Here's my humble opinion...

[Muushka]

It is so true that it is a business decision for WDW to charge high prices for their park admissions. It was a business decision for them to change their AP renewal policy. But when a customer decides to not purchase their product any more because it is too expensive, that too is a business decision.

When I go into the grocery store to buy milk and I see it at 2.99 a gallon, I do not go up the the manager and tell him that I shop there all the time and therefore the milk should be only $2.29 for me. I simply go to the store that has it for $2.29 (please don't give the argument that milk is milk but USF/IOA is not Disney, I just like to visit "a" park that I can have fun at). It is the same thing at WDW. I don't understand why some Disney folks take this so personally!

I do not expect Disney to give DVC a discount on the AP or whatever. I have no idea how they make their decisions.
I only know how to make business decisions for myself.

 

[Richyams]

I even have Florida Residents Passes for my wife, daughter and self. THis last trip we had guests and more relatives staying in a different unit on their own points. Not one of them felt that the UMP was even worth consideration. We were all together only once in the WDW parks for a meal. We were all together for at least five meals at US/IOA. Proces are just so much more reasonable there.

During our six stays with free passas, and it was only 6
passes per unit, and we often had kids to young for pass use and/or people staying on other units without passes, it was enough where during all that time, we only spent two days outside of the parks during that time. The "Golden Handcuffs" worked spectacularly.

I don't think they need to go to free passes, but they do need to do something substantial to change our habits back to where they were.

 

[PamOKW]

I think that a test discount program for DVC members, or a meaningful "DVC pass" is needed. Something that can provide them with a way out and does not hurt the perceived value of the admission. That is what will be successful in the long run.

Sounds like you are thinking very much along the lines of DVC. They did, in fact, create an exclusive DVC pass. Many on these boards do not feel it offers enough value but they did make an attempt.

Hmmm....your name is "Kick It Up A Notch"....you own a restaurant....you have a Massachusetts location....WELCOME EMERIL!

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

Pam....The special pass your talking about is that 5 hoppers for the price of 4 "thingy". What a joke that is. Disney makes up any discount they give you when you give them all the pass money upfront. You lose 3 years of investment income from that money, and Disney gains it. Also, Disney gains any unused days as they expire each year.

Kick it up....I would eat at your restaurant anytime. I'm sure your regular customers appreciate your gestures. They will also be less likely to be crabby complainers the next time something about their meal isn't right. By the way, How would those same customers feel if you told them you appreciate their business so much, if they pay for 4 entrees now, you'll give them five entrees 1/yr over the next 5 years, but no doggie bags for the leftovers.

 

[PKS44]

Florida residents discounts, USF/IOA discounts...are not for loyalty, they are not owed anyone they are a business decision to increase revenue. Floridians will not come as often as THEY CAN without a discount...with a discount they come more and spend more than the discount costs the provider..if they don't they need to end those discounts...USF and IOA and other places are not discounting to be nice THEY NEED MORE BUSINESS! Until recently WDW did not need more business. They will have to think about how their old ways will work in the current economy and the future.

One thing I would note is that the NUMBER 1 visited theme park in the world (and very profitable also we are told) is Tokyo Disneyland--there they offer three different levels of admission from full unlimited use of the park, to single rides to no rides just shopping eating, looking...

Something for USA Disney to consider...

Paul

 

[perdidobay]

I do not expect DVC membership to get me any freebies or discounts...I do expect to get the same great Disney service (excepting daily housekeeping of course) that any non-DVC resort guest would recieve. The added costs of all the small freebies would add to my dues and I want them to stay low.
I would rather do this (and I have) - buy a DC membership to recieve a discount on admissions, and forgo hoping for any perks such as gifts or cards on special days such as birthdays and arrange for these things myself.
I bought DVC to get great accommodations at a better price and as a future hedge against inflation, no more, no less.
However, if there is a DVC social on my cruise next month, I wil attend
by the way, as far as loyalty goes, Disney gets it and keeps it by having higher service and quality standards than other companies. When that goes, then my loyalty to them goes too.

 

[mikek]

i'd love a discount too, but i just see them doing it for any logical business reason.

