Getting very tired of resale brokers who feel like ghosting is OK. Marking them off my list one by one.

[DonMacGregor]

Ok so let me see if I’m understanding your reply, which I’ve misunderstood others do best with me.

You understood it perfectly.

You stated earlier that you are "confident in every aspect of your life,", yet you chose to create a thread lamenting being ghosted by people you neither know nor will ever meet, and who have zero material effect or influence on your life. As none of us are the brokers who "ghosted" to you, the question, by its very nature, can only be answered with opinions and speculation. You asked the question, you now have been given a range of answers, whether you choose to agree with them or not.

My response, to be explicitly clear, is this: If you choose to make offers that are significantly (greater than 25%) below asking price on a listing that is priced consistent with other contracts on the market, and you state from the outset that in addition to the low offer you are also refusing to pay any costs or fees related to the sale, including membership fees for points that are available for your use, then it is not surprising that someone would ghost you because in my mind that is not a good-faith offer.

 

[thelionqueen]

You understood it perfectly.

You stated earlier that you are "confident in every aspect of your life,", yet you chose to create a thread lamenting being ghosted by people you neither know nor will ever meet, and who have zero material effect or influence on your life. As none of us are the brokers who "ghosted" to you, the question, by its very nature, can only be answered with opinions and speculation. You asked the question, you now have been given a range of answers, whether you choose to agree with them or not.

Thank you for clarifying, much appreciated!

Being confident and accepting disrespect are two totally different interpretations.

Yep chose to create a thread in which I oppose discrimination & disrespect..check.

And yes welcome all posts as people see fit whether or not I agree. But being judgmental, discriminatory or insulting I don’t accept.

Some feel it’s perfect to treat people poorly, great! Some refuse to be treated poorly, great! Some excuse illegal behavior as acceptable, great! Some oppose being discriminated against, great! So guess we’re all on the same page now.

 

[Sandisw]

Thank you for clarifying, much appreciated!

Being confident and accepting disrespect are two totally different interpretations.

Yep chose to create a thread in which I oppose discrimination & disrespect..check.

And yes welcome all posts as people see fit whether or not I agree. But being judgmental, discriminatory or insulting I don’t accept.

Some feel it’s perfect to treat people poorly, great! Some refuse to be treated poorly, great! Some excuse illegal behavior as acceptable, great! Some oppose being discriminated against, great! So guess we’re all on the same page now.

Being ghosted does not mean anyting illegal was done.

It may be a bad business practice, but since you have no idea what the broker did with your offer or what terms they have with a seller, maybe the ghosting is simply their decision not to bother when it’s been rejected or even countered because you’ve already made it clear to them that there is no negotiation you are willing to do?

Nothjng wrong with that approach on your part but I can see why a broker might choose to only contact you when they have an acceptance..

 

[Mle8308]

I can't, for the life of me, understand why someone would ever ghost you on a proposition like that...

Exactly.

 

[sndral]

I’m curious, are a lot of resale buyers who are making lowball offers these days being ‘ghosted’ - not getting even an email rejection - or is this unique to OP?
In regards to who pays the MFs on the points, how the deal is structured can make a difference to how much the seller must pay in taxes on their gain, so when I was buying resale I was focused on total cost per point & and didn’t care what label was attached to what I was paying. If I were the person selling at a gain I’d do what I could to reduce my tax hit, so lowering my price per point offset by buyer reimbursing MFs would be a more attractive offer.
My theory as a buyer was that sellers making a gain wanting to reduce their tax hit & thus preferring lower price per point + MF reimbursement were likely more willing to negotiate v. buyers who’d bought recently & financed & ‘had‘ to get a certain price per point in order to not have to bring money to the table to close.

