if they do get married eventually. So they're setting up a trust so that my sister can use the money in her lifetime for her expenses, but it ultimately goes to the grandchildren. I'll be the trustee. She will be quite upset when she finds out. But it's their money. They can do what they want with it.

just as a suggestion-talk to your parents about naming an alternate trustee who has no relationship to your familial situation so that if your sister/her significant other gets threatening or dangerous with you in the administration of the trust you have the ability to hand off duties for your own protection.

I suggest this b/c my mom had thought of doing the same thing b/c of my dysfunctional (by choice) sibling. I begged her not to do so if she was going to name one of us remaining siblings to be the trustee b/c I knew how manipulative and harassing for money the one sibling could be-and had seen the outright abuse brought onto my parents my entire life because of badgering for handouts (I blame them in large part-they never said 'no', never held the person accountable so in large part they helped create 'the monster'). mom decided not to set up the trust that way, she left what she wanted to that sib-but it still wasn't enough by their standards so they made my life a living hell from the moment mom came close to death. upon mom's death I was harassed for money endlessly (despite the bulk of it being distributed as soon as the banks allowed-they do after all want to see a death certificate which doesn't just appear upon the last breath leaving someone's body) up to the point where law enforcement in 3 jurisdictions had to get involved due to threats of bodily harm against me and others in my immediate family. 3 lawyers later a sizeable chunk of what mom had wanted to distribute was eaten up in legal fees. a trust can be rock solid and as trustee you may be within every right but that doesn't mean a lawyer is going to defend that trust for free when some deadbeat goes to legal aide and gets all their expenses covered to fight every minute appropriate action you take.

I wish my mom had named someone else to deal with the stuff, someone who 'the monster' didn't know how to get to personally. it would have been well worth it for any fee associated. with a violent felon in your situation it would be especially valuable.

it's telling that several years after mom passed and I learned of that siblings death (no contact after law enforcement became involved) that my first thought was that I no longer had to fear answering phone calls from their area code.

 

[QueenIsabella]

I don’t “hide” spending from any family. However I do think since it’s my money it’s nobody’s business what I spend it on. I don’t have lengthy conversations about where we are going or what we are doing with the judgier family. It’s none of their business .. despite what they may think.
Inheritence and the division of assets frightens me on both sides of the family to be honest. I just want it to be fair. I don’t want to live with hurt or anger or resentment. I don’t want to lose people from my life. I don’t want any ugliness at all while we deal with grief. I hope above all that when the day comes we all somehow manage to escape any drama .. I have my concerns though. It just never seems to go well.

I know what you're saying here, I truly do, but your idea of what is "fair" might not be what the decedent's definition of "fair" is. I'll give you an example--my MIL died recently. She had 2 sons, and the bulk of her estate will be split 50/50--fair, right? But, there are a couple of hitches. One is, she left 529s to 2 out of 7 of her grandkids (one on each side). Our niece got more than our DD, and we have 3 yet to finish college, while this is BIL's last child to graduate. Is it fair? Similarly, MIL left a life insurance policy to her 7 grandkids. But, BIL's 3 kids get half, and our 4 kids get half. Fair?

Just so you know, it doesn't matter to DH and I if we think it's fair--it was fair in MIL's eyes. I understand her reasoning. We chose to have 4 kids, not 2 or 3 or 12. And our children will go to college, whether they have a 529 from Grandma or not. We choose not to nickel-and-dime for an exactly even portion of the estate. I mentioned my jerkface brother up-thread--I'm 100% positive he would be screaming to high heaven if he thought he was getting short-changed.

My point is, it really doesn't matter what you think is fair, or how you would divide whatever inheritance there might be. It only matters what the decedent thought was appropriate.

 

[pigletto]

I know what you're saying here, I truly do, but your idea of what is "fair" might not be what the decedent's definition of "fair" is. I'll give you an example--my MIL died recently. She had 2 sons, and the bulk of her estate will be split 50/50--fair, right? But, there are a couple of hitches. One is, she left 529s to 2 out of 7 of her grandkids (one on each side). Our niece got more than our DD, and we have 3 yet to finish college, while this is BIL's last child to graduate. Is it fair? Similarly, MIL left a life insurance policy to her 7 grandkids. But, BIL's 3 kids get half, and our 4 kids get half. Fair?

Just so you know, it doesn't matter to DH and I if we think it's fair--it was fair in MIL's eyes. I understand her reasoning. We chose to have 4 kids, not 2 or 3 or 12. And our children will go to college, whether they have a 529 from Grandma or not. We choose not to nickel-and-dime for an exactly even portion of the estate. I mentioned my jerkface brother up-thread--I'm 100% positive he would be screaming to high heaven if he thought he was getting short-changed.

My point is, it really doesn't matter what you think is fair, or how you would divide whatever inheritance there might be. It only matters what the decedent thought was appropriate.

I completely see your point and it gave me much to ponder. Thank you . I was thinking more along the lines of “Decendent gives sibling A 80% of the estate because she dragged decedent to change it when they were elederly and easily influenced”. I guess I just want it to be what my parents or my inlaws wanted because it’s theirs and theirs alone to decide. I worry about manipulation more than anything. Although to be honest, it doesn’t cross my mind too often because we are pretty far out from any such event I hope.

 

[afan]

I completely see your point and it gave me much to ponder. Thank you . I was thinking more along the lines of “Decendent gives sibling A 80% of the estate because she dragged decedent to change it when they were elederly and easily influenced”. I guess I just want it to be what my parents or my inlaws wanted because it’s theirs and theirs alone to decide. I worry about manipulation more than anything. Although to be honest, it doesn’t cross my mind too often because we are pretty far out from any such event I hope.

I think there's something to be said for having copies of things. When my mom and step dad set up their will and living wills, my mom made sure I had copies of what I would need and that I understood what had be set out, partly because I was made executor and party because I'm her only child.

On the flip side, my dad had gotten information from me when he was setting up a life insurance policy and made sure that I knew it was to go to me and then to his second wife. He sent me copies of everything I would need. I found out a couple years after that, after he passed and I called, that it had all been changed. Again, only child, however he had parkinson's and dementia. I have no idea why or when it was changed because I was never told. It wasn't much, I think it was about 2k, but the money wasn't what upset me, calling and finding out it had been changed was a slap in the face, that no one felt the need to tell me. That's what makes me wonder when it was actually done.

 

[QueenIsabella]

I completely see your point and it gave me much to ponder. Thank you . I was thinking more along the lines of “Decendent gives sibling A 80% of the estate because she dragged decedent to change it when they were elederly and easily influenced”. I guess I just want it to be what my parents or my inlaws wanted because it’s theirs and theirs alone to decide. I worry about manipulation more than anything. Although to be honest, it doesn’t cross my mind too often because we are pretty far out from any such event I hope.

That can and DOES happen, so it's a valid concern. With my own mom, she had mobility issues, then became legally blind, then finally got dementia, which is what killed her. For years, my sister was her primary caregiver, bringing her food, taking her to the doctor, and so forth. I wouldn't have minded if Sis inherited more, since she did so much work, but Sis is honest as you can get, she was happy with her 1/4. Fortunately, by the time Mom started deteriorating, Jerkface Brother wasn't living in the area--she would have been easy pickings for a guy like him. As it was, he tried to convince us siblings to have Mom declared incompetent, so we could take her house--a good 10 years before she started to go downhill.