Getting canned over racist language

[Hikergirl]

I haven’t read where anyone said he shouldn’t have been removed as CEO. HE is the bigot and no one has dismissed that.

But you seem to be saying that taking down everyone in the company is ok if it “gets the bigot”. So those thousands of innocent people should be ok to be possibly unemployed because they didn’t know the CEO was a bigot?

Now I realize that very few if any will actually lose their jobs over this but if the possibility is there, is that what you think should happen? Would that satisfy a need to properly teach the bigot of his wrongs? And keep in mind, I most certainly agree that he was wrong and he was stupid to say what he did. But he isn’t losing a lot. He is already a billionaire.

The pp that you quoted recognizes that Papa John, while still a bigot and wrong, did do good things for the community. It’s just seeing the flip side of someone and hating to lose the good parts while knowing he has to be gone for the bad parts. It’s just seeing all those little gray areas of a human being, not just the black and white. And not dismissing them either.

Some people are too busy looking for "what seems to be" than seeing what things actually are.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

I totally agree that he should not have said what he did, but I do hate to see him go down in flames for our community. I live literally, around the corner from the Papa John's Headquarters (AKA - The Pizza Palace) and he does pour millions and millions of dollars into the community. I hope whomever takes over running the company has the same compassion for community that John does.

Let's hope they have compassion for the whole community rather than just part of it.

 

[luvsJack]

I'm not saying that (the bolded) at all.

Well what do you mean about the thread focusing on financial loss? Certainly you don’t mean his?

 

[CarolAnn856]

Even if it's used incorrectly, those same people have the right to do so. Free speech is an amazing thing that should be defended but it does lead to a lot of nonsense.

I do agree that people should expect any kind of fallout when they say such things though. It's just not smart and that's only the start of what's wrong.

For the last time...Nobody is saying that the right to freedom of speech, as defined legally, should be curtailed. The point is that many people assume and argue that freedom of speech applies to employment, forum posting, etc., but it does not. That is what gets tiresome and that is what the poster who brought it up was talking about.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

For the last time...Nobody is saying that the right to freedom of speech, as defined legally, should be curtailed. The point is that many people assume and argue that freedom of speech applies to employment, forum posting, etc., but it does not. That is what gets tiresome and that is what the poster who brought it up was talking about.

Something tells me it won't be the last time. Someone will have to say it again.

 

[Planogirl]

For the last time...Nobody is saying that the right to freedom of speech, as defined legally, should be curtailed. The point is that many people assume and argue that freedom of speech applies to employment, forum posting, etc., but it does not. That is what gets tiresome and that is what the poster who brought it up was talking about.

I was agreeing not arguing. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Well what do you mean about the thread focusing on financial loss? Certainly you don’t mean his?

I mean it's interesting to me that posters (and in many cases which posters and their previous stances on issues of bigotry) choose to comment on how they feel bad about any backlash the company may face will impact people who work there. It just seems tone deaf given how impactful racism had been and continues to be.

 

[Planogirl]

I mean it's interesting to me that posters (and in many cases which posters and their previous stances on issues of bigotry) choose to comment on how they feel bad about any backlash the company may face will impact people who work there. It just seems tone deaf given how impactful racism had been and continues to be.

It's possible to feel bad for them too isn't it?

 

[Hikergirl]

It's possible to feel bad for them too isn't it?

Apparently not to some people. People who are looking for something that isn't there that is.

 

[Planogirl]

Apparently not to some people. People who are looking for something that isn't there that is.

I see that too. I don't get it.

 

[luvsJack]

I mean it's interesting to me that posters (and in many cases which posters and their previous stances on issues of bigotry) choose to comment on how they feel bad about any backlash the company may face will impact people who work there. It just seems tone deaf given how impactful racism had been and continues to be.

Well the discussion of backlash to the company began when someone mentioned no longer buying from Papa John’s and the response was that it isn’t going to hurt him one way or the other. It wasn’t to dismiss what he did or what he is.

I do think it’s possible to see what he said or what he believes as horrible AND feel that it’s sad for the backlash to the company and those just out there trying to make a living through the company.

And I do not believe the pp’s comment about the charitable contributions made by John through the company is dismissing or ignoring or anything else to the fact that he is racist. His contributions go to many people and many organizations and do not seem to be done with race in mind at all. But of course that doesn’t change what he is.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I mean it's interesting to me that posters (and in many cases which posters and their previous stances on issues of bigotry) choose to comment on how they feel bad about any backlash the company may face will impact people who work there. It just seems tone deaf given how impactful racism had been and continues to be.

I'll be honest I don't quite get this. I mean I do I just think it actually comes off tone deaf but the other side of it.

When any company suffers from financial setbacks, PR issues, abhorent people, one can still have even a tiny shred of empathy towards those ancillary people who could or are impacted without supporting what actually transpired.

IDK I think there is a correlation in your words that doesn't quite match up with how most people IRL view situations. When people express sympathy towards those impacted to equate that to mean they support racism or they are tone deaf on it comes off tone deaf to me honestly. Sure some people do support what is said but that is not everyone.

