Help with son who spends more than he makes

[Dakota731]

And it doesn't help that parents tell their kids from birth "you can be anything you want to be". Sorry just not true! No matter how hard my husband tried, he couldn't be a pro-basketball player, I could never be a astrophysicist and my son would never make it as a professional singer. My daughter has a young man in her med school class who gets extra time during exams and his mother writes his reports. He wants to be an ER physician. Sorry but I don't think I want someone who needs extra time and help from mom to be making life and death decisions at my bedside. Maybe every job wasn't meant for every child!
It's like you see the crest fallen kids who are turned down on American Idol who can't carry a tune to save their lives. Where were the parents all these years to say "hey maybe singing isn't your thing, maybe try acting or painting". Self-esteem is built by doing something well. Not by having meaningless praise rain down on your head from parents since birth.

 

[Jen and Ashwin]

And it doesn't help that parents tell their kids from birth "you can be anything you want to be". Sorry just not true! No matter how hard my husband tried, he couldn't be a pro-basketball player, I could never be a astrophysicist and my son would never make it as a professional singer. My daughter has a young man in her med school class who gets extra time during exams and his mother writes his reports. He wants to be an ER physician. Sorry but I don't think I want someone who needs extra time and help from mom to be making life and death decisions at my bedside. Maybe every job wasn't meant for every child!
It's like you see the crest fallen kids who are turned down on American Idol who can't carry a tune to save their lives. Where were the parents all these years to say "hey maybe singing isn't your thing, maybe try acting or painting". Self-esteem is built by doing something well. Not by having meaningless praise rain down on your head from parents since birth.

Just wondering, but how do you know that this student's mother is writing his reports?

 

[Dakota731]

Just wondering, but how do you know that this student's mother is writing his reports?

He tells the other students in the class! Working at a university admissions office, I'm shocked to see how many students (1/3!) need remedial math or English courses to even start college. And these are kids with 4.0 and above transcripts. So not sure whether they are getting a lot of help with homework or grading has become way too easy in schools nowadays as not to hurt anyone's feelings. Being in this industry for 30 years, I have seen quite a difference in the parents and students alike and not in a good way.

 

[Judique]

And it doesn't help that parents tell their kids from birth "you can be anything you want to be". Sorry just not true! No matter how hard my husband tried, he couldn't be a pro-basketball player, I could never be a astrophysicist and my son would never make it as a professional singer. My daughter has a young man in her med school class who gets extra time during exams and his mother writes his reports. He wants to be an ER physician. Sorry but I don't think I want someone who needs extra time and help from mom to be making life and death decisions at my bedside. Maybe every job wasn't meant for every child!
It's like you see the crest fallen kids who are turned down on American Idol who can't carry a tune to save their lives. Where were the parents all these years to say "hey maybe singing isn't your thing, maybe try acting or painting". Self-esteem is built by doing something well. Not by having meaningless praise rain down on your head from parents since birth.

I disagree to a certain extent.

Self esteem is built in many ways.

I do agree that not every job is meant for every child.

But the ability to work at something and to accept help and keep on striving to become good at something is not a quality I would try to diminish. The 'brain' that gets it in a second is not necessarily the best team player.

 

[Dakota731]

Anyone see the Today Show this morning - a former dean from Stanford wrote a book about helicopter parenting saying a lot of the things that have been said on this thread. Her Eight life skills that all 18 year olds should know is excellent: http://www.today.com/parents/8-life-skills-all-18-year-olds-should-have-checklist-t68666. As she said we are helping our kids in the short term to get good grades, talking to the coach etc. but not preparing them for life.

 

[barkley]

Anyone see the Today Show this morning - a former dean from Stanford wrote a book about helicopter parenting saying a lot of the things that have been said on this thread. Her Eight life skills that all 18 year olds should know is excellent: http://www.today.com/parents/8-life-skills-all-18-year-olds-should-have-checklist-t68666. As she said we are helping our kids in the short term to get good grades, talking to the coach etc. but not preparing them for life.

