Getting canned over racist language

[GreatLakes]

Anyone in a visible position has to be careful what they say at all times, on the clock and off. Some cashier in a supermarket may be able to skirt by with a tweet completely unrelated to their job made off the clock but a CEO, spokesman, public face is "working" 24/7. Think all the vile crap you want, I really don't care one way or the other since you can't police thoughts, but don't be an idiot and actually say it.

Should you be free to say racist things? Of course. If he was arrested for what he said you'd have a "freedom of speech" argument which I would support. Should you face no consequences for what you say? Not in the real world.

Boycotting Papa John's is pretty dumb in my opinion but to each their own. He is a billionaire that is out, the boycott won't make a dent or effect him personally in any meaningful way. It may harm the franchise owner or employee that didn't do anything wrong and actually will notice it but if you want to die on that hill go for it.

If the CEO of a company that makes products I like says something equally dumb I wouldn't personally care or boycott them. If it is a product I like I'm not punishing myself because an idiot that doesn't think is at the helm.

 

[sunshinehighway]

SJW- meaning I'm not out there fighting and protesting all the social wrongs of the world.

For me it just depends, I have a very dear friend who has some religious beliefs that are far different than mine. She has said things that make me cringe. However, she is a good person, she works hard for her family and would do anything for anyone, even those who do not share her religious views. Yes I "tolerate" her because she has never acted on her views. She doesn't treat anyone different because they don't share her religion.
OTOH, her ds (who is my ds's BFF) has been the target of bigotry. We have kids in our neighborhood that would come around to our house when he's over and call him the n-word. That is not something I tolerate, although me telling the kids that they are wrong and to go away just gets me laughed at. I'm not going to march to their house and confront their parents, who I'm sure are the same, or try to get them fired because they are raising little racists. So, in a sense I am tolerating their views, I'm just not tolerating their (kids') actions.

I guess I just don't understand why you even brought up not being a SJW. It sounds like you do not tolerate things you find unacceptable.
My post about the "tolerant of intolerance" nonsense has nothing to do with actively "campaigning" against everything someone disagrees with.
There's a big difference between going out looking for a "fight" and standing up when confronted with something you believe is wrong.
You are not tolerating the views of the parents by not storming over to their houses. If those parents were saying bigoted things to that child in front of you and decided "they have a right to their opinion so I should just accept what they are saying", that would be tolerating their views.

 

[Hikergirl]

I guess I just don't understand why you even brought up not being a SJW. It sounds like you do not tolerate things you find unacceptable.
My post about the "tolerant of intolerance" nonsense has nothing to do with actively "campaigning" against everything someone disagrees with.
There's a big difference between going out looking for a "fight" and standing up when confronted with something you believe is wrong.
You are not tolerating the views of the parents by not storming over to their houses. If those parents were saying bigoted things to that child in front of you and decided "they have a right to their opinion so I should just accept what they are saying", that would be tolerating their views.

My SJW was in response this part of your post
"No, saying racist things, especially at work is not a differing opinion and belief that anyone needs to tolerate."
Since the pp you quoted was speaking generally about accepting others views and not about a specific individual or incident I took your response to him (the above) as meaning "we" as a society, not the individuals in that person's place of employment, should be calling out his bigotry and not tolerating it. As in we should be calling for his termination.

I guess we see tolerating others views (not their behavior) in a different way. For me, I feel everyone is entitled to be how they are, and unless they act on them in an illegal or harmful to others way, then I'm not getting involved. If I'm not involved in trying to right their wrong, or punish them for those views, then I am in fact tolerating those views.
Like my friend's comments that made me cringe, I didn't tell her she was wrong, I didn't tell her we can't be friends because of them, I just let her say it, she is entitled to feel the way she does. While the comment stays in the back of my mind, I've never personally held it against her, I've accepted that that is her view even though I don't agree with it. Now, if she started treating people in a bad way because she held that view it would be different for me.

 

[sunshinehighway]

My SJW was in response this part of your post
"No, saying racist things, especially at work is not a differing opinion and belief that anyone needs to tolerate."
Since the pp you quoted was speaking generally about accepting others views and not about a specific individual or incident I took your response to him (the above) as meaning "we" as a society, not the individuals in that person's place of employment, should be calling out his bigotry and not tolerating it. As in we should be calling for his termination.

I guess we see tolerating others views (not their behavior) in a different way. For me, I feel everyone is entitled to be how they are, and unless they act on them in an illegal or harmful to others way, then I'm not getting involved. If I'm not involved in trying to right their wrong, or punish them for those views, then I am in fact tolerating those views.
Like my friend's comments that made me cringe, I didn't tell her she was wrong, I didn't tell her we can't be friends because of them, I just let her say it, she is entitled to feel the way she does. While the comment stays in the back of my mind, I've never personally held it against her, I've accepted that that is her view even though I don't agree with it. Now, if she started treating people in a bad way because she held that view it would be different for me.

