HELP!! 16w/o WON'T SLEEP!

[princessmom29]

Well, to be honest, I have to opposite experience. I co-slept with all of my children. I never even thought about doing it until I had my first and it was just easier since I was nursing. All of them go to bed with no problems in their own beds. Do they like to sleep in my bed? Sure, it is a treat on some weekends but to be honest I think they like it because I have a tv in my room and they don't.
As for the children being clingy, well that has nothing to do with co-sleeping. That has to do with parenting and a child's personality. I know plenty of people who never co-slept and their kids are clingy messes. The reality is though that they never tell their kids no and they let the kids rule the home. They don't insist that a child have manners like saying hello to an adult and instead make a million excuses about how the child is shy. Sleeping with someone doesn't make you clingy. It is what you do all day with your kids that help shape who they are and what they can get away with.
I know someone who never ever let the child sleep in their bed. This child could not even play with another child on a playdate unless her mother actively played with the kids. The reality was, the parents made a ton of excuses for her and the bottom line was they did not parent. They never showed her and insisted that she do/try things. I have seen many parents just like that.
As for co-sleeping, cio etc. there are a million arguments each way. You need to find what works for you. I personally am not a cio person. I also have not had any children with sleep issues either.

that is exactly why I said that different people have different experiences. I have seen many parents just like you are describing that did and did not co-sleep. I do however think that allowing a child to co-sleep so that they can feed, snuggle, ect on demand and on their own terms can start a pattern of making excuses and letting them control the situation. "oh she's just a difficult/ high need baby" ect. Can often be the beginnig of the type of parenting you are describing. We all know that it is much easier to give in to what a child wants than to deal with the fallout form saying no, and I think that for a lot of parents that pattern can start with co-sleeping and allowing the child to dictate the schedule because it is just easier than putting them in their bed and enforcing a schedule. They can just never find a way to stop donig that once the pattern is established. This is what i have seen personally happen with so many poeple I know, and for a lot of them it really took work for them to regain control of the situation.
Here is a perfect example of the kind of thing I am talking about: I have a friend who is dealing with this with her 14 month old who still does not sleep through the night. She wakes both mom and dad up multiple times a night. My friend just cannot bring herself to put her in her own bed, or to let her cry but both parents are so tired they can't see straight. They tried shortening naps and a bedtime routine, but she still gets up multiple times, and has to be patted or rocked back to sleep. My friend won't put her down awake because she crys to be rocked. She is truly at the end of her rope and I am at a loss as to how to help her if she won't put her in her bed and stop going to her every time she wimpers because the only thing that worked for me was to put DD down awake rather than rocking her. Any advice for me to give her form someone who doesn't do cio and was able to cosleep without issues because I just honestly don't know what els to suggest she try??

 

[Mouse House Mama]

If it were me and the child was waking multiple times per night I would try to figure out why. Is the child's diaper full? I know my own child wakes up and asked to be changed if she is too wet and then goes right back to bed. Maybe the child is getting molars? Children go through spurts and their sleeping patterns change. I know with each of my children there have been times where their sleeping was totally off. We have had nights where they would wake every half hour etc. It was not the norm and we knew that. We just rode it out. It usually passed in a relatively short period of time but sometimes it took a few weeks. What is the child getting up for? Do they want a drink/bottle? Do they want to play? Are they crying etc.? Is it the same time every night? It could be the heat kicking on and waking the child. It could be a neighbor's loud car, a train passing etc. Something that is disturbing the child's sleep pattern. It could also be that the child is getting sick. (a cold, ear infection etc.) There are so many reasons why the child could be waking up.
I realize that not every parent is interested in why the kid gets up and just wants the kid to sleep but if it is not the norm for the child then there has to be a reason. It doesn't mean the child can't sleep on their own. I wake up multiple times per night. I am simply not a good sleeper. Of course as an adult I don't cry and scream but I do go get a drink and watch tv. Obviously a child can't do that on their own but maybe they are just having a rough night and sometimes you do get up and put the Disney Channel on at 3am.

If I was your friend, I would try to figure out what the problem was and if I couldn't then I would try my best to figure out a way to get the child to sleep as fast as possible. The other issue is that the child obviously can't wake both parents at the same time. So what ever parent they wake first should not let the child wake the other parent. That to me seems very common sense. If one of my kids get up we don't all get up.

