Help with son who spends more than he makes

[nordkin]

My son has severe adhd and is also a mechanic. Tools are very expensive and they will always have another they need to purchase. What I am seeing are excuses. You are making it too easy. My son has trouble with impulse control, but knows, from learning the hard way, that bills must be paid first. Let him sink or swim and he will learn. You may not like the consequences, but it is the only way he will learn.

 

[Darcy03231]

OP, I'm sure you're not going to like this solution, but here's what we did - - he moved into his own place. Until he has to pay his own bills without you as a safety net he isn't going to learn. He need to figure this out on his own.

 

[seashell724]

It is true and sad that piece work mechanics do not get paid overtime for their work done. However, he knew this when he wanted to be a mechanic. Also, it isn't going to change in the next 20 years. If you don't let him learn this while at home he won't be able to function when he moves out. You said he just got a 50% raise so he probably won't get another one for a while. Right now is the time he needs to take that extra 50% he is making to save and build his tool inventory.

It is entirely possible that some days he might make 2 hours depending on how busy they are and other days he might make 15 hours. So, even if he does not get paid over time, if he works more he may have the opportunity to make more hours.

Make More Money or Spend Less. Those are the only 2 choices he has.

 

[leebee]

And having many friends who have been teachers for decades see this dramatic change which we now call "helicopter parenting". My neighbor teaches high school has to put all assignments online so parents can remind their kids to do their work and see what is do when. And she said she gets calls every day from parents saying "my son was confused about the project" or my daughter "had a track meet last night so she wasn't ready for the test." At what age are kids nowadays responsible for their own work? These are the same young people then who are being supported by mom until they are 35 and beyond! You are not doing your kids a favor by shielding them from responsibility and trouble from cradle until crave. You are creating lifelong babies!

My husband is on faculty at a private university. The father of one of his students called him. Seems Sonny was having trouble waking up in the morning to make it to 10AM chem class on time. Would DH please call Sonny each morning to make sure he was out of bed so he could be to class on time? IN COLLEGE. Anyone want to guess what DH's response was?

 

[usnuzuloose]

My husband is on faculty at a private university. The father of one of his students called him. Seems Sonny was having trouble waking up in the morning to make it to 10AM chem class on time. Would DH please call Sonny each morning to make sure he was out of bed so he could be to class on time? IN COLLEGE. Anyone want to guess what DH's response was?

I hear you, I had one person when I hired them there parent called to tell me they had a problem with me. I told them I can only discuss that with the employee. Why oh why do parents do this?

 

[manning]

Best way, tough love. He is of age and has a job. Tell him it's time to move out and learn how to handle money.

Also hope he doesn't lose his job. He is setting himself up making it hard to find a new one. Companies can/will check credit ratings before hiring.

 

[MrsPete]

He's a skilled worker ... with no dependents ... living in your house ... you're covering all his needs, even his insurance and phone ... and he can't make ends meet? I don't believe it. You're making/accepting excuses about the tools, the car repair, his immaturity. He's a spoiled kid taking advantage of you, and changing that won't be easy:

- He needs to work more hours, or he needs a second job.
- Or, he needs to start selling some thing (i.e., video games) to raise some cash and pay off his debts; seeing things go out the door at pennies on the dollar could be a good lesson.
- He needs to pay more rent, not less. He needs to practice being an adult, not be coddled. Does he know you're saving the money? He shouldn't.
- Does he really need the car to go to work? Without it, what could he do? Take the bus? Ride a bike? Ask a friend for a ride? Note, I didn't say, What would he like to do? I said, What could he do? If he's not going to make his money stretch, he should get used to being creative.
- Does he really need a phone to go to work? I doubt it. If a phone were needed for his job, his employer would provide it.

 

[Dakota731]

My husband is on faculty at a private university. The father of one of his students called him. Seems Sonny was having trouble waking up in the morning to make it to 10AM chem class on time. Would DH please call Sonny each morning to make sure he was out of bed so he could be to class on time? IN COLLEGE. Anyone want to guess what DH's response was?

At our university, professors are not even allowed to speak to parents if the student is over 18 - privacy laws. Parents screw and holler that they are paying the bills but it doesn't matter, the student is an adult!

