FP+ is Live! Magic Bands in the park!

[magicbob]

MagicBob

My thinking is really in line with your thinking. I want to address your concern about EMH and whether FP+ perk will be percieved or of actual value.

I say both. To begin with, it will be of percieved value to the uneducated masses: Hey, HM fast pass at 9:30 am! Cool!

However, when everyone gets 'online' (well, if everyone gets online) then that 9:30am fast pass will be of huge value.

This is going to be both carrot and stick. Nasty standby lines from early in the morning til late at night, at least what we would consider nasty, which Im going to say 20 minutes or more.

So eventually, I think we will all covet our fast passes. That is my speculation on this matter.

Your scenario is precisely what many of us are concerned about. We will covet those FP+s because they will be rare and without them we will be waiting a lot more than in the past.

For years, we have been able to FP a lot more than three rides. And many rides were only 10-15 minutes even without FP. If FP+ means that we can ONLY get three FPs in a day (meaning we will have to wait in standby lines a lot more than usual) AND those standby lines are LONGER than in the past to boot (since all of the guests who reserved FP+ for these rides that didn't used to be FP will cause standby to be longer), then I don't see how anyone's experience is going to improve.

 

[Rileygirl]

PrincessArlenasDad

You are right! I do argue both seemingly opposing views! You caught me.

But I think this is the real brilliance of this whole scheme. Both offsite and onsite people will either THINK they are winners, or will react in the way that the Disney Bean counters have figured. On site people will have some advantage, and we will discuss how big later on. regarding off site, here are some thoughts.

First off-
Disney has to make the FP+ a coveted thing. Carrot and stick baby.When it is seen as necessary to have, in order to have a good disney vacation, 3 things will happen to the offsite guest.

1)Off Site Guests may choose to stay onsite if it means more or better FP+'s, sorta the way EMH was used to lure off site people onsite.
2)Offsite guests that have chosen to still stay off site will 'want' to prepurchase their theme park ticket at least 60 days in advance so they can closely compete with onsite guests for FP priviledges. (Something EMH did not provide, a competition to drive up the commodity) Once Disney has locked them into purchasing the tickets, they have locked them into visiting Disney for those number of days, ESPECIALLY if the non-expiring option goes capute. Also, disney gets their money 60 days in advance, nice interest.
3)Once Fast pass options are booked, its even less likely that off site guests will visit or do other things in Orlando, regardless of weather concerns, or whatever.

Will this lure more offsite guests to purchase Disney tickets? I dont know, and I dont think this really matters. I think what the bean counters are figuring on: it will force the off site guest that was planning to spend some days at the bif D do three things - contemplate staying on site, contemplate purchasing 60 days in advance, and then lock them into their plans 60 days before arrival. BRILLIANT FRIGGIN BEANCOUNTERS

 

[Rileygirl]

Hmm, MagicBob and White Rose

I agree with both statements. First off, my speculation is not good for the disney VET under this new system. It wont be as good in some aspects as what it has been, especially long term and if they get 80% or so on board. Long standby lines on the b attractions throughout the day is my biggest concern, and I have talked about it lots in other threads.

However, it will vastly improve the experience for the 70% (just random number guessing here) or regular disney vacation goers. It will be easy, it will be far more fun then they are having now, and it will be an overall positive experience for the vast majority. This is the customer satisfaction area.

Maybe not happy for us though. Or maybe we will figure out loop holes, or exceptions or whatever that we can still maximize our time, just do it differently then what we are doing now. Also, there is other aspects of this system that make be a positive impact on our disney vacation, that negates or equalizes the extra line waiting. How this system really effects us tomorrow or next trip, well, we wont know until we see it operate live.

Regarding long and short term Business. Disney is a lonnnnnnngggg term planner. This project has been in the works for at least a decade. Things have been changing at disney in the last 6 years to accommodate these changes, things like wifi in the parks, online dining ressies, ect.... they have a master plan. Yes, they want to see short term profits, and guess what? they have already started getting them. those RFID hotel key cards are the casino chips Disney has been salivating after. What would make them even happier? Casino chips for the off site people.

al

 

[magicbob]

However, it will vastly improve the experience for the 70% (just random number guessing here) or regular disney vacation goers. It will be easy, it will be far more fun then they are having now, and it will be an overall positive experience for the vast majority. This is the customer satisfaction area.