Of course if CIO works for you then that is what you should do. It just wasn't something that I was interested in. I know people have had success with it but there are many ways to get a baby to sleep. You just have to find what works for you.

 

[mjkacmom]

If it were me and the child was waking multiple times per night I would try to figure out why. Is the child's diaper full? I know my own child wakes up and asked to be changed if she is too wet and then goes right back to bed. Maybe the child is getting molars? Children go through spurts and their sleeping patterns change. I know with each of my children there have been times where their sleeping was totally off. We have had nights where they would wake every half hour etc. It was not the norm and we knew that. We just rode it out. It usually passed in a relatively short period of time but sometimes it took a few weeks. What is the child getting up for? Do they want a drink/bottle? Do they want to play? Are they crying etc.? Is it the same time every night? It could be the heat kicking on and waking the child. It could be a neighbor's loud car, a train passing etc. Something that is disturbing the child's sleep pattern. It could also be that the child is getting sick. (a cold, ear infection etc.) There are so many reasons why the child could be waking up.
I realize that not every parent is interested in why the kid gets up and just wants the kid to sleep but if it is not the norm for the child then there has to be a reason. It doesn't mean the child can't sleep on their own. I wake up multiple times per night. I am simply not a good sleeper. Of course as an adult I don't cry and scream but I do go get a drink and watch tv. Obviously a child can't do that on their own but maybe they are just having a rough night and sometimes you do get up and put the Disney Channel on at 3am.

If I was your friend, I would try to figure out what the problem was and if I couldn't then I would try my best to figure out a way to get the child to sleep as fast as possible. The other issue is that the child obviously can't wake both parents at the same time. So what ever parent they wake first should not let the child wake the other parent. That to me seems very common sense. If one of my kids get up we don't all get up.

Of course if CIO works for you then that is what you should do. It just wasn't something that I was interested in. I know people have had success with it but there are many ways to get a baby to sleep. You just have to find what works for you.

Since the OP's baby was sleeping fine before the hospital stay, and this only started after the hospital stay, and she has resorted to putting the baby to sleep, instead of letting the baby fall asleep on her own, I'm guessing the probable reason the baby is waking is because she is being put to sleep. There are 4 sleep cycles before the REM sleep cycle, and then one wakes. Everyone wakes up in between cycles, but if the circumstances are the same as when he/she fell asleep, he/she usually goes back to sleep without knowing they woke up at all.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Since the OP's baby was sleeping fine before the hospital stay, and this only started after the hospital stay, and she has resorted to putting the baby to sleep, instead of letting the baby fall asleep on her own, I'm guessing the probable reason the baby is waking is because she is being put to sleep. There are 4 sleep cycles before the REM sleep cycle, and then one wakes. Everyone wakes up in between cycles, but if the circumstances are the same as when he/she fell asleep, he/she usually goes back to sleep without knowing they woke up at all.

I agree that the hospital stay was probably the issue but I was referring to Princess29's friend.

 

[princessmom29]

If it were me and the child was waking multiple times per night I would try to figure out why. Is the child's diaper full? I know my own child wakes up and asked to be changed if she is too wet and then goes right back to bed. Maybe the child is getting molars? Children go through spurts and their sleeping patterns change. I know with each of my children there have been times where their sleeping was totally off. We have had nights where they would wake every half hour etc. It was not the norm and we knew that. We just rode it out. It usually passed in a relatively short period of time but sometimes it took a few weeks. What is the child getting up for? Do they want a drink/bottle? Do they want to play? Are they crying etc.? Is it the same time every night? It could be the heat kicking on and waking the child. It could be a neighbor's loud car, a train passing etc. Something that is disturbing the child's sleep pattern. It could also be that the child is getting sick. (a cold, ear infection etc.) There are so many reasons why the child could be waking up.
I realize that not every parent is interested in why the kid gets up and just wants the kid to sleep but if it is not the norm for the child then there has to be a reason. It doesn't mean the child can't sleep on their own. I wake up multiple times per night. I am simply not a good sleeper. Of course as an adult I don't cry and scream but I do go get a drink and watch tv. Obviously a child can't do that on their own but maybe they are just having a rough night and sometimes you do get up and put the Disney Channel on at 3am.

