Help with son who spends more than he makes

[PlutoPony]

Wow posters are pretty unanimous in tone and response. That doesn't happen often here. With no recent response by the OP, am thinking we won't hear an update.

 

[Judique]

I created a new account just for privacy but I've been a DIS member for many years. We have a son living at home who graduated from auto mechanic school in June. He has always worked and started working full time the day after he graduated. He doesn't make much and lives at home. The problem is he always spends more than he makes. He spends tons of money on gas because he likes to drive around, on food, on his car, and other things. He will find ways to use things like PayPal or Game Stop credit to buy things but won't have the money to pay it off and then will get letters from creditors. When we talk to him he basically says he just can't help himself. So we have been trying to make things less comfortable for him at home to try to get him to curb his spending. Right now we pay for his car insurance & phone. He has to have the car for work and needs the phone in case his boss needs him to come in etc. We turned off the internet on his phone but we are having trouble coming up with other ways to get the lightbulb to turn on so he is better about spending. We do charge him "rent" which in reality we put away for him because he has zero savings. He was good about giving us the money but then had some car repair expenses and missed a few payments. We worry about his credit and we did recently pay off his $400 balance on the Game Stop bill because it was about to go to collections. He won't even sit down to discuss money with us. We are super good with money and try to give him advice but he is extremely resistant. He is impulsive with spending.

So I'm looking for advice on how to make him a little less comfortable at home so he feels like he wants to pay us for the bills we laid out money for and his "rent" so he can get XYZ back. I'm doubt turning off his internet on the phone will be enough. We could say no more friends over. I'm not sure what else to do. Any ideas? Thanks in advance.

Not sure if someone said this, but stop paying for the phone immediately. When it goes dead, it will be paid by him.

Next, insist on his rent. Ask for a direct deposit to your account from his pay. Tell him the alternative is that he moves out.

Do you actually own/have your name on his car? Is that why you do the insurance? If not, since he is paying car through his employer, move the insurance there also. If employer still owns the car he won't want it uninsured.

Your son is pretty young at 21. You can help him by lowering the rent to a reasonable portion of his earnings. $400 may be too much. My number for my kids was $250 - i didn't need the money and it was just enough to irritate them and make them want out.

Do NOT pay his bills, especially for gaming - unless you still want him there when he's 35.

His credit is his problem. Let it go. It can be repaired.

 

[hsmamato2]

My number for my kids was $250 - i didn't need the money and it was just enough to irritate them and make them want out.
Do NOT pay his bills

this sounds EXACTLY like me (pretty constant with my YA ds in the past few years) we went through it all, from the 'everyone else's parents are funding their lifestyle' to 'I think my phone might get shut off today, I can't text you'..... to 'WHY does a parent charge rent to a child???'
Why? The above pp exactly. As my sweet 'child' pointed out, 'I can pay rent anywhere and not have a headache!'...... yup! (they're always our 'babies',just not literally lol)

 

[pigletto]

Your son is pretty young at 21. You can help him by lowering the rent to a reasonable portion of his earnings. $400 may be too much. My number for my kids was $250 - i didn't need the money and it was just enough to irritate them and make them want out.

This made me laugh out loud. AND it went in my back pocket for later should the need ever arise

 

[kandb]

OP-sorry for the troubles you are going thru. To all the posters who are just saying, throw him out of the house and let him fail, that is a lot easier said then done. It is very hard for a parent to watch their children make bad decisions and then not try to help them. OP, your boy sounds like a good kid and he will mature and get it together, maybe not help him as much. Good luck!

 

[SC Minnie]

He needs to start learning the lesson of needs and wants. Phone/Car/Shelter are needs, GameStop and fast food are wants.

You need to make him sit down and have a 'come to Jesus' meeting with him. Stop paying his bills. Stop bailing him out when you know he should have the money. If he has a big unexpected bill for car repair or something, I agree with others- float him a loan. You are making it way to comfortable for him. It may come down to you have to let him fail. Maybe a few small failures will make him wake up.