I have to agree b/c I see many of these issues w/the college students in the college town near us-and the aspect of 'running a household' always resonates during the 2 weeks prior to the beginning of the college year when the grocery store is filled with both brand new students AND older students who are transitioning from the dorm to apartment living whose moms are walking them up and down the aisles 'teaching' them how to shop-how to read unit prices, 'this is a grocery ad-you should get one in the mailbox but they also have them at the front of the store-these are coupons, this is how you use a coupon....', yet still months into college I encounter the students in the aisles cell phone in hand talking to their moms about 'yeah I know I called when I went grocery shopping earlier but did you know hamburger helper DOES'NT come with the hamburger inside????', 'but the recipe I'm making says I need a half of a tomato and half an onion-but the store doesn't sell them in halves', or 'how was I to know you can't use a dishwashing soap in the washing machine-soap is soap-why should I have to get the stuff AND clean up the floors, isn't that why YOU pay the landlord?'


I look at the list the professor has provided, and I think it's very interesting that ds who is in special ed has for all 4 of his years in high school had these concepts covered and reviewed in his 'life skills' classes-including being taken to the local colleges for walking tours to familiarize the students with the layouts and doing a training with our public transit authority (bus system that covers 248 square miles). dd and the rest of students not in special ed? NOTHING, they don't even offer life skills through the old concept of 'home economics' classes anymore. ideally they've been taught most of these concepts at home but I honestly just don't see it.

 

[kamik86]

And it doesn't help that parents tell their kids from birth "you can be anything you want to be". Sorry just not true! No matter how hard my husband tried, he couldn't be a pro-basketball player, I could never be a astrophysicist and my son would never make it as a professional singer. My daughter has a young man in her med school class who gets extra time during exams and his mother writes his reports. He wants to be an ER physician. Sorry but I don't think I want someone who needs extra time and help from mom to be making life and death decisions at my bedside. Maybe every job wasn't meant for every child!
It's like you see the crest fallen kids who are turned down on American Idol who can't carry a tune to save their lives. Where were the parents all these years to say "hey maybe singing isn't your thing, maybe try acting or painting". Self-esteem is built by doing something well. Not by having meaningless praise rain down on your head from parents since birth.

I somewhat disagree with the bolded.

One of the frustrations I have with my DH sometimes is if there is something he won't do well or that he is even afraid he might not do well, he has no interest in trying at all. Its frustrating at times.

Me I was the opposite. I played softball from 3rd grade through high school. I will fully admit I'm not good at it and never was. I was pretty damn awful to be honest. But I had fun so I did it.

I was never great at playing an instrument and did that from 3rd grade until Middle school, when I quit because if you were in band and choir you didn't do any other non academic classes (you would not get art classes for example).

I am scared of heights but would love to do one of those ziplines sometime... I think it would be quite the experience if I can get over being scared of it. I'm working on this. I can now do things like the Ferris wheel at disneyland (but only the non moving cars), a few years ago I couldn't even stand at the railing of the second floor of the mall.

Self esteem can also be built by geting better at things. Even if over half the world is still better then you.

However I do agree in the sense that if over half the world is better at something then you its probably not a good career choice . For that you have to find something your good at and you actually enjoy.

Telling kids they can be anything is more that they can try anything. I think that is the part that gets missed. It was telling me that I could be a programmer and an engineer even though I was a girl (back before the massive STEM initiatives for females)

 

[kamik86]

I have to agree b/c I see many of these issues w/the college students in the college town near us-and the aspect of 'running a household' always resonates during the 2 weeks prior to the beginning of the college year when the grocery store is filled with both brand new students AND older students who are transitioning from the dorm to apartment living whose moms are walking them up and down the aisles 'teaching' them how to shop-how to read unit prices, 'this is a grocery ad-you should get one in the mailbox but they also have them at the front of the store-these are coupons, this is how you use a coupon....', yet still months into college I encounter the students in the aisles cell phone in hand talking to their moms about 'yeah I know I called when I went grocery shopping earlier but did you know hamburger helper DOES'NT come with the hamburger inside????', 'but the recipe I'm making says I need a half of a tomato and half an onion-but the store doesn't sell them in halves', or 'how was I to know you can't use a dishwashing soap in the washing machine-soap is soap-why should I have to get the stuff AND clean up the floors, isn't that why YOU pay the landlord?'


