Getting very tired of resale brokers who feel like ghosting is OK. Marking them off my list one by one.

[thelionqueen]

Hahahaha. I was offering $100 for RIV like crazy a few months ago as well! I got one. Kinda wish I had gotten a couple more.

Tire kicker
Just kidding, great job! Keep doing your thang!

 

[Pizzaman12]

Tire kicker
Just kidding, great job! Keep doing your thang!

Settled at 105 on a nice one that will work perfectly for the family. Gives us the ability to give contracts to both of our kids when they're older.

My two cents on "lowball": With Disney out of the ROFR pool for a while the marketplace became the wild, wild west. It created a lack of equilibrium in the market that I've only seen once since I first bought back in 2010 (COVID).

There's bound to be disagreement on what a lowball offer is. Over the past 6-9 months this market hasn't been behaving rationally, so I don't really view any sales price as "too high" or any offer as "too low". It's really just trying to assess where the market is at any given point and making the decision that best fits your personal situation. As other have noted, prices have varied widely.

 

[Mle8308]

Depends on who you ask. Some would say it is but I dont. It’s really up to you to decide what to offer. Anyone else’s opinion doesn’t matter at all imo. It’s your money. They can easily say no, or maybe yes. Don’t let what others perceive drive what you think is fair


You can think whatever you want is a fair price. Doesn’t mean the seller will. May be why you’ve been ghosted.

 

[DougEMG]

Many years ago, I spent a great deal of time trying to get the absolute best price on contracts (i.e. lots of low-ball offers), walking away from deals over a few bucks. Now that I'm older and have more money, I could care less about getting the best deal. I've going through closing now on a RIV and CCR contract, neither one of which would be considered an awesome deal, but I'm happy. In both cases I just happened to look at some listings while at WDW, emailed in an offer, accepted the counter and had it all done within a day.

There are good customers and bad customers and neither one is going to be treated the same.

As DVC owners are we good Disney customers or not? Hard to tell sometimes!

 

[NorCalFanatic]

.

 

[DonMacGregor]

If I listed a contract at what I felt was a reasonable price (based on thoughtful consideration of the current market value for similar contract size, point availability, and UY), and someone came back with an offer that was 30 or 40% lower than my asking price, then I would consider that a low-ball offer and if the broker actually presented that to me, my immediate reaction would probably be to ask if I could respond to the offer directly, just so my displeasure wasn't misconstrued or toned down. Then, about a nanosecond later, I'd realize I don't actually care about some faceless nameless "buyer" who thought that was such a clever negotiating tactic, and completely ignore it.

If someone came back with the tired "Pretty Woman - Big Mistake" response, I'd probably just laugh. I'm only selling one contract, so that's all you can ever buy from me, and all you can choose not to buy from me. It's not a matter of "Well, if I give them a good deal on this one, maybe they'll buy ALL my contracts!" Either you're going to buy it from me for what I want to get out of it, or you're not, but it's ultimately my decision because I have something you ostensibly want, and not the other way around. Yes, I want someone's money, but it doesn't matter whose. The commodity I'm selling is far more finite and limited than the number of potential buyers. There is no "big mistake". You're not my last great hope.

Ever since that movie came out, that's been the school yard negotiation equivalent of "I know you are, but what am I?". Curiously, no one ever comes back with any proof that brushing them off really was such a "Big Mistake", even after making such a big deal about it. Even when there's no middle man (broker) insulating the two parties, no one ever seems to come back with their arms full of metaphorical Rodeo Drive shopping bags.

Now, if a potential buyer came with an offer that was based on an empirical analysis of market data, but skewed towards the lower end of current sales prices, I'd respect that and definitely engage in negotiation. I just won't entertain an offer made by someone who's throwing out numerous offers dramatically below current market prices, on the off chance they will stumble on to a seller desperate to sell, or ignorant of the true value of their contract.

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

Now, if a potential buyer came with an offer that was based on an empirical analysis of market data, but skewed towards the lower end of current sales prices, I'd respect that and definitely engage in negotiation. I just won't entertain an offer made by someone who's throwing out numerous offers dramatically below current market prices, on the off chance they will stumble on to a seller desperate to sell, or ignorant of the true value of their contract.