If I was your friend, I would try to figure out what the problem was and if I couldn't then I would try my best to figure out a way to get the child to sleep as fast as possible. The other issue is that the child obviously can't wake both parents at the same time. So what ever parent they wake first should not let the child wake the other parent. That to me seems very common sense. If one of my kids get up we don't all get up.

Of course if CIO works for you then that is what you should do. It just wasn't something that I was interested in. I know people have had success with it but there are many ways to get a baby to sleep. You just have to find what works for you.

Thanks, and I will definitely pass on the suggestion to try to look for a reason she is waking. From what my friend says this is the way it has always been, and not a new thing. She had hoped it would pass as she got older and it just hasn't. So far she cannot really figure out a reson. Sometimes she is wet, but other times not. She will play with a bottle but doesn't really want it. Mabye it is noise related or something else is disturbing her? I am wondering if mabye one of them is snoring and doesn't realize it. She wakes them both because she is sleeping in their bed with the both of them. When she stirs and starts pulling on one of them it wakes them both because of the movement in the bed. Only one has to get up to tend her, but they have both been distrubed, and it takes a while to resettle. I feel so bad for her. I hope something you are suggesting will work!!

 

[Longsx3]

Any chance she has an ear infection?

 

[smidgy]

sorry, I still think it's not very safe to co-sleep. we now know not to put babies in cribs with bumper pads (which I did when my kids were babies, many years ago), or with pillows, or with blankets above their waists. or with stuffed animals.
so.. if you cosleep, are you sleeping without a pillow? blanket? as careful a mother as you are, how can you control what you do when you are asleep? (esp. a mom as tired as the OP is) It only takes afew minutes to suffocate a baby, since they can't just move if they can't breathe.
a mother should be awake and in control when feeding her baby.
and, for the sake of the marriage, (dif. subject) the marriage bed should be for hubby and wife, as a general rule. (of course, in the case of thunderstorms, nightmares, etc, exceptions are ok.)
I still think sometimes babies who are breastfed get hungry earlier than others. no fault of the mom! I am not "NOT supporting breastfeeding" . the baby needs a little more to eat, that's all. and nighttime is the perfect time to give the little guy/girl a little rice cereal.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

sorry, I still think it's not very safe to co-sleep. we now know not to put babies in cribs with bumper pads (which I did when my kids were babies, many years ago), or with pillows, or with blankets above their waists. or with stuffed animals.
so.. if you cosleep, are you sleeping without a pillow? blanket? as careful a mother as you are, how can you control what you do when you are asleep? (esp. a mom as tired as the OP is) It only takes afew minutes to suffocate a baby, since they can't just move if they can't breathe.
a mother should be awake and in control when feeding her baby.
and, for the sake of the marriage, (dif. subject) the marriage bed should be for hubby and wife, as a general rule. (of course, in the case of thunderstorms, nightmares, etc, exceptions are ok.)
I still think sometimes babies who are breastfed get hungry earlier than others. no fault of the mom! I am not "NOT supporting breastfeeding" . the baby needs a little more to eat, that's all. and nighttime is the perfect time to give the little guy/girl a little rice cereal.

I actually took a bf class before I had my first. The woman who taught the class taught certain positions to sleep in that make it impossible to roll over. Trust me. I tried them all out before I even had my child. If you did try and roll the pain would wake you up. So if you are knowledgeable co-sleeping is very safe. Many countries co-sleep and they have very low rates of any problems. I will agree though that if you are so tired that you can barely function then perhaps a night of good sleep would be a better idea first.

As for the "marriage bed" well, I don't know about you and you are certainly entitled to your opinion but we are a little more creative than just our bed. I get that some people might think that sleeping in the same bed is sacred but for us we don't care as long as everyone sleeps.

Oh- and I wanted to add that rice cereal is not a cure all for nighttime waking. Some kids process that just as fast and some kids get a stomach ache and gas from it.

 

[sparklynails23]

Cry it out makes me think of those teen moms on MTV. The mom's are constantly letting those babies CIO and saying "he's ok" so they can have some inane fight/discussion with their boyfriends. I don't know how the camera crews can stand it.