I'm not sure that it actually WILL improve the experience for that 70%. The longer standby lines will affect them just as they do the veteran guest. They may not have a frame of reference to know that things USED to be better (assuming that is the case). But it's still a gamble whether the average guest's PERCEPTION is that those three FP+s made their visit so much better. One of the biggest complaints that ANY guest has is long lines. If lines get even longer, won't that likely mean all guests will be unhappy? Will those three FP+s outweigh the negative experience of waiting in long lines, even for rides that are not as impressive as the headliners?

 

[Rileygirl]

edited to delete

 

[Rileygirl]

ok, I will stop my random comments, because a lot of points being made by you magic bob really play into the whole emh gig, and the relativity of long lines as percieved by us, and as percieved by the average joe user.

My fingers are tired though, so I will take a break, and try and get something comprehensive together tonight, so you can see why I think that the 70 will indeed be happier, and the 10 (thats us) will not be happier. And why, Disney will overall be happier.

 

[doggydoc]

Speculating a little more wildly than usual here, but it seems that there would have to be an arbitrary time (e.g., 30 minutes prior to your FP+ reservation time) by which your ticket would have to be registered at the turnstile or else you lose your FP+. Then they can send out texts announcing that FP+s have just opened up for [insert attraction] and the first people to snag them with their smartphones can then take advantage of them.

Trying to manipulate FP's on an individual basis like that would be a nightmare I don't see how they could manage it. Do you get randomly selected for an opportunity for the canceled FP? How long do they wait for you to respond? If they send it out to a large group of people that only increases chances of frustrating guests. The only thing worse than not getting a FP is ALMOST getting a FP.

I'm not sure that it actually WILL improve the experience for that 70%. The longer standby lines will affect them just as they do the veteran guest. They may not have a frame of reference to know that things USED to be better (assuming that is the case). But it's still a gamble whether the average guest's PERCEPTION is that those three FP+s made their visit so much better. One of the biggest complaints that ANY guest has is long lines. If lines get even longer, won't that likely mean all guests will be unhappy? Will those three FP+s outweigh the negative experience of waiting in long lines, even for rides that are not as impressive as the headliners?

Exactly. I think we have to remember that except for a few days out of the year there are only a couple rides that you can't get FP's for even if you arrive late. TSMM, Soarin', maybe SM. I really hope Disney was not myopic enough to make such drastic changes to the FP system just to quell dissent over those few rides.

The questions you raise are exactly what keeps me hopeful that there is some form of same day FP system, although I just can't imagine how given what we know. How are 3 measly FP's per day (at 1 park!) going to make even a newby feel like they waited in line less? Especially if there is tiering. Except for the rides I listed above there is usually FP's available if the guest could figure out how to use FP. And no one has yet to convince me that FP+ is going to be easier for people to use. If the idea is to get people out of line and into shops and restaurants this doesn't seem like the way to do it.

There has got to be something more. They have already tested prescheduling and it worked. Why not roll it out the same way the test went with dual FP/+? Why the secrecy? Seems like more than just a wifi issue otherwise they could find a way to throttle access (for instance only have local access, no internet, FB, youtube, etc. only access to Disney servers for using for rezzies and FP's). I know people say we are a minority and that this is a non-issue for most but these days we are always 1 viral post or video rant away from a PR nightmare.

 

[Squidgyness]

I still have a hunch there will be a same day system for fastpasses, even if its only the scraps left over from pre booking. It would help a lot with controlling crowds, plus they said they would change fp numbers based on the day and crowds - if they realised more people were going to mk than they expected for example they could release some same day passes held in reserve or create new slots to be filled on the day to relieve the pressure. Flexibility to do this would help control lines a lot better. Call it a gut feeling, or a hope, but that's what I believe.