OP, don't take the responses personally. You are not alone - I think this is our entire generation of parents. We want to be super involved parents, but what we are doing is backfiring. I see it every day from my sister in law who helps her sophomore son with his homework every night. When I questioned her she said "he won't get all A's if I don't." When I replied that he didn't earn or deserve the A, then she said "he won't get into a great college then."
And my friend who coaches high school sports gets calls every week from parents telling him what line up he should use or what kids to put in what events. Heck, my parents didn't even know the name of my coach much less even dream of calling him with advice! We really need to back off as parents and let our kids from young on up learn to talk to coaches and teachers and learn to make some of their own decisions.

 

[tinkerone]

I see it every day from my sister in law who helps her sophomore son with his homework every night. When I questioned her she said "he won't get all A's if I don't." When I replied that he didn't earn or deserve the A, then she said "he won't get into a great college then."

this would be amusing if it weren't for the fact one of my bffs did this for her two children. some of us joke that she has earned herself two very nice degrees from a prestigious university while the certificates come in her childrens names. even with both children graduated she still enables them with money to fix their problems. neither one knows how to be grateful because they have never been asked to be grateful. its a shame that there are now two adults in the world who still look to mommy and daddy to fix their issues and they don't know what to do for themselves.
my friend means good, she just keeps coming up with reasons (excuses) why they need her help. she really needs to let go, try some tough love, and let them figure a few things out themselves.

to each our own…..

 

[AZMermaid]

I agree.... this is way helicopter. He is a grown man. A young man but yes, a man. I was even sort of with you (didn't agree but I could see it).... but the part about the credit card in the safe turned me off.

When I was in my early twenties and newly graduated... I worked at Enterprise (hated that job). I made $10/hour plus some over time. I then decided to go back to school for my teaching credentials (so I could make a whopping $38K 8 years in- hahahaha). I lived on my own, paid rent (about $350ish), car payment, insurance, food, electric etc etc. By the time I went part time to do student teaching, the car was paid off but I had all the rest of the expenses. I took out a student loan to cover expenses that semester. And- I overdrew my account a few times. I had a couple small unpaid bills that went to collections (Columbia DVD house- I'm looking at you). My credit survived and recovered. It is now around 775. It was in the low 700s when I got married at 28 (so before I had combined income and a mortgage).

I lived at home a few years in college (until almost 21) and my parents paid my car insurance until I graduated. So, I had some help but other than that, I was on my own. I didn't have endless money to buy video games.

I am not saying you need to kick him out. I think you should (in a prearranged time- like 3-6 months) but if you don't want to, that's fine. Float his rent and he pays everything else. Everything. $14/hour is PLENTY of money for him to do so.

Turning off his internet is a punsihmenet you would give a 15 year old. That is why he can't mature financially. Give him that credit card. If you hadn't helped him, his limit would be like $500 and he couldn't do too much damage. Now it may be higher though.... but that is on you.

 

[barkley]

. But, I have watched other family members rely
on their parents to "bail them out" even into their 50's

sadly far too common from what I've seen-and then those family members are in total shock when the parents pass and the estate they leave is far less than anticipated at best ('where's all the money? where did it go?'-ummmmmmmmmmm ya wanna see the checkbook register with your name prominently and repetitively listed?).

it's sad to begin with but we've seen it negatively impact generationally down to the grandkids and great grandkids. the adult children are historically reliant on their parents to financially bail them out such that they never learn to live within their means, their kids grow up (unaware of grandparent's financial help to mom/dad) thinking the lifestyle their parents live/they've lived is the norm/entirely attainable with the kind of jobs mom/dad have held. these kids end up making the same terrible financial choices their parents have PLUS they are often saddled with massive student debt (b/c they don't realize that when mom/dad went to college-if they did-it was far less expensive OR grandma/grandpa footed the bill or paid the student loans for them as part of the on-going 'bail out'). in some fortunate cases there is a huge wake up call early on that they can't afford the lifestyle they are accustomed to and either have to scale back or consider other career options, but what we've sadly seen is a later true realization coming to them when they start to have their own children and find that a sahp isn't financially feasible, but neither is putting the child in daycare due to the cost. these innocent great-grands of the enablers aren't doing without the extras-they are doing without the basics

I think most people hope that each subsequent generation of their family will at minimum do at least a bit better financially, have improved lifestyles. that's just not what we're seeing in these situations and it greatly saddens me.