Kick it up a notch!- I think you are very wise for doing what you do. But i dont think it is the same situation as DVC. First everyone needs to realize that disney is a pile of divisions and each one has to justify its financial shape. Imagine Emeril's has 2 seperate parts, a restaurant which doesnt sell dessert and an ice cream bar for deserts- now the restaurant has customers who basically paid in advance for 40-50 years of meals. Who is more likely to give out the discounts- the restaurant manger who knows he has the customers money or the desert bar manager who is still working for his money?

THat's the case with disney- DVC has out money and has no good reason (except to be nice folks) to give us anything. THey might try to talk the theme park manager into helping out his customers but that's about it.

Apparently the theme park manager doesnt think he even needs to entice us any more. I suppose he figures we're all going there now anyhow. That's the guy who needs to be 'straightened out'. So we need to make him (or her) realize that we scoot on over to IOA or other places outside of the World.

Also I have to say though i dont think they seperate us (DVC) out, Disney in general does a great job of the occaisional, random 'free desert'. Most everyone has a story or heard a story of a Cast member giving away something to keep up 'the magic', weather it be a free desert, or flowers, or a bottle of champaign , or a free entry pass, or a free night or upgrade, etc.

 

[PamOKW]

Johnnie, I agree that the Magical Pass is pretty useless. However, it does fit the criteria of being a pass developed only for DVC members. No one else can feel slighted that we are getting a different price on a regularly offered pass. (Of course, no one else would want the pass either.)

 

[Terry S]

I have been reading this post as well as the other one for awhile and had to put in my 2 cents for whatever it is worth.

First of all I don't think people should be getting so upset over someone who was just giving their opinion. I am pretty sure if DVC and/or Disney decided to give a free/better discounted pass to DVC members that no one would turn it down. Although all of the people who responded that DVC and/or Disney should not give the free/better discounted pass, feel free to turn it down and pay full price, if and when it happens, if it makes you feel better. I sure won't.

Also, just a side note on the car purchase thing. When I purchase my car I do receive a coupon book for a few free oil changes and a few other maintenace items free, the dealer does not have to do this, it is a "goowill" thing. Also I purchase the car "A" plan which means there is no dealing, it is a set price set by Ford for employees so the coupon book is not worked into the price either.

 

[mikek]

Terry-

I agree with you- funny how people seem to get angry about either point of view. I dont think they will offer much more by way of discounts, but would definately enjoy them if they happened.

But as far as your free coupon book- the dealer isnt being a swell guy here either. They hope to get you into their service bays rather then run down to the jiffy lube for your oil changes. If they give you a couple free ones, they hope you like their service and continue to use it, maybe you'll feel guilty about accepting a couple free oil changes so you pay for a few more after your free ones are used up, or maybe when you show up to get oil changes they find other work that needs to be done that they can make money on.

Very few (if any) freebies are given by any business unless they think it will help the bottom line at some point (well at least the ones that stay in business). Even 'good will' items are given in the hope that you come back yourself or maybe tell your friends how swell the business was. It costs many times more to woo a new customer than to keep an old one. So sometimes we get thrown a bone (loyalty discounts) to continue being good little customers since it's cheaper to spend a little keeping old customers than attracting new. Some think these are smart for Disney to do this for us DVC folks. I think in general it's a given that it makes sense to spend a little to keep the people happy rather than need to find new. But again Disney seems to believe they have us hooked for 40 more years without lifting a finger. Untill people start selling alot, or they sense that we spend more time away from the parks, they arent going to get off their duffs. Since i dont think the mass selling exodus is going to happen anytime soon, keep up the posts about going to IOA....

 

[PKS44]

Terry S wrote: "First of all I don't think people should be getting so upset over someone who was just giving their opinion. I am pretty sure if DVC and/or Disney decided to give a free/better discounted pass to DVC members that no one would turn it down. Although all of the people who responded that DVC and/or Disney should not give the free/better discounted pass, feel free to turn it down and pay full price, if and when it happens, if it makes you feel better. I sure won't. "


What gets me riled in these posts is not that I don't agree with someone's opinion, it is the complete misrepresentation of what my or someone else's opinion is...not one person here has ever said they would turn down a discount. No one here has said what Disney SHOULD or should not do about discounts except that they should not ignore sound business policy to do it. What I and others have said is that no one DESERVES a discount. The use of the word deserves is wrong. This attitude of entitlement is what offends me. It is an attitude not unique to this question. I would hope that those who support our system of equality for all and who believe in the right to pursue happiness in a free and open market would be similarly irked by those who feel they are entitled to special treatment, regardless of profit consequences. If you want to argue that Disney will come out ahead (MORE Profitable not more popular) by offering a discount, that is a legitimate basis for an argument. If, as seems to be the case of many posts, you want to argue Disney should accept less overall profit to be nice to loyal customers, or that they make too much money anyway, or any of that nonsense, that is aggravating. It is a fundamental issue of understanding how free enterprise works. We all are looking out for our own bottom line, why should Disney be any different?