I think you are taking my posts in a much more extreme way than they are meant. It seems like you have taken my comments as a black and white, this or that, for or against attitude about anything I don't like it or agree with. It's really not what I am saying at all.
Comment like the previous poster made about some "being intolerant of differing opinions" have become a way to say you don't like people calling you out on your bigotry. It's a charged statement. What it is saying is "I should be able to say racist, sexist, xenophobic, homophobic, (whatever other nasty things) and not have consequences. My comments about not tolerating bigotry were coming from that, a response to what was behind the sentiments in that post.
Perhaps it is that we define tolerating views differently but I think it's more about what we view as harmful and where we draw out lines on what to tolerate

 

[Hikergirl]

I think you are taking my posts in a much more extreme way than they are meant. It seems like you have taken my comments as a black and white, this or that, for or against attitude about anything I don't like it or agree with. It's really what I am saying at all.
Comment like the previous poster made about some "being intolerant of differing opinions" have become a way to say you don't like people calling you out on your bigotry. It's a charged statement. What it is saying is "I should be able to say racist, sexist, xenophobic, homophobic, (whatever other nasty things) and not have consequences. My comments about not tolerating bigotry were coming from that, a response to what was behind the sentiments in that post.
Perhaps it is that we define tolerating views differently but I think it's more about what we view as harmful and where we draw out lines on what to tolerate

To be honest I'm not even sure what we are talking about anymore, not sure if it is what the pp said, you said or I said LOL.
I've enjoyed the discussion though, t has given me some food for thought

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

I guess I just don't understand why you even brought up not being a SJW. It sounds like you do not tolerate things you find unacceptable.
My post about the "tolerant of intolerance" nonsense has nothing to do with actively "campaigning" against everything someone disagrees with.
There's a big difference between going out looking for a "fight" and standing up when confronted with something you believe is wrong.
You are not tolerating the views of the parents by not storming over to their houses. If those parents were saying bigoted things to that child in front of you and decided "they have a right to their opinion so I should just accept what they are saying", that would be tolerating their views.

Social Justice Warrior is something that people that wish to turn a blind eye to things or approve of he injustice call people that don't to blow them off.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

I don't understand this. The punishment wouldn't be universally applied, because each entity can decide it's own punishment.

Some people will always have a need to think things are applied unfairly toward them. The media is against them. Corporate America is against them. The refs are against them. The dance judges are against them. The world is against them.

 

[Hisgirl]

Personally, I would like to stop hearing the word.....every time I hear rap music. If it's wrong it's wrong. Set an example, and stop saying the word. It's an ugly word. Can we just stop saying it no matter what color we are? That's my two cents.

 

[maxiesmom]

His actions caused us to stop ordering Papa John’s pizza.

I stopped ordering from him not only because I have better pizza closer to home, but because he said if there was any kind of universal health care he would just raise his prices and pass the cost along to his consumers. Because when your company rakes in over a billion dollars a year you can't afford health care for your employees.

 

[sam_gordon]

I stopped ordering from him not only because I have better pizza closer to home, but because he said if there was any kind of universal health care he would just raise his prices and pass the cost along to his consumers. Because when your company rakes in over a billion dollars a year you can't afford health care for your employees.

So you boycotted because he was honest? I don't think any company wouldn't try to raise their rates when their costs increase.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

So you boycotted because he was honest? I don't think any company wouldn't try to raise their rates when their costs increase.

Making a big deal out of 3 cents per pizza like he did is not entirely honest.

 

[sjrec]

It’s hard to feel sorry for a CEO who says something like this in a meeting.

Some gal who says something in the heat of the moment in traffic, off the clock? Not sure the punishment fits the crime.

For a retired librarian I have used some pretty colorful phrases (in my head or the privacy of my car) over the years, but I have never used racial or ethnic slurs. Someone who uses those kinds of insults under stress is probably thinking them under other circumstances.

 

[bcla]

For a retired librarian I have used some pretty colorful phrases (in my head or the privacy of my car) over the years, but I have never used racial or ethnic slurs. Someone who uses those kinds of insults under stress is probably thinking them under other circumstances.

I can certainly think these words in my head with regards to the context of how they're used, but I would certainly have a reflex where I would be physically incapable of mouthing that particular word.

 

[sjrec]

I can certainly think these words in my head with regards to the context of how they're used, but I would certainly have a reflex where I would be physically incapable of mouthing that particular word.

Even in my head I have never used racial or ethnic slurs!

