Guest Assistance Cards ending, to be replaced with Fastpasses?

[DisneyKevin]

So basically, you're saying that the non-disabled kids in line don't deserve to enjoy Disney as much as kids with ASD.

No...that's not what I'm saying and I'm sure you know that.

I'm sorry that you even felt the need to ask.

i would hope that you would see that when a child runs to the tea cups (not accessible to some that cant transfer) or Autopia or Expedition Everest that the playing field isnt really level.

As humans, we have the opportunity to be graceful and kind to one another. Making an accommodation for a kid that can not enjoy the park in the same way another child might is one of those ways. Letting someone into a line of traffic even when your in a hurry is another. Letting someone with one item go in front of you at check out is another.

Is there room for abuse..yes....but as I age, the fact that someone might get an extra ride or wait 30 minutes less doesnt seem like such a big deal.

 

[OurBigTrip]

First, it is not reasonable accommodation. That is an employment standard.
Second, I don't think you really understand reasonable accommodation. That's understandable but an employer can and must at times upset co-workers (as long as there is not an "undue burden" on the co-workers) by providing a reasonable accommodation.
Third, Disney is subject to the public accommodation provisions which prohibit it from discrimination on the basis of disability in the "full and equal enjoyment" of the services Disney provides and, if we believe the California federal courts, Disney must make reasonable accommodations to permit the full and equal enjoyment. 22 years later, it is still not clear what "full and equal enjoyment" requires but it sure doesn't mean refusing an accommodation to a disabled guest because it might make someone else wait longer in line.

You may not be able to define what full and equal enjoyment is, but I can certainly define what full and equal enjoyment isn't.

A disabled child riding an attraction seven times with no wait while non-disabled children wait an hour or more to ride one time, with no repeat ride permitted unless they wait again.

Would you consider that full and equal enjoyment?

 

[mefordis]

I'm all for equal accommodation. Having an alternative way to wait your turn is exactly that and I am all for it. That is adding gray to black and white.

All of us go to Disney and have to wait. It is what going to a popular amusement park mean and it should mean that for everyone. I applaud a system that allows those who can't wait in line an alternative way to wait but no system should say person A through Y have to wait their turn while person Z can just skip the wait not only once but repeatedly. That is just a crappy system.

I dont think there is any way this system can hold up. The more people find out about it the more it will get utilized and we will have 50 people riding the same ride over and over while the stand by line is 90 mins long.

 

[OurBigTrip]

No...that's not what I'm saying and I'm sure you know that.

I'm sorry that you even felt the need to ask.

i would hope that you would see that when a child runs to the tea cups (not accessible to some that cant transfer) or Autopia or Expedition Everest that the playing field isnt really level.

As humans, we have the opportunity to be graceful and kind to one another. Making an accommodation for a kid that can not enjoy the park in the same way another child might is one of those ways. Letting someone into a line of traffic even when your in a hurry is another. Letting someone with one item go in front of you at check out is another.

Is there room for abuse..yes....but as I age, the fact that someone might get an extra ride or wait 30 minutes less doesnt seem like such a big deal.

Allowing a child to ride an attraction seven times with no wait while other children wait an hour or more to ride just one time isn't a level playing field either. And when that's permitted, it is flat out saying that one child's enjoyment is more important than another child's,that one child is more special than another child.

Special needs does not equal special.

 

[DisneyKevin]

Allowing a child to ride an attraction seven times with no wait while other children wait an hour or more to ride just one time isn't a level playing field either. And when that's permitted, it is flat out saying that one child's enjoyment is more important than another child's,that one child is more special than another child.

Special needs does not equal special.

We will never agree on this.

I'm glad Disney sees things differently.

 

[OurBigTrip]

We will never agree on this.

I'm glad Disney sees things differently.

If you believe that it's right to let a child ride as many times as he or she wants, no matter how long the line, while making other children watch and wait to ride just once, and if you believe that special needs equals special, then you're right, we'll never agree.

Whereas I favor equal access, you favor privileged access. And privileged access is not what the ADA was supposed to be about.

 

[FireDancer]

I dont think there is any way this system can hold up. The more people find out about it the more it will get utilized and we will have 50 people riding the same ride over and over while the stand by line is 90 mins long.

I think it will go away in time. I think right now they are placating the people claiming that they need to ride something repeatedly because they are dealing with so many other changes. Besides being unfair to everyone waiting in line it is just screaming out asking for abuse. We'll see.

As humans, we have the opportunity to be graceful and kind to one another. Making an accommodation for a kid that can not enjoy the park in the same way another child might is one of those ways.

Which is why having an alternative way to wait is great. I'm all for it. It makes an accommodation for that kid without giving him better access then everyone else waiting in line.

Letting someone into a line of traffic even when your in a hurry is another. Letting someone with one item go in front of you at check out is another.

