Getting thrown off the plane because your fat!

[Lewisc]

Here's my question:

I would easily fit in one SW seat (admittedly, I've only flown SW once, many years ago, but I've not fit in an airplane seat, so I'll go with the assumption that I would fit).

What if I want two seats to myself? Can I buy two? Will they give me that card thingy to save the second seat? Would they refund the price of the second seat if the flight was not full? And, if the answers are no, why not? And is that fair?

NO, That's why Smith is "gaming" the system. He's claimed he's a customer of size in order to be able to book an extra seat, possibly obtain a refund and block the extra seat. He then wants to say he's not a customer of size in order to get on an earlier flight.

Is it fair? Debatable. Depending on the fare I might be willing to pay for an empty middle seat under the terms offered to fat customers. I can easily fit in one seat.

Southwest says a customer of size doesn't have a choice and this is a fair compromise.

 

[MidgeD79]

So now that everyone has stated their thoughts on this, what should a person learn from this? Should I measure myself at home( and if I exceed 17 inches) and purchase another seat? I wonder what the width of a 5'6 - 120 pound woman/man is? Anyone care to measure themselves and post the answer? My own "seat width" is 47 inches and I can fit in a seat- buckled-arm rests down.

 

[Hannathy]

Just measured my computer chair and it is 17 inches between the arms and I have inches to spare.

 

[Lewisc]

So now that everyone has stated their thoughts on this, what should a person learn from this? Should I measure myself at home( and if I exceed 17 inches) and purchase another seat? I wonder what the width of a 5'6 - 120 pound woman/man is? Anyone care to measure themselves and post the answer? My own "seat width" is 47 inches and I can fit in a seat- buckled-arm rests down.

An average movie theater seat, not one of the newer high end theatres, is about 17-18 wide. A person who can easily fit in a regular movie theater seat should be OK.

 

[MidgeD79]

I measured my computer chair and it was 19 inches. I have PLENTY of room. I was at the movies last week (saw Avatar and it was great!) and also had plenty of room. So how does it work at the airport? Do I buy my seat as usual and wait for a flight attendant to question the fit? How would John/Jane Doe handle it if they were confronted?

 

[snowbunny]

So how does it work at the airport? Do I buy my seat as usual and wait for a flight attendant to question the fit?

Unless you are pretty sure you are a customer of size, aka "Pooh sized," yes.

How would John/Jane Doe handle it if they were confronted?

Get on twitter, begin a post with @SouthwestAir, and rock and roll.

 

[MidgeD79]

I am 5'6 and 236 pounds - "pooh-sized" - yet I can fit in the afore-mentioned seats. I would be totally humiliated if I were asked to purchase an additional seat especially after doing my own self-critique.

 

[verticalchaos]

I'm thinking I'll be fine. I fit into the tiny theater seats in NYC, and I don't think some of those are even 17 inches across. My dad has assured me that my sis who is larger than I am just flew Southwest and had no problems whatsoever, so I'm hopeful. Now if the weather will just cooperate...

 

[KingdomKeepersFinn]

First of all, nobody should get judged on their weight, gender, race anything.. It was just wrong and shouldnt have happened in the first place.. Southwest should have done something else.. He bought his seat so he should of stayed

 

[snowbunny]

I am 5'6 and 236 pounds - "pooh-sized" - yet I can fit in the afore-mentioned seats. I would be totally humiliated if I were asked to purchase an additional seat especially after doing my own self-critique.

I apologize for being flippant. If you are fine in a movie theater, you'll be fine in the 737. Southwest does not single people out and try to humiliate them. I fly SW frequently and have never seen this.

Mr. Smith had already identified himself as a customer of size, so even though he fit in the seat, he was deboarded in an unusual series of events stemming from that.

 

[Lewisc]

I am 5'6 and 236 pounds - "pooh-sized" - yet I can fit in the afore-mentioned seats. I would be totally humiliated if I were asked to purchase an additional seat especially after doing my own self-critique.