 

[crisi]

OP-sorry for the troubles you are going thru. To all the posters who are just saying, throw him out of the house and let him fail, that is a lot easier said then done. It is very hard for a parent to watch their children make bad decisions and then not try to help them. OP, your boy sounds like a good kid and he will mature and get it together, maybe not help him as much. Good luck!

Yep it is. But its part of your job as a parent. Because if you don't let them fail a little while they still do have the safety net of mom and dad (Mom, you were right, can I move back home until I get my finances straightened out?) they eventually won't have that safety net. You can't let your adult children move into Senior Housing with you.

My sister in law took her son down to the homeless shelter and dropped him off when he wasn't following the household rules as a young adult. He's in his mid-20s and still lives at home, but he has pretty serious Aspergers and may not ever be really independent. She actually had to do it twice - the second time there weren't any beds in the shelter, so she took him home and put him in the garage with an electric heater, a camp cot, and a sleeping bag and said "you can sleep here." Yep, that's right, she tough loved her disabled son into following the household rules and getting a job. Her kid is better for it, and so is her marriage and her home life - plus, she is a lot less worried about what will happen to him when she can't support him any longer. He may end up needing services, but he has now shown he can hold a full time low skill job.

 

[Maxpowers]

I'm with the crash and burn crowd. Sometimes it takes failing really hard to make it sink it that it's up to you to change it. I speak from personal experience, it's hard to grow personally, when things are working out okay (in your son's case his bills are getting paid for etc). Like they always say on that Intervention show, his problems aren't his problems right now, he's made them your problems. You need to make them his problems again.

With all that said, it's easier said then done for sure. My kids are much smaller, so I don't have to worry about this yet.

 

[morgan98]

I am very much in the camp of making him start to pay for his own insurance, cell phone, etc. immediately and stop worrying about if he pays his other obligations timely. He is an adult and should be treated as such. Taking his credit card and making purchases on it in order to help him establish a credit score is way micromanaging.

We actually have a 21 year old niece going through something similar, so we are familiar with the stories. I agree with helping him come up with a plan. Although many are saying he is only 21, he is 21 with a "career." In other words, he has finished his training program and is now working. He needs to come up with a plan to become self sufficient and to not rely on the OP to pay his bills for him. If this continue the way they are, it is very likely he will still be doing the same thing at 25, 28 or 30.

 

[barkley]

OP-sorry for the troubles you are going thru. To all the posters who are just saying, throw him out of the house and let him fail, that is a lot easier said then done. It is very hard for a parent to watch their children make bad decisions and then not try to help them. OP, your boy sounds like a good kid and he will mature and get it together, maybe not help him as much. Good luck!

it is-but it's even harder when they are much older and these bad choices/habits have become ingrained because they've never experienced the natural consequences for their decisions. better they take a couple of small dings to their credit/learn what the real cost of home/food/utilities/insurance/phone are when they are young, ideally childless and able to get on the right path (I know some grandparents of young grandkids who are now dealing w/not only worry about their sons but also the grandkids they've fathered).

You can't let your adult children move into Senior Housing with you.

WANNA BET?????? my mother (aka 'the great enabler) went through all the hassles I described earlier in this thread to try to get my brother out of her home (actually ended up selling her house thinking it would finally be a 'wake up call' for him), moved into senior housing and within a year was sneaking him in/out where he remained living off her for the final 7 years of her life (and then we had to deal with getting him out of there).

my brother was in his 60's when my mom passed-and the only sustained periods of his adult life when he wasn't living w/her, having her pay for his expenses/debts run up (she had put him on her c/c's at one point so his crappy credit history was vastly improved such he got cards w/high limits he never intended to pay) was when he was married/living with well meaning self sufficient women who bought into his 'poor me' story and thought that they could help him get back on his feet (until they got fed up with it and kicked him out-then it was back home to mom).

 

[Dakota731]

And having many friends who have been teachers for decades see this dramatic change which we now call "helicopter parenting". My neighbor teaches high school has to put all assignments online so parents can remind their kids to do their work and see what is do when. And she said she gets calls every day from parents saying "my son was confused about the project" or my daughter "had a track meet last night so she wasn't ready for the test." At what age are kids nowadays responsible for their own work? These are the same young people then who are being supported by mom until they are 35 and beyond! You are not doing your kids a favor by shielding them from responsibility and trouble from cradle until crave. You are creating lifelong babies!