 

[Gumbo4x4]

For a retired librarian I have used some pretty colorful phrases (in my head or the privacy of my car) over the years, but I have never used racial or ethnic slurs. Someone who uses those kinds of insults under stress is probably thinking them under other circumstances.

Never said otherwise. Obviously, if you’re saying the words, you’re thinking them.

 

[bcla]

Even in my head I have never used racial or ethnic slurs!

I wasn't specifically thinking it in anger or where I would be saying it. But I've seen/heard the word and I would be thinking it in the context of someone else saying it. I can picture the room with John Schnatter and him saying it.

My mouth is hardly squeaky clean, but that's the one word that I think I would be incapable of uttering - even in private.

Still - in this day and age I'm not sure who wouldn't know it can't be used in public. I noted that a woman with an ostensibly cushy job as an investment advisor lost it because she yelled racial epithets right at someone with a camera phone. She should have been smart enough to know that she was going to be identified.

I found an article on it that doesn't use the full word or the other language. Not sure why a St Louis news website would have it, but it's cleanest version I can find. It's basically the same article without the embedded Twitter post.

http://www.kmov.com/story/38632707/woman-fired-after-freeway-racist-rant-caught-on-camera

 

[Colleen27]

Given that bigots and fascists seem more loud-and-proud these days than in decades, one wonders why "Papa" John didn't try to brass it out, or even explicitly appeal to fellow bigots. It worked for a certain fast food franchise. The only difference is that "Papa" John said the quiet parts loud.

If you and I are thinking about the same fast food franchise, they engage in a much more acceptable form of bigotry, socially speaking. Racism is almost universally viewed as bad, but discrimination against homosexuals still enjoys a certain veil of acceptability among those who view it as condemning a chosen behaviour rather than an inescapable inborn trait.

I don’t think you are wrong at all but this guy is a self made billionaire (per the article), it isn’t going to effect him. I think the point the pp was making is that it is much more likely to hurt the local store employees than someone who has already made his billions. The company could shut down today and his lifestyle wouldn’t flinch.

At this point, that's probably true. It is a lot easier to hold on to money than to earn it in the first place. But that doesn't make me feel any better about contributing to it, any more than I'd contribute to keeping any other business I didn't agree with or appreciate alive for the sake of the employees/franchise owner. I've stopped patronizing fast food places for far weaker reasons - menu changes, price increases, etc. - and I don't feel bad about the fallout on those who work there (who generally had no say in any of the reasons I stopped going). Why should ethics be less of a reason to shop or not shop in a particular place than anything else? After all, there's no shortage of pizza places around - even my town of <5000 people has 4 chain and 2 independent pizza places.

 

[bcla]

If you and I are thinking about the same fast food franchise, they engage in a much more acceptable form of bigotry, socially speaking. Racism is almost universally viewed as bad, but discrimination against homosexuals still enjoys a certain veil of acceptability among those who view it as condemning a chosen behaviour rather than an inescapable inborn trait.

The CEO has since backed off. However, with a lot of these controversies, you'll get those who agree coming out in droves hoping to make up for those who don't agree who are staying away. It can be temporary though, but where those staying away having long memories and those in support losing interest.

 

[UncleMike101]

I think you are taking my posts in a much more extreme way than they are meant. It seems like you have taken my comments as a black and white, this or that, for or against attitude about anything I don't like it or agree with. It's really what I am saying at all.
Comment like the previous poster made about some "being intolerant of differing opinions" have become a way to say you don't like people calling you out on your bigotry. It's a charged statement. What it is saying is "I should be able to say racist, sexist, xenophobic, homophobic, (whatever other nasty things) and not have consequences. My comments about not tolerating bigotry were coming from that, a response to what was behind the sentiments in that post.
Perhaps it is that we define tolerating views differently but I think it's more about what we view as harmful and where we draw out lines on what to tolerate

You are as wrong as anyone can possibly be.
My personal Family diversity is both broad and far reaching and I hold no animosity toward anyone except criminals, whom I have a long running dislike for since I've invested most of my life trying to bring them to justice.
My Wife, Children, and Grandchildren are card carrying Native Americans.
My Daughter is married to a wonderful Puerto Rican man and their two Puerto Rican children, my grandchildren, are the loves of my life.
We have a Foster Daughter who is gay and I love her as though she were my own flesh and blood.
So I'll kindly ask you to keep your fanciful, imaginary, interpretation of my post to yourself.

 

[larissawbb]

I am confused as to how that was a veiled political comment?

I support the right for anyone to say whatever they want with few restrictions (fire in a movie theater), but actions have consequences -

Heck in this day and age we still have people who want BOOKS to be banned - Because of language used.

“Every record has been destroyed or falsified , every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed , every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”
George Orwell, 1984