And my head is hurting so I'm taking a break lol. Planning rides is not fun for me, nor is worrying about planning rides. So many permutations to think through, so many possible results good and bad. I worry if I keep updating my family on this they might not want to go back... Definitely time to try and gain some perspective.

 

[disneymagicgirl]

This is going to be both carrot and stick. Nasty standby lines from early in the morning til late at night, at least what we would consider nasty, which Im going to say 20 minutes or more.

So eventually, I think we will all covet our fast passes. That is my speculation on this matter.

Your scenario is precisely what many of us are concerned about. We will covet those FP+s because they will be rare and without them we will be waiting a lot more than in the past.

For years, we have been able to FP a lot more than three rides. And many rides were only 10-15 minutes even without FP. If FP+ means that we can ONLY get three FPs in a day (meaning we will have to wait in standby lines a lot more than usual) AND those standby lines are LONGER than in the past to boot (since all of the guests who reserved FP+ for these rides that didn't used to be FP will cause standby to be longer), then I don't see how anyone's experience is going to improve.

This is my concern as well. I feel like we started hearing about them transitioning us over to a new expectation a few mths ago when people were reporting that only a handful (5 or so) stand by people went thru to a large amount (25 or so) fastpassers. I noticed on our recent trip that SB lines were much longer than I expected for this time of year.

I know that as much as I love Disney, we won't be going back yearly to wait in line more. I have a hard time convincing DH to go as it is. He thinks a 10 minute wait is long. Unless it plays out where we get more than 3 FP+, I can't see how we wouldn't be standing in longer lines for all but those 3 rides. That won't work for my family. I hope there is more to the story here.

 

[White Rose]

One thing to add..Disney also wants to find ways to maybe offsite people change and become onsite people...this way they get their park admission plus the hotel stays, and most likely more of their food bill will be paid to Disney.

I could see there being an advantage added with the new system to give an additional perk to onsite guests. Not saying a mod would get more than a value, just in general onsite would get more then offsite when it comes to FP+. I would think that would be a no-brainer...maybe allow park hopping reservations or allow additional FP for onsite. We won't know till the system is live, and also it might not be something that is activated right away...maybe in stages...

This is an example:

When FP+ becomes live, all guests get X number per day...

During slow seasons or times when there is a greater % of offsite guests expected...make it a promotion....stay onsite between certain dates and we will double your number of FP+ reservations! For some people, that could convince them to go onsite if there is a perceived value. What do you think?

Or maybe after it's been operational for awhile and the wrinkles seem to be ironed out, increase the amount of FP+ available to onsite guests, and advertise it as a bonus reason for staying onsite.

This new tech should be flexible enough to be able to handle that.

 

[bcrook]

I still have a hunch there will be a same day system for fastpasses, even if its only the scraps left over from pre booking. It would help a lot with controlling crowds, plus they said they would change fp numbers based on the day and crowds - if they realised more people were going to mk than they expected for example they could release some same day passes held in reserve or create new slots to be filled on the day to relieve the pressure. Flexibility to do this would help control lines a lot better. Call it a gut feeling, or a hope, but that's what I believe.

And my head is hurting so I'm taking a break lol. Planning rides is not fun for me, nor is worrying about planning rides. So many permutations to think through, so many possible results good and bad. I worry if I keep updating my family on this they might not want to go back... Definitely time to try and gain some perspective.

I go with large groups and most of the people in the groups rely on me for information. I haven't shared any of the FP+ information with any of them. I don't want anybody to freak out! . When they ask me questions, I just say I don't know much, or its going to be great, or sometimes -- that flippin fastpass plus (thanks robo) is driving me nuts - I don't want to talk about.

June trip is clear no worries. October Food and Wine is looking like it won't be affected.

Great posts everybody. Good reads. Rileygirl I haven't processed it all but that is a considerable amount of thoughtfulness.

I agree with Mesaboy I think Pete may have got a wire crossed on the on site reservation requirement. But there are quite a few thoughtful people who have expressed the same sentiment. If that occurs, that would a shocker.

 

[mesaboy2]

Great posts everybody. Good reads. Rileygirl I haven't processed it all but that is a considerable amount of thoughtfulness.