Paul

 

[downontheBW]

I don't think I "deserve" any discounts and my WDW vacations are probably very different from most other DVCers. For people like me, Disney would be smart to give me an incentive to go the parks. Since our kids are in college, our last few trips have been just my DH and myself. We don't go on the rides, we enjoy the parks mostly for shopping and dinners. Of course that will change as our family changes and we bring the extended family in future years.

But for now, I would love to visit the parks more but I don't like to pay $50 a piece when the main reason for the park visit is dinner. Therefore, we go to the parks sparingly. On our last three trips, we spent a total of 2 days at the Disney parks and one day a Sea World. If Disney had a more attractive price structure for folks like us, they would be ahead dollarwise as we would spend time and money at the parks.

Last week we were at OKW for 3 nights. We went to PI on the first night and expected to spend the $21 for the one night but they had a special: for an extra $5, we could go for 5 nights. What a deal! We went all 3 nights and spent plenty on snacks and drinks plus a souvenier or two. We never would have spent another $21 for a second night. Who's ahead? I'd guess that both parties are. We're happy and Disney has more of our money. Disney, are you listening? Are any other DVCers like us?

 

[raidermatt]

Disney has never been a big discounter. Sure, there's the occasional deal, such as the military deal right now, and the early DVC discounts. But they have NEVER used discounts on any kind of large scale to build loyalty. Yet they have the most loyal following of any large entertainment company in the world.

Do we really think that 20 years ago, frequent visitors didn't wish they could get more discounts? Of course they did. And there were always some who decided to go to a less expensive product. Yet Disney continued to gain the loyalty of far more people than it lost.

Now, DVC continues to sell like hotcakes, even in tough economic times. Until the recession hit, record crowds were attending Disney parks. Apparently, for every customer angry over the price, several more decided to start paying it.

Given all of this, how in the world can we say Disney "should" increase their discounting to increase loyalty? Lowering prices, even for frequent customers, does not create loyalty to a company. It merely attracts customers who are motivated by price.

Disney does not build loyaty through discounts. They build it by offering a product that keeps people coming back, even if it costs more. That has always been their strategy, and it has worked. Why in the world would they want to change it? If the strategy begins to fail, rest assured they will start making changes. But again, loyalty built through price discounts lasts as long as the discounts do.

 

[dvc_john]

"Disney has never been a big discounter. Sure, there's the occasional deal, such as the military deal right now, and the early DVC discounts. But they have NEVER used discounts on any kind of large scale..."

Florida Resident
Disney Club
Military
Civil Service
AAA
Corporate
Conventions
Canadian
British

 

[raidermatt]

John- You've done an excellent job of pointing out some specialized discounts that Disney offers to markets if feels it needs to. But what exactly are you trying to say? That Disney IS a big discounter?

Disney charges a higher price for its product than its competitors and offers fewer discounts. If that were not true, we wouldn't have so many people concerned with this issue.

Again, Disney does not discount just for the sake of discounting. They never have. They discount only if they have to in order to stay competitive, or if they see it as financially profitable to them down the line.

They are not witholding discounts because they want to shaft us. They just don't see the need as long as DVC is selling, and enough of our vacation dollars are being spent on-site.

 

[SnowWitch]

First let me state "I do NOT feel any entitlement!" We have only been part of DVC for 2 years and we were very clear when we purchased that there were very limited discount ticket options ie. Legnth of stay pass (or whatever they are calling it these days) We have visited Disneys themeparks so much we tend to visit other non Disney places now. I love Disney but I have to agree with others about the admission cost, its excessive. I'm not going to play $50 to run into a park for a few hours for a meal!!! If Disney did offer a better park incentive to DVCer's they might dare I say profit from it. I think Disney thinks that DVCer's are such die hard loyal fans they will pay without a Disney discount and most do and apparently smile while doing it. And thats fine but we just don't frequent the parks the way we used to, I don't view giving Disney $200 for admission and another $100 plus for a meal in a theme park a favor from Disney!

