Have you seen this?

[FireDancer]

Speaking of brakes, if i recall correctly, bikes have 2 sets of brakes that can be applied one with the foot and one with the hands. which one is which, im not too sure.

I'm sure there are exceptions but usually the front breaks are applied with a hand lever and the rear with a foot pedal.

 

[Imzadi]

The mere fact they decided to chase him down instead of just call the police makes it pretty clear they are nuts or vigilantes or worse so if I were driving that SUV I'd assume their goal is to surround, corner, and attack me. I'd use my vehicle as a weapon in that scenario too. It is best to do it at high speed on the freeway so they can't get to your tires, smash your windows, and pull you out. He really should have been swerving left and right to get the bikes surrounding him and never got off the freeway. Staying on the freeway would have also made it easier for the police or highway patrol to intervene.

I was thinking the same thing the first time I looked at the video. I know the West Side Highway like the back of my hand. I probably would have done exactly what you described, if I could.

The altercation started near 125th St on the West Side highway. In two minutes, the driver would have been at the exit to cross the George Washington Bridge. But, he turned off to go back into the city, and the street traffic.

If he had gone across the bridge and the altercation happened ON the bridge, there is so much police presence as vigilance of a terrorist attack, that the Bridge Police would have gotten there sooner.

Or, once the driver crossed to NJ, the attack, which started in NY, would have become an interstate crime, and the FBI would now be involved.

However, take a look at this close up picture below, which I posted yesterday, of the SUV driver, down on the ground and surrounded by two bystanders, with their arms out, holding the area around the SUV driver in a "Do not cross this area" pose. While the riders are on their bikes, getting ready to drive off. These bystanders could have intervened, and the SUV driver only received the beating and slashes he got, instead of being beaten to death or knifed to death.

Had the driver been stopped on the George Washington Bridge, I doubt other people in the cars would have gotten out of their cars to help him. There also is only highway on the other side of the bridge. No pedestrians. He was driving on slashed tires that made his car hard to drive forward, let alone maneuver back & forth. He wouldn't have gotten far across the bridge or on the highway. Being beaten there, with no bystanders stopping the riders, could have been fatal for the SUV driver. Turning onto busy city streets may have been the best thing the driver could have done.


Warning: Picture link shows graphic violence. Not for the faint of heart. Open at your own risk.
http://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/biokiegang1.jpg


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[Shutterbug]

I have no sympathy for these bikers. Even if the Range Rover did initially hit a biker without provocation (which I don't believe) the proper thing to do is get the license plate number and call the police, not chase him down and surround him. The biker who pulled in front of the SUV and slowed down so he'd be hit is an idiot. Doing that in a car makes you a idiot, doing it on a bike is even worse.

The mere fact they decided to chase him down instead of just call the police makes it pretty clear they are nuts or vigilantes or worse so if I were driving that SUV I'd assume their goal is to surround, corner, and attack me. I'd use my vehicle as a weapon in that scenario too. It is best to do it at high speed on the freeway so they can't get to your tires, smash your windows, and pull you out. He really should have been swerving left and right to get the bikes surrounding him and never got off the freeway. Staying on the freeway would have also made it easier for the police or highway patrol to intervene.

These "stunt riders" have been around a while and this isn't the first time they have caused problems. Looking at the prior actions of these bikers both in the past and this case I think the less of them out there the better. This event didn't happen in isolation. It happened as part of a pattern. <expletive deleted> them.

If this had happened in Ohio, which is a C&C state, the results could have been different. Instead of one injured biker its quite possible there would have been several dead ones.

I too have seen reckless motorcyclist. I had one come up behind me on a busy freeway doing a wheelie through the traffic, then race off to the next exit...with no license plate of course.

I have also seen them do the whole braking to slow down traffic to clear the road in front of them.

 

[Shutterbug]

There is no video showing the attack. Whoever posted the video either cut it off or edited it before posting. However, there are photos of the driver face down on the pavement, unconscious, and covered with blood. There's no doubt that he was attacked by this group of bikers, and there are witnesses. That there's no video available of the attack is secondary. It's pretty obvious that this group beat him up.

One of the members of this group posted several videos of their dangerous antics during this ride. He deleted them but not before some one else had got them downloaded and posted them elsewhere. I even saw them show up on Lady GaGa's youtube page.

 

[Imzadi]

To be honest, i can see why OP would say there are no brakes. It really doesnt look like he hit the brakes at all. Im guessing its probably engine braking though...