I agree with Mesaboy I think Pete may have got a wire crossed on the on site reservation requirement. But there are quite a few thoughtful people who have expressed the same sentiment. If that occurs, that would a shocker.

I'll second the props to Rileygirl for the thoughtful and considered logic.

 

[Squidgyness]

One thing to add..Disney also wants to find ways to maybe offsite people change and become onsite people...this way they get their park admission plus the hotel stays, and most likely more of their food bill will be paid to Disney.

I could see there being an advantage added with the new system to give an additional perk to onsite guests. Not saying a mod would get more than a value, just in general onsite would get more then offsite when it comes to FP+. I would think that would be a no-brainer...maybe allow park hopping reservations or allow additional FP for onsite. We won't know till the system is live, and also it might not be something that is activated right away...maybe in stages...

This is an example:

When FP+ becomes live, all guests get X number per day...

During slow seasons or times when there is a greater % of offsite guests expected...make it a promotion....stay onsite between certain dates and we will double your number of FP+ reservations! For some people, that could convince them to go onsite if there is a perceived value. What do you think?

Or maybe after it's been operational for awhile and the wrinkles seem to be ironed out, increase the amount of FP+ available to onsite guests, and advertise it as a bonus reason for staying onsite.

This new tech should be flexible enough to be able to handle that.

Depends on this formula.

Number of offsite guests who would stay onsite because of more fp = A (where A is the money gained)
Number of offsite guests going but spending less as they wait longer = B (where B is money lost)
Number of offsite guests who are turned off by this choosing to go elsewhere for a day or two or not purchasing tickets full stop = C (where C is money lost from people )

If: A > (B+C), I can see them giving a lot more perks to onsite guests. If not, it wouldn't make economic sense.

There has been nothing, repeat NOTHING official to my knowledge stating that onsite guests get anything more than the band for photo pass, a room key and as additional functions like paying for items, and offsite can purchase a band anyway and take part in the full mymagic+ if they wish. (Search for the Tom staggs blog post officially announcing mymagic+, in it he replies to a comment with this fact.)

I find it unlikely onsite will get more fastpasses, but if they do they will most likely have it as a band feature. Since offsite will have the opportunity to purchase a band if they wish, they could opt in anyway for a fee, which I doubt would be very high if they want people to upgrade and spend more money. (I saw very few offsite people buying universals pass for example, which is limited in number anyway.) Not that much of an enticement in that case, unless like universal they price the band so high or make it so limited in availability no offsite guest will choose to purchase one but rather be forced choose to stay onsite to get one. Again, I find this unlikely if they want to appear better than universal and not send out the wrong image.

In that blog post he mentions customising your vacation using the band. I think this will be the hook for onsite, not more fastpasses. "Not only do you get fastpass+ you get this special service where you can make the vacation your own!" How... I don't really know exactly. I remember personalised greetings, ride endings and other things being mentioned early on in mymagic+. Didn't et at universal do that? No reason they couldn't do it now.

Sounds better than "you get the same as offsite (fastpass+) but more" but more importantly doesn't leave one group waiting in standby longer, so gets both offsite AND onsite spending more in park as opposed to prioritising onsite guests while damaging offsite guests spending. Win win for disney. Perceived value for onsite increasing appeal to stay at disney whilst delivering increased revenue from BOTH camps.

EDIT: Blog article link http://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2013/01/taking-the-disney-guest-experience-to-the-next-level/

 

[magicbob]

During slow seasons or times when there is a greater % of offsite guests expected...make it a promotion....stay onsite between certain dates and we will double your number of FP+ reservations! For some people, that could convince them to go onsite if there is a perceived value. What do you think?

Call me a pessimist, but I'd say that sounds like a way to replace Free Dining promotions and/or room discounts (which have overhead costs associated with them) with giving away something that costs them essentially nothing. Here again, new guests would have no frame of reference, but repeat visitors would view this as a huge LOSS in value as a promotion.

If you get additional FP+ benefits in addition to other promotions, that might be another story, but if FP+ perk is enough to entice the masses, why give them more?