 

[Pix]

Please, take the hard line sooner rather than later. He needs to face the realities of crashing and burning. And he needs to do it now while he is still a young adult and the bills are for video games and not something bigger.

I watched my parents bail out my sister quite a few times. Then she got married to a guy who is very nice, but was not any better with money. Then my niece came along. And it got even harder for my parents to avoid bailing her out of trouble, because anything that happened was now going to affect their adorable and innocent granddaughter.

Let him face the struggle now. While he is the only one he needs to take care of and there is time to learn and turn things around before a house and family come into the picture. I think it's clear to you that your advice, while loving and well-meaning, is not going to do the trick as long as you keep enabling his irresponsible behaviors.

 

[scrapquitler]

I created a new account just for privacy but I've been a DIS member for many years. We have a son living at home who graduated from auto mechanic school in June. He has always worked and started working full time the day after he graduated. He doesn't make much and lives at home. The problem is he always spends more than he makes. He spends tons of money on gas because he likes to drive around, on food, on his car, and other things. He will find ways to use things like PayPal or Game Stop credit to buy things but won't have the money to pay it off and then will get letters from creditors. When we talk to him he basically says he just can't help himself. So we have been trying to make things less comfortable for him at home to try to get him to curb his spending. Right now we pay for his car insurance & phone. He has to have the car for work and needs the phone in case his boss needs him to come in etc. We turned off the internet on his phone but we are having trouble coming up with other ways to get the lightbulb to turn on so he is better about spending. We do charge him "rent" which in reality we put away for him because he has zero savings. He was good about giving us the money but then had some car repair expenses and missed a few payments. We worry about his credit and we did recently pay off his $400 balance on the Game Stop bill because it was about to go to collections. He won't even sit down to discuss money with us. We are super good with money and try to give him advice but he is extremely resistant. He is impulsive with spending.

So I'm looking for advice on how to make him a little less comfortable at home so he feels like he wants to pay us for the bills we laid out money for and his "rent" so he can get XYZ back. I'm doubt turning off his internet on the phone will be enough. We could say no more friends over. I'm not sure what else to do. Any ideas? Thanks in advance.

I'd probably let him get those letters from the creditors. Maybe that would be a good wake up call for him. If you keep rescuing him, why would he bother to learn financial discipline?

 

[DVCcurious]

If you keep rescuing him, why would he bother to learn financial discipline?

Nice summation of pretty much everybody's responses.

Right now his immaturity is YOUR problem. He won't change until circumstances force him to change.

 

[jenniy122]

Up until about 6 months ago I was a young adult with a compulsive shopping problem. I couldn't/wouldn't change until my circumstances changed, meaning my parents stopped enabling me. They no longer pay my bills. I have moved back in with them, but I pay them reasonable rent. My credit score, which was amazing for my age from them paying my bills for 10 years, has gone down 56 points from the balance I'm carrying and paying off in tiny chunks. I'm also in therapy.

 

[disneydude365]

ok im 23 was in similar situation so my my opinion will help
paying off his gamestop bill was a mistake, i know you love your son but you're only ensuring him that if he waits long enough you will bail him out.
he needs to pay for a cell phone bill, does he need a smart phone? nope you sad in case his boss needs to call their are many go phones that are reasonable (heck even walmart straight talk has unlimited data talk and text for 45$ per month and you pay as you go).
maybe cut the internet at your house? or password lock it and charge him something to use it? (change it monthly)
and lastly he missed rents? there needs to be penalties for that i know he had unplanned car repairs but he needs to realize how grateful he should be that he has you to fall on. unlike the real world that would have evicted him

not saying anything of this negatively i just know tough love works

 

[tinkerone]

It is not what you do for your children, but what you have taught them to do for themselves that will make them successful human beings....famous quote!
stop being an enabler and allow your child to 'grow up'. he needs to take responsibility now or he never will. your choice. is that plain enough?