Speaking of brakes, if i recall correctly, bikes have 2 sets of brakes that can be applied one with the foot and one with the hands. which one is which, im not too sure.

Sympathy for the biker? Tried, but nearly impossible. :\ I mean, regardless of what happen, the guy who is paralyzed shouldnt have been there in the first place. guy doesnt even have a license to drive a car let alone a bike...

He did hit the brakes. I distinctly recall Diane Sawyer describing what happened as they showed closeups of the video, and slowed it down in frame by frame action. It might be online at World News Tonight. You see the driver, riding with all the other riders. Then he turns around as he brake checks. It is clear that his distance & proximity to the other riders is farther away as they are still going the same speed, and unfortunately, the SUV, is also going the same speed in relation to everyone but that rider. It is heading toward the rear of the bike. Then they show the SUV unable to slow or stop in time, hitting the bike.


As for sympathy for the biker who was paralyzed? My thought is, I wish it had happened to the rider who started it all by brake checking. THAT would have been justice. But, I see this type of thing happen a lot. Drunk drivers kill people and they get out of the incident without a scratch or only a broken leg. meanwhile other lives are ruined.

 

[Elinor Dashwood]

I have no sympathy for these bikers. Even if the Range Rover did initially hit a biker without provocation (which I don't believe) the proper thing to do is get the license plate number and call the police, not chase him down and surround him. The biker who pulled in front of the SUV and slowed down so he'd be hit is an idiot. Doing that in a car makes you a idiot, doing it on a bike is even worse.

The mere fact they decided to chase him down instead of just call the police makes it pretty clear they are nuts or vigilantes or worse so if I were driving that SUV I'd assume their goal is to surround, corner, and attack me. I'd use my vehicle as a weapon in that scenario too. It is best to do it at high speed on the freeway so they can't get to your tires, smash your windows, and pull you out. He really should have been swerving left and right to get the bikes surrounding him and never got off the freeway. Staying on the freeway would have also made it easier for the police or highway patrol to intervene.

These "stunt riders" have been around a while and this isn't the first time they have caused problems. Looking at the prior actions of these bikers both in the past and this case I think the less of them out there the better. This event didn't happen in isolation. It happened as part of a pattern. <expletive deleted> them.

I agree. The video footage was unbelievable. They swarmed the SUV. I would consider that hostile behavior, especially if I had to worry about my child's safety as well.

We don't know if the driver intended to run over that biker or was just frantically trying to get away from a dangerous situation. I cannot believe the way those bikers pursued him though! They were reckless as they swarmed that SUV on the freeway. It looked like a web of bikers, they were in all lanes and in between lanes. Thank God nobody else was hurt while they carried on like this. And it's disgusting that they smashed that SUV's window and dragged that guy out. Nice, let's see, there about 10-15 bikers it looks like against a man with his family in the car. Crazy.

 

[Albort]

He did hit the brakes. I distinctly recall Diane Sawyer describing what happened as they showed closeups of the video, and slowed it down in frame by frame action. It might be online at World News Tonight. You see the driver, riding with all the other riders. Then he turns around as he brake checks. It is clear that his distance & proximity to the other riders is farther away as they are still going the same speed, and unfortunately, the SUV, is also going the same speed in relation to everyone but that rider. It is heading toward the rear of the bike. Then they show the SUV unable to slow or stop in time, hitting the bike.


As for sympathy for the biker who was paralyzed? My thought is, I wish it had happened to the rider who started it all by brake checking. THAT would have been justice. But, I see this type of thing happen a lot. Drunk drivers kill people and they get out of the incident without a scratch or only a broken leg. meanwhile other lives are ruined.

your right, i checked the video again, he did infact hit the brakes...

on the bright side, at least the brake checker is arrested... but that doesnt solve the paralyzed man's problems...

i was just wondering the same thing, if i was driving and get into a fender bender... all the cars around me stop with me and get out of the car... id be wondering whats going on!!!

 

[Imzadi]

If this had happened in Ohio, which is a C&C state, the results could have been different. Instead of one injured biker its quite possible there would have been several dead ones.

I too have seen reckless motorcyclist. I had one come up behind me on a busy freeway doing a wheelie through the traffic, then race off to the next exit...with no license plate of course.

I have also seen them do the whole braking to slow down traffic to clear the road in front of them.

What's a C&C state?