The SW policy has nothing to do with weight, that said posters under 250 lbs seem to have no issues. Posters who weigh closer to 300 lbs and/or need a seat belt extender tend to be close to needing a second seat. Obviously the way the weight is distributed is the issue.

You might review SWs policy. A refund of the second seat if the flight doesn't sell out. People who are close to being a customer of size (such as Mr. Smith) sometimes buy the second seat for comfort.

I'm thinking I'll be fine. I fit into the tiny theater seats in NYC, and I don't think some of those are even 17 inches across. My dad has assured me that my sis who is larger than I am just flew Southwest and had no problems whatsoever, so I'm hopeful. Now if the weather will just cooperate...

Some of the broadway show seats are definitely smaller then 17". The armrests are fixed.

 

[snowbunny]

I hate to doubt your conspiracy theory and all, but even Kevin Smith has some personal dignity. I can think of far better ways to drum up publicity for a movie that he admittedly isn't fond of.

Here's one! Kevin Smith joining a church group, anonymously, to picket the opening of his movie Dogma:

http://www.videosift.com/video/FOOTAGE-of-Kevin-Smith-Protesting-Dogma

That's a couple years old but yes he's so full of personal dignity it's inspiring. I'm sure that his appearance on Larry King tonight will be very difficult for him.

I do feel badly for Disers who are concerned they will be embarrassed by Southwest Airlines, but that is not what this is about.

 

[GreyGooseCosmo]

Here's one! Kevin Smith joining a church group, anonymously, to picket the opening of his movie Dogma:

http://www.videosift.com/video/FOOTAGE-of-Kevin-Smith-Protesting-Dogma

That's a couple years old but yes he's so full of personal dignity it's inspiring. I'm sure that his appearance on Larry King tonight will be very difficult for him.

I do feel badly for Disers who are concerned they will be embarrassed by Southwest Airlines, but that is not what this is about.

Frankly, a publicity stunt for a movie is a lot different than what's happened here. I won't bore you with those pesky little things called facts again, clearly it's not what you're interested in hearing. If you are OK with Southwest's inequitable application of their policy, great. I won't change your mind no matter how many facts I present.

Conversely, you won't change my mind. And I am one of those people that are concerned that I will be embarrassed (and my expensive family vacation ruined) by another person (a Southwest employee) that's clearly non-plussed with such things as facts.

There are two very clear things that I've learned over my years on message boards. First, you take what you need and leave the rest. I've gotten what I need from this thread, and I'll just be leaving the rest. And second, feeding trolls and arguing with those that are closed-minded is a waste of time. My time's precious. And I'm not wasting any more on this discussion since changing some minds is clearly impossible. Have a great day - back to planning my family's trip in September with me.

 

[Looking4themouse]

Well I really feel that I should take grey goose's advice and not feed the trolls, but I really can't help putting my two cents in, just because.....I worked for an IL center for about 10 years, for those of you who don't know what that is it's an Independent Living Ceter, a majority of my co-workers and friends were people with physical disabilities, and we traveled quite often for company related conferences. Most of the time the when we traveled the individual with the disabilty was seated on an aisle seat. On more than one occasion, the person with the disability's legs were immobile, sometimes jutting straight out, unable to tuck in or keep the aisle clear in case of an emergency, therefore, causing IMO a safety issue. For that matter in all honesty any person who is somehow incapacitated is causing a safety issue if they are on an aisle or a middle seat, if a person is hunched over the other individual may not be able to get out....
For those of you who don't feel it's an issue of discrimination or as serious an issues as racial discrimination or discrimination based on a disability, try wearing a fat suit for a day, or maybe even just shoving a couple of extra large pillows in your clothing and see how you feel after that!!!

 

[seashoreCM]

... we traveled quite often for company related conferences. Most of the time the when we traveled the individual with the disabilty was seated on an aisle seat. On more than one occasion, the person with the disability's legs were immobile, sometimes jutting straight out, unable to tuck in or keep the aisle clear in case of an emergency, therefore, causing IMO a safety issue. ...