form the moment my children started working they were taught (told) that they needed to put 25% of their income away for a long term savings. 10% went to a gift fund so when b-days, Christmas, mother/father days came they would not be scratching their heads wondering where the money was coming from. they had to put money into charity. they had 50% of their wages that they could do what ever they wanted with. once they completed school, they had to pay rent. they were taught (told) that if they did not live at home then they would have to pay rent somewhere so get in the habit. when they moved out in their early 20's they not only had a great nest egg to put down on the house they bought but we were able to give them back the money they gave us for rent as a gift to help start their new lives.
what started to them as a horrible thing, in their minds, turned into the best thing they ever did and they have thanked us many times over.

this is not for everyone. we each do what we feel is best for our own. they need to learn how to function without someone standing over them. you need to give that opportunity to your child.

 

[Jen and Ashwin]

It is not what you do for your children, but what you have taught them to do for themselves that will make them successful human beings....famous quote!
stop being an enabler and allow your child to 'grow up'. he needs to take responsibility now or he never will. your choice. is that plain enough?

form the moment my children started working they were taught (told) that they needed to put 25% of their income away for a long term savings. 10% went to a gift fund so when b-days, Christmas, mother/father days came they would not be scratching their heads wondering where the money was coming from. they had to put money into charity. they had 50% of their wages that they could do what ever they wanted with. once they completed school, they had to pay rent. they were taught (told) that if they did not live at home then they would have to pay rent somewhere so get in the habit. when they moved out in their early 20's they not only had a great nest egg to put down on the house they bought but we were able to give them back the money they gave us for rent as a gift to help start their new lives.
what started to them as a horrible thing, in their minds, turned into the best thing they ever did and they have thanked us many times over.

this is not for everyone. we each do what we feel is best for our own. they need to learn how to function without someone standing over them. you need to give that opportunity to your child.

This made me think of another quote - this one by the author Robert Heinlien. He said, "Do not handicap your children by making their lives easy." I truly believe this because I have seen what this has done to my own family members. Some adversity and struggle helps make us resourceful and resilient.

 

[redsonja76]

Kick him out. It's harsh but what needs to happen. It's what is happening right now with my daughter too. She is driving me crazy so she has until summer to get out.

I was AWFUL with money when I was younger, even had a bankruptcy under my belt by age 24. Now I'm 39 and really got my act together. I had to hit rock bottom, and had to be told "NO". It's hard to do, but you need to.

 

[paulaccc]

We set up a spreadsheet to monitor spending every day so he can realize where his money is going. When he comes home from work together we put in the spreadsheet what he spends each day in categories such as food, tools etc. I think this will help. One thing I also neglected to mention is that as a starting mechanic he has to routinely buy tools which are very expensive. I am not making excuses for him not having money, I just want people to have a well rounded picture of his expenses. Tools are not cheap. We turned off the internet on his phone which is a start. We spoke with him about also turning off wifi in the house. Again, not making excuses, he does have ADD with impulsivity issues. This was diagnosed by several doctors. He did have counseling while in high school but does not want to take any medications. That is his decision and I support it. He tried some in middle school and the results were not good. His doctor told us that with ADD your maturity level is below what your chronological age indicates. That is true. I think he is more like a 16 or 17 year old right now. It upsets me to hear that when I provide information people are saying I'm making excuses. I am not. I just wanted to give the fullest picture I can give while posting online about our family. We have told him we aren't paying any more bills (for which he does pay us back by the way, but slowly). I am not kicking him out of the house, period. I was really looking for ways to make it less comfortable for him living at home and making saving money more desirable for him-- such as turning off wifi.

Some people mentioned that $400 per month (which we collect $200 per paycheck-- someone asked in the thread) may be too high. He makes about $14/hour and does not get paid overtime if he works over 40 hours. Mechanics are specifically excluded in the law from employers paying overtime. So he is straight time. I think $400 is OK but I could break it down to him in a different way like $250 is for rent and $150 is for car insurance and phone or whatever. Not sure this breakdown is necessary.