I’m still trying to hold out against addonitis at the moment, but I’m definitely itching to pick up Poly points if they dip any further, and this made me think: when I submit my offers, might it be worth it to say “here are 10 comparable contracts for the resort that have all been on the market over 30 days, I am offering you 10% less than the lowest/average price of these stale contracts because I believe if many buyers were interested in paying those prices, they wouldn’t be listed for 90+ days” or “here’s 5 recent contracts that actually were recorded for your resort, I’m offering the at the low end because while I’m a serious cash buyer, I’m not in a rush and I believe the market will continue to trend down as we close out the year.”

Would the broker have to pass that information on to the seller with my offer? I realize that some sellers are the inverse of lowball (“I’ll just keep my AUL at $175, surely someone will bite eventually!”) but presumably at least some of those listed contracts that have been around 6+ months actually do want to sell instead of paying 2024 dues and just don’t realize how much the market has changed in the past year?

 

[DonMacGregor]

I’m still trying to hold out against addonitis at the moment, but I’m definitely itching to pick up Poly points if they dip any further, and this made me think: when I submit my offers, might it be worth it to say “here are 10 comparable contracts for the resort that have all been on the market over 30 days, I am offering you 10% less than the lowest/average price of these stale contracts because I believe if many buyers were interested in paying those prices, they wouldn’t be listed for 90+ days” or “here’s 5 recent contracts that actually were recorded for your resort, I’m offering the at the low end because while I’m a serious cash buyer, I’m not in a rush and I believe the market will continue to trend down as we close out the year.”

I think one issue that seems to escape criticism is the readiness for some (not you) to jump on contracts that have been sitting for extended periods of time as being “unrealistically overpriced” or “uninformed” or “ignorant of the current market” (which they very well may be, but may just be set as low as the seller can go without being upside down), while at the same time readily justifying contract offers that are as equally low as the aging contracts are high as simply being “aggressive” or “good negotiation”.

I would never use outliers at the high end of listings (especially stale listings) or rejected offers from the Rejected Offers thread as the basis for any offer, because they are just that: outliers. I do think providing, if the opportunity presents itself, a sampling of actual closed sales that match your valuation of the contract, and even doing some cherry picking of low sales prices (as long as you can still provide more than just one or two supporting sales) is a strong negotiation strategy. It’s literally the same process I would go through in determining where I want to list the contract.

 

[pianomanzano]

I have to give a shoutout to Lauri @ www.dvcresaleexperts.com. She kept presenting my offers to sellers until one of them saw eye-to-eye with me.

Same! When I made a lowball offer (not ashamed to say) on a BRV contract, she acknowledged it was a lowball in a diplomatic way (letting me know to expect a counter), and that she would do her best to get the lowest possible counter. We were both shocked when the seller accepted the initial lowball offer ($75/pt offer on a loaded contract listed at $115/pt), she said it was my lucky day! Contract was on the market for at least 11 months at the time so who knows what initial preferences the seller had, I'm just glad that the broker presented my offer. Had she exercised the judgment other brokers have, deal never would've went through.

 

[Jimmy Geppetto]

Same! When I made a lowball offer (not ashamed to say) on a BRV contract, she acknowledged it was a lowball in a diplomatic way (letting me know to expect a counter), and that she would do her best to get the lowest possible counter. We were both shocked when the seller accepted the initial lowball offer ($75/pt offer on a loaded contract listed at $115/pt), she said it was my lucky day! Contract was on the market for at least 11 months at the time so who knows what initial preferences the seller had, I'm just glad that the broker presented my offer. Had she exercised the judgment other brokers have, deal never would've went through.

She is one of the best! I highly recommend her too!

 

[GrumpyInPhilly]

Same! When I made a lowball offer (not ashamed to say) on a BRV contract, she acknowledged it was a lowball in a diplomatic way (letting me know to expect a counter), and that she would do her best to get the lowest possible counter. We were both shocked when the seller accepted the initial lowball offer ($75/pt offer on a loaded contract listed at $115/pt), she said it was my lucky day! Contract was on the market for at least 11 months at the time so who knows what initial preferences the seller had, I'm just glad that the broker presented my offer. Had she exercised the judgment other brokers have, deal never would've went through.

Wow! Great price for a loaded BRV contract.

 

[tom1944]

She is one of the best! I highly recommend her too!

She graduated from the same college I did.

I believe she graduated many years after me though.