In my metro (though on the other side of the state line from me) Harley Davidson closed their plant due to declining motorcycle sales in part to changing consumer tastes but it was an added incentive when steel tariffs (strengthening the desire to consolidate or move overseas) was announced. Tax incentives wouldn't be enough to keep them in that state. It was 800 jobs lost and several hundred thousand dollars per year in lost earnings tax revenue (tax paid to the city/area). Even though it's on the other side of the state line it can still affect us.

Now imagine if what caused the plant to close was the same thing as Papa Johns situation. Does that mean I shouldn't feel bad for those who lost their jobs, for the area who will lose the money that can create ripple effects on my side of the state line (like less money spent on xyz area which can bring in tourism, attractiveness of our area for companies to expand or headquarter in our area which can mean people from my side of the state line working on the other side of the state line affecting the income for their households {which people do all the time here work in one state live in the other}, etc)?

Now I'm not stating that sometimes the unfortunate truth is companies probably should go under because xyz but it doesn't mean I don't extend my sympathy towards those impacted. For example workers at Enron who were completely unaware of what was going on. Their bosses and bosses bosses were doing terrible things but they were unaware of what was going on. Not to mention people who were stockholders (the ones unaware of what was going on). People who lost it all through no fault of their own. I have sympathy for those people but I don't in any way support the greediness of those who were responsible.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Apparently not to some people. People who are looking for something that isn't there that is.

Where are all these people feeling bad for the workers when it comes to nearly any and every worker issue? Telling us they knew what they were getting into and offering no sympathy whatsoever of course. It's only when workers become a useful tool of deflection that they suddenly care about them.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I was agreeing not arguing. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

I read it as you meant. Seemed pretty clear, but I guess I can see how someone may have misread.

 

[luvsJack]

Where are all these people feeling bad for the workers when it comes to nearly any and every worker issue? Telling us they knew what they were getting into and offering no sympathy whatsoever of course. It's only when workers become a useful tool of deflection that they suddenly care about them.

Ok the CEO is a racist. Let’s call for a complete shut down of any and all Papa John’s stores no matter who owns them! The entire company should be shut down and everyone remotely connected to it left unemployed. That will teach him! Feel better?

Come on. No one is deflecting anything. The man is a racist. It may or may not hurt the company. If it does it’s a shame for anyone it hurts who is NOT a racist.

It’s just part of a discussion. Would you prefer a 3 page thread of every single post saying “he is a racist” and agreeing he should have been canned?

 

[sunshinehighway]

Ok the CEO is a racist. Let’s call for a complete shut down of any and all Papa John’s stores no matter who owns them! The entire company should be shut down and everyone remotely connected to it left unemployed. That will teach him! Feel better?

Come on. No one is deflecting anything. The man is a racist. It may or may not hurt the company. If it does it’s a shame for anyone it hurts who is NOT a racist.

It’s just part of a discussion. Would you prefer a 3 page thread of every single post saying “he is a racist” and agreeing he should have been canned?

Nobody is calling for the whole company to be shut down or anything close to that (at least not anyone in this thread). It's a made up thing, an overaction to a few people saying they won't be buying from Papas John's.
As far as the bolded, yes actually I would. It would be great if we could all just respond to such blantant racism by denouncing it and the racist.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Ok the CEO is a racist. Let’s call for a complete shut down of any and all Papa John’s stores no matter who owns them! The entire company should be shut down and everyone remotely connected to it left unemployed. That will teach him! Feel better?

?

Show me where in this thread I called for a shut down of any and all Papa Johns no matter who owns them.

 

[bcla]

Ok the CEO is a racist. Let’s call for a complete shut down of any and all Papa John’s stores no matter who owns them! The entire company should be shut down and everyone remotely connected to it left unemployed. That will teach him! Feel better?

Come on. No one is deflecting anything. The man is a racist. It may or may not hurt the company. If it does it’s a shame for anyone it hurts who is NOT a racist.

It’s just part of a discussion. Would you prefer a 3 page thread of every single post saying “he is a racist” and agreeing he should have been canned?

This is just a case study on a massively bad PR move. For some time there are going to be potential customers avoiding Papa John's around the country (maybe the world) because they feel icky about the brand because of its association with John Schnatter. That's the same as avoiding Subway because of its now ended relationship with Jared Fogle. Maybe it's a shame for all the franchise owners and many of the employees, but in the end it's the free will of potential customers to not patronize a business for a particularly personal reason.

I won't get too political, but there's always those extremely polarizing cases where one business gets boycotted, but an opposition group (or maybe just individuals) organizes to bring business to that company in support of the stand that an owner or exec took. I can think of several examples. However, I can't really imagine anyone deciding that Papa John's needs support in order to counter people upset about John Schnatter's language and use of horrifying historical examples.

 

[soccerdad72]

That's the same as avoiding Subway because of its now ended relationship with Jared Fogle.

No, it's not. One is the founder of the company, the other is merely a paid spokesperson. Big difference, IMO.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Show me where in this thread I called for a shut down of any and all Papa Johns no matter who owns them.

Of course you didn't. Posters love to twist things into the extreme. Yesterday I said we shouldn't have to tolerate racism in the workplace as just differing opinions and somehow that got turned into me being a "SJW" who tries to get people fired if i don't agree with them.