I look at the list the professor has provided, and I think it's very interesting that ds who is in special ed has for all 4 of his years in high school had these concepts covered and reviewed in his 'life skills' classes-including being taken to the local colleges for walking tours to familiarize the students with the layouts and doing a training with our public transit authority (bus system that covers 248 square miles). dd and the rest of students not in special ed? NOTHING, they don't even offer life skills through the old concept of 'home economics' classes anymore. ideally they've been taught most of these concepts at home but I honestly just don't see it.

I'm an overplanner. I'm glad I was as it saved me from being one of these kids. Two years before I was going to leave for college I realized I didn't know how to do laundry, cook anything that was more complicated then pasta, or do many other things. So I made mom teach me. Mom loved this because now I cooked dinner once in a while and did some of the laundry lol.

I still suck at shopping. I can do coupons if I have to but I make enough money where I don't. So for me shopping is about getting done with it as soon as possible. DH luckily is good at shopping so he makes up for that. We shop together. Me to make sure we aren't buying stuff we don't need (DH is good at shopping not budgetting, If he has $10 he will spend $10, he will get more stuff then if I spent $10 but he will still spend it all) and he goes to make sure we don't overpay for stuff.

 

[sarah4770]

I created a new account just for privacy but I've been a DIS member for many years. We have a son living at home who graduated from auto mechanic school in June. He has always worked and started working full time the day after he graduated. He doesn't make much and lives at home. The problem is he always spends more than he makes. He spends tons of money on gas because he likes to drive around, on food, on his car, and other things. He will find ways to use things like PayPal or Game Stop credit to buy things but won't have the money to pay it off and then will get letters from creditors. When we talk to him he basically says he just can't help himself. So we have been trying to make things less comfortable for him at home to try to get him to curb his spending. Right now we pay for his car insurance & phone. He has to have the car for work and needs the phone in case his boss needs him to come in etc. We turned off the internet on his phone but we are having trouble coming up with other ways to get the lightbulb to turn on so he is better about spending. We do charge him "rent" which in reality we put away for him because he has zero savings. He was good about giving us the money but then had some car repair expenses and missed a few payments. We worry about his credit and we did recently pay off his $400 balance on the Game Stop bill because it was about to go to collections. He won't even sit down to discuss money with us. We are super good with money and try to give him advice but he is extremely resistant. He is impulsive with spending.

So I'm looking for advice on how to make him a little less comfortable at home so he feels like he wants to pay us for the bills we laid out money for and his "rent" so he can get XYZ back. I'm doubt turning off his internet on the phone will be enough. We could say no more friends over. I'm not sure what else to do. Any ideas? Thanks in advance.

Why is his spending your problem? It is his problem. I have never tried to manage my adult children's money,(or internet use) regardless of their physical challenges. An adult should contribute to household expenses.... at the very least the increase in utilities and food it takes for an extra person in the household. Charge him a reasonable rent and take your hands off his car insurance and his phone bill, and the rest of his bills. They belong to him. Let him have the dignity to learn from his mistakes. It's called respect.

 

[TOTMGMWDW]

When my daughter turned 16 she was given a car by a family friend. She knew that car would not be on the road and driving unless she got a job and paid for it. She got a part time job the next month and has worked for 2 years. She pays her car insurance, gas and cell phone bill. We also require her to put so much in her savings account each month to save for college. She knows any extras come from her money. Never once has she not paid any of her bills! Don't enable him!! Let him fail and learn from that failure. A couple of bills going to collection would be a hard lesson but necessary for him to grow up. Everyone learns at a difference pace and your son just needs a little more coaxing. He should be paying for ALL his own bills, including insurance both car and medical. If he can't afford it....he needs a part time job until he can figure it out.

