Getting Halloween Decorations Cancelled for Entire Class?

[brockash]

I voted "switch to Autumn decor only" which may be unpopular, but let me elaborate.

I taught kindergarten/1st grade for many years and ALWAYS had a child or two that didn't celebrate various holidays. It was easy enough to make them generic. For art we did Fall leaves, spiders, bats, popcorn, pumpkins, and even monsters, etc. (I'd pick a book that wasn't Halloween themed for monsters like "Where the Wild Things Are.") We could talk about costumes and candy and make it about "some people like to celebrate this holiday at this time of year" so I thought it would be fun to make monsters rather than "we are celebrating Halloween." If a child liked to read/write/draw about witches etc. that was absolutely fine, I just didn't talk much about it other than in the "these are Holidays some people celebrate on this date." I think being inclusive is very important. I chose books to read aloud that focused on Harvest and Fall themes, but kept plenty of fun Halloween books available for free reading time. If I knew a child was not allowed to celebrate the holiday I was more careful than if I had no children in my classroom who had that issue, but why would any teacher want to exclude one of their students? If parties were allowed, those were pretty specific, so I called the parents and we made a plan. Some kept their kids home, some wanted them to go to the schoolwide alternative movie that was provided, some wanted to know specifics and decide accordingly. I made sure to check in with the children and recognize that many kids in the room celebrated Halloween and to let me know if they feel uncomfortable in any way. Most parents want their kids to learn how to navigate their differences so learning how to do so is important.

Doing math with m and m's as manipulatives is not Halloween, doing harvest activities like making applesauce, etc. is not Halloween, writing seasonal stories where some kids might choose to write about Halloween is not endorsing Halloween. I've never particularly liked Halloween (I dislike dressing up in costumes) so I've always empathized with those kids who want to be a part of things but for whatever reason are uncomfortable, but it's also silly to avoid it altogether because many people love it.

I found a phone call home to discuss it with any parent who had let me know of Holiday issues was appreciated and usually they had no problem since they knew I was making an effort not to put their child in a compromising position.

Perfect simple example of how to compassionately handle situations with different ppl. It's sad so many seem to think this simple effort is not a priority.

 

[RUDisney]

Sure...by all means - everyone should adhere to this one person's religious beliefs. What a ridiculous world it is becoming. If they do this, no one should

Have ANY santa claus or christmas themed stuff displayed if any jewish or muslim children.

Not all religious people are psychotic about others' beliefs.

The best Christmas parties I've ever attended have been hosted by my Muslim and Hindu friends. They even do a grab bag gift exchange at them. AND the food!!! It's always so good!

Religious holidays can be religious for those who believe in them, or they can be secular for those who like to have fun. I've never participated in a blood sacrifice at a Halloween celebration. Everyone is having fun and oohing and aahing about everyone's costumes, and of course... candy.

 

[LSUmiss]

Wow, I'd feel really bad for that little boy too. but also super disappointed that the school wasn't proactive and decide to make the festivities inclusive. Many schools moved to "winter" parties years ago. Seems like a simple solution that apparently wasn't considered...sad.

Sorry that’s on the parents in that situation. A winter party probably wouldn’t be ok either as it’s usually the celebrations that are prohibited, not observing particular holidays. I’m all for inclusivity but not at the detriment of the other kids. The other kids have just as much of a right to enjoy celebrating the holidays as that family does to refrain. If it’s their religion/culture, the parent needs to explain to their child why he/she is not allowed to participate since it’s their rules.

 

[Lord Manhammer]

Why shouldn’t they? If a parent chooses to send their child to a school that is available that aliens with their beliefs, shouldn’t the school taxes they already pay help pay for it?

We sent our kids to a private catholic school. We didn’t choose the school for the religious aspects but unfortunately in our area, there we no private schools that weren’t religion based.

I would have loved if the portion of our taxes that went to public schools went to the tuition we paid.

