Here's my humble opinion...

Rich/Biermugg/Doc- I agree that DVC is a significant market for the WDW parks. We maybe only 2%, but what other groups make up that large a number AND are so easy for them to find and track?

I'm not ready to say we 'should' get better discounts, or that Disney 'needs' to offer me more. But its definitely something I believe they check in on now and again, and it may one day become profitable for them to alter their strategy. But for now, I'm still a happy camper.

On the question of which passes, I think Pam is probably right when she says many DVC'ers migrate to the APs. Of course some are AP people to begin with. But those who are like us, who have to travel a long distance to get to WDW, didn't have APs when we bought. We are now DVC'ers, but still don't want to or can't afford to pay the airfare on a frequent basis. So our WDW vists will become longer, like our two week trip planned later this year. Now, APs look like a good deal for us...
 
I agree that DVC is a significant market for the WDW parks.

I don't really think of DVC as a market for anything. I think it is logical to assume that guests at the DVC resorts (members or otherwise) will go to the theme parks, but I also think it's logical to assume that most guests, even staying staying off-site in the area, will go to the theme parks.

While the free passes gave those DVC members a feel for going to the parks on a daily basis without admission expense, Disney knows that the average guest stays in a WDW resort for x# days and enters a Disney theme park x-y# days per year. The DVC pass program was not a discount offered by the theme parks, it was an incentive, paid for by DVD to sell timeshares. It was NOT negotiated by DVC, it was paid for by DVD.

The currently negotiated DVC discount for the UMP is likely designed to entice DVC members to enjoy the parks for all x# days, instead of the x-y# days. At this point in time the UMP is what the theme parks hope we will purchase instead of hoppers- thus the discount.

I usually think of DVC only as a timeshare- located in a very special place.
 
Originally posted by WebmasterDoc

I usually think of DVC only as a timeshare- located in a very special place.
Amen to that, Doc.

I think since we recently joined, this issue is not as sensitive to us. When we decided to join, we knew there were no great discounts on admission and joined anyway.

Doc...your simple phrase eloquently expresses my feelings as well.
 
I wonder if DVD paid the rack rate for all those free annual passes at the beginning of DVC, or did Disney offer DVD a discounted AP rate because DVD/DVC was giving the theme parks what they wanted---DVC guests???? If so, isn't the same true today??
 

I am just curious, and have a little math that may be incorrect but I hope people can help me fill in the right numbers. I understand that the largest group of people that belong to the DVC are Florida Residents. Is this correct? I also have heard this number is somewhere around 40% but that seems kinda high to me. If this is true then 40% belong to a group that already get a good discount. That leaves 60%. I am going to use the number 60,000 people because I know a lot of people have multiple contracts, I own three. That leaves about 36,000 people who are not eligible for the Florida Resident discount. I don't know about how many people trade out but if it is 5% of the total that would be approximately 1,800 more people who would not use passes that year. That leaves about 34,200 people who would benefit from a better discount. The benefit from having a florida discount on an AP is $63.60 for adults and $54.06 for kids. If half the people are kids and half adults, that comes to a total of $2,011,986 annually for a discount. Why would they want to discount 2 million dollars if they don't have to? On the flipside to that question, if each person that went there spent an average of $600 in the parks (including passes) that's $20,520,000. That's a 10% discount on the total $ spent while on vacation. The parks don't need to give this 10% discount, but the total discount $ related to the total $ spent by all vacationers is very small. If they have an average attendance in all parks of 50,000 And you calculate it at $40 per person per day total ticket revenue would be $730,000,000. DVC is such a small amount of the dollars spent, who cares about giving us a discount, certainly not Disney who would look at it as giving away $ 2 million for nothing. Members couldn't spend enough money to make up for that $2 million discount. If the bottom line profit is 25% for every dollar spent ( high figure) DVC members would have to spend an extra $8 million to make up for the discount. That probably not too likely that people would spend an extra $200 for the $50 discount they would give away.

Why?
 
Kick it Up....

Your figures are pretty far off. The latest data I have is from VM, vol 9, from year 2000, but at that time Florida was the 3rd largest group, behind NY, and NJ.

I would presume the ratios today would still be similar to what they were in 2000.

In 2000 Florida had 3777 of 45434 memberships, or 8.3%

New York had 11.2%, New Jersey had 9.6%, and if you add all foreign countries (77 of them), they represent 4059 members, or 8.9%, putting Florida more in 4th place. Followed by PA, IL, MA, MI, OH and so on.

Since your figures were based on 40%, which was a 481% error, I'm afraid your calculations are extremely off.