 

[GrumpyInPhilly]

Yes, exactly! And you’re right, asking a sky high price or offering to buy at an unreasonably low one are both equally annoying. If I were selling, and didn’t want to sit on my contract forever, I would be looking for a fair price. And if some vulture looking for a deal came in 20 points or more below my offer, hoping I was a distressed seller so they could take advantage of my situation, I don’t think I’d be falling all over myself to make sure my broker was being courteous.

That’s not to say lowball offers are a bad strategy if you have unlimited time and patience, and don’t care how long it takes to get the points you want. But there’s an opportunity cost the potential lowball buyer is paying as well in savings lost from non DVC vacations.

For me, it wasn't that I was trying to low-ball with my offers over the last 8 months. I believe that the economy is going south in 2024 and didn't want to be over-paying for what I think the price of an SSR contract will be then. I could be completely wrong in my thinking but that's where I was coming from.

 

[GrumpyInPhilly]

People have many reasons for selling. These contracts last 50 years, with some being passed down in a will. When there's a group of family members involved in liquifying estate assets so the proceeds can be divided, they can often be very happy in taking an $80 offer on SSR as opposed to waiting around for a $90 offer in two months--simply so they can finish the work of estate division. Sometimes these people have little interest in DVC. And the DVC sale likely ranks low among their current asset concerns. That is, speed here has a monetary value. For other sellers, waiting the two months is more valuable for them to maximize the value. Both $80 and $90 are reasonable sale points for SSR IMO. But you never know which seller you have until you make an offer. On the other hand, $60 is an unviable offer for nearly anyone.

Even if stripped until 2025 for an SSR contract?

 

[tom1944]

Even if stripped until 2025 for an SSR contract?

I have been tracking several of those and the lowest list price I believe is $92.

 

[GrumpyInPhilly]

I have been tracking several of those and the lowest list price I believe is $92.

I think a list price of $92 for an SSR contract stripped until 2025 is way too high. As you know, my SSR contract submitted yesterday to ROFR is $80 pp and I have 2023 & 2024 points. I'd think that 2 years worth of points is worth at least $20 pp but I know others do not calculate the fair market value that way.

 

[tom1944]

I think a list price of $92 for an SSR contract stripped until 2025 is way too high. As you know, my SSR contract submitted yesterday to ROFR is $80 pp and I have 2023 & 2024 points. I'd think that 2 years worth of points is worth at least $20 pp but I know others do not calculate the fair market value that way.

I think the key is to be willing to wait.

Most of us might research and know the price we would like but ultimately, we want to buy and use the points.

That happened to me for my first contract I paid slightly more than I wanted because I wanted to book a trip.

For this next contract I will not need the points until December 2024 or January 2025, so I have time to make some lower offers.

I figure I will start making some bids in February 2024 and see how it goes.

 

[GGGT]

I've bought/sold dozens of contracts over the years both direct and resale. I do think that a broker should notify the seller and then respond to the potential buyer one way or the other regardless of the offer amount. At the end of the day both parties should know what they are willing to pay or take for a contract, it can be a really simple process.

 

[TeamRiley]

How in the world anyone would assume anyone’s situation is beyond me.. literally in disbelief reading this, so let me make sure I’m understanding this.

You’re suggesting that a buyer is assuming a sellers situation, number 1. Then further assuming the same buyers are assuming other sellers situations, number 2. Then further assuming the buyers offers are based on taking advantage of a sellers situations we can’t possibly know anything about, number 3. Then, insulting these buyers based on three outrageous assumptions you have no information on in any way. Is that correct? If so, I think therein is the sickness in all this..assuming, judging and blaming situations you have no knowledge of is unbelievable honesty.

I am suggesting none of what you just listed. I am suggesting that constantly (not occasionally) putting in lowball offers hoping to cash in on 'deal' is a sad way to live.

 

[crisi]

I've bought/sold dozens of contracts over the years both direct and resale. I do think that a broker should notify the seller and then respond to the potential buyer one way or the other regardless of the offer amount. At the end of the day both parties should know what they are willing to pay or take for a contract, it can be a really simple process.

Absolutely NOT. You are not entitled to use a sellers time for a response if they have communicated their "floor" or that their price is "firm" to the broker. And if it is priced too high and sits....well, that's a them problem you don't need to solve.