Funny debate thread on the CB

[damo]

This summer, swear to God, we were at a roller hockey tournament in Detroit and these girls from Alabama(who were in a baseball tournament and staying in the same hotel) asked my 15 year old son if he really kills baby seals!!!

That same tournament, we were having a picnic at a park and the kids were drinking Canada Dry ginger ale and hanging around. Some adults came up to them and told them they shouldn't be drinking beer.

Then in August, we were in California, and were told by a waitress that we certainly didn't look like Canadians!!!

 

[MECH8T7]

hanging out at "that" thread on the CB...but at least it wasn't to participate in this hilarious one...(apologies to those who have already seen it -- it's been going for a while)

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=629617&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

 

[DIZNYFAN]

damo that is to funny so what are we supposed to look like then I mean really some people need to get their heads out of their rears and join reality LOL. I have posted on the pencil lead thread as I have some in my left hand from grade 3.

 

[arminnie]

Originally posted by MECH8T7
Aren't you guys kind of suprised that, other than phorsenuf, none of them have posted on our parallel thread?

Yes, I am one of "them", and I am posting on your thread. And I know where Canada is. I grew up in Detroit in the olden days when the two dollars were virtually even. (which tells you that I am very old).

I posted several times on that other thread - quoted facts, figures, and gave links to the programs offered in California where I worked.

I find it quite insulting to be the object of ridicule on this thread just because I am a U.S. American who posted on that thread. Most of you (not all but the vast majority) have have left no question about how stupid you think U.S. Americans are. I don't see how your assessment of our intelligence is any less bigoted than those who assume that Canadians kill baby seals for fun at lunch time.

Anybody know where you can get some similies of happy faces getting their head blown up with a shotgun?

Nice to know that's what you think of us.

Duh - our two countries are QUITE different. Maybe you are having trouble accepting that we are different from you. Why would you assume that we should do everything alike - how is your disapproval of our policies any different than the US posters who don't agree with what you do? What, I got from this thread was a strong sense of superiority on the part of many of the Canadians who posted.

As for the maternity leave thing - the state where I lived and worked (California) has recently added paid family leave. Yes, it's shorter than the Canadian version, but I understand from other posts that Canada did not start out with one year of maternity benefits. California didn't just make it for maternity - it also covers taking care of parents, and when adopting or accepting a foster child (who might not be an infant).

Many of you are younger and may not have had to face the elder care issues yet. Does Canada offer paid leave for that? Perhaps it does and you just didn't mention it because the focus was on maternity leave.

As someone who has watched many, many children grow up, I honestly don't think there is that strong of a correlation between the mother being home the first year and the child's outcome. I've seen totally wretched human beings come from a home where the mother was always home. and I've seen wonderful young adults come out of a single parent home where the mother had to work two jobs.

That statement doesn't mean that I disapprove of mother's staying home with her child. Life is incredibly easier for a new mother if she can take time off to raise her children.

I believe someone on this thread mentioned population replacement concerns. Making life easier for a parent (maternity leave, personal leave, child care, etc) is an excellent way of providing an environment where people decide that they do want to bring children into the world.

Population replacement is really not a concern in the U.S. unless one is some kind of bigot that worries about the racial demographics changing. The U. S. does not currently have to face some of the population demographic problems that other countries do. We are still growing - a lot.

And Canada's social policies must not be that perfect - that poor young woman Totalia (in Canada) posted several times about the poverty she experienced and how she had gone a week without eating because of no food as a child. Providing food for children should be a top priority for any country.

 

[damo]

Thanks for taking the time to give us your two cents. Every country has the right to think that their country is the best. Canadians are not known to be flag wavers but we will never sit back and be ridiculed because other countries think our programs are "substandard" - to quote an american on the first page of your national health care thread.

Sorry if you feel that our allegiance is offensive but when you are continually reminded that your opinion doesn't matter and that nobody cares what Canada thinks, by many Americans on the boards, I am very proud that we stood up for ourselves.

 

[DisFan2]

arminnie, you beat me to the punch.

As the Canadian born son of American landed immigrants, I cannot tell you how many times I've witnessed my parents silently endure the barbs and insults directed at Americans by Canadians - granted, these people didn't know my parents were American when they made their comments, but I suppose that, in a sense, it makes it that much more offensive. Anti-Americanism in Canada used to find its expression in very subtle ways, and rarely at that. Canadians viewed Americans as friends, people like us. But, in my opinion, over the last ten years, we have seen a complete shift. The new Canadian perspective manifests itself in arrogant "I am Canadian" beer commercials and in the insulting comments from Canadian politicians like Carolyn Parrish - the fact that these comments ("Coalition of idiots", "I hate those American b*stards", and spokeswoman for former PM Chretien, Francoise Ducros' "Bush is a moron") have not been repudiated in any meaningful way is a sad reflection of how far we have fallen.

The real irony, which you've picked up on, is that Canadians have become what they used to find so objectionable in our American "friends".

I will qualify all of the above by saying that my criticism is not of all Canadians. I will also say that some of the criticism levelled at the US is valid - but to generalize about all of the US in part based upon attitudes and statements espoused on a message board is ridiculous.