 

[raidermatt]

SnowWitch- You make some valid points. You're comment about admission being excessive, however, is purely a matter of opinion. True, its an opinion held by many, but it has been held by many for years. Yet Disney's attendance rises. So until a higher percentage feel its excessive and don't go, it won't change. But this has been the case for a long time, and it hasn't changed, so I wouldn't hold my breath...

As for DVC discounts, once again, its a matter of numbers. There will alwasy be members that feel the price is too high. But until Disney sees a drop in spending inside the parks from us, it won't change. My personal opinion is that its a possibility, but again, I wouldn't hold my breath...

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

Disney has been deeply discounting many of their room rates long before 9/11. We booked (in the spring) Poly concierge for a little over $200/night for a Sept stay. So recently, non-DVCers (and a few DVCer) have saved a lot on their vacation costs during these slow economic times. On the other hand, most DVCers have benefited nothing from Disneys recent discounting pattern.

Obviously, just getting you on the property (by offering a big room discount) guarantees Disney more profit (as opposed to giving an admission discount that could benefit someone who is staying offsite or at DVC). Disney, I believe takes DVCers for granted and figures that they need not provide any incentives to a "captive audience".

IMO, Disney needs to look at DVC members as less of a "captive audience". They may want to consider how to better market the many non-lodging "Disney expenses" to DVC members. After all, during a slow economy, many DVCers may need some "encouragement" to visit the parks. We plan on vacationing, but NOT visiting the parks as admissions are too high. A decent discount may change our minds. Otherwise, USF (and their big discount) may be welcoming us home this year.

 

[PKS44]

When I pay $50 to get in a park, you can be sure that I plan to be in a park for most of the operating hours. I have no idea how many people feel the same, but I suspect it is most. Few will only go for a few hours at those rates. That is why Disney gives a special break to conventioneers who are in meetings alot of the day. They can get special after 3pm after 4pm and after 5 pm passes that are discounted. Otherwise that captive audience would not go into the parks. As for the room discounts this year- DVC members already got their room discount over the next 40+ years no matter what the economy does to room rates...All of us are telling Disney how to market their parks like we know what will or won't work for them. I have my own ideas and I definitely have my doubts about some of Disney's marketing strategies.(Emperor's New Groove was a fun little movie, but that title was a stupid choice and I suspect led to the lack of big audience for that film). Tokyo Disney is flourishing and thriving in the midst of a disastrous Japanese economy over the last 7 years...maybe their 3 tiered admissions policy is part of the reason...I encourage everyone to spend you time and money as you see fit and let Disney do the same without us whining about it.

Paul

 

[raidermatt]

Johnnie- I should have been more specific with regards to my discounting comments. I was referring to theme parks. I agree, Disney does do more discounting with their room rates, and that's do to their being more competition. Even so, they do not discount as deeply as most of the other hotels in the areas around their parks.

I believe you're right, that Disney does not discount DVC park admissions because of the captive audience theory. However, I'm also pretty sure that they don't just base this on somebody's opinion, but they actually track such things. Should the numbers go against this theory, say because of competition from Universal, I'm sure they will react accordingly. If the numbers continue to support the theory, discounts will remain a dream.

True, during a slow economy, Disney needs more people in the parks, but doing this through discounting is risky, and can be short-sighted. Why? Chances are very good that the economy will hit bottom within the next 3-6 months (unless it already has), and will then begin to improve, until the recession officially ends in a year (?) or so. Most people realize that gate discounts for residents, for example, are not guaranteed, and can fall by the wayside at anytime. DVC'ers, however, don't take things so lightly when a benefit is taken away. Doesn't matter that it was never promised, or wasn't in the contract. DVC'ers will still be angry. Look how angry some are now, even though there haven't been park discounts for years. Giving a benefit for a year, until things get better, would only serve to make many feel like Disney only wants to help them when Disney needs help, creating a backlash when the policy is reversed and parks are full.

Again, not saying that discounts will never happen, just explaining why they haven't, and why it MAY never change.