Whether or not it is discrimination, it is up to your company and the airline to negotiate about how much it will cost to fly everyone in a safe manner. A negotiated bulk rate could lessen the impact of providing two seats for certain persons.

For those of you who do feel that airlines are discriminating unfairly, time to lobby your Congressmen and Senators to add a bit of regulation to force the airlines to provide the appropriate services in what you consider a non-discriminatory manner. The advantage of regulation is that all airlines would have to do the same thus not putting just one airline at a competitive disadvantage.

 

[snowbunny]

Well I really feel that I should take grey goose's advice and not feed the trolls, ....

For those of you who don't feel it's an issue of discrimination or as serious an issues as racial discrimination or discrimination based on a disability, try wearing a fat suit for a day, or maybe even just shoving a couple of extra large pillows in your clothing and see how you feel after that!!!

If you are referring to me, I'm not a troll, thanks. If you read my posts, you would see that I do have sympathy for Disers of size who are worried about their treatment on Southwest.

These worries are largely unfounded. Mr. Smith was in fact taking advantage of Southwest's generous customer of size policy (read the thread) and when Southwest personnel boarded him by mistake, which was inconsistent with its published policy to which he agreed when he identified himself as a customer of size, that is where the error occurred.

Hats off to Mr. Smith! This thread has now outlived its usefulness.

 

[Lewisc]

Sorry if you think I'm a troll. Just trying to provide some facts and balance.
I think Mr. Smith decided to take advantage of the situation to generate some publicity for his movie. I don't know if the passenger in the seat next to the one he wanted to occupy complained. I know if I complained, and found out that passenger is even a C level celebrity I'd deny I ever had the conversation with the FA.

A passenger who identifies himself as a customer of size can't complain when he's treated as one.

At least some posters seem concerned about SWs policy.

1. SWs policy of letting you buy an extra seat, and get a refund if the flight isn't full, is a good deal. You get the extra space.
2. Passengers who don't want to take the chance of paying for an extra seat may do better with another airline. Airlines with reserved seats are less likely to have an issue if the passenger next to you is traveling with you.
3. Other airlines still have a policy. Passengers who are clearly too big to fit may have an issue. Those passengers will do better with SW.
4. Passengers with questions can call SW. They can give you seat dimensions and give you guidance. Generally people who can easily fit in a standard movie theatre seat have no problem. People who have to squeeze to fit in the movie theatre seat may have an issue with an airline seat that might be an inch (or 2) narrower.
5. DIS who weigh 250 lbs don't seem to have an issue.

SW's policy survived a court challenge. The court agreed a passenger whoat needs 2 seats has to pay for 2 seats.

Airlines have reduced capacity. Some flights are going with fewer empty seats. The empty middle seat solution may not be available.

Frankly, a publicity stunt for a movie is a lot different than what's happened here. I won't bore you with those pesky little things called facts again, clearly it's not what you're interested in hearing. If you are OK with Southwest's inequitable application of their policy, great. I won't change your mind no matter how many facts I present.

Conversely, you won't change my mind. And I am one of those people that are concerned that I will be embarrassed (and my expensive family vacation ruined) by another person (a Southwest employee) that's clearly non-plussed with such things as facts.

There are two very clear things that I've learned over my years on message boards. First, you take what you need and leave the rest. I've gotten what I need from this thread, and I'll just be leaving the rest. And second, feeding trolls and arguing with those that are closed-minded is a waste of time. My time's precious. And I'm not wasting any more on this discussion since changing some minds is clearly impossible. Have a great day - back to planning my family's trip in September with me.

 

[Looking4themouse]

Snowbunny where is that information??? I have yet to see it published, nor was I there to prove or disprove your information. It could very well be that he was told that he could wait for a standby seat even though he is a person of size, because of being someone who is borderline, or hell because he's a celebrity of some sorts. Still not his fault if he informed them. We don't know any of that information, because we weren't there, and had I been publically humiliated like that yes I would be really angry and probably tell anyone who would listen to boycott the company that did it to me.