 

[mjkacmom]

Cry it out makes me think of those teen moms on MTV. The mom's are constantly letting those babies CIO and saying "he's ok" so they can have some inane fight/discussion with their boyfriends. I don't know how the camera crews can stand it.

I think there is a big difference between teens on TV, and loving parents who've spent time researching different CIO methods, and the rationals behind them, choosing a method they feel comfortable with, and following it. The method we used involved letting the child fall asleep naturally (no rocking or feeding), going to the child when crying, little back rubs, leaving, starting with 5 minute incriments of time, leveling off at 15 minutes.

 

[hsmamato2]

I do however think that allowing a child to co-sleep so that they can feed, snuggle, ect on demand and on their own terms can start a pattern of making excuses and letting them control the situation. "oh she's just a difficult/ high need baby" ect. Can often be the beginnig of the type of parenting you are describing. We all know that it is much easier to give in to what a child wants than to deal with the fallout form saying no,

I see what you're saying,b/c I know some parents who start things that way,and it escalates and they end up with a demanding child that runs the house. HOWEVER..... a BABY-a true baby,is not demanding,controlling,or trying to run things. They are simply expressing their needs in the only way they are able at that point. And I do say NEEDS here.
a high needs BABY is not an imaginary creature that some of us foolish parents create in our minds to excuse ourselves from responsibility. Any parent who thinks that must have been lucky enough to have only experienced the easier type of personality baby. I've had both,and I know of what I speak. Both my kids coslept,I am heartily in favor of it. They both have excellent manners,are independent,and have slept alone since they were about 2 1/2 years old. There's a big difference between bratty children and needy babies.
I hope OP is getting some good ideas,and getting some rest by now!

 

[princessmom29]

I see what you're saying,b/c I know some parents who start things that way,and it escalates and they end up with a demanding child that runs the house. HOWEVER..... a BABY-a true baby,is not demanding,controlling,or trying to run things. They are simply expressing their needs in the only way they are able at that point. And I do say NEEDS here.
a high needs BABY is not an imaginary creature that some of us foolish parents create in our minds to excuse ourselves from responsibility. Any parent who thinks that must have been lucky enough to have only experienced the easier type of personality baby. I've had both,and I know of what I speak. Both my kids coslept,I am heartily in favor of it. They both have excellent manners,are independent,and have slept alone since they were about 2 1/2 years old. There's a big difference between bratty children and needy babies.
I hope OP is getting some good ideas,and getting some rest by now!

Beleive me I understand high needs. My dd had severe colic and never slept more than an hour at a time the first 4 weeks. She cried almost constantly when awake. I never remeber her ever just being contented at any point in the 7 weeks I was off work. She was constantly fretful. It was to the point that the ped offered me a sedative drop for her. I didn't take him up on it because I didn't like the idea of drugging a baby, but also for the same reason I refused to put her in the bed with me. I saw bouth as a crutch that I could use to get thorugh it, but in the long run was not the best thing for my baby. Sure it would make my life easier, but was it really fair to her to set her up for needing to sleep with me to feel safe and secure? I didn't think so, and we toughed out getting up with her. I thought I was in heaven when she stated sleeping 3 hours at a time at 3 months old. She rapidly progresed from there to sleeping 6 hours by 6 months, and then had pretty much a normal sleep schedule. We had one day in the third week where she cried for 12 straight hours, never sleeping even when being held, walked ect. beleive me I have been there, but I never put her in the bed with me. I was just not going to start doing it and not be able to get here out later b/c I had seen it so many times. We took it in shifts and traded off sleepless nights. Her needs got met, but not by putting her in the bed with us. I don't think any baby really NEEDS to sleep in the same bed with mom and dad. I don't think it's safe and I think it allows both parent and baby to establish a habit that becoems harder to break the longer baby is in that bed. I have personally never met anyone who had a baby in their bed on a regular basis who has not had difficulty getting them to sleep on thier own. I didn't want to set myself up for dealing with a toddler who didn't want to sleep in thier own bed. A 2 year old in the bed with me was the nightmare situation I was trying to avoid.