 

[Ava]

In my eyes, the problem is when the teacher gives those projects clearly done by the parents higher grades than those truly done by the kids by themselves. Been there, lived through that scenario LOTS of times. If the teachers didn't reward the parent's work, then the parents would learn quickly to back off. And the parents who didn't help wouldn't learn that their kid is going to feel like crap because they got a lower grade even though they put their heart into it, so they wouldn't feel the need to start jumping in.

Oh - and it would really also help if teacher's didn't assign projects that are WAY over the kids' heads. Yeah 3rd grade teacher - I'm looking at you. A 5 page report on a specific California settler that you have to dig through advanced, obscure research material to get information on? Come on!

Obviously these things vary by teacher, and my DD is only in 1st grade so we haven't gotten any very difficult work yet. But the teachers we've had can tell when a project is done by the student (with a parent's help expected since they're only 5-6 years old), or completely by a parent. They also don't get grades yet on projects, just a check for completing it satisfactorily or maybe a check+ for extra effort. I hope my DD continues to have good & fair teachers but it is tough if your child ends up with a not-so-great teacher.

Society wants to blame "helicopter parents" for everything right now - that seems to be the in thing to do. Thing is, society is the one that created that problem to start with. I am definitely not a helicopter parent, and I deal with the evil looks from teachers and other parents because of it. One of DD15's teachers had the gall just last week to tell her it was mean that I dropped her off 1 block away from school in the morning when it was sprinkling, so she had to walk a little ways in a light rain. Geez! I remember having to walk around my college campus during a hurricane one time because they refused to cancel classes since it was "only rain" - no one seemed to have a problem that I got soaked to my skin back then. And they shouldn't have - it didn't harm me one bit!

That's ridiculous! We live in NYC (Brooklyn) and here most kids get to school on their own via either walking or public transportation starting in middle school, sometimes earlier. The DOE only buses kids through 6th grade; after that if they live more than 1.5 miles from school they're given a MetroCard to take public transportation. Once they're in 3rd grade you can allow your child to walk home from school unaccompanied if you live less than 1 mile from school.

I do agree that it can be a vicious cycle between over parenting and rules/attitudes imposed by others.

 

[petlvr1064]

Yep it is. But its part of your job as a parent. Because if you don't let them fail a little while they still do have the safety net of mom and dad (Mom, you were right, can I move back home until I get my finances straightened out?) they eventually won't have that safety net. You can't let your adult children move into Senior Housing with you.

My sister in law took her son down to the homeless shelter and dropped him off when he wasn't following the household rules as a young adult. He's in his mid-20s and still lives at home, but he has pretty serious Aspergers and may not ever be really independent. She actually had to do it twice - the second time there weren't any beds in the shelter, so she took him home and put him in the garage with an electric heater, a camp cot, and a sleeping bag and said "you can sleep here." Yep, that's right, she tough loved her disabled son into following the household rules and getting a job. Her kid is better for it, and so is her marriage and her home life - plus, she is a lot less worried about what will happen to him when she can't support him any longer. He may end up needing services, but he has now shown he can hold a full time low skill job.

I don't know where u live but I to have Auspurgurs and have been out of my mom's house since the age of 21. I first moved in to a group home but now live on my own. I have staff that comes 5 days a week to help me do what ever I n

 

[petlvr1064]

I am 30 and have Auspurgurs also. I have been out of my mom's house since the age of 21. When I turned 21 I moved in to a group home with 4 other roommates and 24/7 staffing. I lived there for about 2 years then moved in to a condo with two other roommates and just hourly staff. I then moved in to my own apartment and still have Staff 5 days a week. If it were not for Creast which is the company I get services through I would still be liveing at home. I also just started a " community job" in December and absolutely love it. I was working at Goodwill for the past 8 years. As far as money management goes my mom is my payee meaning she payes all my bills with my money. It feels awsome to be independent.