 

[Ava]

And having many friends who have been teachers for decades see this dramatic change which we now call "helicopter parenting". My neighbor teaches high school has to put all assignments online so parents can remind their kids to do their work and see what is do when. And she said she gets calls every day from parents saying "my son was confused about the project" or my daughter "had a track meet last night so she wasn't ready for the test." At what age are kids nowadays responsible for their own work? These are the same young people then who are being supported by mom until they are 35 and beyond! You are not doing your kids a favor by shielding them from responsibility and trouble from cradle until crave. You are creating lifelong babies!

It all starts when they get that first at-home project in kindergarten or 1st grade, and the parent does the whole thing. We have a couple of those in my DD's 1st grade class; when the projects are displayed all together in the classroom, its obvious which ones were done completely by an adult. I would love to tell those parents that they aren't doing their child any favors by doing their work for them.

 

[NKHarris329]

Ugh... yeah. Our kindergartener has done a couple small projects and it is so obvious when you compare the projects of those done by 5 year olds to those projects done by adults. You are NOT helping by doing everything for your kids.

 

[MomToOne]

It all starts when they get that first at-home project in kindergarten or 1st grade, and the parent does the whole thing. We have a couple of those in my DD's 1st grade class; when the projects are displayed all together in the classroom, its obvious which ones were done completely by an adult. I would love to tell those parents that they aren't doing their child any favors by doing their work for them.

In my eyes, the problem is when the teacher gives those projects clearly done by the parents higher grades than those truly done by the kids by themselves. Been there, lived through that scenario LOTS of times. If the teachers didn't reward the parent's work, then the parents would learn quickly to back off. And the parents who didn't help wouldn't learn that their kid is going to feel like crap because they got a lower grade even though they put their heart into it, so they wouldn't feel the need to start jumping in.

Oh - and it would really also help if teacher's didn't assign projects that are WAY over the kids' heads. Yeah 3rd grade teacher - I'm looking at you. A 5 page report on a specific California settler that you have to dig through advanced, obscure research material to get information on? Come on!

Society wants to blame "helicopter parents" for everything right now - that seems to be the in thing to do. Thing is, society is the one that created that problem to start with. I am definitely not a helicopter parent, and I deal with the evil looks from teachers and other parents because of it. One of DD15's teachers had the gall just last week to tell her it was mean that I dropped her off 1 block away from school in the morning when it was sprinkling, so she had to walk a little ways in a light rain. Geez! I remember having to walk around my college campus during a hurricane one time because they refused to cancel classes since it was "only rain" - no one seemed to have a problem that I got soaked to my skin back then. And they shouldn't have - it didn't harm me one bit!

 

[Sadie22]

My husband is on faculty at a private university. The father of one of his students called him. Seems Sonny was having trouble waking up in the morning to make it to 10AM chem class on time. Would DH please call Sonny each morning to make sure he was out of bed so he could be to class on time? IN COLLEGE. Anyone want to guess what DH's response was?

I actually heard a parent ask who was going to do just that at a parent orientation during an open house for honors students at the state flagship university. The professor leading the session suggested that that parent's child was not ready for college and that certainly that institution was not the right fit for him.

 

[Dakota731]

Society wants to blame "helicopter parents" for everything right now - that seems to be the in thing to do. Thing is, society is the one that created that problem to start with.

Who is this society exactly? This current generation has tried to be better parents than their own but they've gone too far. My parents never helped me with my homework (from elementary on other than maybe a question here and there), they never called teachers to complain about homework or harassed coaches to put me in the game. And I was an independent self-supporting adult from age 18. I know we all want to be involved in our children's lives but it's gone too far. Our goal as parents is to raise our kids so they DON'T need us any more not have them dependent until we die.

In my eyes, the problem is when the teacher gives those projects clearly done by the parents higher grades than those truly done by the kids by themselves. Been there, lived through that scenario LOTS of times. If the teachers didn't reward the parent's work, then the parents would learn quickly to back off. And the parents who didn't help wouldn't learn that their kid is going to feel like crap because they got a lower grade even though they put their heart into it, so they wouldn't feel the need to start jumping in.