Absolutely not. Taxpayers pay for public schools free of religious indoctrination. Should a parent wish to not utilise that free service, that is their right, but then the responsibility of educating their children privately falls to them and no other taxpayer. As for what they're doing in Florida? Well, let's just say I'm glad I don't live in Florida!

You can't make any broad assumptions about American's beliefs, especially about things like Halloween. Unlike your country we are HUGE, and extremely diverse and we've lost count of the number of religions. Christianity alone has hundreds of different groups, most know nothing about the others and have their own opinions on what they "think" they are about. Some who fall under that category probably should not but so far there is no official "other" group.

This is a good point, especially since the fastest growing "religion" in the US is no religion. Atheist/non-religious attitudes are on a steep incline and church attendance is plummeting.

 

[Lord Manhammer]

I've never participated in a blood sacrifice at a Halloween celebration

You really need to get out more.

 

[michellej47]

This should defintely NOT be combined with a kiddo with allergies. They are two separate things. A kid cannot help if they have a life-threatening allergy to a food.

My question to the parent would be...do you avoid pretty much any retail establishment, television channel, etc. during this time of year, because Halloween is everywhere. I'm a pretty religious person, but Halloween has never bothered me. It's cute and fun.

 

[shh]

Why shouldn’t they? If a parent chooses to send their child to a school that is available that aliens with their beliefs, shouldn’t the school taxes they already pay help pay for it?

We sent our kids to a private catholic school. We didn’t choose the school for the religious aspects but unfortunately in our area, there we no private schools that weren’t religion based.

I would have loved if the portion of our taxes that went to public schools went to the tuition we paid.

Certainly makes sense if it's just your portion. The problem is that it's also a big portion of my taxes and others in order to run all these multiple religious charter schools - and many are for- profit - all monies go back in owners' pockets and little is invested in student resources. Some have had very questionable academic quality (Florida academic standards are very low for these charter schools with little regulatory followup - there have been quite a few exposes on how bad some are).

Some of the teachings are diametrically opposed to traditional science, medicine and many people's beliefs. Not judging - that's fine for parents who subscribe to those teachings.

But religious doctrine wasn't supposed to mix with taxpayer-funded public education. At least not in the old days. If that now changed and the US is now run as a religious country with citizens obligated to fund religious education for all who want it, it gets sticky.

Which religions are considered "legit"?
Which are considered "fringe"?
Who makes the call?

 

[sam_gordon]

I was also the only Jewish kid in my school growing up. A couple memories from elementary school (before 5th grade definitely)...
A) There was a "special" class we went to. It was aviation themed (decorations, etc), and I *LOVED* flying. Brought some paperwork to mom & dad and they said "nope, you can't attend". It was a religious (Christianity) class (picture a Vacation Bible School for those familiar with that concept). Yes, taught during the school day in a public school. At the time, I didn't understand why I couldn't attend the class. I had to sit out in the hall and do something else while all my classmates attended this class. While I feel my parents took the basic step of having me not attend that class, it should have been fought more so as to not even have the class.
B) Same school, had a "Christmas" musical pageant. The classes got up and sang Christmas songs. Again, learned during class time. The one pageant I remember they added a Hanukkah song. I don't know if my parents complained or someone thought "oh, we have a Jewish student."

It's easy to sit back and say "don't ruin the fun for everyone" when you "agree" with the fun being had. In my first example above, my parents had me stay out of the class. Is that "enough"? It's ok for a public school to have a religious based class?

"It's just some decorations"... can teachers put up crosses around Easter? I'm assuming many teachers put up Christmas decorations. That's ok? Would you be ok with your child's teacher (and again, we're talking kids under 10 generally) putting up decorations for an Islamic holiday? A Buddhist? AND *NOT* putting up a Christmas tree at Christmas?

Personally, I think it's an interesting discussion once you get past the knee jerk "it's just a holiday, stop complaining".

 

[shh]

Not all religious people are psychotic about others' beliefs.