 

[maryliz]

I certainly don't want to start a discussion here about the fine examples of politicians that both of our countries can be proud of And yes, the public comments made by such are a complete disgrace to all individuals of a country because unfortunately it often gives others the impression that "everyone is that way". But please don't start quoting every not-so-bright politician that has made rude comments. Approximately 3 years ago, I sat and watched an address to the world by President Bush. I watched him sing praises of other countries, without ONE mention of Canada. But then why should he have ... after all, WE didn't lose anyone in those dreadful attacks, and WE didn't provide shelter for passengers on flights that were basically grounded here, and WE didn't send financial aid through our Red Cross ... oh wait, Yes we did, to all of the above. I found that so incredibly offensive because it wasn't just some "idiot" saying something completely inappropriate -- instead it was a complete oversight of what are physically the US's closest neighbours. It was like the difference between insulting a family member, and insulting a perfect stranger ... neither is acceptable but it sure hurts the family member more.

I think Damo said it best ... yes, we were getting defensive over here because over "there" it felt like we were being portrayed as just a bunch of lazy Mom's who were EXPECTING the rest of the world to pay for us. It's not like that, just like it's not a reality that all US Mom's who go back to work after 6 weeks are terrible Mom's who don't care about the well-being of their family. The 2 countries are just "different" in their thinking on maternity leaves, paid or not.


Mary-Liz

 

[Amberle3]

I've only read through the materity leave thread. From what I can tell most of the frustration/animosity on the thread is not because the US has a different system, but because many of the US posters just can't understand the Canadian system.

Winnipeg is just over an hour away from the border. My fiance is American. Yes, I hear a lot of America bashing. As far as I can figure it stems from 3 sources:
- The US is, no doubt about it, a super-power. We're not. We get put down and ridiculed a lot from the US side because we're a smaller, weaker country both in terms of our economy and our military. I think it's built up to a point where many Canadians are just tired of it and are striking back.
- Backlash from the whole war thing. No, Canada wasn't involved in the invasion. Instead we sent troops to Afghanistan so that the US could pull some of their troops out from there and reassign them. We also had many Canadian soldiers that were assigned to US troops. So while we weren't "officially" there, we were lending a hand. In the meantime, it got to the point where I was afraid to wear a maple leaf in the US. Americans were NOT friendly toward us, and I could tell several tales of people I personally know who went across the border and were either accosted, assaulted, or had their cars vandalized because they were Canadian. As ML said, we were portrayed as though we had deserted the US. I saw a few news features that made a point of saying that Canada had no involvement whatsoever in the coalition etc, when that really was not the case. It would have been ever so much more helpful if they had pointed out the ways we were involved, but that didn't happen. Instead we had Bush telling the world that the US's closest ally was the UK.
- We have a love/hate relationship with the US, the same as many siblings do. We're so alike, and yet so different. We're constantly compared to them. And like it or not we're pretty much irrevocably tied to them through our proximity and our economy. We depend on them. And no, we don't like that much. It's like a younger sibling rebelling against an older one.

What I find interesting is that, slowly but surely, we're managing to carve some kind of national identity out of this - and it's not just "we're not American". We're starting to form a realization of who we are and what makes us different from our neighbours. For years it's been difficult to say what was unique about Canadians. For a long time if you asked a Canadian "what they were" they'd tell you their ethnic background (Italian, Ukrainian, etc). Now you're more likely to be told "Canadian". We're establishing a kind of national pride.

So please, for the Americans out there, bear with us as we go through these growing pains. It'll calm down eventually. Sooner or later both sides will stop with the name calling and we'll resume our nice, peaceful coexistance. At least I sure hope it does.

 

[DisFan2]

I was also disappointed that Canada wasn't recognized in Bush's speech to Congress immediately following September 11 - but I guess I wasn't entirely surprised. It confirmed what I had hoped was not happening; Americans were not oblivious to our changing attitudes toward them. I've quoted this editiorial before, but I think it is on point. It appeared in the National Post in September 2001:

"But Canadians should ask themselves why it is that Britain, an ocean away, is declared such a true friend to the United States in its hour of need. Why is it that U.S. presidents do not automatically think first of Canada despite our advantageous position sharing a continent, being each other's biggest trading partner, speaking the same language, and (in theory) sharing the same ideals.

The answer to these questions lies in 30 years of shabby Canadian foreign and defence policy. At the end of the 1960s, Canadian scholars became obsessed with the close links between Canadian and American foreign policy. In the nationalist mood of the times, any agreement between Canadian and U.S. foreign policy was deemed an affront to our identity. Canada needed an "independent" foreign policy, said academics, whether or not principle was sacrificed to achieve it. The United States did not get along well with Communist dictators such as Fidel Castro, so Ottawa, particularly under Pierre Trudeau, went out of its way to get cozy with the tyrant. The United States was viewed as a military hawk, so Canada had to be the dove. This attitude continues into the present. Our pitiful military is one sign. Another is Canada's decision to stay at the United Nations' ludicrous recent anti-racist conference in Durban, South Africa -- thereby lending gravitas to the loathsome anti-Semitism on display there -- when the United States rightly walked out.

When a U.S. president speaks of his country's friends around the world, Canada cannot expect to be singled out unless it does something to make itself stand out. And Liberal governments have for a generation made sure this country does not stand out as too close a friend of the superpower that is our neighbour. Americans, including Mr. Bush, have expressed their gratitude to those Canadians who opened their homes and their hearts to stranded U.S. travelers diverted or grounded here on Sept. 11. But a country cannot, in conscience, nurture a culture of petty xenophobic disdain toward its neighbour and then pretend it has been mistreated when the neighbour is not carefully effusive in its thanks."

 

[DIZNYFAN]

IMHO Canada's biggest mistake was to ground and dismantle the Avro Arrow project at the request of the then US president. That was our step off the down side of a very slippery slope we have not been able to recover from. IMHO it showed us as a pushover and meek in the eyes of the US govt.