 

[Angel Ariel]

Misconception #5
Disney wont be able to educate the average Disney Vacation goer on Fast Pass.

All they have to do is get them to use their mobile ap, or internet to register for their fast pass.

The only thing I've ever used the website for is scheduling ADRs, and TBH the phone line is much more helpful/useful at times. Their mobile app was so slow in the park it was pretty unusable (whereas Touring Plans or even the old Mobile Magic were much faster). I stay at SoG, so there's no need to do online check-in.

So..I don't need their website for my hotel or tickets (SoG and Armed Forces Salute tx), and I can easily call their phone line to make ADRs. What would draw me to their website to have these FP decisions made so easily for me?

(not just me, but offsite guests in general).

They can make it idiot proof as they can, but they still have to get people to the site/app in the first place.

 

[chasgoose]

Here's the thing... I really don't think FP+ is going to make standby lines longer. The whole point of the system since the dawn of FP has been to minimize time guests spend in lines because then they aren't buying things. They aren't going to invest all this time and money to put a system in place that does a poorer job at achieving that goal than the one they already have. We don't have all the information yet but I'm sure there's more to the system than meets the eye.

 

[Rileygirl]

How do you purchase the armed salute fx passes Angel Ariel? I have to know in order to answer your question.

~A

long post in the works coming up to answer that chasgoose, and the whole emh thing. Or, at least, my answer. Its worth 2 cents, you may be asking for change :>)

 

[monorailrabbit]

The problem is, I could enter the park with just a few minutes before my FP+ expires, and still use it. They shouldn't give it away just because I haven't entered the park before some arbitrary time.

I'm thinking Disney is doing the same old betting that there will be unused FP+s, which will benefit the standby line...

But if they aren't active at what point can Disney "assume" you will not be in the park for your FP+?? My theory is Disney would not be able to give your FP+ away until only a minute or 2 before it expires if you aren't in the park. This would help the SB line but it wouldn't help more people get FP+s for that ride.

Everytime someone figures something out, there is a different path to go down! There just seems to be so many different holes in the plan. I am glad it is people smarter than I trying to figure out this out. To me the current system didn't seem to have so many different things to go wrong.

Speculating a little more wildly than usual here, but it seems that there would have to be an arbitrary time (e.g., 30 minutes prior to your FP+ reservation time) by which your ticket would have to be registered at the turnstile or else you lose your FP+. Then they can send out texts announcing that FP+s have just opened up for [insert attraction] and the first people to snag them with their smartphones can then take advantage of them..

I'm sorry, I don't think I said what I was thinking very well. I didn't mean to ruffle feathers! My thoughts were closer to Magicbob - like if you haven't entered the park by 2 and your FP+ expires at 2:30, it goes back into the pool... but then it was brought up how would people be able to snatch it up, who gets dibbs, etc... tricky tricky!

This is my concern as well. I feel like we started hearing about them transitioning us over to a new expectation a few mths ago when people were reporting that only a handful (5 or so) stand by people went thru to a large amount (25 or so) fastpassers. I noticed on our recent trip that SB lines were much longer than I expected for this time of year.

I know that as much as I love Disney, we won't be going back yearly to wait in line more. I have a hard time convincing DH to go as it is. He thinks a 10 minute wait is long. Unless it plays out where we get more than 3 FP+, I can't see how we wouldn't be standing in longer lines for all but those 3 rides. That won't work for my family. I hope there is more to the story here.

Totally agree with this. I DO hope it ends up being better than it looks!

Another thought... hopefully I explain this one a little better. Some are thinking about using this as a benefit for onsite guests. Don't get me wrong, I always stay onsite and this would be super, but - nothing about current FP- is better for onsite... I guess I'm not sure that things would change for FP+ unless indeed it is intended to replace EMH... boo...

 

[agavegirl1]

Still watching and learning. Thank you! I expect by fall 2014 this will be my new reality. I have little to add. However, today's posts are a sterling example of how to have a speculative discussion on a discussion board.

 

[Rileygirl]

edited to delete