FP+ doesn't make lines longer.

[EMom]

*for the haters: the FP+ Only tests they have done are stupid. I don't agree with them. But those tests are a failure of management, not the FP+ system.

I can't take anyone seriously who uses the word "haters."

 

[ghtx]

I can't take anyone seriously who uses the word "haters."

Even Taylor Swift?

 

[StarCruiser]

Actually FP+ does increase wait times by reducing capacity per hour at certain attractions.

Due to how it works, FP has already been proven in the past to be a bad idea for attractions with large capacity, such as boat rides like Pirates and small world, omnimover rides such as mansion, even journey into imagination with figment is a high enough capacity that we know FP only increases wait times by reducing capacity. This is a proven fact from when regular FP was first introduced and the reason that they pulled it from the Hugh capacity attractions like Mansion.

I find this statement interesting, and counter-intuitive (at least for me). Any chance you can explain it a little more? What is is about FP, vs. SB, that causes lower capacity on these types of rides? Does this apply to TSMM & Buzz as well? Seems like it would from your description.

 

[stinkpickle]

 

[BuzzinDownToDisney]

The good folks of the Dis broke out their thesauruses for this thread.

 

[clsteve]

The goal of reducing wait times is the same goal as the goal of getting people into shops and restaurants to spend more money. They way they get people there is by getting them out of queues.

But you're missing the other part of the equation. Another goal is to keep guests, or certain classes of guests, in the Parks longer in order to spend more.

There's a whole methodology behind the "pre-selections" of FP's that Disney presents.

Some who stay longer will shop longer. But, for some strange reason, many others will ride more rides while they hang around for that 8pm TSMM FP+ ressie.

Only so many Mickey Bars you can eat in a day....

 

[bababear_50]

Therefore, FP+ makes lines longer.

Best laugh in months
Thanks
Hugs Mel

 

[Angel Ariel]

Using the Pirates example...

It was reported earlier this year (I don't know if it's still the case..happy to check in a few weeks when I'm there) that 1 entire side of the Pirates queue was dedicated to FP+ only. Given how Pirates loads, this meant that 1 entire loading area of Pirates was FP+ only, and when there weren't guests there that boats were going through empty/partially full even though there were people in the SB line on the other side of the queue, because they couldn't get people from that queue to the other loading area.

Like I said, I don't know if they've changed the merge point to make this no longer an issue, but it was the issue for a while. So, *in that case*, how could it be said that FP+ wasn't responsible for the increased wait time?

Or for rides that never had a FP before...where SB just continually loaded, and now there's a merge point and SB is held for FP+ people to board (in whatever ratio they use). So, for example, in Journey Into Imagination (which was *always* a walkon when we were there) - say you now have 12 people in line (I think maybe 4-6 can fit in the vehicle), and they are 6 separate parties - 3 parties in FP+, 3 in SB (2 people in each party).

In order of arrival:
Party #1 - SB
Party #2 - SB
Party #3- SB
Party #4-FP+
Party #5- FP+
Party#6- FP+

Previously, under no FP, they would have boarded in order 1-6, so SB party #1 would board immediately.

Now they are giving priority to FP+ over SB...so the 3 FP+ parties board first, and then the 3 SB parties.

How can it not be said that the 3 SB parties do not have a longer wait than they would have prior to that attraction having FP+?

(I realize the difference in wait time when talking about such a small number of people is minimal, but when the effect is multiplied the result is as well.)

It's been reported that the ratio to the # of FP+ parties boarding to SB parties boarding greatly increased when FP+ was implemented. I truly can't see how increasing the # of FP+ people who board before 1 SB person boards doesn't increase the SB wait.

 

[Miffy]

I can only speak for myself, but I don't even care if I get less FPs now, that is not the real issue for me. I was never a super-power-user or whatever. If they had decided to promote the old paper FP which led to higher utilization and less FPs for me, I would have been fine with that.

The real issue for me is that each day is not a clean slate anymore. Before, no matter what happened, you could re-plan each day the night before, come up with a new strategy and go for it. This was great especially if you had a bad night's sleep, kids sick, weather, etc. That is what I miss most of all.

So I guess for me, I hate the feeling of being "locked in." It's what I love about visiting Universal onsite now, even though I don't enjoy their parks as much as the Disney parks...I love the feeling of being able to wake up and go, plan as much as you want or as little as you want. And you used to be able to do that at WDW. Now you can't.

Well, actually, you're speaking for me too!

 

[cakebaker]

I can't take anyone seriously who uses the word "haters."

I find the phrase "fast past lovers" equally amusing. Seriously, I wish we could just use phrases a little more sensible- proponents of , those who favor- those who don't like- something boring like that.

 

[Griffin226]

I'm not at all convinced that you can just ignore ever increasing attendance at the Parks as a reason why lines seem longer. If attendance is up dramatically over the last three years, as it appears to be, lines are going to be longer.

FWIW, I think FP+ is a good faith attempt at park management to redistribute crowds around the whole park to allow for increased capacity. There is no doubt that flexibility of planning is now limited, but no more limited if every day becomes an 8 on the crowd level.

 

[Angel Ariel]

But you're missing OP's original point - total capacity (i.e. the number of people riding each day) is not affected by FP. Anyone riding less means someone else is riding more.

Even though I think OP is wrong about waits, I think that point is correct. Why wouldn't it be correct?