Those are both nice gestures. Letting someone who is standing behind you in line at Disney go in front of you is another nice gesture. But DAS is a company policy, not a nice gesture. To equate DAS to your two examples you'd have to make it a law that you let others cut into a line of traffic while you are in a hurry or the store would have to have a policy that you have to let someone standing behind you in line with one item cut in front of you. Those would both be wrong. Just as it would be wrong if you were in a line of 20 at the grocery store to let someone who just got to the end of that line cut in front of you. Letting the guy behind you go ahead is making a decision for yourself. Letting a guy cut 19 other people is making a unilateral decision for 19 other people and that is also wrong and that is what some implementations of DAS are doing.

Every person at Disney is just as special as every other person. No more, no less. I wish Disney would make sure that none of their DAS policies gave any advantage to those using them over standard guests. They should be a way to level the playing field as much as possible without ever over correcting that playing field.

 

[doconeill]

The discussion on the "looping", which I hadn't heard about until today, reminds me of the Tower of Terror case of the woman who was told she could no longer repeatedly ride ToT as it was felt she was taking advantage of her GAC excessively, while she claimed it aided her with her physical condition.

Disney's argument against her in the lawsuit was that Disney is not a provider of medical services or physical therapy.

But doesn't allowing such "looping" to accommodate those who's disability in some way demands it basically say the opposite? Could Disney be painting itself into a legal corner?

 

[OurBigTrip]

The discussion on the "looping", which I hadn't heard about until today, reminds me of the Tower of Terror case of the woman who was told she could no longer repeatedly ride ToT as it was felt she was taking advantage of her GAC excessively, while she claimed it aided her with her physical condition.

Disney's argument against her in the lawsuit was that Disney is not a provider of medical services or physical therapy.

But doesn't allowing such "looping" to accommodate those who's disability in some way demands it basically say the opposite? Could Disney be painting itself into a legal corner?

I would think only if someone sues Disney due to the fact that are providing unequal, privileged access to some people. Then if Disney comes back and says it's a medical necessity, as so many parents claim, then they will have gone against their own arguments in the previous case.

 

[DisneyKevin]

If you believe that it's right to let a child ride as many times as he or she wants, no matter how long the line, while making other children watch and wait to ride just once, and if you believe that special needs equals special, then you're right, we'll never agree.

Whereas I favor equal access, you favor privileged access. And privileged access is not what the ADA was supposed to be about.

Your attempt to interpret what I'm saying is incorrect.

 

[Granny square]

The hard part of seeing rationalization for looping is that there are plenty of kids waiting in the lines with issues too. The 1 in 88 holds true for them too. The fact that their parents might not even know about accommodations or believe that their children should wait like others are waiting and waiting. Or the kids that have ADHD, OCD, cp, or other disorders.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Your attempt to interpret what I'm saying is incorrect.

Fair enough - then what part of what I said do you disagree with? Perhaps we agree on something after all.

 

[ZehnJahren]

Just as it would be wrong if you were in a line of 20 at the grocery store to let someone who just got to the end of that line cut in front of you. Letting the guy behind you go ahead is making a decision for yourself. Letting a guy cut 19 other people is making a unilateral decision for 19 other people and that is also wrong and that is what some implementations of DAS are doing.

Every person at Disney is just as special as every other person. No more, no less.

I think this is a good way to put it.

Disney is making a decision to let hundreds of people go ahead of you in line. They had to stop making that decision, and it's hard for the people used to going ahead of you to now stop moving to the front of the line. Very understandable.

I am one of those people who pretty much ALWAYS lets someone in front of me at the grocery store when they get behind me with just a couple of items. I think it's just being nice. But if I were in line with a guy behind me who had a cart full, and someone came up behind them with just one item, I wouldn't ask them to go ahead of me. I can't make the decision for the guy behind me, just me.

I completely understand that someone with autism doesn't understand or can't handle being told they have to wait. I therefore think that in the cases where the child "CANNOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES WAIT IN LINE" that Disney is a very poor vacation choice, as bad as it is for an adult with claustrophobia to go to the parks on Christmas Day. I am constantly surprised by the number of people who say their child can't wait in lines, or be in crowded places, or stay out in the heat - - and then go to Disney in June and expect front of the line access. It makes it very clear who the vacation is actually for - and it's not the child.

 

[Granny square]

I think this is a good way to put it. Disney is making a decision to let hundreds of people go ahead of you in line. They had to stop making that decision, and it's hard for the people used to going ahead of you to now stop moving to the front of the line. Very understandable. I am one of those people who pretty much ALWAYS lets someone in front of me at the grocery store when they get behind me with just a couple of items. I think it's just being nice. But if I were in line with a guy behind me who had a cart full, and someone came up behind them with just one item, I wouldn't ask them to go ahead of me. I can't make the decision for the guy behind me, just me. I completely understand that someone with autism doesn't understand or can't handle being told they have to wait. I therefore think that in the cases where the child "CANNOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES WAIT IN LINE" that Disney is a very poor vacation choice, as bad as it is for an adult with claustrophobia to go to the parks on Christmas Day. I am constantly surprised by the number of people who say their child can't wait in lines, or be in crowded places, or stay out in the heat - - and then go to Disney in June and expect front of the line access (not to mention out to stores on Black Friday, or to water parks in July, etc). It makes it very clear who the vacation is actually for - and it's not the child.