 

[princessmom29]

I think there is a big difference between teens on TV, and loving parents who've spent time researching different CIO methods, and the rationals behind them, choosing a method they feel comfortable with, and following it. The method we used involved letting the child fall asleep naturally (no rocking or feeding), going to the child when crying, little back rubs, leaving, starting with 5 minute incriments of time, leveling off at 15 minutes.

exactly. It is not like you just leave a kid in a room alone to figure it out. You are easing them through a necessary transition. There is a big difference between that and ignoring the needs of a crying child. Letting DD CIO when she finally got over her colic was one of the hardest things I have ever done, but also one of the best gifts i have ever given my family. From the time she was a year old I could tell her it was beditime and got no argument, crying or begging. She went to her bed, got her hugs and kisses, and went to sleep. It has been that way ever since, and I really feel it is at least in part due to setting the precedent early on for doing so and keeping up a consistent routine.

 

[sparklynails23]

An interesting study would be to compare IQ's of kids who cried it out as babies and those who didn't. It would be like that recent spanking study. Any child care researchers out there?

 

[mjkacmom]

an interesting study would be to compare iq's of kids who cried it out as babies and those who didn't. It would be like that recent spanking study. Any child care researchers out there?

130.

 

[sparklynails23]

130.

Mine's higher, of course but you would need a representative cross-section of the poulation to normalize for other factors.

 

[SmallWorld71]

OP- I hope you are getting some sleep and not reading my response!

I've only read the first two and the last two pages of responses and wanted to throw in something that I didn't see. Is you little one eating any solids yet? My DD was a big baby (almost 10 pounds at birth) and gained rapidly. She was exclusively breastfed and wouldn't take a bottle at all. I became a human feeding machine. Her pedi suggested starting her on some rice cereal. She did fine on it and it helped some. I realize not every baby has the physical ability to eat at this age, but most do. Just a thought.

Also, while it can be very easy to get into the CIO/ co-sleeping etc... debates, the one thing to realize is that no method works for every baby. I used to frown upon those parents who couldn't get their babies to sleep through the night, brought them to bed etc... until I was in that situation. DD was a terrible sleeper. She was colicy and did not nap during the day. Co-sleeping was definitely the answer for us. CIO did not work, she would scream until she passed out, literally! She just hated being alone. (She was a thumb sucker starting at 4 mos. and had no trouble self-soothing; she just wanted company.) We did try to move her back into her crib, but when she was about 12 mos. old we found her hanging from the side of it. She had been trying to get out!That was the end of a crib for her. We converted it into a toddler bed. We would put her to bed in her bed and she would crawl into ours in the night. Interestingly, we eventually found out that it wasn't us she was after; it was companionship. She slept just as well in her brothers' room as she did in ours. So, until she was about 4, she slept in either their room or ours and eventually moved completely into her own room. FWIW, she is now a very outgoing, independent first grader who bears no ill effects from her co-sleeping days. In fact, she has always been the most independent of my children. Where she slept at night, really had no bearing on our day to day happenings.

What I'm trying to say is that there are a ton of opinions out there and all are right in their own way. You have to find what works for you and your particular baby.

Good luck!

 

[peemagg]

I'm going to suggest something that most Pediatricians frown upon, but I have seen it work many times. That is at that age they are going through a growth spurt and formula or breast milk is just not enough to hold some babies. I would suggest maybe a little cereal before she goes to bed. Just some very thin in a bottle before bed. The little bit of cereal will hold them longer so they sleep more.

Just an idea, take it for what it is worth, but have seen it work and no issues later in life like Dr's like to tell us would happen (they are human and make mistakes too).

 

[SmallWorld71]

I'm going to suggest something that most Pediatricians frown upon, but I have seen it work many times. That is at that age they are going through a growth spurt and formula or breast milk is just not enough to hold some babies. I would suggest maybe a little cereal before she goes to bed. Just some very thin in a bottle before bed. The little bit of cereal will hold them longer so they sleep more.

Just an idea, take it for what it is worth, but have seen it work and no issues later in life like Dr's like to tell us would happen (they are human and make mistakes too).

Just wanted to add that medicine droppers can be used for those bfed babies who won't take a bottle.

 

[smidgy]

As for the "marriage bed" well, I don't know about you and you are certainly entitled to your opinion but we are a little more creative than just our bed. .