Total *potential* capacity doesn't change (as in what the ride can accommodate in a day), but the total *riders* per day can absolutely change. As surferdave pointed out using POC..if boats are being sent through empty because there's no one in the FP+ loading area that, previous to FP+ were always full because the 2 lines loaded at the same rate, then the # of riders/day is lower than when the 2 lines were loading at the same time even though the potential capacity is the same.

 

[CTDisneyfan816]

My first (and so far only) experience with FP+ was this July during the crowded season. I went to Disney 5 days total. Only one of those days did I have FP+ prior to arriving at the park and that was done the night before. And I got to ride on every ride I wanted. If you are flexible and willing to ride single rider lines and don't mind waiting for a few rides (what's the hurry, it's vacation is my thought) you can do what you want to do. One thing I like about FP+ over legacy is that you can have 3 set up to start where the old way only one.

 

[itchin2go]

Eh, I get the theory, but I'm pretty sure FP+ is going to increase wait times for my family.

Reasoning: Our park time is rope drop to early afternoon. So most days, we waited really minimal waits for rides ... like walk-on to 15 minutes at the most. We got FPs for really popular rides that didn't have low wait times, so we waited minimal times for everything we rode, even the mountains in MK. We just wouldn't wait 30 minutes or more for a ride, and the fact is, we never had to because of the combination of rope drop and using fast pass effectively.

For our next trip, we will tour the same, but I think our wait times will definitely increase. Granted, many things will still be "walk on" at rope drop, but I think the lines will build more quickly than they did before because of FP+, and because of the early time slots for FP+. And I don't think the FP+s will even the score for us because we were already using legacy FP effectively.

Now the truth is, I will never know whether this is true, because we've always gone in low crowd times, and this time we're going Thanksgiving week! And also, I hope I'm wrong and that we LOVE FP+! We'll see!

 

[Planogirl]

Many people visited the parks to ride the headliners and many of them waited in line to do so and didn't bother with fastpasses. Now we hear that more people are using fastpasses and those same people line up for other rides while they wait for their FP+ times. In effect they can be in more than one line at a time. Logically that would make lines longer.

 

[flicx]

Using the Pirates example...

It was reported earlier this year (I don't know if it's still the case..happy to check in a few weeks when I'm there) that 1 entire side of the Pirates queue was dedicated to FP+ only. Given how Pirates loads, this meant that 1 entire loading area of Pirates was FP+ only, and when there weren't guests there that boats were going through empty/partially full even though there were people in the SB line on the other side of the queue, because they couldn't get people from that queue to the other loading area.

Like I said, I don't know if they've changed the merge point to make this no longer an issue, but it was the issue for a while. So, *in that case*, how could it be said that FP+ wasn't responsible for the increased wait time?

Or for rides that never had a FP before...where SB just continually loaded, and now there's a merge point and SB is held for FP+ people to board (in whatever ratio they use). So, for example, in Journey Into Imagination (which was *always* a walkon when we were there) - say you now have 12 people in line (I think maybe 4-6 can fit in the vehicle), and they are 6 separate parties - 3 parties in FP+, 3 in SB (2 people in each party).

In order of arrival:
Party #1 - SB
Party #2 - SB
Party #3- SB
Party #4-FP+
Party #5- FP+
Party#6- FP+

Previously, under no FP, they would have boarded in order 1-6, so SB party #1 would board immediately.

Now they are giving priority to FP+ over SB...so the 3 FP+ parties board first, and then the 3 SB parties.

How can it not be said that the 3 SB parties do not have a longer wait than they would have prior to that attraction having FP+?

(I realize the difference in wait time when talking about such a small number of people is minimal, but when the effect is multiplied the result is as well.)

It's been reported that the ratio to the # of FP+ parties boarding to SB parties boarding greatly increased when FP+ was implemented. I truly can't see how increasing the # of FP+ people who board before 1 SB person boards doesn't increase the SB wait.

There is absolutely no denying this. It slows lines down. Especially where legacy fast pass wasn't even implemented before.

 

[Laketravis]

But you're missing OP's original point - total capacity (i.e. the number of people riding each day) is not affected by FP. Anyone riding less means someone else is riding more.

Even though I think OP is wrong about waits, I think that point is correct. Why wouldn't it be correct?

No, I think you are missing my point - the OP posted "..spending less time in queues" and I countered "or riding less" because one undisputed effect is that people are now spending less time in the parks after using their 3 FP's.

 

[wisblue]

No, I think you are missing my point - the OP posted "..spending less time in queues" and I countered "or riding less" because one undisputed effect is that people are now spending less time in the parks after using their 3 FP's.

That's an "undisputed effect"? Maybe if you said "at least some people" it would be undisputed, but it certainly isn't true for everyone.

If I made an absolute statement like that I can think of at least 2 or 3 of your fellow club members who would jump all over it.

 

[Laketravis]

That's an "undisputed effect"? Maybe if you said "at least some people" it would be undisputed, but it certainly isn't true for everyone.

If I made an absolute statement like that I can think of at least 2 or 3 of your fellow club members who would jump all over it.

Wis, I didn't say HOW MANY. Geez.....

Maybe this will make you feel better - I found myself leaving the parks earlier than I normally would have after using our 3 FP's.

Dispute that effect.

 

[IamGroot]

Wis, I didn't say HOW MANY. Geez.....

Maybe this will make you feel better - I found myself leaving the parks earlier than I normally would have after using our 3 FP's.

Dispute that effect.

BREAKING NEWS! FP+ REDUCES EVENING CROWDS, REDUCING WAIT TIMES!! AMERICA REJOICES