I agree. It is like the screwed up crazy lady who made the videos. Really? If your huge kid is going to beat you up if they can't do what they want then Disney is not your biggest concern.

 

[livndisney]

You may not be able to define what full and equal enjoyment is, but I can certainly define what full and equal enjoyment isn't.

A disabled child riding an attraction seven times with no wait while non-disabled children wait an hour or more to ride one time, with no repeat ride permitted unless they wait again.

Would you consider that full and equal enjoyment?

Let's be clear here- this is not for ALL disabled children, just those with Autism. (Based on reports).

 

[nugov2]

No...that's not what I'm saying and I'm sure you know that.

I'm sorry that you even felt the need to ask.

i would hope that you would see that when a child runs to the tea cups (not accessible to some that cant transfer) or Autopia or Expedition Everest that the playing field isnt really level.

As humans, we have the opportunity to be graceful and kind to one another. Making an accommodation for a kid that can not enjoy the park in the same way another child might is one of those ways. Letting someone into a line of traffic even when your in a hurry is another. Letting someone with one item go in front of you at check out is another.

Is there room for abuse..yes....but as I age, the fact that someone might get an extra ride or wait 30 minutes less doesnt seem like such a big deal.

I agree with what you are saying, but would you let 15 cars go in front of you...how about 5 people in front of you at the check out line? Being graceful and kind stops being that when the person you are showing a kindness too is taken advantage of it. Riding a ride 5 times in a row to move on to the next and do it again, is taking advantage of a system. I think a reasonable accommodation would be one ride per park per day that you loop 3 times. Then you have to wait for the others or use your FP+ reservations. I think WDW will have to draw the line somewhere because in a lot of ways they have gotten so much publicity that more people will scam/abuse the system than were with GAC. Honestly from what I have read on blogs it is the community that needs the GAC/DAS that are the biggest ones abusing it. It that old saying give you an inch you take a mile. It isn't in reference to everyone, but I seriously doubt that even half of the people with a child on the spectrum using the pass needed FP entrance or the option to loop for every ride, but did it because they could. It is human nature.

I am curious what types of accommodations those same families use at the airport, driving long distance, pumpkin farm, petting zoo, carnivals, children's museum...the list is endless. I do not have a child on the spectrum, but do have a child in my family and I know they do not skip out on all of these events, they weather the storm and sometimes leave if it gets too bad. They certainly do not forgo any activity so there is still the experience of waiting and not getting what you want/need right when you want it. I get everyday is a struggle and WDW is a vacation where you want to blow off steam and have a great experience, but I have to agree with a pp who said where do you draw the line. It is a tough situation all the way around, that WDW go themselves into, but the DAS is a reasonable accommodation and giving out endless loops will just get them right back to where they were, except for worse with all the publicity in no time.

 

[Stacy's a freak]

I completely understand that someone with autism doesn't understand or can't handle being told they have to wait. I therefore think that in the cases where the child "CANNOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES WAIT IN LINE" that Disney is a very poor vacation choice, as bad as it is for an adult with claustrophobia to go to the parks on Christmas Day. I am constantly surprised by the number of people who say their child can't wait in lines, or be in crowded places, or stay out in the heat - - and then go to Disney in June and expect front of the line access. It makes it very clear who the vacation is actually for - and it's not the child.

This is a really good point that I hadn't thought of. It's hard to know if a trip to WDW truly is enjoyable for, in this example, an autistic kid. We have no idea of he/she is enjoying things ... you just have to hope that the parents know and are doing what is best for their own children. It's not our jobs to judge or make those choices for others and their children.

As for "equal enjoyment", there is no way to evaluate such thing. There is no way to compare enjoyment between little Sally and little Jimmy. It's too subjective.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Let's be clear here- this is not for ALL disabled children, just those with Autism. (Based on reports).

It doesn't matter - no one, except for Wish kids, should have that kind of preferred access.

 

[livndisney]

It doesn't matter - no one, except for Wish kids, should have that kind of preferred access.

I think you missed my point. The access being given is not for all disabled children. Just one group of disabilities. So waiting in line are all the other children AND other children with disabilities other than autism. Not what I call equal.

 

[OurBigTrip]

I think you missed my point. The access being given is not for all disabled children. Just one group of disabilities. So waiting in line are all the other children AND other children with disabilities other than autism. Not what I call equal.

My bad - I completely misunderstood!! Thanks for clarifying!