Also, I'm not sure all FL residents would necessarily buy AP's. Some places in FL are still pretty far from WDW, and if a FL resident has enough points to go 1-week a year, and expects to spend maybe 3-4 days in the park during their trip, then even a FL discounted AP would not make sense for them.

For the 60,000 contracts out there, we might make some deductions. Many contracts are small (150 points), while others are large (500-600). For now let's just think of a 600 point member is the same as two 300 point members. (That helps explain the difference between 60,000 contracts and 48,000 individual members).

Now using some very loose logic, we might estimate an average is 300 points. This will approximately get a 1-B/R at BWV mid-season for 9 nights. (309 points). So if these 60,000 contracts average a 4-person family spending 9 days at WDW a year, that's a almost 2.2 million person-days a year, or almost 6000 people/day who are staying at a DVC resort. (Yes, many are at VB or HH, and the average family could be 3 people, or 5 people, who knows. And maybe mid-season doesn't accurately reflect the total number of days a year the average membership has. That said, let's just go with these figures for illustrative purposes)

Now, if everyone averaged 4-5 park days out of their 9-days there, no one would buy an AP. But the cost of 5-days is pretty close to the cost of an AP, so Disney is getting almost as much as they would have had they all bought AP's. BUT....these same people, spent maybe 5 days out of 9 actually in the parks. Had they gone 8-days (allow one day travel check-in/check-out), that would represent 6000 people a day for 3-days that the theme parks would increase. 6000 people can purchase a lot of food and souveniours.

If the Disney theme parks offered DVC members a discounted AP similar to FL residents, their income from tickets might be almost a wash from what they currently get, (comparing a discounted AP to other 4-5 day passes), but they might get a lot more people-park-days with their resulting in-park purchases.

Yes, as everyone has said, Disney operates on profit. But there are two kinds of profits - Short term, and Long term. You'll find many testimonials on this board of DVC members changing and reducing the number of park-days they spend while at DVC. Those buying regular AP's (myself included), will do so only every other year or so, and going to other Orlando attractions during the off years. This while still staying on Disney property. Those years, Disney looses everything, gaining no park admissions or in-park sales at all.

Long term, Disney will want to maintain high park usage from DVC members, and not let them start to make a habit of just using DVC as their lodging, but rather keeping DVC as a part of the entire WDW experience.

THAT is why it would make good business sense! Not because of goodwill, not because of being expected, not because they're Disney and should do nice things, but because in the long term it will increase profitability, while in the short term probably not hurting total revenues that much.

Most DVC sales contracts are still young, probably within the last 3-4 years. So far, most members still want to do the parks as much as possible. As time goes by, they'll taper back, start doing more things outside of WDW. This is where the danger lies to the Park management, in losing these highly Disney motivated members. They must recognize that eventually, and offer incentives to keep them in the parks.

DISCLAIMER: Yes, except for the year 2000 figures, everything else is pure speculation. Disney is the only one who can ascertain exact figures. But if I were theme park management, the thought of losing 6000 people a day who are staying on site, and not going into the theme parks, would definitely scare me. And that's exactly what will happen as members change from 4-5 park days per year, down to 3-4 days/year, then 2-3 days/year.

Bottom Line, Disney can sell a 5-day hopper pass for $230, or try to entice a DVC member to buy an AP for $269 (FL resident renewal rate) and try to get them to spend 8-days or so in the park instead of 5. (The first year AP at $306 gives Disney even more profit), and assuming most would renew, they'd still make $39 more a year than selling the hopper. This then would offset some of the loss from those DVC members currently buying the non-Florida AP's who would benefit from a FL AP rate.

Similar comparisons can be made between Hopper-plus tickets and PAP's.
All in MHO...:)
 
I wonder if DVD paid the rack rate for all those free annual passes at the beginning of DVC, or did Disney offer DVD a discounted AP rate

The passes were NOT AP's, they were LOS- good only for the number of nights stayed using points and for 1/2 the occupancy rate of the room type. A family of 4, staying in a Studio or 1BR received 2 passes for their stay.

I was told that they cost DVD a flat rate (~$35 in 1991) for each day available on the pass- whether they were used or not. For some member's usage, an AP at rack rate would have cost DVD less than the LOS provided in the program.
 
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since we're all guessing at numbers....

In a nut shell, they have the actual facts with limited assumptions and i'd say it's a safe bet that they due this type of equation. And so far they calculated it will cost them more then they will make.

I think most see that at some point they will need to give better discounts in order to make more money. The only issue really is at what point to they do it. Some say right now. We're always told theat american corps. only look at current profits, so that would seem to point to a time farther down the road when members 'mature' more into other persuits.

Personally i think right now is a little early from a math perspective, but we can only hope that they arent 'penny smart and pound foolish' and wait till the last minute.
 















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