 

[tom1944]

I’m curious, are a lot of resale buyers who are making lowball offers these days being ‘ghosted’ - not getting even an email rejection - or is this unique to OP?
In regards to who pays the MFs on the points, how the deal is structured can make a difference to how much the seller must pay in taxes on their gain, so when I was buying resale I was focused on total cost per point & and didn’t care what label was attached to what I was paying. If I were the person selling at a gain I’d do what I could to reduce my tax hit, so lowering my price per point offset by buyer reimbursing MFs would be a more attractive offer.
My theory as a buyer was that sellers making a gain wanting to reduce their tax hit & thus preferring lower price per point + MF reimbursement were likely more willing to negotiate v. buyers who’d bought recently & financed & ‘had‘ to get a certain price per point in order to not have to bring money to the table to close.

This makes a lot of sense.

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

I’m curious, are a lot of resale buyers who are making lowball offers these days being ‘ghosted’ - not getting even an email rejection - or is this unique to OP?
In regards to who pays the MFs on the points, how the deal is structured can make a difference to how much the seller must pay in taxes on their gain, so when I was buying resale I was focused on total cost per point & and didn’t care what label was attached to what I was paying. If I were the person selling at a gain I’d do what I could to reduce my tax hit, so lowering my price per point offset by buyer reimbursing MFs would be a more attractive offer.
My theory as a buyer was that sellers making a gain wanting to reduce their tax hit & thus preferring lower price per point + MF reimbursement were likely more willing to negotiate v. buyers who’d bought recently & financed & ‘had‘ to get a certain price per point in order to not have to bring money to the table to close.

I bought 2 resale contracts this year (VGF and BCV) and I made 5-15 of what many on this thread would consider lowball/value offers (far below what the board’s sponsor suggests is median price but maybe 5-10% below the average price seem on ROFR thread) on each contract before reaching a deal.

I would say that with my 20-30 total aggressive offers, maybe 1/3 were polite/succinct nos (including “seller declines to counter, would you like to make a higher offer?” In the no category), 1/3 were total silence or acknowledgement received without a formal no, and 1/3 were some sort of counter. I successfully negotiated out of that final 1/3, and I think there was at least one PVB offer that was also very good (back in spring) but I’d already agreed to the VGF contract, so it got away, even though the seller was reasonable.

I wonder if some of the contracts listed 6+ months at > 20% over current prices are even real individual sellers or if they are just there designed to make people feel good about paying 5-10% over median prices.

 

[TeamRiley]

It’s a business transaction nothing more. Buyers aren’t meant to consider the sellers situation nor vice versa. The broker needs to do what they’re required to do and let the chips fall where they may, end of story.

If this is how you feel, then you shouldn't care if no one ever contacts you if they think you made an unwanted offer. They aren't meant to consider your situation. Then they ignore you and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[GrumpyInPhilly]

I’m curious, are a lot of resale buyers who are making lowball offers these days being ‘ghosted’ - not getting even an email rejection - or is this unique to OP?
In regards to who pays the MFs on the points, how the deal is structured can make a difference to how much the seller must pay in taxes on their gain, so when I was buying resale I was focused on total cost per point & and didn’t care what label was attached to what I was paying. If I were the person selling at a gain I’d do what I could to reduce my tax hit, so lowering my price per point offset by buyer reimbursing MFs would be a more attractive offer.
My theory as a buyer was that sellers making a gain wanting to reduce their tax hit & thus preferring lower price per point + MF reimbursement were likely more willing to negotiate v. buyers who’d bought recently & financed & ‘had‘ to get a certain price per point in order to not have to bring money to the table to close.

I made over 30 offers with 6 different brokers during a 8 month period that I would call low (bottom 10%) but not lowball and I received a response on every one of them. Finally struck a deal last week.

 

[Cfabar1]

I wonder if some of the contracts listed 6+ months at > 20% over current prices are even real individual sellers or if they are just there designed to make people feel good about paying 5-10% over median prices.

My understanding is many of the listings that you describe here are actually what I would call "institutional owners" who are planning to rent the points if they don't get the sales that they want. They aren't that kind old couple that no longer wants to go to Disney world or the distressed divorcé who is trying to make ends meet and pay for her lawyer.