The best Christmas parties I've ever attended have been hosted by my Muslim and Hindu friends. They even do a grab bag gift exchange at them. AND the food!!! It's always so good!

Religious holidays can be religious for those who believe in them, or they can be secular for those who like to have fun. I've never participated in a blood sacrifice at a Halloween celebration. Everyone is having fun and oohing and aahing about everyone's costumes, and of course... candy.

I wish everyone could be equally as open minded instead of getting offended at every little thing and trying to prohibit others from enjoying. Sigh.

 

[shh]

Absolutely not. Taxpayers pay for public schools free of religious indoctrination. Should a parent wish to not utilise that free service, that is their right, but then the responsibility of educating their children privately falls to them and no other taxpayer. As for what they're doing in Florida? Well, let's just say I'm glad I don't live in Florida!

Sigh. And I do, Lord M. I'm seeing how these ideas are actually playing out in the real world, first hand. It's not going to end well, I think.

 

[Lord Manhammer]

Sigh. And I do, Lord M. I'm seeing how these ideas are actually playing out in the real world, first hand. It's not going to end well, I think.

Ahhhh, I see now, and yes, I'd agree that you certainly have a front row seat to all of this. It's all a matter of perspective.

 

[Traveling on cc points]

Absolutely not. Taxpayers pay for public schools free of religious indoctrination. Should a parent wish to not utilise that free service, that is their right, but then the responsibility of educating their children privately falls to them and no other taxpayer. As for what they're doing in Florida? Well, let's just say I'm glad I don't live in Florida!

You are entitled to your opinion. We will have to agree to disagree that public schools are free.
Yes. It was our choice to pay for a private education instead of utilizing the “free” option but I don’t see a problem if a state lets a parent use their school tax money where they see fit.
I would have chosen a private school that wasn’t a religious school but those type of schools weren’t available in the area where I lived. (Not in my price range anyways.)

Certainly makes sense if it's just your portion. The problem is that it's also a big portion of my taxes and others in order to run all these multiple religious charter schools - and many are for- profit - all monies go back in owners' pockets and little is invested in student resources. Some have had very questionable academic quality (Florida academic standards are very low for these charter schools with little regulatory followup - there have been quite a few exposes on how bad some are).

Some of the teachings are diametrically opposed to traditional science, medicine and many people's beliefs. Not judging - that's fine for parents who subscribe to those teachings.

But religious doctrine wasn't supposed to mix with taxpayer-funded public education. At least not in the old days. If that now changed and the US is now run as a religious country with citizens obligated to fund religious education for all who want it, it gets sticky.

Which religions are considered "legit"?
Which are considered "fringe"?
Who makes the call?

very fair points. I guess things are run very differently around the country.

we had several small private schools in our area that were not for profit to choose from.
They were mostly attached the the church that sponsored them.

The major appeal to us was the small class sizes and the fact that most of the parents were very involved.

I am very happy that our kids are now grown, I would be scared to death to send them to a public or private school
These days.

 

[Moliphino]

I was also the only Jewish kid in my school growing up. A couple memories from elementary school (before 5th grade definitely)...
A) There was a "special" class we went to. It was aviation themed (decorations, etc), and I *LOVED* flying. Brought some paperwork to mom & dad and they said "nope, you can't attend". It was a religious (Christianity) class (picture a Vacation Bible School for those familiar with that concept). Yes, taught during the school day in a public school. At the time, I didn't understand why I couldn't attend the class. I had to sit out in the hall and do something else while all my classmates attended this class. While I feel my parents took the basic step of having me not attend that class, it should have been fought more so as to not even have the class.
B) Same school, had a "Christmas" musical pageant. The classes got up and sang Christmas songs. Again, learned during class time. The one pageant I remember they added a Hanukkah song. I don't know if my parents complained or someone thought "oh, we have a Jewish student."