 

[Dakota731]

Very funny and sometimes telling quiz a friend sent me a few years ago: http://www.csmonitor.com/The-Cultur...hen-your-baby-drops-a-cookie-on-the-floor-you

 

[eeyoreandtink]

He tells the other students in the class! Working at a university admissions office, I'm shocked to see how many students (1/3!) need remedial math or English courses to even start college. And these are kids with 4.0 and above transcripts. So not sure whether they are getting a lot of help with homework or grading has become way too easy in schools nowadays as not to hurt anyone's feelings. Being in this industry for 30 years, I have seen quite a difference in the parents and students alike and not in a good way.

A lot of that is the current emphasis by the powers that be in our government on test scores. Teachers are being judged on their student's ability to take a test, not what they are teaching, how they are teaching it, or how well it translates into real life or secondary education. they are being forced to "just get them through" without regard for what they REALLY need to be successful. Bean counters want a totally objective standard like a test score to decide whether education is effective or not, but it is so much more complex than that. You cannot test a student's ability to reason through complex ideas, design solutions to problems, or write effectively with multiple choice tests, but grading these things is subjective and not what the bean counters want, so they lose emphasis. Being able to correctly choose a,b,c,or d is more important because its what teacher pay and school funding is being based on.

 

[crisi]

A lot of that is the current emphasis by the powers that be in our government on test scores. Teachers are being judged on their student's ability to take a test, not what they are teaching, how they are teaching it, or how well it translates into real life or secondary education. they are being forced to "just get them through" without regard for what they REALLY need to be successful. Bean counters want a totally objective standard like a test score to decide whether education is effective or not, but it is so much more complex than that. You cannot test a student's ability to reason through complex ideas, design solutions to problems, or write effectively with multiple choice tests, but grading these things is subjective and not what the bean counters want, so they lose emphasis. Being able to correctly choose a,b,c,or d is more important because its what teacher pay and school funding is being based on.

It also has a lot to do with the push to a four year college. My son is not four year college material. He hates school. Getting him to read his assignments or write a paper is pulling teeth. But he is good at shop, he's a hard worker, he is careful and consciousness when it comes to activities outside academia and he wants to go to trade school.

I had to jump through hoops so the kid wouldn't need to take pre-calc. It isn't required for graduation, but his counselor kept telling him, and me, that "four years of math is needed for college." I had to jump through hoops to get him pulled from college prep chemistry. He doesn't WANT to go to college.

He's currently being force fed The Great Gatsby and my husband and I are confused. I like The Great Gatsby, I've read it at least three times. But there is no reason that a high school kid interested in the trades ever needs to read The Great Gatsby. Yes, its great prep for my daughter, who is headed to a four year college with the intention of majoring in PoliSci. When we talk to the teachers and counselors about it, its all about prepping these kids for college - but he - and 30% of his class - aren't college bound. Out of the 70% that go, most won't graduate within six years because they aren't college material. Why make high school difficult for them? Prep them for the trades - these are kids that MIGHT someday pick up a best seller like "The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo" but who may get through the rest of their life without reading a novel. And that is FINE.

We don't set up kids for success because we've defined success to be a box. We need plumbers and electricians and truck drivers and construction workers and mechanics. Am I disappointed that my kid isn't a great reader who is college bound - yeah, I am. I fancy myself an intellectual and get great enjoyment from these things, and I wish he could share them. But I'm not going to try to cram my kid into my box that he shows no interest in - that won't make him happy or successful. The fact that I, as a parent, have to fight the school on this is troubling.

 

[eeyoreandtink]

It also has a lot to do with the push to a four year college. My son is not four year college material. He hates school. Getting him to read his assignments or write a paper is pulling teeth. But he is good at shop, he's a hard worker, he is careful and consciousness when it comes to activities outside academia and he wants to go to trade school.

I had to jump through hoops so the kid wouldn't need to take pre-calc. It isn't required for graduation, but his counselor kept telling him, and me, that "four years of math is needed for college." I had to jump through hoops to get him pulled from college prep chemistry. He doesn't WANT to go to college.