Oh - and it would really also help if teacher's didn't assign projects that are WAY over the kids' heads. Yeah 3rd grade teacher - I'm looking at you. A 5 page report on a specific California settler that you have to dig through advanced, obscure research material to get information on? Come on!

Most teachers aren't stupid - they know which project is done by the kids and they don't want parents jumping in. And most long-time educators will tell you that the biggest change in teaching over the years is the parents. They need to realize that they are not helping the child by doing the work or making excuses for behavior. Trying to promote responsibility even starting in kindergarten is the goal not having young people dependent upon parents throughout their entire lives!

 

[crisi]

Society wants to blame "helicopter parents" for everything right now - that seems to be the in thing to do. Thing is, society is the one that created that problem to start with. I am definitely not a helicopter parent, and I deal with the evil looks from teachers and other parents because of it. One of DD15's teachers had the gall just last week to tell her it was mean that I dropped her off 1 block away from school in the morning when it was sprinkling, so she had to walk a little ways in a light rain. Geez! I remember having to walk around my college campus during a hurricane one time because they refused to cancel classes since it was "only rain" - no one seemed to have a problem that I got soaked to my skin back then. And they shouldn't have - it didn't harm me one bit!

I've had that issue as well. Teachers who expect me to coach and tutor and track my kids homework - but they don't give me access to the syllabus or grading standards and then act shocked when I'm not in control at conferences.

 

[MomToOne]

Who is this society exactly? This current generation has tried to be better parents than their own but they've gone too far.

It's the people that pushed "Attachment Parenting" as the best way to raise a baby, and said it was awful for you to let your child cry themselves to sleep or even to sleep in their own room when they didn't want to.

It's the people that insisted we couldn't keep score at little kids sports games, and that all kids had to receive a "participation" trophy.

It's the teachers and administrations that held "back to school" nights in High School (!) and gave extra credit to the kids whose parents showed up for it.

It's the governments that decided letting your kids go to the park down the street from your house by themselves is reason to take the kids away: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...tigated-letting-children-walk-alone/25700823/

And after all this, everyone is now complaining that the kids are too coddled and aren't independent. Well, all I can say is you got what you asked for!

 

[ICF]

It's the teachers and administrations that held "back to school" nights in High School (!) and gave extra credit to the kids whose parents showed up for it.

I'll agree with alot of your post, but we had back to school/meet the parents night when I was in HS back in the mid-80s. There was no extra credit involved, nor was there for my HS sophomore at his last August.

 

[ronandannette]

We set up a spreadsheet to monitor spending every day so he can realize where his money is going. When he comes home from work together we put in the spreadsheet what he spends each day in categories such as food, tools etc. I think this will help... Again, not making excuses, he does have ADD with impulsivity issues... It upsets me to hear that when I provide information people are saying I'm making excuses. I am not...

Well, I'll give you props for coming back to this thread. I find it odd that you didn't feel that including his ADD was an important piece of information in your previous posts, but whatever.

I still think that you are making excuses for him. Most enablers will. Even a 16 or 17 year old is capable of understanding that money is finite and you cannot spend the same dollar twice. Sorry, Mom, but you need to allow him to make his own mistakes and stop using his ADD as an excuse to helicopter parent him through his life.

It sounds like the OP is trying to teach her son HOW to budget, something a lot of people never learn. It's not intuitive to everyone and if showing him step by step how to do it is what it takes, then it's time worth spending. The key is to show him how to do it, not do it for him...
And be honest in recognizing it if you show him how and he just won't do it. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. If he won't "drink" then more severe measures are needed.

First, I agree with Marionnette, OP - thanks for coming back. But honestly, most here agree your current efforts have and are going to continue to avail you nothing. Has he expressed that he'd like to be better with his money but just doesn't know how? Has he even a little bit ever applied any of the things you've already tried to teach him? I'm not talking about lip-service; all our kids know what to say in the moment to get us out of their faces. I mean have you actually seen any real evidence he's assimilating the information and applying it? Nothing you've said would indicate that he has. Either decide to take some (seemingly) drastic action or don't, but please don't believe that minor tweaks to what you're already doing will magically yield an entirely different outcome.