It's easy to sit back and say "don't ruin the fun for everyone" when you "agree" with the fun being had. In my first example above, my parents had me stay out of the class. Is that "enough"? It's ok for a public school to have a religious based class?

"It's just some decorations"... can teachers put up crosses around Easter? I'm assuming many teachers put up Christmas decorations. That's ok? Would you be ok with your child's teacher (and again, we're talking kids under 10 generally) putting up decorations for an Islamic holiday? A Buddhist? AND *NOT* putting up a Christmas tree at Christmas?

Personally, I think it's an interesting discussion once you get past the knee jerk "it's just a holiday, stop complaining".

Halloween isn't a religious holiday, though.

In my experience, holiday celebrations in schools were very much celebrated in a secular way (so Santa/snowmen/etc. and bunnies/colored eggs/etc., not anything about Jesus). There was no religious instruction or decoration, and in a public school there shouldn't be unless you're covering all religions.

 

[michellej47]

Not all religious people are psychotic about others' beliefs.

The best Christmas parties I've ever attended have been hosted by my Muslim and Hindu friends. They even do a grab bag gift exchange at them. AND the food!!! It's always so good!

Religious holidays can be religious for those who believe in them, or they can be secular for those who like to have fun. I've never participated in a blood sacrifice at a Halloween celebration. Everyone is having fun and oohing and aahing about everyone's costumes, and of course... candy.

My best Christmas ever was my senior year of high school. My then boyfriend had a Jewish mom and a Christian dad. They did a mash-up of Christmans and Hanukkah. I learned so much that year and had some of the best food ever!

 

[Bad Pink Tink 2.0]

My best Christmas ever was my senior year of high school. My then boyfriend had a Jewish mom and a Christian dad. They did a mash-up of Christmans and Hanukkah. I learned so much that year and had some of the best food ever!

OMG, Seth Cohen , is that you

 

[sam_gordon]

Halloween isn't a religious holiday, though.

In my experience, holiday celebrations in schools were very much celebrated in a secular way (so Santa/snowmen/etc. and bunnies/colored eggs/etc., not anything about Jesus). There was no religious instruction or decoration, and in a public school there shouldn't be unless you're covering all religions.

I'm glad that was your experience. Wasn't mine. And while Halloween isn't a religious holiday to MOST, based on the OP, it is to some.

It's easy to say "let the kids have fun", and I don't disagree with that. But my experience teaches me to look at it from the other side. I don't think Halloween decorations should be banned. I think it is a good discussion to have.

 

[tvguy]

Halloween isn't a religious holiday, though.

It is for Pagans.

 

[Moliphino]

I'm glad that was your experience. Wasn't mine. And while Halloween isn't a religious holiday to MOST, based on the OP, it is to some.

It's easy to say "let the kids have fun", and I don't disagree with that. But my experience teaches me to look at it from the other side. I don't think Halloween decorations should be banned. I think it is a good discussion to have.

I agree that your experience is not how things should be done in a public school. There should be no focus on one particular religion or any actual religious instruction.

And in the OP it's not claiming that Halloween is religious, but that this parent's religion does not allow observing it.

 

[LSUmiss]

It is for Pagans.

But there is no alternate holiday celebration like the pp experienced during Christmas.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Even though I suspect this is one of those more elaborate for the sake of drama stories there is an aspect that this very well is likely to occur IRL.

If the religious objection is there I would want to know what religion the family is not because it's really any of my business but rather it would give perspective. For example many of the trunk or treat events are held in church parking lots. My sister-in-law's boyfriend is Muslim and I can't imagine him viewing the topic the same as what this supposed situation occurred. He doesn't celebrate Christmas but has no issues with attending Christmas parties.

One thing is I really wish people in general would look at is what their objections are doing for those they are trying to fight for. Is this outrage just to have outrage or are your objections rooted in selflessness or true wish for better for all. I can't take a hard stance on things because sometimes I really do agree with one parent speaking out but then others it's so much the case of self-servicing motives that have nothing to do with the child or working to make things better for all.