 

[Elinor Dashwood]

I was thinking the same thing the first time I looked at the video. I know the West Side Highway like the back of my hand. I probably would have done exactly what you described, if I could.

The altercation started near 125th St on the West Side highway. In two minutes, the driver would have been at the exit to cross the George Washington Bridge. But, he turned off to go back into the city, and the street traffic.

If he had gone across the bridge and the altercation happened ON the bridge, there is so much police presence as vigilance of a terrorist attack, that the Bridge Police would have gotten there sooner.

Or, once the driver crossed to NJ, the attack, which started in NY, would have become an interstate crime, and the FBI would now be involved.

However, take a look at this close up picture below, which I posted yesterday, of the SUV driver, down on the ground and surrounded by two bystanders, with their arms out, holding the area around the SUV driver in a "Do not cross this area" pose. While the riders are on their bikes, getting ready to drive off. These bystanders could have intervened, and the SUV driver only received the beating and slashes he got, instead of being beaten to death or knifed to death.

Had the driver been stopped on the George Washington Bridge, I doubt other people in the cars would have gotten out of their cars to help him. There also is only highway on the other side of the bridge. No pedestrians. He was driving on slashed tires that made his car hard to drive forward, let alone maneuver back & forth. He wouldn't have gotten far across the bridge or on the highway. Being beaten there, with no bystanders stopping the riders, could have been fatal for the SUV driver. Turning onto busy city streets may have been the best thing the driver could have done.


Warning: Picture link shows graphic violence. Not for the faint of heart. Open at your own risk.
http://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/biokiegang1.jpg


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OMG, that picture is awful! And it appears that the passenger's window was smashed as well! WTH? This is so crazy.

 

[Elinor Dashwood]

What's a C&C state?

I think it might stand for conceal and carry? I'm not sure though.

 

[Shutterbug]

I think it might stand for conceal and carry? I'm not sure though.

You are correct.

 

[Oreo Cookie]

What's a C&C state?

Conceal and carry. They are saying if the drive was in a C&C state they would have had a gun and could of shot the thugs. I don't think that's the right attitude to have either. If it is possible, we should remove ourselves from a situation with a little violence, or death, as possible.

I feel horrible for the driver of the SUV, Alexian Lien, and his family. It had to be very terrifying. These thugs, and yes they are thugs not bikers, were out causing trouble. They surrounded his SUV. I would have been in fear for my life too.

Lien only had two choices, stay where he was and have a gang of thugs coming towards you, or remove yourself from the threat. He chose to remove himself, and I would have done the same. He didn't purposely run over the biker, he had no choice. They were blocking him on purpose.

I do have sympathy for the man who is in critical condition. I wouldn't want someone to be paralyzed, but that doesn't mean that Lien did anything wrong. The thugs were attempting to illegally detain him, and potentially cause great bodily harm. After he left, they chased him, and beat him up and knifed him. Not to mention the damage done to his car. Also, consider the emotional and psychological damage done to him, his wife and their child.

The police received many calls on Sunday regarding these thugs and their actions. There are several videos that show what they were doing that day. They were weaving amongst traffic, riding on the shoulder, running red lights. Heck, some of the bikes are not suppose to be on the street. I hope they are prosecuted to the fullest extent possible.

 

[Imzadi]

I think it might stand for conceal and carry? I'm not sure though.

You are correct.

<Sigh!> I wish we had conceal and carry in this city. We have one of the strictest gun laws in the country. Residents cannot even own a gun in their homes, let alone conceal carry. Unless they are law enforcement, security guards and the like. I remember my former martial arts teacher had to carry the gun she brought to show us, in a big, metal case, that is an obvious gun case.

I've said this before, I envy Texas gun laws.

If that SUV driver had a licensed/permitted(?) gun on him and he just waved it inside the car at everyone, more than that one rider would have brake checked and just let the car go, the first time they surrounded him. This whole thing might have been a non-incident.

 

[Albort]

OMG, that picture is awful! And it appears that the passenger's window was smashed as well! WTH? This is so crazy.

rear window is smashed too... i dunno the purpose of that...

 

[Shutterbug]

rear window is smashed too... i dunno the purpose of that...

I read the smashed back window happened when the SUV was surrounded the first time by motorcyclists. Something that might have lead to the driver hitting the gas to get away. He thought he was being attacked.