He's currently being force fed The Great Gatsby and my husband and I are confused. I like The Great Gatsby, I've read it at least three times. But there is no reason that a high school kid interested in the trades ever needs to read The Great Gatsby. Yes, its great prep for my daughter, who is headed to a four year college with the intention of majoring in PoliSci. When we talk to the teachers and counselors about it, its all about prepping these kids for college - but he - and 30% of his class - aren't college bound. Out of the 70% that go, most won't graduate within six years because they aren't college material. Why make high school difficult for them? Prep them for the trades - these are kids that MIGHT someday pick up a best seller like "The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo" but who may get through the rest of their life without reading a novel. And that is FINE.

We don't set up kids for success because we've defined success to be a box. We need plumbers and electricians and truck drivers and construction workers and mechanics. Am I disappointed that my kid isn't a great reader who is college bound - yeah, I am. I fancy myself an intellectual and get great enjoyment from these things, and I wish he could share them. But I'm not going to try to cram my kid into my box that he shows no interest in - that won't make him happy or successful. The fact that I, as a parent, have to fight the school on this is troubling.

ITA. The myth that everyone is college bound needs to go away. It comes from the same place as the emphasis on testing, people who have never set foot in a classroom as anything except a student.

 

[Gracie09]

It also has a lot to do with the push to a four year college. My son is not four year college material. He hates school. Getting him to read his assignments or write a paper is pulling teeth. But he is good at shop, he's a hard worker, he is careful and consciousness when it comes to activities outside academia and he wants to go to trade school.

I had to jump through hoops so the kid wouldn't need to take pre-calc. It isn't required for graduation, but his counselor kept telling him, and me, that "four years of math is needed for college." I had to jump through hoops to get him pulled from college prep chemistry. He doesn't WANT to go to college.

He's currently being force fed The Great Gatsby and my husband and I are confused. I like The Great Gatsby, I've read it at least three times. But there is no reason that a high school kid interested in the trades ever needs to read The Great Gatsby. Yes, its great prep for my daughter, who is headed to a four year college with the intention of majoring in PoliSci. When we talk to the teachers and counselors about it, its all about prepping these kids for college - but he - and 30% of his class - aren't college bound. Out of the 70% that go, most won't graduate within six years because they aren't college material. Why make high school difficult for them? Prep them for the trades - these are kids that MIGHT someday pick up a best seller like "The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo" but who may get through the rest of their life without reading a novel. And that is FINE.

We don't set up kids for success because we've defined success to be a box. We need plumbers and electricians and truck drivers and construction workers and mechanics. Am I disappointed that my kid isn't a great reader who is college bound - yeah, I am. I fancy myself an intellectual and get great enjoyment from these things, and I wish he could share them. But I'm not going to try to cram my kid into my box that he shows no interest in - that won't make him happy or successful. The fact that I, as a parent, have to fight the school on this is troubling.

I get college is not for everyone and I totally support kids going into the trades. But there is tons of value in learning how to read and evaluate novels and other printed material. When these kids are adults they will be voting and making decisions about who should run our country. Being able to evaluate news stories and propaganda is crucial to making an informed choice.

 

[Clare Voince]

Let things go to collections. I wasn't smart about money when I was in college and I had a phone bill and a credit card go to collections. They make you feel like a criminal. It straightened me out. His credit will recover. I have a 805 credit score now.

Some people just won't get the message though, and he might be one of them. The peace of mind that having money gives me is worth more to me than anything I could buy.

 

[crisi]

I get college is not for everyone and I totally support kids going into the trades. But there is tons of value in learning how to read and evaluate novels and other printed material. When these kids are adults they will be voting and making decisions about who should run our country. Being able to evaluate news stories and propaganda is crucial to making an informed choice.

But there are ways to do that which don't involve reading what to an unintellectual seventeen year old boy is unapproachable literature. Since the book isn't approachable to him, that isn't what he learns from that.

Teaching kids to read articles and evaluate them - whose point of view is this, what sources are used, who is it slanted to, are the facts good? - would be FAR more useful than reading The Scarlet Letter if you want to accomplish that goal.

I have a degree in what is functionally deconstruction. I do get what you are saying, and before I dealt with my son, I'd have made the same argument. But he does not get that value from this. What he does get is that reading is boring and should be avoided at all costs.