I am not a person of size, but my best friend is and she is also a person who has a physical disability. When we went to WDW several years ago she got stuck on the small world ride, and had to have help from some of the staff at Disney to get herself unstuck and off the ride. Had they embarrassed her the way SW embarrased Kevin Smith I don' think I would be on this board right now because I don't think I would consider going back to Disney.

 

[hsmamato2]

bring on the flames
understanding that some people will NOT fit into these seats isn't rocket science.
It's not judgemental to acknowledge this! it's physics! It's not saying a 'larger' person is not as good,you simply can't fit! Buy 2 flippin' seats if you're worried! The best bet is to be seated with your own family,who don't mind a tight squeeze with someone who's not a stranger.... sitting between my own average sized family was squished enough for me!
Why would anyone do that to other people? we all know about the small seats,we all know that anything larger than average isn't going to fit without a real squeeze.....
TO me,it all comes down to being thoughtful of others around you,instead of trying to excuse everything by justifying your own comfort and demands. I am NOT saying larger folks deserve less,in reality,we'd all like bigger seats,etc. But if you CAN'T FIT without spilling around the edges,then just buy 2 seats! And it IS thoughtful of others for me to say this- What if 3 strangers,all "pooh sized" bought 3 seats in the same row? I wonder what their feelings about taking up more than one seat would be in this case. B/C there wouldn't be room for all 3 folks at once. In reality,I'm not sure the FA would have to make a call on that,as ,like I said above,it's simply physics-there wouldn't be room. SO why is it ok for one person to do this,if the others near them can physically fit in the seat,but suddenly have no personal space left?
folks can try and justify anything nowadays it seems by calling it a disability. And for some,it probably is. But if it TRULY is,then you yourself would know this,and plan for it ahead of time,instead of making others around you pay the price.
IF I had this issue to deal with,I'd plan for it,instead of thinking that maybe some other airline might let me encroach on others space so I could get by at my own convenience.
I am not against larger folks,I absolutely am not. and that filmmaker sure sounds like he got what he wanted,some publicity. I'd never heard of him till now,so it's working,eh?
(rides at a park,not the same,it's a lot harder to plan for size requirements on some of those,and I am grateful too that Disney always treats people with respect while assisting them in those situations)

 

[ratmaster]

Another point missed....

Most of the people on this board are not saying that they disagree with Southwest's rule. They are not saying that people have the right to encroach on other people's space. The biggest concern for most is the way in which Southwest enforces their rule. The Southwest rule says that the determining factor is if the person can lower the armrests completely. It even goes so far as to mention that shoulder width is NOT a determining factor. The use of a seatbelt extender is also NOT a determining factor. Only the armrest. Mr. Smith was able to lower both armrests and he was still removed from a flight. Tight fit or not, rules are rules and Southwest did not follow their own rules. This is absolutely not the first time this has been in the news. Southwest has a pattern of inconsistently enforcing it's own rules and this is what bothers people. I am borderline. I have flown more miles than probably 90% of the people on this board. Many on Southwest. I have never once been questioned by a flight crew nor have I even thought that I might be questioned. However, it concerns me now. Not that I can't fit into the seat but that I will be a victim of an airline employee who does not follow their own rules.

Getting an undesirable seat mate is a chance everyone takes when choosing to travel via a "public" form of transportation. And by public, I mean a method to which the entire public has access. You might get seated next to someone who is larger than you would like. As long as they conform the airline's rules, it's a chance you take. You might get seated next to someone who wants to talk to you the entire flight from coast to coast or next to a screaming baby, or next to someone who has not bathed in a few days or who brings on a tuna sandwich (I hate that) or who wears too much perfume. As long as they are within the airlines rules, it's a chance that YOU take by choosing to fly with other people.