 

[FireDancer]

The problem with C & C (and I am in support of C & C laws mind you) is that in this situation it might not have helped and even caused more problems. First, if it were a C & C state some of the bikers might have had guns too, not just the SUV driver. Second, I am in a C & C state and can name 3 people who aren't in law enforcement that I know have one so the driver is more likely to still have not had a weapon then the other way around. Third, waving a gun around while in a high speed chase and probably nervous or panicked isn't exactly a recipe for success.

Yes, the fact we are a C & C state might have caused the motorcycle riders to give a second thought to chasing anyone because they could be armed but that is assuming they are rational thinkers which nothing about this story indicates. I really do think that the main advantage of having C & C laws isn't that people are carrying guns all around you. It is the possibility that anyone can be carrying so hopefully you don't try anything to begin with.

 

[Elinor Dashwood]

I read the smashed back window happened when the SUV was surrounded the first time by motorcyclists. Something that might have lead to the driver hitting the gas to get away. He thought he was being attacked.

Oh my word, I would've crapped my pants! I didn't realize the back window was smashed BEFORE the SUV tried to get away! There's no way the driver could know what the exact intentions were of that biker group who had smashed his rear window and slashed his tires! Good God, no way would I have hung around trying to hyperanalyze their actions.

 

[iheartdisney]

whatever the bikers did until the point of the bump was being jerks, can't use any other words on this forum. But to take it to the level that he did by running over someone else.... that is just too much. It doesn't say if the SUV driver called the police or anything when it happens. The wife could have been calling as the bump occurred and the police could have been there. It's all so stupid and one innocent guy pays.

Sorry, but if you are a member of a gang, engaging in gang activities, you are not the "innocent guy"

 

[Imzadi]

rear window is smashed too... i dunno the purpose of that...

Pictures show one guy smashing in the driver side window. A second person hitting the rear window, where the child was strapped in the back. And another picture of someone hitting the rear window. these people were intent on getting IN.

We have verbal altercations all the time in the city. We have new cab drivers, from other countries, who this is their first time driving in the U.S., let alone the city. They often cut off bike messenger and other cars all the time. The bike messengers do that too, to cars. Some pedestrians nearly get run over. So someone is always yelling at someone over an almost accident.

Every once in a while, I see someone who almost got run over, pound on the hood of a car, or kick the fender or the side door. There is a famous movie clip from Midnight Cowboy, where Dustin Hoffman is crossing the street, and the driver barely stopping in time and Dustin pound on the hood, shouting "I'm walking here!"

Sometimes, the person will pound on the window for the driver to roll down the window, so he can yell at him face to face. (The driver is stuck at the red light and can't speed away.) Rarely, a driver may actually get out and the two will have a verbal spat. Only once have I seen two people start wrestling and shoving each other. And someone intervened, pull them apart. And the driver drives off.

This incident with the bikers was very different. They were armed with their helmets, and at least one guy with a knife. As soon as he took out the knife to slash the tires, he escalated the whole thing by having a dangerous weapon. A guy pulls out a knife, it's not a far stretch to fear him using that knife on you and your family once he's through with the tires. That gang had the comfort and impetus of the mob mentality. Safety in numbers. They fed off of each other.

Anyone who's ever watched the street videos of the wilding on the streets of L.A., after the Rodney King verdict was announced, where a trucker turned down the wrong street, and was pulled out of his truck and beaten on the street, has to fear that same thing, when surrounded by a mob of crazy, frenzied people.

The thing is, that DID happen to this SUV driver, too. How can anyone say that wasn't likely to happen, the mob wasn't capable of doing that, when in fact, it did happen? These people were capable of doing that whether someone got run over or not. And they did commit violence.

 

[Imzadi]

I read the smashed back window happened when the SUV was surrounded the first time by motorcyclists. Something that might have lead to the driver hitting the gas to get away. He thought he was being attacked.

Here is the picture of someone smashing the rear window. It happened just before the the man was beaten. You can see the silver car in the upper left of the picture is the same one of him after he was beaten and lying on the ground, surrounded by men who are keeping others away from the SUV driver. (Next picture linked.)

Here is the picture of of the SUV driver lying on the ground after being beaten. Look at the rear window. It's completely smashed out.

Warning: This Picture link shows graphic violence. Not for the faint of heart. Open at your own risk.
http://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/biokiegang1.jpg


And in this picture, the driver side window is completely peeled down against the door. Can anyone say, they only wanted to open a window to talk to the SUV driver? Their intent was plainly to get in to the SUV.