They're willing to sell, but only for the right price, and aren't eager to make a deal at all.

 

[DonMacGregor]

My understanding is many of the listings that you describe here are actually what I would call "institutional owners" who are planning to rent the points if they don't get the sales that they want. They aren't that kind old couple that no longer wants to go to Disney world or the distressed divorcé who is trying to make ends meet and pay for her lawyer.

Or that lone sad VDH contract that will never, ever sell (or at least not until the original owner has paid their loan down far enough, through renting out the points, to get above water).

 

[twodogs]

Is it illegal for a broker not to present an offer to the seller and/or not to respond to the potential buyer, if the offer is outside of the parameters (“floor”) set by the seller? This is just an honest question, trying to understand how the broker works in this situation.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

My strategy is 2 fold. Most importantly I will not pay dues on any points, will not pay closing & will not pay any other fees (Fidelity). Any counter that involves me paying any of those things will be rejected. I will consider a counter on price per point but not the others. Call me a tire kicker if you will

My price per point is always my final purchase cost. So I make an offer based on the best cost per point. For example if you look on the ROFR thread, and calculate closing and dues into the cost per point, that causes the price per point to go up dramatically.

So for example my current contract was the exact number of points I wanted, in my UY and at a resort I adore (even though its dues are higher than I’d prefer) OKW. Had double 2024 points no 2023 points. My offer was $8,000 all in. Seller pays closing, dues on all points (credit for 2024 at closing) and no fee for a net of approx $7150 total cost.

In my creative accounting, I’m paying $71.50 per point. I’m planning on renting the free points which would bring my purchase price down to $3150 or $31.50 per point.

Since I was planning on purchasing a points transfer for $20pp I’m effectively paying $11.50 per point more for 18 years of points vs 1 year of buying transferred points.

Let the mathematical flaming commence

Numbers don’t lie. Congrats!

 

[BWV Dreamin]

If this is how you feel, then you shouldn't care if no one ever contacts you if they think you made an unwanted offer. They aren't meant to consider your situation. Then they ignore you and let the chips fall where they may.

Brokers don’t know this. As a business, they should be communicating regardless. Poor business practices and I won’t use them either. I called one out, and they immediately came up with a bunch of excuses.

 

[Sandisw]

Is it illegal for a broker not to present an offer to the seller and/or not to respond to the potential buyer, if the offer is outside of the parameters (“floor”) set by the seller? This is just an honest question, trying to understand how the broker works in this situation.

If the seller has directed the broker to not present certain offers, then the broker is allowed, by law, to do follow that.

This is what I have done with every sale. In terms of communication, there is not requirement…but obviously a better business practice is to at least let a potential buyer know offer was received.

 

[homey12]

I made some low ball offers just to see what would happen. One of the contracts accepted this week, with a major broker saying “this is the lowest I have ever seen this resort go for here.” I am happy, but he could have also been feeding me a line of crap.

 

[pianomanzano]

I made some low ball offers just to see what would happen. One of the contracts accepted this week, with a major broker saying “this is the lowest I have ever seen this resort go for here.” I am happy, but he could have also been feeding me a line of crap.

Congrats! What resort and price point?

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

Congrats! What resort and price point?

Yes, inquiring minds want to know.

 

[homey12]

Yes, inquiring minds want to know.

Vero Beach, $45 with 2023 and 2024 points.... I'm happy.

 

[crisi]

If the seller has directed the broker to not present certain offers, then the broker is allowed, by law, to do follow that.

This is what I have done with every sale. In terms of communication, there is not requirement…but obviously a better business practice is to at least let a potential buyer know offer was received.

Additionally, the broker is under no obligation to present "unreasonable" offers - i.e. if I call a broker today and offer $25 a point on a BCV contract, the broker can hang up on me, never present the offer to the seller, even if the seller hasn't directed the broker not to present certain offers. Obviously, this makes sense. What is "unreasonable" is a matter of professional judgement - which basically means that part of the law has zero teeth once you start offering anything significantly below the listing price.